Command and Conquer: Renegade Official Forums - RDF feed
C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
Hello again to the Renegade community. When I first discovered the online side of Renegade, I saw a happy community with modifications such as RenHalo revealing glimpses and software such as Renguard being updated from its once glory downward. A while ago I stopped playing C&C Renegade when I discovered the world of open source gaming, but slowly I am realising that Renegade has heaps of potential still to this day. What Renegade has is unique. The online code originally written for Renegade is practically within the rules of the experimental gameplay project which left in huge holes and useless characters amongst other untied ends. This provided a vast sandbox for modifications that drastically changed gameplay or experience without having to create new models or textures to supplement the diets of renegamers. Some projects are still online, such as RP2, but others might as well be dead for little communication exists other than occasional ( but vast ) accomplishment lists ( TT ). All I can offer is the constructive advice that to be a successful non-for-profit project, you need people to know what you are doing not just so they understand your aims and achievements but also so that the community sees progress and wants to be part of the construction. Projects such as Overgrowth work well, with thousands of community members and equally as much money spent with donations and pre-orders to a game that is not even half way through making. I'm not here to blame the modders though. Multi million ( billion? ) dollar organisations such as EA could open source Renegade at a whim. More than likely it would be in their interest, creating publicity and improving sales of the rest of their C&C series, but instead they sit by and let entropy do its thing. Rather than a discussion on what is wrong with the community, could we have a go at answering the question on how we fix it? We don't have to, but we are the only people who can. Regards, William
Even if EA did want to open source renegade, they couldn't do it. Firstly, renegade uses 3rd party libraries like Miles for audio and Bink for video, none of which EA can legally redistribute (i.e. the bits that you would need if you were working with the source) Secondly, they would need to review every line of code looking for things that could be an issue (3rd party code, things that would reflect poorly on EA etc) And thirdly, if EA open sourced renegade, it would give cheaters ways to make cheats far beyond what can be done now.
First TT, then the rest .
I'm sure if EA actually cared enough they could work out something legal to release the source (privately, to the members of TT only) via some sort of sub-contracting license, since this patch is intended to be an official update of sorts. But that's only if EA cared, which they don't... So tough luck for us.
What would make Renegade great again? Players.
Goztow wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 07:45 First TT, then the rest . saw this coming luv2pb wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 10:43 What would make Renegade great again? Players. this as well
jonwil wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 07:53 And thirdly, if EA open sourced renegade, it would give cheaters ways to make cheats far beyond what can be done now. a000clown wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 11:16 I'm sure if EA actually cared enough they could work out something legal to release the source (privately, to the members of TT only) ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhsilentkane
liquidv2 wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 00:13 jonwil wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 07:53 And thirdly, if EA open sourced renegade, it would give cheaters ways to make cheats far beyond what can be done now. a000clown wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 11:16 I'm sure if EA actually cared enough they could work out something legal to release the source (privately, to the members of TT only) ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhsilentkane silentkane would leak it to ox90
Renegade is dead... TT has less of a chance of saving it everyday we continue to wait for it.
Clark Kent wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 01:39 Renegade is dead... TT has less of a chance of saving it everyday we continue to wait for it. Renegade is actually not dead. Dead is when no players play it and I run two servers with =DA=Phob and we get about 16 players in it every day and i see n00bstories and jelly is doing better then ever, I even see some nubs that never played Renegade ever. Also alot of people are coming back to Renegade. Renegade is going up from last year as I currently see and my clan is more active then ever. Edit: I lost faith in TT Patch.
Good-One-Driver wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 00:54 Clark Kent wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 01:39 Renegade is dead... TT has less of a chance of saving it everyday we continue to wait for it. Renegade is actually not dead. Dead is when no players play it and I run two servers with =DA=Phob and we get about 16 players in it every day and i see n00bstories and jelly is doing better then ever, I even see some nubs that never played Renegade ever. Also alot of people are coming back to Renegade. Renegade is going up from last year as I currently see and my clan is more active then ever. 1. Not sure what you mean by 16 players... but that is not shit compared to what Ren used to be. 2. NS and Jelly = better than ever... Doubtful, very doubtful. Especially seeing how they have fewer servers than in the past. 3. New people maybe, but not enough to make a difference... and they probably are not gonna stay long. 4. Old players coming back, probably... untill they are reminded why they quit playing and fade away again. I know I have done that a few times. 5. Clans becoming active again happens quite a bit from what I hear, but the hype fades fast, or people cheat to be the best...
Clark Kent wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 01:03 Good-One-Driver wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 00:54 Clark Kent wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 01:39 Renegade is dead... TT has less of a chance of saving it everyday we continue to wait for it. Renegade is actually not dead. Dead is when no players play it and I run two servers with =DA=Phob and we get about 16 players in it every day and i see n00bstories and jelly is doing better then ever, I even see some nubs that never played Renegade ever. Also alot of people are coming back to Renegade. Renegade is going up from last year as I currently see and my clan is more active then ever. 1. Not sure what you mean by 16 players... but that is not shit compared to what Ren used to be. 2. NS and Jelly = better than ever... Doubtful, very doubtful. Especially seeing how they have fewer servers than in the past. 3. New people maybe, but not enough to make a difference... and they probably are not gonna stay long. 4. Old players coming back, probably... untill they are reminded why they quit playing and fade away again. I know I have done that a few times. 5. Clans becoming active again happens quite a bit from what I hear, but the hype fades fast, or people cheat to be the best... 1. well a few months ago our servers where completly dead so this is progress. 2. well they probably arn't better then ever, but they are very active you can actually catch a good game in one of thies 3. yes not to much to see but its helping and improving. 4. I talked to a few old players and there coming back casue of cw.cc and they missed the good times in Renegade. 5. yes, clans are becoming active again but nobody is doing clan wars I have to beg a clan to have a fun war or clanwar. 6. cw.cc is back which is great!
jonwil wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 22:53 Even if EA did want to open source renegade, they couldn't do it. Firstly, renegade uses 3rd party libraries like Miles for audio and Bink for video, none of which EA can legally redistribute (i.e. the bits that you would need if you were working with the source) Secondly, they would need to review every line of code looking for things that could be an issue (3rd party code, things that would reflect poorly on EA etc) And thirdly, if EA open sourced renegade, it would give cheaters ways to make cheats far beyond what can be done now. Unless the engine source contains large amounts of intermingled code ( monolithic design rather than modular ) from the libraries ( as opposed to code that connects to the libraries ) I don't see what the issue is. Even if a big chunk of the engine source is missing it is better than nothing, and loose ends of code that would normally talk to external libraries could be re-written to use free ones ( eg OpenGL, OpenAL and a better codec than Bink like Theora ). Once Renegade is open sourced more modders will join our current dedicated modders ( eg John & Jerad ) and make Renegade great again. More than likely editing the game the way we currently are means we are facing the exact same legal problems, it is just EA and affiliates turn a blind eye to 'harmless modding' activities. The idea that open source games fall to cheats more easily is as easily countered by the fact that people will be able to contribute fixes. My operating system ( Ubuntu Linux ) is not affected by a single piece of malware to date, even though it amongst the other hundreds of distributions are open source. Yes it is easier to write cheats, but it is twice as easy to write counter-measures and with good moderators the problem does not exist. Remember to try to be constructive with 'How do we get Renegade great again' rather than 'What is wrong with Renegade'. The same complaints existed before Renguard was released, with topics claiming the online community will be 'dead within a month' due to cheaters - but most people understood this is not true. Ferhago wrote on Sat, 31 May 2003 22:50 It would last a lot longer if you would stop posting threads like this. DAMN YOU PLANETSIDE WHY MUST YOU STEAL ALL OF THE RENEGADE PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! spreegem wrote on Sun, 01 June 2003 06:57 Renegade will live for ever I think Regards, William
Malware is different to cheats. Malware is software that the owner of the computer does not wish to run (and therefore will install things designed to block it) Cheats on the other hand are things the owner of the computer wishes to run. Given the architecture of renegade, it is almost impossible to stop many cheats purely on the server (including various forms of hacked objects.ddb files) if the client can "lie" to the server (e.g. sending the hash of an unmodified objects.ddb file even though its loaded a modified one)
Can someone explain this GNU General Public License stuff? Does this mean that everyone can make commercial videogames using the Quake 3 engine or does this only cover free games i.e. Quake 3 mods that now no longer need Quake 3?
dthdealer wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 15:27 Unless the engine source contains large amounts of intermingled code ( monolithic design rather than modular ) from the libraries The issue is that without reviewing EVERY single code file, its impossible to know what files contain 3rd party code. If EA were to release a single line of code without permission, they would be in trouble. And since reviewing every file takes time (and time = $$$), its not going to happen. With regard to other games that have been made open source such as Quake 3 or DOOM, A.Those games are much smaller and simpler (and therefore any required code review is much easier and cheaper) and B.ID Software specifically made sure from day one any 3rd party code is 100% seperate from ID software code (so it can easily be removed). Renegade is much more complex than DOOM and Quake and EA almost certainly never cared about any mixing of 3rd party code with EA code.
I'm not comparing Quake with Renegade, it was a general question about being able to sell games built for an open source id software engine and you didn't really answer that. All this talk about open source (which fucked up Enemy Territory public gameplay similar to what happened to Renegade and now all that's left are gay slavs) had me thinking about id tech 4 going open source in 2011. It doesn't look dated (see brink) and we won't be seeing any major breakthroughs in graphics as the console manufacturers are going for interactive controllers/3d nonsense instead of better hardware/graphics so we probably won't see a Playstation 4/Xbox 3 until 2013 or later. Indy developers could theoretically be selling games with state of the art graphics and only have a pay their employees, right? The only mod team I know of in a similar position is Tripwire because they won some Unreal engine contest, others seem to use outdated engines or have to build their own, which has to suck either way.
Getting it onto Steam as a free download after the TT patch is done is probably the best way to publicise to a wide audience, how that can ever be achieved is another question altogether.
jonwil wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 18:28 ...Malware is software that the owner of the computer does not wish to run... ...Cheats on the other hand are things the owner of the computer wishes to run... I don't understand how this affects whether or not it will be easier to cheat or to uncover cheaters in an open source Renegade. Whether or not cheats are desired is just as prevalent in a closed source project - and possibly some of the cheat writers would turn around and contribute to the code instead. Quote: Renegade is much more complex than DOOM and Quake and EA almost certainly never cared about any mixing of 3rd party code with EA code. Good old EA - this is why monolithic design is never nice in the long term. There goes any hopes for an open-source Renegade. Thanks Jonwil for the insight. It's an unwanted truth Could it be possible for the server to run a version of the client game ( simultaneously with the server ) that is modified to output things such as deviations from where the client predicts other players/entities will will be to where they end up the next lot of packets? Then you would just need to check of the deviation is within an acceptable range of what was predicted.
There are few options that are in the realms of possibility (The list gets less and less likely (and serious) as it goes on) to increase renegade's player count... Please note, while some of these ideas are theoretically possible, I do not endorse the behaviour. Most of the ideas are illegal and immoral, no one should consider trying them (they are just fantasy). Torrents Hosting a server on Gamespy and disabling it's serial validation by patching the FDS (or better creating a WOL clone) would mean that players do not require a serial to play. You could then totally flood the torrent scene with the ISO's of the discs, and provide a valid serial for installation. The torrent gamers love a free a game, and it's pretty much gauranteed to be free to play forever that way. Especially if someone had a WOL clone and the torrent version was cracked to join there automatically). However, this would split the community (existing clients would not likely move to the the servers hosted on the WOL clone). Olaf disables serial validation Olaf controlls XWIS. If he was to disable serial validation, it would mean that you could flood the torrent scene with the renegade ISO's and a valid serial for installation purporses. This would have the added advantage of not splitting the community. However, while Olaf owns and operates XWIS, he is not in the position to disable serial validation without consent from EA. If he did it without their consent, they would likely remove there redirects. If they did not boot back up their WOL servers (which they likely wouldn't), then Renegade would be no more. Hack Someone hacks Olaf's XWIS serial validation server and disables it. If he doesn't notice, and more importantly neither do EA, then you could follow through witht he torrent flooding. If EA or Olaf realised, then it could be turned back on, meaning the opputunity of attarcting torrenters again, would be lower. Plus EA might just turn off their redirect anyway to XWIS, even though it wasn't Olaf's fault. Plus, EA would find out almost immediately, anyway. Hack 2 Someone hacked the serial database and released all the serials, would require a little marketing, but would be effective. Slightly less effective would be someone creating a serial generator for renegade, as not all serials would be held on the serial database, so would be a little hit and miss for the clients (and it needs to be as pain free as possible for them). EA gives the game away for free I heard EA are contractually oblidged to not give it away for free for some time still to come, probably something to do with it being part of TFD which is still being sold. However, they have released CnC games for free before. Marketing This would have to be highly effective and on a shoe string budget. Publicity stunts of the highest order would be needed to make an impact. We're talking parliamentry break-in's, faked televised suicide attempts, Sporting event take-over's... Possibly a fake virus that swept the world? Fathers for justice are a good example of this type of marketing, but there's no way a group of Renegade fans are going to be stupid enough to do this sort of thing, and anything short of it would fail. Lottery If someone won the Euro millions and was an avid renegade fan, they could make the game popular again by arranging with EA that it be released, and also advertising it. This however, is not going to happen. I can't think of anything else that might work at the moment, but as you can see, there is little chance of actually accomplishing this.
reborn wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 07:29 Torrents Hosting a server on Gamespy and disabling it's serial validation by patching the FDS (or better creating a WOL clone) would mean that players do not require a serial to play. You could then totally flood the torrent scene with the ISO's of the discs, and provide a valid serial for installation. The torrent gamers love a free a game, and it's pretty much gauranteed to be free to play forever that way. Especially if someone had a WOL clone and the torrent version was cracked to join there automatically). However, this would split the community (existing clients would not likely move to the the servers hosted on the WOL clone). I've said this before. TT could whip it together in like 30 seconds (normal) time ... 3.5 years their time. It doesn't even have to be that complex. First off you bundle the install disk, patch, cp's, rg, rr, scripts, portal, HUDs, skins, ts, reborn, mirc, porn, apb, tt and what ever the hell else you can think of into one clean install. Then you take 30 seconds to write an app that scans xwis for available servers and lets you select which one to direct connect to. Throw a little unique identifier in there to prevent abuse and you're golden. Servers that don't want to participate could block direct connect or block that unique identifier. Even if EA gave a shit there isn't anything they could do about it. Even if they tell TT to stop once it is out there it is out there. *I know it isn't really that easy but you get the idea. Herr Surth wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 07:56 how about pleas for our starving cats? I see what you did there.
Didn't EA release some C&C games as multiplayer-only free downloads? Maybe we'll just have to hang tight for another 5 years
luv2pb wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 15:25 reborn wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 07:29 Torrents Hosting a server on Gamespy and disabling it's serial validation by patching the FDS (or better creating a WOL clone) would mean that players do not require a serial to play. You could then totally flood the torrent scene with the ISO's of the discs, and provide a valid serial for installation. The torrent gamers love a free a game, and it's pretty much gauranteed to be free to play forever that way. Especially if someone had a WOL clone and the torrent version was cracked to join there automatically). However, this would split the community (existing clients would not likely move to the the servers hosted on the WOL clone). I've said this before. TT could whip it together in like 30 seconds (normal) time ... 3.5 years their time. It doesn't even have to be that complex. First off you bundle the install disk, patch, cp's, rg, rr, scripts, portal, HUDs, skins, ts, reborn, mirc, porn, apb, tt and what ever the hell else you can think of into one clean install. Then you take 30 seconds to write an app that scans xwis for available servers and lets you select which one to direct connect to. Throw a little unique identifier in there to prevent abuse and you're golden. Servers that don't want to participate could block direct connect or block that unique identifier. Even if EA gave a shit there isn't anything they could do about it. Even if they tell TT to stop once it is out there it is out there. *I know it isn't really that easy but you get the idea. Herr Surth wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 07:56 how about pleas for our starving cats? I see what you did there. With the software we have at BlackIntel currently, I guess making a WOL clone which connects to the actual XWIS server isn't really the problem. Would basically do the reversed of what we did when we made a WOL proxy that allowed our server to be both on the USA and the EURO one at the same time . I've also made an installer which installs Renegade, WOLAPI, most of the Core Patches, the UberMapPack without skins and the latest scripts release. So the illegal way wouldn't be hard, but it wouldn't help us (the TT team) to get EA to push TT over the patcher. Therefor can't do this right now. For now we're focusing on releasing TT over the patcher and possibly getting EA to release it for free/very cheap on STEAM.
JohnDoe wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 09:02 Didn't EA release some C&C games as multiplayer-only free downloads? Maybe we'll just have to hang tight for another 5 years They released C&C95, RA1, and TS for free... the first of which doesn't even HAVE multiplayer, so, not quite. Eventually Renegade will have a free release, but not before RA2 and Yuri's Revenge.
GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 08:28 JohnDoe wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 09:02 Didn't EA release some C&C games as multiplayer-only free downloads? Maybe we'll just have to hang tight for another 5 years They released C&C95, RA1, and TS for free... the first of which doesn't even HAVE multiplayer, so, not quite. Eventually Renegade will have a free release, but not before RA2 and Yuri's Revenge. Uh... what about this? (files are actually now downloadable from my post in the thread, FilePlanet and a different place and format on Understorm.) Does this not work with the downloadable versions?
Does anyone still play C&C or Red Alert?
Yes, i know a few people what would play it.
JohnDoe wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 17:04 Does anyone still play C&C or Red Alert? I play red alert aftermath
EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 15:22 For now we're focusing on releasing TT over the patcher and possibly getting EA to release it for free/very cheap on STEAM. This.
The only thing that can get Renegade 'great' again is if people start playing it again. I don't want to say that the TT project is wasted effort but I will say that it's not going to have the effect it's hoping to have. TT will have more of an effect on mods such as APB, AR and Reborn rather than on Renegade itself.
Renegade needs more players. The only way it will get more is if EA decides to release Renegade as freeware, like it did with C&C Gold, Red Alert, and Tiberian Sun/Firestorm. EDIT: RP2 is the best mod ever made, everyone should play it.
reborn wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 07:29 Olaf disables serial validation Olaf controlls XWIS. If he was to disable serial validation, it would mean that you could flood the torrent scene with the renegade ISO's and a valid serial for installation purporses. This would have the added advantage of not splitting the community. However, while Olaf owns and operates XWIS, he is not in the position to disable serial validation without consent from EA. If he did it without their consent, they would likely remove there redirects. If they did not boot back up their WOL servers (which they likely wouldn't), then Renegade would be no more. EA gives the game away for free I heard EA are contractually oblidged to not give it away for free for some time still to come, probably something to do with it being part of TFD which is still being sold. However, they have released CnC games for free before. @serial validation, heres where things went wrong in the first place.....for those of you who don't know, BHS put in their own bid to EA to take over atleast the renegade portion of what is now XWIS but ultimately conceded to just having "mod" powers (crimson and blazer specifically). Remember, XWIS now gets money from EA to pay for server costs etc, so it was in their interest to maintain control....BUT if this wouldn't have happened, Crimson would have had access to the update servers, would have been able to get the ladder going instantly, etc Moving on, I think removing all serial checks is a good idea but even if all (or most) of the server owners want to install a mod to do this (which they do) it would still mean people would need to connect through gamespy or direct connect which is not ideal.... @renegade released as free, this is the best possible thing that could happen (ESPECIALLY if timed with the release of TT) but will most likely not happen with a year or two and not because of some contractual thing but because they would have to release RA2 first....for EA it doesn't matter, they wouldn't be making anything open source, so licensing stuff from Miles/Brink etc is a non issue
dthdealer wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 07:11 How do we get Renegade great again? Add "-X"
trooprm02 wrote on Wed, 11 August 2010 14:00 reborn wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 07:29 Olaf disables serial validation Olaf controlls XWIS. If he was to disable serial validation, it would mean that you could flood the torrent scene with the renegade ISO's and a valid serial for installation purporses. This would have the added advantage of not splitting the community. However, while Olaf owns and operates XWIS, he is not in the position to disable serial validation without consent from EA. If he did it without their consent, they would likely remove there redirects. If they did not boot back up their WOL servers (which they likely wouldn't), then Renegade would be no more. EA gives the game away for free I heard EA are contractually oblidged to not give it away for free for some time still to come, probably something to do with it being part of TFD which is still being sold. However, they have released CnC games for free before. @serial validation, heres where things went wrong in the first place.....for those of you who don't know, BHS put in their own bid to EA to take over atleast the renegade portion of what is now XWIS but ultimately conceded to just having "mod" powers (crimson and blazer specifically). Remember, XWIS now gets money from EA to pay for server costs etc, so it was in their interest to maintain control....BUT if this wouldn't have happened, Crimson would have had access to the update servers, would have been able to get the ladder going instantly, etc Moving on, I think removing all serial checks is a good idea but even if all (or most) of the server owners want to install a mod to do this (which they do) it would still mean people would need to connect through gamespy or direct connect which is not ideal.... I was saying remove XWIS serial validation. FDS's do not validate serials at all, they're just capable of retrieving the hash. I made (and by "I", I actually mean a collective effort from myself, SaberHawk and Adad) a plugin for removing serial validation for servers hosted on GameSpy, but really it's preferable though XWIS (how are the people without a valid serial supposed to know which servers they can join without getting booted for an invalid serial?). I'll be releasing it this weekend, although I think Zunnie already zipped it up in the SSAPB release.
Quote: plugin for removing serial validation for servers hosted on GameSpy SK made this ages ago! It's downloadable in the useful ressources sticky.
The one way to make Renegade great again? Well, play RP2 of course.
reborn wrote on Fri, 13 August 2010 18:56 What the fuck? lol... Well, GSA got no more serial updates after, say 2004'ish, so servers had to do something about it...
Goztow wrote on Sat, 14 August 2010 03:34 reborn wrote on Fri, 13 August 2010 18:56 What the fuck? lol... Well, GSA got no more serial updates after, say 2004'ish, so servers had to do something about it... Sorry, I meant I had no idea something had already been released. I wasted my time.
By having TT alpha/beta events with a lot of players.
I honestly believe the only likely possible way to get more players is to make a WOL clone, then if by chance someone (not the WOL clone operator) flooded a release of a renegade torrent directing them to the clone. Obviously that's all hypothetical.
EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sun, 15 August 2010 14:10 By having TT alpha/beta events with a lot of players. This was already suggested, but some of the other server owners weren't as enthusiastic to say the least..
We (that is TT) plan to have a big beta test event hosted on a BlackIntel box. We dont know when this will happen as we want to make sure 4.0 is stable/bug-free enough first.
It doesn't matter how good TT is or is not if no one is playing Renegade.
luv2pb wrote on Wed, 18 August 2010 09:11 It doesn't matter how good TT is or is not if no one is playing Renegade. As Crimson's friend, you could ask her a favour of giving you the REOL files.
Crimson doesn't have the REOL files. Anything made by RE is at best incomplete and barely operable anyway. The TT team could whip up a suitable WOL clone in a matter of days (a couple weeks if you include testing) but moving the community to a clone is a nightmarish process that will most likely split the community in half and ultimately end up in no one moving to it. As for disabling serial validation, I am quite against that idea while XWIS is still prone to page flood abuse. Serial banning is the only weapon we have against them at the moment. There are other types of floods that are possible as well that we would be completely unable to stop without XWIS serial banning.
look at crimson ruining your shit with the cold hard facts
Crimson wrote on Wed, 18 August 2010 18:14 Crimson doesn't have the REOL files. Anything made by RE is at best incomplete and barely operable anyway. The TT team could whip up a suitable WOL clone in a matter of days (a couple weeks if you include testing) but moving the community to a clone is a nightmarish process that will most likely split the community in half and ultimately end up in no one moving to it. As for disabling serial validation, I am quite against that idea while XWIS is still prone to page flood abuse. Serial banning is the only weapon we have against them at the moment. There are other types of floods that are possible as well that we would be completely unable to stop without XWIS serial banning. I thought REOL was complete and you was in possesion of it, my bad. Although, as you pointed out, it's mainly irrelevant anyway as One could be made in a reletively short amount of time. However, I disagree that it would split the community. You could list the FDS on both XWIS and the clone at the same time, most players that joined via XWIS would not even be aware of the type of server they joined. In any case, if it did cause a split, then those faithful to XWIS would just stay in the XWIS only servers. I can't see servers like n00bstories and Jelly moving from XWIS, as they see a nice amount of players anyway. However, there are a mass amount of empty servers sitting on XWIS, they have nothing to lose by listing their server on both platforms, or just migrating altogether. While it's true serial validation on XWIS means that most threats are blocked, it's by no means fool proof, and anyone with a slight amount of knowledge on XWIS protocol could prove that pretty easily. Although granted, serial validation is nice for many reasons, and it's better to have it. However, serial validation is of little importance to the server owner with 0 players. You can't justify turning it off globally on XWIS for said server owner, so a clone is at least a viable alternative. You could perhaps even make the torrented game include a little patch that sends XWIS upon joining their hardware serial information. Better than nothing.
Tell people to go out and buy all of HL2, then make a Renegade conversion mod. Thats how end of story bro. HL2 <3
But nobody gives two shits about the 0-player servers anyway.
Dover wrote on Thu, 19 August 2010 13:23 But nobody gives two shits about the 0-player servers anyway. The server owner and communities behind them do. Besides, if there was players to fill those servers, then people would care!
No, really... there's no reason to run a server that is lucky to get 5 players in it at the same time and sits empty for 75% of the day or more. If n00bstories ever gets to that point, I'm not wasting any more money.
Crimson wrote on Thu, 19 August 2010 20:52 No, really... there's no reason to run a server that is lucky to get 5 players in it at the same time and sits empty for 75% of the day or more. If n00bstories ever gets to that point, I'm not wasting any more money. I agree. You're totally right. However, a WOL clone might just offer those servers a chance for some traffic. You never know... If the launch of the torrent was successful, it may have more players than XWIS.
I'm sure you thought of this, but... it's also very illegal.
Goztow wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 03:44 I'm sure you thought of this, but... it's also very illegal. reborn wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 08:29 Please note, while some of these ideas are theoretically possible, I do not endorse the behaviour. Most of the ideas are illegal and immoral, no one should consider trying them (they are just fantasy). Absolutely, this is all just hypothetical. However, if someone was to make and host a clone of WOL, then I am unsure that that would be illegal. If it is, then a precident has been set not only with XWIS prior to the switch, but other clones for other cnc games that are still in use, without interferance or complaint from EA. The illegal part would be the distribution of the game itself, thus the responsibility being on the client. However, the ISO's have been hosted by many people here witout any action taken against them, and there are working keygens that would allow for installation.
reborn wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 06:29 There are Please note, while some of these ideas are theoretically possible, I do not endorse the behaviour. Most of the ideas are illegal and immoral, no one should consider trying them (they are just fantasy). Torrents Olaf disables serial validation Torrents: It was done last year, where were you? You guys never noticed ALOT of players from (another game mentioned in this topic)? Oh well I guess a secret is better with less people involved. :v PM me sometime, I might tell ya. Olaf disables serial validation: Like having serials matter in this day and age? Even Southpark's Timmy! can change his serial in the time it takes to /run.
jonwil wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 07:53 Firstly, renegade uses 3rd party libraries like Miles for audio and Bink for video, none of which EA can legally redistribute (i.e. the bits that you would need if you were working with the source) Actually they can legally redistribute them. The same happened with the UDK. You only have to include one extra line of text somewhere in the game/splashscreen etc. that says: "Video technology by Bink" (or something like that). I don't know for Miles, but for Bink they can. ------ As for the WOL/XWIS part. You better consider this obsolete, since most people nowadays use direct-connect applications like Renegade Ressurrection, RenIP, GameSpy etc... As far as I know, these methods do not check for legit serials, which in theory, would allow a player to join a server WITHOUT a serial key.
shaitan wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 07:45 reborn wrote on Tue, 03 August 2010 06:29 There are Please note, while some of these ideas are theoretically possible, I do not endorse the behaviour. Most of the ideas are illegal and immoral, no one should consider trying them (they are just fantasy). Torrents Olaf disables serial validation Torrents: It was done last year, where were you? You guys never noticed ALOT of players from (another game mentioned in this topic)? Oh well I guess a secret is better with less people involved. :v PM me sometime, I might tell ya. We're talking about a torrent which means they could join and browse servers as you do in XWIS now, only connected to a clone. Releasing a torrent that connects to XWIS is pointless, as you need a valid serial to join (not just One that can get the game installed, but an actual valid serial). shaitan wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 07:45 Olaf disables serial validation: Like having serials matter in this day and age? Even Southpark's Timmy! can change his serial in the time it takes to /run. Serials do matter if you wish to join XWIS. While Timmy might be able to change his serial, it's irrelevant unless that serial is valid. Anon wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 07:50 As for the WOL/XWIS part. You better consider this obsolete, since most people nowadays use direct-connect applications like Renegade Ressurrection, RenIP, GameSpy etc... As far as I know, these methods do not check for legit serials, which in theory, would allow a player to join a server WITHOUT a serial key. I'm not sure whether your claim of "most people use direct connect these days" is actually true or not. I am curious how you got that statistic. In any case, that statistic is irrelevant... A torrent of the game connecting players to a clone would render direct connect rather redundant, as the need to by-pass serial validation would not be there. You need to make it as easy as possible for new players. step 1. click Install.exe step 2. Run keygen.exe when prompted for your serial step 3. Copy/paste the serial step 4. Launch the game and browse which server you want to join through the advanced game listings screen
reborn wrote on Thu, 19 August 2010 11:31 Dover wrote on Thu, 19 August 2010 13:23 But nobody gives two shits about the 0-player servers anyway. The server owner and communities behind them do. Besides, if there was players to fill those servers, then people would care! The 0-player communities that comprise the 0-player servers?
Dover wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 09:39 The 0-player communities that comprise the 0-player servers? It's difficult to get players into your server with such few players around. If there was an alternative for those server owners and a chance of capturing new players, why no try? It's the server owners with 0 players that would have the most to gain by trying.
reborn wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 06:44 new players Who?
The discussion was about releasing a torrent of the game that connected to the WOL clone, and posting said torrent all over that particular scene. When Zunnie released APB as a torrent and spammed it everywhere, we saw a massive amount of new players and there was over a few thousand complete downloads from the primary seed. Many of these players we retained in the server. The people on those sites thought they was getting the game for "free", which they did, but so can anybody else as the game costs nothing. This is the new players I was referring to.
If APB was able to create a WOL clone, which doesn't require a serial key, why not make one for Renegade?
reborn wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 06:01 We're talking about a torrent which means they could join and browse servers as you do in XWIS now, only connected to a clone. Releasing a torrent that connects to XWIS is pointless, as you need a valid serial to join (not just One that can get the game installed, but an actual valid serial). Serials do matter if you wish to join XWIS. While Timmy might be able to change his serial, it's irrelevant unless that serial is valid. I'm not sure whether your claim of "most people use direct connect these days" is actually true or not. I am curious how you got that statistic. In any case, that statistic is irrelevant... I wasn't referring to your "clone/torrent" strategy. I was just using your words to reply to the topic at hand: "How do we get Renegade great again?" I was merely saying that, yes, we have gotten new players to the Renegade/APB/RenX community in the torrent manner(no matter how some look down upon what was done to get them here). The serial thing: I'm just saying us even using them is pointless really(from an anti-cheater standpoint). Sure you have to in order to use Xwis, but the ones we got from UT(that torrenting before) all use RR to connect. Which sort of goes with your statement to this other guy about "direct connect". RR is used to join by alot of people.
Anon wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 10:36 If APB was able to create a WOL clone, which doesn't require a serial key, why not make one for Renegade? APB was not able to make a WOL clone, they use a direct connect server browser/launcher.
We might be able to create some sort of "community version" or whatever you would call it. Just get the default Renegade installation, add all updates and Renegade Ressurrection and create a new installer, which applies a random serial/id/string to the game. The user can then play Renegade using direct-connect without having to install a lot of patches and scripts (I think this is why we lose many potential players). You could even make a small modification to the game.exe file which disables the WOL buttons, so the players are actually forced to direct-connect. This way new people can play the game without too much of a hassle. I think this idea might have a lot of potential, especially in the torrenting scene and on warez based websites.
Anon wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 12:35 I think this idea might have a lot of potential, especially in the torrenting scene and on warez based websites. Not that anyone condones warez!!!!
In my opinion, what will make renegade more played is have a more tactical online game and bring back the ranking system and maybe improve it. I have no point for playing renegade right now because what ever I earn in the game doesn't save and wouldn't help me in future matches. Other games like Battlefield 2 are still fun to play because there is a goal and its to get into a new rank and start bragging. Having to care about your K/D ratio will make gameplay experience much better because people would actually care about not getting deaths so they wont go and mine the APC. I really enjoy playing Bad Company 2 right, not because its new, not because it has more players, just because i have something to care about and its to get good score, which makes me want to play better and that makes it fun for everyone.
We do have a ladder - http://renladder.blackhand-studios.net
I play Renegade because I like to play it, not because I want to reach level 500000 and move on to something else. Your idea might actually decrease teamwork even more and that would just be horrible for this game. Those who like a game will still play on even after they've reached the highest level they can possibly get to.
argathol3 wrote on Sat, 21 August 2010 05:55 That ladder is broken... How?
Goztow wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 02:44 I'm sure you thought of this, but... it's also very illegal. No it isn't.
Hold tournaments and give away prizes.
luv2pb wrote on Sat, 21 August 2010 13:24 Goztow wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 02:44 I'm sure you thought of this, but... it's also very illegal. No it isn't. Although tournaments are cool, and there needs to be more of them, they won't really breathe much life into the game. Tournament games are private, and private games happen all the time. Renegade would need something that can boost playercounts in public servers and get more servers populated.
That's why I said give away prizes.
R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 21 August 2010 17:32 That's why I said give away prizes. I think NS has some sort of system like that going. If I'm not mistaken, I think sometimes they have prizes that can be outright won; and then you can accumulate "n00b dollars" which are used as a currency to buy stuff.
snpr1101 wrote on Sat, 21 August 2010 17:35 R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 21 August 2010 17:32 That's why I said give away prizes. I think NS has some sort of system like that going. If I'm not mistaken, I think sometimes they have prizes that can be outright won; and then you can accumulate "n00b dollars" which are used as a currency to buy stuff. You earn n00b dollars by being active in the community. Then you use those n00b dollars like raffle tickets. The more you put in the more chance you have of winning. We do 3-4 various things every month. A itunes gift card one just finished and we have a jackpot on up now. It is great for the community but doesn't really do anything for Renegade. If you try to pay your players all you get is StallionDavid playing in your server alone all month. The reality is unless the server owners (the actually owners not the people who pretend to be important) stop looking at things like a competition and consolidate nothing is going to change.
The problem is that most people see consolidating as "I'll take over that community's player base" :-S. And well... there's little less you can do to consolidate anyway, I guess. Ideally we'd just have a list with 8'ish serversn all with a different setup / purpose (snipe, modded, big, small).
cmatt42 wrote on Sat, 21 August 2010 11:03 argathol3 wrote on Sat, 21 August 2010 05:55 That ladder is broken... How? For one it says I got 100+ kills on the canyon game I frapsed and I'm 100% sure that didn't happen it says I've only played 14 games which isn't even close (embarrassingly so but I've had a lot of time on my hands this month). It's also missing multiple hour long games(at least 6-7 of them) in jelly-marathon.
it seems long games are more prone to being missed by the ladder.
The thing I don't like about these n00bdollers is the fact that you use them as raffle tickets. That doesn't aid in getting people to play. In fact, I find it more of a deterrent. Think about it. If you wanted to try and win something by playing the game, you wouldn't be stacked against equal odds. You would have to out perform the players who already have enough n00bdollers to enter a raffle. Granted I really don't know much about this system, I think that the best way to give away prizes would be to award the player(s) who come out on top in a ladder season. Now, I'm not talking about having one person put their money in and give it away to some stranger just because they beat you at a video game. These things need to be organized by groups of people who pool their ideas and prizes. It also cannot be limited to a single server. It has to take place all through out the Renegade community. The goal here is not to promote your server but to promote the entire game. It doesn't matter what server someone is playing on, just as long as they are playing the game.
grant89uk wrote on Sun, 22 August 2010 09:11 it seems long games are more prone to being missed by the ladder. That's ridiculous...you spend all that time in a long game to win and get some good ladder out of it just to have it not even count. I've played in marathon for a looong time now and have 0 interest in playing elsewhere so for us marathon players this makes the ladder useless to us I guess our alternative is to get the NoN00bs ladder running again lol
R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 22 August 2010 09:18 The thing I don't like about these n00bdollers is the fact that you use them as raffle tickets. That doesn't aid in getting people to play. In fact, I find it more of a deterrent. Think about it. If you wanted to try and win something by playing the game, you wouldn't be stacked against equal odds. You would have to out perform the players who already have enough n00bdollers to enter a raffle. Granted I really don't know much about this system, I think that the best way to give away prizes would be to award the player(s) who come out on top in a ladder season. Now, I'm not talking about having one person put their money in and give it away to some stranger just because they beat you at a video game. These things need to be organized by groups of people who pool their ideas and prizes. It also cannot be limited to a single server. It has to take place all through out the Renegade community. The goal here is not to promote your server but to promote the entire game. It doesn't matter what server someone is playing on, just as long as they are playing the game. As I said before it isn't part of Renegade and can't really be. It's part of the community activity (irc, stories, forums, ect). I guess if your sole intention was to pump Ren and not have anything else at all it could work. Even then it would only work IF you had high player counts.
Goztow wrote on Sun, 22 August 2010 03:38 Ideally we'd just have a list with 8'ish serversn all with a different setup / purpose (snipe, modded, big, small). This is a good idea. One of the reasons why I don't play original C&C Renegade anymore is the sheer amount of server-side mods that most servers (all active servers?) have. Call me old fashioned, but I prefer classic Renegade gameplay with a few mods (vehicle-lock, a few other simple ones) over a lot of the crazy mods we see today. I also prefer medium games (14-20 players) over really big or really small ones. It would be good to minimize the amount of servers and get everyone focused on playing on 5-8 servers instead of the 30 or so that are online and mostly empty. More communities should consider merging players, resources, etc. and just have two or three of each server type (two sniper servers with different rules/mods, two differently modded servers, two 24 player servers and two 64 player servers).
Any super awesome accomplishment that the current Renegade community achieves will not be noticed by people who don't play the game. The only way to get more people to play the game is if you actually confront them and ask them to play. That means condensing servers, making mods, ect, will have no effect on getting people to actually start playing Renegade (again). Doing such things will only prolong the current community. I think the first step into breathing life back into this community is to work on the login system. On the official C&C forum I started a thread that teaches new players how to get online in an 8 simple step process... however people still get confused. The login system is a major deterrent when it comes to gaining new players. Once that system is fixed up and made more accessible, you would have added at least another couple years onto the community's lifespan.
Consolidating what's left of the player base would be a first step forward. But what I suggested would require as good as all communities coming together somewhere, e.g. on renforums, and make a huge deal about who hosts what. Won't happen, I'm afraid.
It's not going to happen. There's a few communities that would be worth consilidating with, but in business you learn that there's no such thing as a merger; it's always a takeover, and this would be true here, too. If MP-Gaming for example approached Crimson and said hey, we want to merge with you, I believe we would be welcomed. However, when you got down to the nitty gritty of it all, there would no doubt be problems... We have our own IRC network and opers etc, so which one should be used? We have our own forums, so which one should be used? We have our own forum moderators and permission masks, will they all be adopted? We have our own game moderators and rules, which would be used? We have our own domain, which would be the primary One used? Would the merge mean that n00bstories adopts the name MP-Gaming, or MP-Gaming ceases to exist and it becomes part of n00bstories, would perhaps there be a new name? Any sort of merge would mean losing your identity and being swallowed up. MP-Gaming actually has an APB server with a player count comparible to n00bstories, so both have something to offer eachother, but it's never going to work. One is always going to want to adopt, rather than embrace the other. The bottom line is, renegade needs more players. I keep banging on about it and boring everyone, but a WOL clone with a timed torrent release that connects to it might accomplish that. In any case, even if by some miracle it did happen, as soon as you start seeing a list of only 8 servers, someone will start there own community and put up a server.
reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 02:26 In any case, even if by some miracle it did happen, as soon as you start seeing a list of only 8 servers, someone will start there own community and put up a server. So what? Isn't the original problem the lack of players rather than the division of them?
snpr1101 wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 03:35 reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 02:26 In any case, even if by some miracle it did happen, as soon as you start seeing a list of only 8 servers, someone will start there own community and put up a server. So what? Isn't the original problem the lack of players rather than the division of them? The suggestion put forward was done so with the intention of removing so many empty servers and consolidating them and their communities. As soon as you do that, more servers will pop up (I believe the theory is that the strengthened larger, newly formed communities would then just better populate the servers that they merged with (making the new servers that pop up totally redundant), but in reality, the percent of server traffic that comes fromt he community forums is not as large as you might think, so I'd be willing to bet the theory is flawed somewhat). I agree with you that the problem is the lack of players.
Ren can be fun playing with 20 players in one server, it's less fun if there's 5 servers that compete for these 20 players and each contain 4 players. So yes: ideally you can attract new players, but consolidating player counts in a limited amount of servers would surely contribute to the fun factor (hence to attracting more players).
reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 02:45 snpr1101 wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 03:35 reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 02:26 In any case, even if by some miracle it did happen, as soon as you start seeing a list of only 8 servers, someone will start there own community and put up a server. So what? Isn't the original problem the lack of players rather than the division of them? The suggestion put forward was done so with the intention of removing so many empty servers and consolidating them and their communities. As soon as you do that, more servers will pop up (I believe the theory is that the strengthened larger, newly formed communities would then just better populate the servers that they merged with (making the new servers that pop up totally redundant), but in reality, the percent of server traffic that comes fromt he community forums is not as large as you might think, so I'd be willing to bet the theory is flawed somewhat). I agree with you that the problem is the lack of players. Servers that are empty - are empty for a reason. Merging empty servers and their staff to larger more popular servers seems pointless and asking for problems if you ask me. Why must servers and communities consolidate? I would presume that the appeal in each unique server is in itself the cause for the division of players and separate communities. Where does the necessity lie in having 10 different servers controlled by one community? Each server still serves it's purpose, they just have different names. The only necessary reason I can think of is when the current owners can no longer support their server; and so must hand it over to someone else. More players will fill empty servers and increase community numbers if they so desire to play CTF, Co-Op (insert empty server mode here). As you say, that is the main problem at hand. Whilst probably being counter-productive to the thread - Is it even worth it? Is it not enough to play with what we have and remember our 8 years of renegade with fond memories. Note that I do not mean to come across as critical, I am merely curious.
I really fail to see how merging servers will have any positive effects at all... I can only foresee it causing fights and separating everyone more than they are now. You cannot just consolidate servers. It will never work the way you want. However, you CAN consolidate communities. If you can get more of the people who visit other server forums to visit these forums, then that would help in motivating people to play more often.
snpr1101 wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 03:08 reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 02:45 snpr1101 wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 03:35 reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 02:26 In any case, even if by some miracle it did happen, as soon as you start seeing a list of only 8 servers, someone will start there own community and put up a server. So what? Isn't the original problem the lack of players rather than the division of them? The suggestion put forward was done so with the intention of removing so many empty servers and consolidating them and their communities. As soon as you do that, more servers will pop up (I believe the theory is that the strengthened larger, newly formed communities would then just better populate the servers that they merged with (making the new servers that pop up totally redundant), but in reality, the percent of server traffic that comes fromt he community forums is not as large as you might think, so I'd be willing to bet the theory is flawed somewhat). I agree with you that the problem is the lack of players. Servers that are empty - are empty for a reason. Merging empty servers and their staff to larger more popular servers seems pointless and asking for problems if you ask me. Why must servers and communities consolidate? I would presume that the appeal in each unique server is in itself the cause for the division of players and separate communities. Where does the necessity lie in having 10 different servers controlled by one community? Each server still serves it's purpose, they just have different names. The only necessary reason I can think of is when the current owners can no longer support their server; and so must hand it over to someone else. More players will fill empty servers and increase community numbers if they so desire to play CTF, Co-Op (insert empty server mode here). As you say, that is the main problem at hand. Whilst probably being counter-productive to the thread - Is it even worth it? Is it not enough to play with what we have and remember our 8 years of renegade with fond memories. Note that I do not mean to come across as critical, I am merely curious. Every server has players but they don't want to play alone so they don't play. N00bstories could easily absorb 90% of the dysfunctional servers - not that I am saying that is what we want or would even be the best course. It isn't about the name or the staff members. If they had a place to play again then in theory they would. There is some truth to empty servers are empty for a reason but that isn't nearly the whole story. For some reason server owners see that as defeat or an admission of failure. When in fact it is simply being a good owner and adapting to the times to give the players you do have an honest game. I'm not really sure at this point how some of these servers are even staying up. Who the hell pays that kind of money every month for a server to sit there idle? It's stupid too because the only two communities that are in a position to continue to sustain in Renegade are us and Jelly anyways. What servers should do is stick to what they are good at and absorb the rest in that category. An example is us and Jelly. They kick our ass at marathon but we dominate them at AOW. So we should focus on AOW on and they should focus on marathon only. But as Jelly is so happy to admit he doesn't care about Renegade. It really doesn't matter though because the people in place to do something about it are more interested in drama than the good of Renegade. No one actually gives a shit about this game so long as they can cause some drama or boost their ego.
luv2pb wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 15:22 What servers should do is stick to what they are good at and absorb the rest in that category. An example is us and Jelly. They kick our ass at marathon but we dominate them at AOW. So we should focus on AOW on and they should focus on marathon only. But as Jelly is so happy to admit he doesn't care about Renegade. It's the "absorb" part that doesn't sit well with most. Losing their own identity. But yu're right, it's their own ego getting in the way. luv2pb wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 15:22 It really doesn't matter though because the people in place to do something about it are more interested in drama than the good of Renegade. No one actually gives a shit about this game so long as they can cause some drama or boost their ego. In large, you're probably right. However, not everone is the same.
reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 13:46 luv2pb wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 15:22 What servers should do is stick to what they are good at and absorb the rest in that category. An example is us and Jelly. They kick our ass at marathon but we dominate them at AOW. So we should focus on AOW on and they should focus on marathon only. But as Jelly is so happy to admit he doesn't care about Renegade. It's the "absorb" part that doesn't sit well with most. Losing their own identity. But yu're right, it's their own ego getting in the way. Yeah, that's definitely an ego thing. If you're more concerned about losing your identity instead of giving your players a place to play, then you deserve to have an empty server. If any server owner decides they don't want to waste money anymore and want to merge into n00bstories, I'm more than willing to have the conversation. Even if you do lose some of your players to other servers because the destination server isn't quite what they like, then you're still accomplishing the goal.
Time killed Renegade, and unless we can go back in time, it will not be great again. Better graphics in games are out, better gameplay, and everything. It seems that for the most part the people who still play Renegade play it either because they have friends that they love to play the game with, and would otherwise not play with them; or they love the game in general, and are addicted to it; or are too poor to get a better game. The communities are what keep Renegade alive, not the general Renegade population. Communities working for their community, and making sure it succeeds is the best way for Renegade to stay alive. The players who play all day and sit in one server for 5+ minutes waiting for someone to join are the ones helping Renegade more than the ones discussing and planning on improving the game quite honestly. To be honest, I think that the number of players in Renegade at a time will increase when TT releases, but not because it will attract new people - but just because the new maps will make people want to keep playing, and will have them playing more. Playing and playing more is how we keep it alive. Getting it great is really a stupid suggestion honestly, because if it's not great to you at this point, then you likely don't play too much, and in turn are one of the ones killing it more than helping it. The truth hurts :/
reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 15:46 luv2pb wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 15:22 What servers should do is stick to what they are good at and absorb the rest in that category. An example is us and Jelly. They kick our ass at marathon but we dominate them at AOW. So we should focus on AOW on and they should focus on marathon only. But as Jelly is so happy to admit he doesn't care about Renegade. It's the "absorb" part that doesn't sit well with most. Losing their own identity. But yu're right, it's their own ego getting in the way. I know Crim used it but I don't like the word "merge" in this instance. It implies a partnership or joined ownership. That isn't what would happen because the servers were talking about have nothing to offer.
HaTe wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 21:14 Time killed Renegade, and unless we can go back in time, it will not be great again. Better graphics in games are out, better gameplay, and everything. It seems that for the most part the people who still play Renegade play it either because they have friends that they love to play the game with, and would otherwise not play with them; or they love the game in general, and are addicted to it; or are too poor to get a better game. The communities are what keep Renegade alive, not the general Renegade population. Communities working for their community, and making sure it succeeds is the best way for Renegade to stay alive. The players who play all day and sit in one server for 5+ minutes waiting for someone to join are the ones helping Renegade more than the ones discussing and planning on improving the game quite honestly. To be honest, I think that the number of players in Renegade at a time will increase when TT releases, but not because it will attract new people - but just because the new maps will make people want to keep playing, and will have them playing more. Playing and playing more is how we keep it alive. Getting it great is really a stupid suggestion honestly, because if it's not great to you at this point, then you likely don't play too much, and in turn are one of the ones killing it more than helping it. The truth hurts :/ I guess Renegade is like one of those sweet old vintage cars. It may not be as fuel efficient as the cars of today. It may not go as fast as the cars of today. But when you admire it's classic style and take it for a drive, you can't help but admire it and the unique niche it occupies despite the contemporary surrounds.