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sign my petition to EA to open-source Renegade
please visit this website and sign up. It is a petition to persuade EA to make Renegade open source. If you would like more info please reply to this thread, and ill sure pick it up. P.S. Theres no harm in siging the petition, even if you think it won't work.... You don't even have to use proper info, if you want. Cheers, Comp. Mod edit - I fixed the link.
Comp_uter15776 wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 16:35 please visit and sign up. It is a petition to persuade EA to make Renegade open source. If you would like more info please reply to this thread, and ill sure pick it up. P.S. Theres no harm in siging the petition, even if you think it won't work.... You don't even have to use proper info, if you want. Cheers, Comp. Open sourcing Renegade would actually make things worse, also, you kind of... forgot to link to the website. Edit: I fixed your link for you.
Gen_Blacky wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 17:11 Also it will never happen. Agreed. No online petition works.
Well i used your link button, so obviously your links are screwed And anyway, i have another option alternatively: I get the code and then pass it to the gaming communities, to minimise cheating etc. But, open sourcing it would not make it worse, as communities can upgrade the code, and sort it all out, like removing some bugs etc. A few communities are behind me, including: my own Comp_uter Gaming, Cloud Gaming, St0rm Gaming, Black Widow/LG-Gaming, and im going to post a link to jelly and n00bless, as well as a few others maybe. Oh and i have already contacted EA, about 3 days ago. They replied saying they are considering it, and i have swung them to a more "yes" than a "no". And like i said, even if you don't believe in it, there is no harm in signing it?
The only people I feel who are remotely competent enough to have their hands on an open source Renegade would be the TT development team- not the TESTERS or ANYONE else, really. The reason being: It opens a MAJOR hole for cheaters.
GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 20:16 The only people I feel who are remotely competent enough to have their hands on an open source Renegade would be the TT development team- not the TESTERS or ANYONE else, really. The reason being: It opens a MAJOR hole for cheaters. This.
Not one single person in this community is worthy of receiving the source code for this game. It would be the end of Renegade as we know it. The level of cheats that could be made is such an obvious point that I don't even think I have to mention it. But that's not even the worst of it. Everything in the game would be transformed. People would make something and believe that they have the best idea. Everything would differ from everyone else causing players to have to decide which version of the game they want to play. It would alienate new players and split the existing players and overall just lessen the player count until there are maybe a maximum of 10-15 players total playing this game.. ever. Bad idea.
R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:30 [color=crimson]Not one single person in this community is worthy of receiving the source code for this game. You're wrong.
Comp_uter15776 wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 19:39 Well i used your link button, so obviously your links are screwed And anyway, i have another option alternatively: I get the code and then pass it to the gaming communities, to minimise cheating etc. But, open sourcing it would not make it worse, as communities can upgrade the code, and sort it all out, like removing some bugs etc. A few communities are behind me, including: my own Comp_uter Gaming, Cloud Gaming, St0rm Gaming, Black Widow/LG-Gaming, and im going to post a link to jelly and n00bless, as well as a few others maybe. Oh and i have already contacted EA, about 3 days ago. They replied saying they are considering it, and i have swung them to a more "yes" than a "no". And like i said, even if you don't believe in it, there is no harm in signing it? Lol, if even TT can't get it done, you think you can? Trust me, it's a waste of time. Also, making Renegade completely open source would show cheaters probably about 23429075 more holes which they can exploit. Renegade has more holes than a mafia boss after a proper drive-by. Oh, and you know the TT team has actually the larger communities behind it? Edit: And I forgot about the legal issues with MILES and HAVOC engines. Perhaps even more, but I'm pretty sure Renegade uses these and they're "pretty" expensive.
reborn wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:40 R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:30 [color=crimson]Not one single person in this community is worthy of receiving the source code for this game. You're wrong. How am I wrong? If one person handles the software 'the right way' then it still has the adverse effects that I described. Therefore there is no 'right way' of handling it and therefore there is no one fit to do so. I don't want bug fixes and features and all that crap because all it will do, contrary to common opinion, is lower the player count of the game and effectively kill the game off completely.
I deserve the source code tbh. Then i can sit there, think "wtf?" then never look or use it ever again.
R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 20:46 reborn wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:40 R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:30 [color=crimson]Not one single person in this community is worthy of receiving the source code for this game. You're wrong. How am I wrong? If one person handles the software 'the right way' then it still has the adverse effects that I described. Therefore there is no 'right way' of handling it and therefore there is no one fit to do so. Personally the TT team would be pretty much able to handle it, as with TT we only intend to fix bugs and not to change gameplay.
I would say give TT source code... if it meant that we would wait another 2+ years for this shit...
Comp_uter15776 wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 13:39 And anyway, i have another option alternatively: I get the code and then pass it to the gaming communities, to minimise cheating etc. Because you have the complete trust and confidence of the greater Renegade community... Besides... If it's going to be privately passed around that's not very open-source now is it? Comp_uter15776 wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 13:39 A few communities are behind me, including: my own Comp_uter Gaming, Cloud Gaming, St0rm Gaming, Black Widow/LG-Gaming, and im going to post a link to jelly and n00bless, as well as a few others maybe. Everyone who has the skill, trust and time to improve Renegade is probably already in the TT dev team, I'd assume. Comp_uter15776 wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 13:39 Oh and i have already contacted EA, about 3 days ago. They replied saying they are considering it, and i have swung them to a more "yes" than a "no". lol. This is just management saying "no, but we don't want to hurt your feelings" imo. Comp_uter15776 wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 13:39 And like i said, even if you don't believe in it, there is no harm in signing it? Unless we're against open-sourcing it. R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:30 Everything in the game would be transformed. People would make something and believe that they have the best idea. Everything would differ from everyone else causing players to have to decide which version of the game they want to play. It would alienate new players and split the existing players and overall just lessen the player count until there are maybe a maximum of 10-15 players total playing this game.. ever. Bad idea. You mean like Reborn, APB and the others I can't remember? Not to mention Renegade-X too. Choice is good imo. The vast majority of players never look beyond the stock gameplay anyways. EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:50 Personally the TT team would be pretty much able to handle it, as with TT we only intend to fix bugs and not to change gameplay. I agree with you that the TT team is very much capable, however, imo I think there's too much politics involved. Just look at the huge debates still going on about the pointsfix, the ladder, what files to (dis)allow in reference to what's considered "cheats" vs common modifications (like custom huds or skins), etc.
- Pointfix is optional. - The ladder is a project that was started way before TT, and is not directly related to the technical staff. I'm pretty sure it won't be implemented in 4.0. - What files are allowed is configurable by the server owner so this is not debated.
With some exceptions, the game is fine the way it is. We don't need to change it.
I'd say it would be awesome to see/have the Renegade source. Sadly as others already stated; cheats and cheaters. I won't sign the petition on yes or no as both sides are my choice due to the above. I do wonder what will happen if Quote: They replied saying they are considering it, and i have swung them to a more "yes" than a "no". is really true.. I'm a bit afraid they just wanted to get this over with asap
a000clown wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 17:17 R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:30 Everything in the game would be transformed. People would make something and believe that they have the best idea. Everything would differ from everyone else causing players to have to decide which version of the game they want to play. It would alienate new players and split the existing players and overall just lessen the player count until there are maybe a maximum of 10-15 players total playing this game.. ever. Bad idea. You mean like Reborn, APB and the others I can't remember? Not to mention Renegade-X too. Choice is good imo. The vast majority of players never look beyond the stock gameplay anyways. No, not like them. Those are new ways to play the old game. I just want to play the old game. I spent money on this game and I want to be able to play it the way it is. I don't want to have to download 5 different versions of the same game just so I can play on different servers.
I would be all for the idea if there was a way to permanently stop all cheating first. Renegade already has enough hidden cheaters and banned players at is....it'd be a mods hell hole if Renegade were open-sourced.
As was mentioned before, EA can NOT legally open-source Renegade because of licensing issues with third-party libraries. You do not want it open-sourced also, because it will expose the dozens of holes in the code and it will be the end of Renegade unless the holes can be patched faster than the players leave the game because of all the server crashing and cheating.
Re: sign my petition to EA to open-source Renegade
Here is an old petition that went no where. I signed this one a few years ago. http://www.petitiononline.com/0tu1waj8/petition.html
R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:46 How am I wrong? You said: R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:30 [color=crimson]Not one single person in this community is worthy of receiving the source code for this game. This statement is incorrect, therefore you are wrong.
How bout sign a petition to release he source to john will not some noob hackers.... it would be a playing field for 0x09.
I can tell you right now that open sourcing renegade to just anyone would kill the game dead. The only people who should have the source code are those who would be trustworthy enough to use it for good and not evil. People like Tiberan Technologies. Also, I seriously doubt EA is actually going to consider open sourcing anything given all the 3rd party libraries that Renegade is using (which EA cant release)
i would feel insulted if you went to EA with this is it even possible for them to think less of us?
reborn wrote on Tue, 09 November 2010 04:41 R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:46 How am I wrong? You said: R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:30 [color=crimson]Not one single person in this community is worthy of receiving the source code for this game. This statement is incorrect, therefore you are wrong. But how is it incorrect? There is no right way to handle the source code. If ANYONE gets it, regardless of if their intentions are good or not, the game will die. That is why no one is worthy of handling the source code. Not you, not me, not even TT (rhyme not intended). It's not about trust. The fact that cheaters would become a bigger nuance is the least of the problems that would arise. People would constantly be trying to "improve" the game in ways that they feel the game should be improved. They will make patches to fix some bugs that may or may not actually be bugs. They will add things to the game, remove things from the game. It would be chaotic. As a result, everyone would leave the main community and split into different factions who support different versions of the game. However, since each group would be substantially less than the collective community, matches would be smaller and people would eventually get bored of the game and leave. Thus, Renegade's life will finally come to an end.
R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 09 November 2010 15:43 reborn wrote on Tue, 09 November 2010 04:41 R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:46 How am I wrong? You said: R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:30 [color=crimson]Not one single person in this community is worthy of receiving the source code for this game. This statement is incorrect, therefore you are wrong. But how is it incorrect? There is no right way to handle the source code. If ANYONE gets it, regardless of if their intentions are good or not, the game will die. That is why no one is worthy of handling the source code. Not you, not me, not even TT (rhyme not intended). It's not about trust. The fact that cheaters would become a bigger nuance is the least of the problems that would arise. People would constantly be trying to "improve" the game in ways that they feel the game should be improved. They will make patches to fix some bugs that may or may not actually be bugs. They will add things to the game, remove things from the game. It would be chaotic. As a result, everyone would leave the main community and split into different factions who support different versions of the game. However, since each group would be substantially less than the collective community, matches would be smaller and people would eventually get bored of the game and leave. Thus, Renegade's life will finally come to an end.
If TT had the source code, we would only use it for the benefit of the entire renegade community. TT would NOT remove a thing from Renegade as it is now, nor would we alter the gameplay of renegade in any way. We would add a LOT of things for modders to use (new physics types, new building types, new object types, new options for existing building/object types) but nothing would affect stock renegade. Any new features we add that could impact standard renegade would be added via optional keywords in server.ini or elsewhere (just like we have done with a few new options in 4.0) We have gone to great lengths with scripts 4.0 to make sure we DON'T break standard renegade. Every bug we have fixed is a genuine bug where its clear from the way the old code is written that its not intended to work that way.
I should add that where we HAVE made changes that affect normal renegade, they have all been changes that no-one except bad guys (cheaters etc) would have a reason to disagree with. For example, we fixed a number of places where it is possible to send malformed/bad/malicious packets to renegade and crash the server (or carry out a denial-of-service-attack on the server) We also made code changes to 4.0 to make certain cheats in popular anti-cheating programs no longer work (by changing the way certain code works so that its harder to exploit) Some people may complain about us fixing bugs in ways that change the gameplay. Specifically people may want to complain about us fixing the bug in the damage calculation that made it possible to shoot certain vehicles with certain weapons where little-to-no damage was done but where points were gained that should not have been (i.e. "pointsfix"). During the beta cycle of 4.0 we will take feedback from server owners and add options to disable these features as necessary to gain "buy-in" from the server owner community (I say server owners here because they are the ones that will be deciding whether to enable or disable the various optional features of 4.0 including the file-hash anti-cheat)
The only thing that I think the source code should be used for is preventing cheaters. Nothing more.
Even TT is not trust worthy enough to handle the source code tbh. Even though this group of people have created many wonderful things over the years for renegade like anticheat and bug fixs. How do we know that this group of people wouldn't take advantage of such things. We don't so logically the best answer is for no one to have the source.
TT already has the skills to exploit Renegade if we wanted to. We can reverse engineer any part of the game. (and in fact have reverse engineered large chunks of it for 4.0 to fix bugs, remove hacks, block cheats, add new features for modders and generall make Renegade a better game) Also, if EA DID give out the source (under NDA most likely) they would have rules attached to it. The NDA/license would likely contain rules about not using the source for malicious/bad purposes with penalties for doing so. In any case it doesnt really matter as its unlikely EA even knows where the source IS at this point (or where it went after they shut down the Westwood development shop in Vegas). And if they DID have it, they would never give it out since it contains far too many 3rd party libraries.
Gen_Blacky wrote on Wed, 10 November 2010 04:02 Even TT is not trust worthy enough to handle the source code tbh. Even though this group of people have created many wonderful things over the years for renegade like anticheat and bug fixs. How do we know that this group of people wouldn't take advantage of such things. We don't so logically the best answer is for no one to have the source. You do not seem to understand that TT doesn't NEED the sourcecode for it to do it's job. It just makes the TT job a whole lot easier than with reverse-engineering. I also think you don't have enough faith.
R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 09 November 2010 18:43 reborn wrote on Tue, 09 November 2010 04:41 R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:46 How am I wrong? You said: R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:30 Not one single person in this community is worthy of receiving the source code for this game. This statement is incorrect, therefore you are wrong. But how is it incorrect? It's incorrect because there is at least One person who is worthy of receiving the source code to renegade. You have formed your statement based on insufficient knowledge, and have come to an incorrect conclusion. I am not going to pretend that I am worthy of receiving the source code, but I do know enough to know that your statement is incorrect, and so are your reasons to coming to the conclusion that you did.
It's better not to release it at all. It's not because you can trust a person today that you can trust him tomorrow. We've had enough examples.
EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Wed, 10 November 2010 01:54 Gen_Blacky wrote on Wed, 10 November 2010 04:02 Even TT is not trust worthy enough to handle the source code tbh. Even though this group of people have created many wonderful things over the years for renegade like anticheat and bug fixs. How do we know that this group of people wouldn't take advantage of such things. We don't so logically the best answer is for no one to have the source. You do not seem to understand that TT doesn't NEED the sourcecode for it to do it's job. It just makes the TT job a whole lot easier than with reverse-engineering. I also think you don't have enough faith. I do understand that you do not need the source code you guys proved that long ago. You guys are basically exploiting renegade to make it better. Im not saying TT couldn't be trusted with the source. I was just using tt as an example to explain my argument. Also do you think ea would ever show snippets of code from the source of certain features that tt was interested in excluding all 3rd party code. Im sure ea doesn't give a crap but have you ever asked for examples how something may work. Goztow wrote on Wed, 10 November 2010 02:22 It's better not to release it at all. It's not because you can trust a person today that you can trust him tomorrow. We've had enough examples. This ^
reborn wrote on Tue, 09 November 2010 04:41 It's incorrect because there is at least One person who is worthy of receiving the source code to renegade. You have formed your statement based on insufficient knowledge, and have come to an incorrect conclusion. I am not going to pretend that I am worthy of receiving the source code, but I do know enough to know that your statement is incorrect, and so are your reasons to coming to the conclusion that you did. Even apart from the reason I gave before, I also happen to think that no one is trust worthy enough in this community to handel it. The only type of person I would trust with the source code is someone to take it and hide it away from everyone else. That's the only person that can be trusted with it. But, like I said, once the code is in the community, everyone will be trying to "improve" the game. That means to change it from what it is. No one will recieve the source code and do NOTHING with it. If someone got it, they will try what they believe is "improving" and that will ruin the game. I don't mean to say that there is no one in the community who can make quality adjustments to the game, to the contrary. I don't want their crap in this game regardless of the bugs they fix or the problems they remove. I'm trying to say that anyone who attempts to do so will effectively be assisting in killing off this community. Why? Because not everyone will agree with what is being changed. There will be multiple modifications splitting this game apart and that means less people will be playing together with one another. Eventually, people will get bored and leave. Just leave the game as it is right now. There is no need to change it.
CarrierII wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 17:06 Comp_uter15776 wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 16:35 please visit and sign up. It is a petition to persuade EA to make Renegade open source. If you would like more info please reply to this thread, and ill sure pick it up. P.S. Theres no harm in siging the petition, even if you think it won't work.... You don't even have to use proper info, if you want. Cheers, Comp. Open sourcing Renegade would actually make things worse, also, you kind of... forgot to link to the website. Edit: I fixed your link for you. Funny.dat, because the link returns a 404...
haha OP is just a troll, he doesn't care what you all think.
from 2003 lol, close to 3000 signatures: http://www.petitiononline.com/ren2/petition.html
trooprm02 wrote on Wed, 10 November 2010 14:43 from 2003 lol, close to 3000 signatures: http://www.petitiononline.com/ren2/petition.html just 2996 sigs! they won't be making any REAL money with just 3000 customers lol assuming they sold the game at $49 per box.
R315r4z0r wrote on Wed, 10 November 2010 12:07 There will be multiple modifications splitting this game apart [/color] You've changed your arguement from "There is no one person who should be given the source" to "The community should not be given the source". I do not see how I can continue to debate the point, when you've just changed it.
Open sourcing it wouldn't do much now, practically all of the renegade code has been hacked, changed and most functions in the code have had their addresses exposed anyway. It would only mean script kiddies would be creating even more cheats, hacks and silly scripts. Most of the stuff that isn't covered in scripts.dll 3.4.4 was intended to be hidden from easy access. This way, someone has to do *work* to make any deeper changes. Which, for as long as scripts.dll has existed I can only think of one thing that was created!
reborn wrote on Thu, 11 November 2010 06:11 R315r4z0r wrote on Wed, 10 November 2010 12:07 There will be multiple modifications splitting this game apart [/color] You've changed your arguement from "There is no one person who should be given the source" to "The community should not be given the source". I do not see how I can continue to debate the point, when you've just changed it. ..? I haven't changed anything...? Both those statements are the same thing... And you have yet to start a debate on the argument... so what you would be continuing is new to me... All you have been saying so far is 'you are wrong, I am right, deal with it.'
Those aren't even close to the same thing. Giving the source (or parts thereof) to a single person or small group is not the same as giving it "the community" which implies completely open-sourcing it.
While it seems logical or reasonable that those things will happen no matter who the source is given to, it's not correct, nor fair, to say with conviction that the source will ruin Renegade no matter who it's given to. I am willing to bet that at least one TT member or forum-goer has the will and responsibility to handle the code justly. Of course, I also believe it shouldn't be released at all.
Crimson wrote on Sat, 13 November 2010 02:31 Those aren't even close to the same thing. Giving the source (or parts thereof) to a single person or small group is not the same as giving it "the community" which implies completely open-sourcing it. It is the same thing, depending on which one you read first. If I had said "giving it to the community is bad" first and then I said "give it to one single person is bad" second, then they would be different arguments. But "any one person" is obviously going to be a member of the community. And since I said basically 'no one in the community should have it' it can also be said that 'the community doesn't deserve to have it.' If one person can't have it, then that goes for everyone in the community. That's why both statements mean the same thing.
0x90 is the only person i trust with the source code
Rocko wrote on Sun, 21 November 2010 03:08 0x90 is the only person i trust with the source code He won't do anything with it. Toggle Spoiler (0x90 == x86 opcode for NOP ie do nothing)
Looks like we're back in business boys! It only took them 15 years; totally a result of the change.org petition naturally /s Sorry for the necro it's great to see you all again.
Starbuzz wrote on Fri, 28 February 2025 14:38 best bump ever.
jonwil wrote on Tue, 09 November 2010 22:21 I can tell you right now that open sourcing renegade to just anyone would kill the game dead. The only people who should have the source code are those who would be trustworthy enough to use it for good and not evil. RenGuard suddenly became very relevant again
Things have changed a LOT since 2010. The OG renegade source code being open source is much less of a problem now because of the TT patch (which isn't open source) and its various anti-cheat systems.
Gen_Blacky wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 19:11 Also it will never happen.
jonwil wrote on Sat, 01 March 2025 04:13 Things have changed a LOT since 2010. The OG renegade source code being open source is much less of a problem now because of the TT patch (which isn't open source) and its various anti-cheat systems. after all the titanig work you and the other guys have done over the years.. does this sourse code added rally iportant stuf to the table or most if not all of worth you have already reverse ingeniering by now?
indios wrote on Sat, 05 April 2025 18:22 jonwil wrote on Sat, 01 March 2025 04:13 Things have changed a LOT since 2010. The OG renegade source code being open source is much less of a problem now because of the TT patch (which isn't open source) and its various anti-cheat systems. after all the titanig work you and the other guys have done over the years.. does this sourse code added rally iportant stuf to the table or most if not all of worth you have already reverse ingeniering by now? It WOULD if it wasn't for the fact we can't use any of it, if we use it we have to go open source, which will just open everything to the world of easy cheating, so alas it does TT team itself no benifit.
I've seen that logic before. But technically, isn't all of TT code a derivative work already? Albeit a derivative work of the version of the game that wasn't GPL licensed. Given how high profile the TT patches are, I'm assuming that some sort of permission was granted to distribute them.
They were gifted the parts of the original Renegade source code around 2009 by Apoc. And they RE'd most of the other code. No one can tell if they use the GPL'd source code or not, if they just rename some things inside the fuctions (e.g. variables) and use slightly different control statements no one can tell if it's RE'd code or GPL code. It's stupid to act as if it's a real issue.
That makes sense about the gifting of the code ~2009. Some portions of the scripts code are near identical to the source.
iRANian wrote on Mon, 28 April 2025 18:03 They were gifted the parts of the original Renegade source code around 2009 by Apoc. And they RE'd most of the other code. No one can tell if they use the GPL'd source code or not, if they just rename some things inside the fuctions (e.g. variables) and use slightly different control statements no one can tell if it's RE'd code or GPL code. It's stupid to act as if it's a real issue. I mean, we already had a leak once, so if it happened again and there was GPL'd code from the open source release then it'd be super easy to prove at that point. Even ignoring that I believe over the years they have used disassembly that is close enough to the original code to justify reason to aquire private source code bases (not EA just in general).