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my fellow brits... who're you gonna vote for?
<< lib dems. i've been saying that for some time it's a shame vince cable isn't still in charge, he was the only politician i genuinely liked. nick clegg's a good guy though. gordon brown can say whatever he wants, he breaks more promises than he keeps and half the stuff he does has no relation at all to what he said he would do. cameron is not quite so uncharismatic (and dishonest) as brown but the policies aren't exactly radically different.
Re: my fellow brits... who're you gonna vote for?
I will deffinately vote, but it'll probably be a "protest vote".
Lib dems. Won that debate hands down. Also have a sensible policy that solves the jobs shortage, helps the economy (create jobs -> get taxes) and helps the enviroment all in go. Common sense if you ask me. (For the curious, they intend to create lots of jobs designing/building wind farms etc)
can someone post their full program? they sound interesting
Full manifesto.
halfway through... sounds very very votable so far. wish we had such a party in germany.
CarrierII wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 03:10 (create jobs -> get taxes) Man, I wish the United States had a political party sensible enough not to be afraid of taxes.
Taxes are evil!
reborn wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 02:48 I will deffinately vote, but it'll probably be a "protest vote". remember last election time, everyone said voter apathy was going to be the problem? and it was, really... very small turnout. i predict that we're about to have the biggest voter turnout in recent british electoral history.
Spoony wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 16:41 reborn wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 02:48 I will deffinately vote, but it'll probably be a "protest vote". remember last election time, everyone said voter apathy was going to be the problem? and it was, really... very small turnout. i predict that we're about to have the biggest voter turnout in recent british electoral history. A "None of the above" option? I liked that idea.
Spoony wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 11:41 remember last election time, everyone said voter apathy was going to be the problem? and it was, really... very small turnout. i predict that we're about to have the biggest voter turnout in recent british electoral history. How does that affect whether someone should use their vote as a protest or not?
CarrierII wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 08:07 Taxes are evil! But libraries and public education and roads are good thing.
I am probably going to vote Lib Dem myself, but I will be doing more research into each of the parties before the elections come around. Bit busy with university work right now. Thought it was funny how Gordon Clown jumped on Nick Cleggs coat tails in the debate once he realised the audience were responding favourably to him... I notice one of the recent polls has the Lib Dems with a higher vote share than both Labour and the Conservatives, something like 33% against 31% for the Conservatives and 27% for Labour. Makes a change, hopefully it will convince people that a vote for the Lib Dems is not a wasted vote and they stand a real chance of winning a substantial proportion of the seats.
danpaul88 wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 18:53 I am probably going to vote Lib Dem myself, but I will be doing more research into each of the parties before the elections come around. Bit busy with university work right now. Thought it was funny how Gordon Clown jumped on Nick Cleggs coat tails in the debate once he realised the audience were responding favourably to him... I notice one of the recent polls has the Lib Dems with a higher vote share than both Labour and the Conservatives, something like 33% against 31% for the Conservatives and 27% for Labour. Makes a change, hopefully it will convince people that a vote for the Lib Dems is not a wasted vote and they stand a real chance of winning a substantial proportion of the seats. But they don't, because the ratio of people to MP varies between MPs. It's not a very good system.
British National Party (in all seriousness, if I were British, I'd go for whichever party gets rid of England's retarded nazi-ism and the overly religious hold on government)
GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 11:30 (in all seriousness, if I were British, I'd go for whichever party gets rid of England's retarded nazi-ism and the overly religious hold on government) I'm not sure even you know exactly what you're trying to say here.
Dover wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 13:49 GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 11:30 (in all seriousness, if I were British, I'd go for whichever party gets rid of England's retarded nazi-ism and the overly religious hold on government) I'm not sure even you know exactly what you're trying to say here. The big brother-esque feel of England's government is pretty bad from what I hear. The religion part should be a given. Willing to bet the right-wing of England is the cause of both :\
HaTe wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 12:11 I vote Obama invades Britain. Win-win. Even George Zimmer agrees with me on this one.
Cameron's position is probably the best of the worst for Britain in the long term. He's a smooth operator compared to Brown, who's sulkiness reminds me way too much of the leftist leaders in our country a few years ago; all they could do was complain. He's also candid enough to admit that England's society is broken, something that few politicians are willing to say. However, whether he has the stomach to actually tackle the bureaucratic, overreaching nightmare that is the English government, and decentralize the federal government remains to seen. Still, Cameron just seems too middling in his policies. He'd probably prefer to head more to the right, but then there's that awful shadow of Maggie hanging over him. Her brand of conservatism probably ruined any chance of a real conservative government in England for at least 50 years. Cameron would be wise to look to, and consult Canada's Conservative government, just as Sarkozy did, before he sold out. I'm happy to see the Liberal-Democrats taking a good share in the polls. Having a power-broker in Parliament is always a good thing, unless of course you live in Canada, and that power-broker is dedicated to separating from the country.
danpaul88 wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 12:53 Thought it was funny how Gordon Clown jumped on Nick Cleggs coat tails in the debate once he realised the audience were responding favourably to him... for me, the high point of the debate was gordon brown totally embarrass himself about parliament reform. "nick, do you support my plans for reforming the houses?" "i proposed the reforms last week dumbass, you blocked them" "answer the question nick, do you support me in this?" gordon clearly didn't realise what a prick he made himself look there Quote: British National Party Thumbs Up (in all seriousness, if I were British, I'd go for whichever party gets rid of England's retarded nazi-ism and the overly religious hold on government) that would probably be the lib dems too. labour under brown have permitted sharia law courts and huge numbers of faith schools. the conservatives want more faith schools but specifically christian ones. the BNP are even more christian than that, but that's fascism for you. the RESPECT party may as well call itself dhimmis-R-us. nick clegg's an atheist and clearly wasn't too comfortable in admitting it (though it's not as bad as it is in america), and i don't recall the lib dems proposing any surrender of our democratic principles, free speech etc to religious bullying like we've had almost non-stop for years.
I can't vote as I'm not old enough yet (im 16) But if I could I'd be backing the lib dems/labour..still unsure. They both seam a hell of alot better than the Cons. After finishing watching the general lection debate (about 5mins ago). I decided that the Cons jus want to take funding out of shit and put is in a worse position. I was initially backing Labour but hearing the policies of the Lib Dems have swayed me to neutral between the two. I'm unsure now
Its nice to see that you guys aren't apathetic towards politics, that would greatly help when the time comes for me to set foot in the UK
they do sneaky things an defeat libdems like da republican and demo monkeyes do to all #3 parties
bunka wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 00:34 they do sneaky things an defeat libdems like da republican and demo monkeyes do to all #3 parties what the fuck are you talking about?
I don't know, I tempted to remove the post on account of it being half-baked.
CarrierII wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 15:57 I don't know, I tempted to remove the post on account of it being half-baked. The post itself is half-baked, or the poster? It is 4/20 after all.
nikki6ixx wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 23:01 CarrierII wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 15:57 I don't know, I tempted to remove the post on account of it being half-baked. The post itself is half-baked, or the poster? It is 4/20 after all. Dohohoho.
GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 12:07 Dover wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 13:49 GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 11:30 (in all seriousness, if I were British, I'd go for whichever party gets rid of England's retarded nazi-ism and the overly religious hold on government) I'm not sure even you know exactly what you're trying to say here. The big brother-esque feel of England's government is pretty bad from what I hear. The religion part should be a given. Willing to bet the right-wing of England is the cause of both :\ "big brother-esque feel"? That doesn't answer anything. What does that mean?
Dover wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 20:31 GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 12:07 Dover wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 13:49 GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 11:30 (in all seriousness, if I were British, I'd go for whichever party gets rid of England's retarded nazi-ism and the overly religious hold on government) I'm not sure even you know exactly what you're trying to say here. The big brother-esque feel of England's government is pretty bad from what I hear. The religion part should be a given. Willing to bet the right-wing of England is the cause of both :\ "big brother-esque feel"? That doesn't answer anything. What does that mean? I can't really put it any other way. I figured it's kind of obvious what I mean, but apparently not. Go read 1984.
GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 19:26 Dover wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 20:31 GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 12:07 Dover wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 13:49 GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 11:30 (in all seriousness, if I were British, I'd go for whichever party gets rid of England's retarded nazi-ism and the overly religious hold on government) I'm not sure even you know exactly what you're trying to say here. The big brother-esque feel of England's government is pretty bad from what I hear. The religion part should be a given. Willing to bet the right-wing of England is the cause of both :\ "big brother-esque feel"? That doesn't answer anything. What does that mean? I can't really put it any other way. I figured it's kind of obvious what I mean, but apparently not. Go read 1984. What I mean to ask is what your specific grievences are, not what "big brother" means. What is the government doing specifically that you have a problem with?
GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 11:32 bunka wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 00:34 they do sneaky things an defeat libdems like da republican and demo monkeyes do to all #3 parties what the fuck are you talking about? hmmmm mean. what i say is that they do everything and stay in power. Dover wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 21:53 GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 19:26 Dover wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 20:31 GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 12:07 Dover wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 13:49 GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 11:30 (in all seriousness, if I were British, I'd go for whichever party gets rid of England's retarded nazi-ism and the overly religious hold on government) I'm not sure even you know exactly what you're trying to say here. The big brother-esque feel of England's government is pretty bad from what I hear. The religion part should be a given. Willing to bet the right-wing of England is the cause of both :\ "big brother-esque feel"? That doesn't answer anything. What does that mean? I can't really put it any other way. I figured it's kind of obvious what I mean, but apparently not. Go read 1984. What I mean to ask is what your specific grievences are, not what "big brother" means. What is the government doing specifically that you have a problem with? photo database fingerprint database dna database (for criminals only but why 3.4 million ppl here?) general database (u protest in street u go in this DB with pic) is for eveeryone also innocent peoples in UK. what da fucking??? not needeed. photo/fingerprint/general database exists at USSA too but dunno if dna database exists. how i know? cos I saw it! CCTV everywhere (fight crime my COOOOOOOOOOOOOCK!) CCTV that recorder speech microschips in shitcans - monitor recycling (nice lie!!!) council officeer vermins that enters ur home an they not have court order all webtracking ----- online buying email phone monitoring (done in USSA tooo) oh an more chips --- listening devices an microphones eveywhere. tooo many spying. not only not needed but whole society taking wrong route to hell. maybe 1 thing left is renaming UK to airstrip 1. oh and da excusse is help law enforcement aahhahaaa joke!!. excuse not fly. also yes: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/big-brother-britain-2006-we-are-wakin g-up-to-a-surveillance-society-all-around-us-422561.html bye
Dover wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 21:53 What I mean to ask is what your specific grievences are, not what "big brother" means. What is the government doing specifically that you have a problem with? Cameras everywhere, shittons of databases, general government interference with people's lives, etc.
GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 21:24 Cameras everywhere In public places? Oh noez! GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 21:24 shittons of databases Which are nothing more than more efficient versions of the shittons of files on paper we have here in the United States. GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 21:24 general government interference with people's lives, etc. The perfect answer when I ask for specific grievances. bunka wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 21:17 photo database fingerprint database dna database (for criminals only but why 3.4 million ppl here?) general database (u protest in street u go in this DB with pic) is for eveeryone also innocent peoples in UK. what da fucking??? not needeed. photo/fingerprint/general database exists at USSA too but dunno if dna database exists. how i know? cos I saw it! CCTV everywhere (fight crime my COOOOOOOOOOOOOCK!) CCTV that recorder speech microschips in shitcans - monitor recycling (nice lie!!!) council officeer vermins that enters ur home an they not have court order all webtracking ----- online buying email phone monitoring (done in USSA tooo) oh an more chips --- listening devices an microphones eveywhere. tooo many spying. not only not needed but whole society taking wrong route to hell. maybe 1 thing left is renaming UK to airstrip 1. oh and da excusse is help law enforcement aahhahaaa joke!!. excuse not fly. also yes: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/big-brother-britain-2006-we-are-wakin g-up-to-a-surveillance-society-all-around-us-422561.html bye This is all stuff that's used by law enforcement in most all developed countries. The only difference is you seem to have some kind of conspiracy theory spin on it.
there's no need for conspiracy theory "spin", we have been flat out lied to about this stuff. my fellow brits will probably remember us being cheerfully told that the new anti-terror laws were necessary and they'd only be used for combating terrorism, don't worry. what a steaming pile of horseshit THAT turned out to be. y'know how worked up americans got over wiretapping? well, america has been tapping OUR phones for decades (look up Menwith Hill) it might be possible to stomach if the government actually gave a shit about real crimes, but even with the most invasive society this side of north korea and more police than we've ever had in our history, they can't seem to prevent violent crime, burglary etc. as for george zimmer's it-must-have-been-the-right-wing-who-caused-all-this... well, depends whether you still think new labour are left wing.
Dover: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/21/traffic-cameras-used.html http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/19/breaking-leaked-uk-g.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8032367.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7484131.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7370025.stm i suspect that the native britishs on the forum can dig up a lot more.
Spoony wrote on Wed, 21 April 2010 00:36 there's no need for conspiracy theory "spin", we have been flat out lied to about this stuff. my fellow brits will probably remember us being cheerfully told that the new anti-terror laws were necessary and they'd only be used for combating terrorism, don't worry. what a steaming pile of horseshit THAT turned out to be. y'know how worked up americans got over wiretapping? well, america has been tapping OUR phones for decades (look up Menwith Hill) it might be possible to stomach if the government actually gave a shit about real crimes, but even with the most invasive society this side of north korea and more police than we've ever had in our history, they can't seem to prevent violent crime, burglary etc. as for george zimmer's it-must-have-been-the-right-wing-who-caused-all-this... well, depends whether you still think new labour are left wing. Ziggy Sobotka wrote on Wed, 21 April 2010 05:24 Dover: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/21/traffic-cameras-used.html http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/19/breaking-leaked-uk-g.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8032367.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7484131.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7370025.stm i suspect that the native britishs on the forum can dig up a lot more. Call me jaded, but this is all stuff I'd come to expect and consider normal from the United States, self-proclaimed FREEST COUNTRY EVER!!1! I'd attribute this more to the changing world we live in, rather than some kind of conspiracy to turn the UK into Airstrip 3.
well, either way, it's the least regard for individual freedoms combined with the lowest competence at crime prevention... worst of both worlds. you usually expect a government to get at least one of the above right at the expense of the other... our government is pathetic in both categories.
Spoony wrote on Wed, 21 April 2010 11:11 well, either way, it's the least regard for individual freedoms combined with the lowest competence at crime prevention... worst of both worlds. you usually expect a government to get at least one of the above right at the expense of the other... our government is pathetic in both categories. This is kinda what I meant, yes. I didn't know they sucked at stopping crimes, too, though. That sucks pretty hard. Hope England gets someone who can fix that shit :\
I can't remember which council it was, but down south they used anti-terror laws to check whether people were recycling properly =/ I'm definitely not voting Labour, but I'm unsure from there. Lib dem has definitely made some ground, but I'm unsure whether they are ready for government. Either way, it will be an englishman, I'm sick of the scottish pissing my country up the wall. Labour has been a cancer for many years, lets get rid of it, one way or another. I'm going to be watching the other two televised debates, ready to watch them all squirm over the price of petrol. It's getting ridiculous now, I'm sure its some where near 90-95p of it is tax.. Talk about severely handicapping its own people and economy...
i think i recall the terror/recycling incident you mean, unless there was more than one case... which there almost certainly was. ironically some of bin laden's videos urge us to be greener. they also used anti-terror laws to freeze iceland's financial assets (probably what pissed them off enough to launch the superweapon at us). as for not wanting a scotsman in charge of the economy, judging by brown's extravagance i frankly doubt he's scottish at all.
The DNA database held the details of a Conserative MP, a Mr Damien Green, IIRC... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8210399.stm He was arrested over a potential leak. Charges dropped => He's innocent. We still (pretend to) operate under "Innocent until proven guilty" so the Police have no right to store his details anymore. They kept them for as long as possible, then only removed them because he was a prominent Tory MP.
Spoony wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 01:45 i think i recall the terror/recycling incident you mean, unless there was more than one case... which there almost certainly was. I wouldn't be surprised. I started driving nearly four years ago. Normal unleaded prices were around the 72.9 mark. Now the same station is 119.9. It's a disgrace.
Tiesto wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 09:38 I started driving nearly four years ago. Normal unleaded prices were around the 72.9 mark. Now the same station is 119.9. It's a disgrace. Four years ago, gas prices in the US were half of what they are now. This is -normal-. This doesn't mean there's some kind of crazy conspiricy in the UK. If your country is going to shit, it's going to shit at the same rate the rest of the world is going to shit.
Dover wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 12:54 Tiesto wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 09:38 I started driving nearly four years ago. Normal unleaded prices were around the 72.9 mark. Now the same station is 119.9. It's a disgrace. Four years ago, gas prices in the US were half of what they are now. This is -normal-. This doesn't mean there's some kind of crazy conspiricy in the UK. If your country is going to shit, it's going to shit at the same rate the rest of the world is going to shit. To be fair, if there is a conspiracy of any sort, then the US and UK are probably both in on it, then... anyone who actually believes conspiracies of that magnitude exist are pretty retarded, though
I just can't vote, and I won't. Each of them are just hiding behind lies. I get the "well your vote will could win the best party into power" and my response is always "my vote could also count towards the worse". Since we don't know what they are actually going to do, we only see their posters stating anything we want to hear. So we might think we are voting for a good party, and in fact we just voted another Gordan Brown or Tony Blair into power.
Curious, can you guys vote for a random person? If so, vote for George Washington if you're undecided. Oh man that'd be hilarious.
No, we get a ballot paper like this: [Party X - Candidate Y] [ ] [Monster Raving Loony Party - Ex-Leader's Cat] [ ]
CarrierII wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 15:19 No, we get a ballot paper like this: [Party X - Candidate Y] [ ] [Monster Raving Loony Party - Ex-Leader's Cat] [ ] Oh, balls. That sucks. Atleast in the US, you can vote for Mickey Mouse if you so badly want to. Oh well.
GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 15:33 CarrierII wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 15:19 No, we get a ballot paper like this: [Party X - Candidate Y] [ ] [Monster Raving Loony Party - Ex-Leader's Cat] [ ] Oh, balls. That sucks. Atleast in the US, you can vote for Mickey Mouse if you so badly want to. Oh well. Kinda like voting for Nader. Only less funny.
Dover wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 12:54 Tiesto wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 09:38 I started driving nearly four years ago. Normal unleaded prices were around the 72.9 mark. Now the same station is 119.9. It's a disgrace. Four years ago, gas prices in the US were half of what they are now. This is -normal-. This doesn't mean there's some kind of crazy conspiricy in the UK. If your country is going to shit, it's going to shit at the same rate the rest of the world is going to shit. i'm not sure that the rate at which petrol is taxed here is technically a conspiracy, but it certainly is crazy. same rate as the rest of europe, more or less (at least i think the western european countries like france have a similar deal), not the same as the rest of the world. i was talking to some american friends a couple of years back, they were whining about it going up to $3 USD/gallon i think. got the calculator out, turns out we were paying the equivalent of $9 USD/gallon, and it's higher than that now. but then you don't have a national health service, and your immigrants generally work, don't they?
Dover wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 18:54 Tiesto wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 09:38 I started driving nearly four years ago. Normal unleaded prices were around the 72.9 mark. Now the same station is 119.9. It's a disgrace. Four years ago, gas prices in the US were half of what they are now. This is -normal-. This doesn't mean there's some kind of crazy conspiricy in the UK. If your country is going to shit, it's going to shit at the same rate the rest of the world is going to shit. No the issue is that 90-95p of it is tax... If all the tax was taken out, we would have the cheapest fuel in Europe, but with tax added on, its one of the most expensive. We pay alot in various taxes, we pay taxes on alcohol etc etc. We don't get alot for all these taxes..
Spoony wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 14:19 Dover wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 12:54 Tiesto wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 09:38 I started driving nearly four years ago. Normal unleaded prices were around the 72.9 mark. Now the same station is 119.9. It's a disgrace. Four years ago, gas prices in the US were half of what they are now. This is -normal-. This doesn't mean there's some kind of crazy conspiricy in the UK. If your country is going to shit, it's going to shit at the same rate the rest of the world is going to shit. i'm not sure that the rate at which petrol is taxed here is technically a conspiracy, but it certainly is crazy. same rate as the rest of europe, more or less (at least i think the western european countries like france have a similar deal), not the same as the rest of the world. i was talking to some american friends a couple of years back, they were whining about it going up to $3 USD/gallon i think. got the calculator out, turns out we were paying the equivalent of $9 USD/gallon, and it's higher than that now. but then you don't have a national health service, and your immigrants generally work, don't they? It's about 3 USD/gallon now, yeah. At it's peak it was 4.50 or so, but a decade ago it was barely over a dollar. I don't know what gas prices in the UK are now compared to what they are then, but from what I understand absolute wages are higher there than they are here, and the British Pound is so much stronger than the US Dollar, so I'm sure it all balances out in the end. No, we don't have a real national health service. And most of our immigrants work, yeah. Tiesto wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 15:13 Dover wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 18:54 Tiesto wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 09:38 I started driving nearly four years ago. Normal unleaded prices were around the 72.9 mark. Now the same station is 119.9. It's a disgrace. Four years ago, gas prices in the US were half of what they are now. This is -normal-. This doesn't mean there's some kind of crazy conspiricy in the UK. If your country is going to shit, it's going to shit at the same rate the rest of the world is going to shit. No the issue is that 90-95p of it is tax... If all the tax was taken out, we would have the cheapest fuel in Europe, but with tax added on, its one of the most expensive. We pay alot in various taxes, we pay taxes on alcohol etc etc. We don't get alot for all these taxes.. Also -normal-. In the US we play three seperate taxes on gas at the local, state, and national level. Nobody notices or cares because all they see is the price on the big sign outside the station. We also pay taxes on alchohol and cigarettes and a thousand other things. This is -normal-. And from what I understand health care is free in the UK, while here in the US we have people going broke because of doctors bills.
Dover wrote on Thu, 22 April 2010 23:56 It's about 3 USD/gallon now, yeah. At it's peak it was 4.50 or so, but a decade ago it was barely over a dollar. I don't know what gas prices in the UK are now compared to what they are then Tiesto is correct. It's about £1.20/litre now, was about £1 at the time (the £1/litre mark seemed to be a kind of symbolic marker they didn't want to break, but once they did, they didn't fucking stop). Quote: but from what I understand absolute wages are higher there than they are here I don't really doubt that. Quote: and the British Pound is so much stronger than the US Dollar, so I'm sure it all balances out in the end. If the pound is stronger than the US dollar then this is probably quite a recent thing... not long ago the pound was in the gutter (but so was the dollar). Quote: No, we don't have a real national health service. And most of our immigrants work, yeah. well, that's two huge differences right there. Quote: Also -normal-. In the US we play three seperate taxes on gas at the local, state, and national level. But neither the tax rate nor the tax proportion, are anywhere near as high, I'll wager. Quote: Nobody notices or cares because all they see is the price on the big sign outside the station. Interesting point, I'll come back to that very shortly... Quote: And from what I understand health care is free in the UK, while here in the US we have people going broke because of doctors bills. Free in the sense that it's paid for by huge levels of tax. I think I read a while ago that it works out as something like £2000/year per adult (I'd be interested to hear how much does the average American adult pay for health insurance?). So your earlier point... all they see is the price on the sign? well, you're not seeing the enormous cost of UK healthcare. I might add that it's also in a terrible state. When the American healthcare debate really started to kick off, I was talking to an American friend about it. Coincidentally we both had a similar operation recently - in my case arthroscopic knee surgery, in his case it was a leg tendon or something. In his case he said something like: i saw the doctor on monday, had an x-ray on tuesday, booked the operation on thursday, and we were making love on friday and saturday, we chilled on sunday (sorry, went a bit off track there). in my case it was more like: saw a doctor in january, booked an x-ray in march, saw another doctor in june, booked another x-ray in december, had surgery the next june. now that was for a condition which meant i couldn't run or do anything particularly active, and walking was a rather slow affair (though oddly enough, driving was fine)... admittedly not lifethreatening though. imagine if you had a lifethreatening disease, cancer or something. where would you rather get treatment?
Spoony wrote on Fri, 23 April 2010 07:38 in my case it was more like: saw a doctor in january, booked an x-ray in march, saw another doctor in june, booked another x-ray in december, had surgery the next june. Don't know what hospital you went to but where I work they do x-rays the same day as you see the consultant. As well as the fact that in the NHS if a patient is listed for an operation they must have the treatment within 18 weeks, longer than that, staff start getting punished (even sacked). The NHS is very good in my opinion, however with the enormous amount of patients and stretched budgets, you are unlikely to be seen about a non-life threatening problem fairly urgently. Private hospitals have short waiting times because not a lot of people want to get health insurance or pay the fees.
my brother had a life-threatening illness and he didn't get seen to much quicker than i did.
those are irrelevant anecdotes. Want me to get some out for the american system? Dont kid yourself, most health systems in the world are flawed, and hugely so. also, the prizes you describe are normal for most of europe. The problem isnt the high taxes, its the fact that same tax money doesnt get spent properly.
Ziggy Sobotka wrote on Fri, 23 April 2010 08:29 those are irrelevant anecdotes. Want me to get some out for the american system? Dont kid yourself, most health systems in the world are flawed, and hugely so. 'Irrelevant' is an odd word to use... Quote: The problem isnt the high taxes, its the fact that same tax money doesnt get spent properly. in what sense does the second problem mean the first thing isn't a problem too?
Spoony wrote on Sat, 24 April 2010 03:13 Ziggy Sobotka wrote on Fri, 23 April 2010 08:29 those are irrelevant anecdotes. Want me to get some out for the american system? Dont kid yourself, most health systems in the world are flawed, and hugely so. 'Irrelevant' is an odd word to use... I'm sorry for what happened to you and especially whatever may have happened to your brother. But I have heard the story about long waiting times from people from just about every country, be it canada, america, the uk, or germany, or france. It's something that ought to be fixed, but it won't be by introducing the american system in the uk. (if that is what you think ought to happen. What exactly is your position?) Quote: Quote: The problem isnt the high taxes, its the fact that same tax money doesnt get spent properly. in what sense does the second problem mean the first thing isn't a problem too? Matter of opinion I suppose. I simply dont see anything wrong with a commodity whose dependance on also happens to be one of our bigger problems being taxed very high. The prize is roughly the same in Germany btw.
Ziggy Sobotka wrote on Sat, 24 April 2010 11:50 I'm sorry for what happened to you and especially whatever may have happened to your brother. But I have heard the story about long waiting times from people from just about every country, be it canada, america, the uk, or germany, or france. It's something that ought to be fixed, but it won't be by introducing the american system in the uk. (if that is what you think ought to happen. What exactly is your position?) i'm not at all sure what is my overall position on healthcare, which is why i've criticised both socialised and US-style systems. also france's healthcare is much better than the UK's. Quote: Matter of opinion I suppose. I simply dont see anything wrong with a commodity whose dependance on also happens to be one of our bigger problems being taxed very high. The prize is roughly the same in Germany btw. the tax on petrol isn't some attempt to address our dependency upon it, it's a capitalisation on our dependency on it. the reason the tax on petrol goes up and up and up is precisely because we can't stop buying it. they're not trying to make us buy less, they're taking advantage of the fact we buy so much.
Spoony wrote on Sat, 24 April 2010 08:51 also france's healthcare is much better than the UK's. very agreeable. Quote: Quote: Matter of opinion I suppose. I simply dont see anything wrong with a commodity whose dependance on also happens to be one of our bigger problems being taxed very high. The prize is roughly the same in Germany btw. the tax on petrol isn't some attempt to address our dependency upon it, it's a capitalisation on our dependency on it. the reason the tax on petrol goes up and up and up is precisely because we can't stop buying it. they're not trying to make us buy less, they're taking advantage of the fact we buy so much. How dense/affordable is your public transportation net?
Public transport in the South East: Outside the cities (IE, Brighton, which has a fantastic bus service): Density - easily less than half served by meaningful (More than twice a day, I'm not joking!) bus service. Easily less than a third served by train (Although that's not really gov't's fault, there's a lot of hills round here). Price: It's cheaper to drive provided parking is free (it mostly is), although my car scores 52 MPG, which is a little higher than all but the latest ranges (despite being 11.5 years old. ) My mother, for example, would have to catch a train (1/2 hour journey every 1/2 hour), and then a bus (1 hour journey, poor reliability, theoretically once every 1/2 hour) to get to where she works (40 miles away)... and she works in... *drumroll* a community hospital. Perfect figurative example, TBH. My Dad takes the train, but then he works in London.
Public transport in the UK outside of the major cities is a joke. For me to get to university from here would involve over an hour travelling on two buses and about 20 minutes of walking to and from bus stops.... and the university is less than 10 miles down the road! Plus the bus tickets are an absolute rip off.... I can drive to university in about 10-15 minutes, depending on time of day and traffic and park for free in university car park. Shame about the carbon emissions and such, but I am not prepared to spend a fortune on public transport and waste hours of my time travelling on buses.... or waiting for buses that don't ever turn up... when it's so much easier to drive. Public transport has failed in this instance.
danpaul88 wrote on Sat, 24 April 2010 17:43 Public transport in the UK outside of the major cities is a joke. For me to get to university from here would involve over an hour travelling on two buses and about 20 minutes of walking to and from bus stops.... and the university is less than 10 miles down the road! Plus the bus tickets are an absolute rip off.... I can drive to university in about 10-15 minutes, depending on time of day and traffic and park for free in university car park. Shame about the carbon emissions and such, but I am not prepared to spend a fortune on public transport and waste hours of my time travelling on buses.... or waiting for buses that don't ever turn up... when it's so much easier to drive. Public transport has failed in this instance. Public transportation outside major cities -everywhere- is a joke. Public transportation is only feasible with a high population density (read: major cities). Public transportation in Los Angeles is a joke too, but it's pretty hard for it to be any other way since the greater LA area covers tens of thousands of square miles.
Dover wrote on Sat, 24 April 2010 23:27 Public transportation outside major cities -everywhere- is a joke. Public transportation is only feasible with a high population density (read: major cities). Public transportation in Los Angeles is a joke too, but it's pretty hard for it to be any other way since the greater LA area covers tens of thousands of square miles. give a specific number for high population density.
Ziggy Sobotka wrote on Sun, 25 April 2010 04:44 Dover wrote on Sat, 24 April 2010 23:27 Public transportation outside major cities -everywhere- is a joke. Public transportation is only feasible with a high population density (read: major cities). Public transportation in Los Angeles is a joke too, but it's pretty hard for it to be any other way since the greater LA area covers tens of thousands of square miles. give a specific number for high population density. Can't be bothered.
None of the parties have all the answers but i find "i agree with Nick" on more things than not. 1st Debate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0QsSoV0SRo 2nd Debate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqis1mkS2CE LibDems all the way.
I see Gordon Clown has deployed the foot gun.... News Article
Ouch...that's gotta hurt with the elections so near...!
You brits would of heard about what Gordan Brown said in the car after talking to that old lady? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFl_evwML2M
That was what Spoony's Danpaul's link was, goodbye Labour! Edit - I'm going to go hide in corner now.
thats no spoony... thats a danpaul! edit: can i see the second debate online anywhere?
i have an odd vision of cameron making a quick video saying gordon brown ought to be ashamed of himself... then getting into a car and driving off. we then hear "did you really think that david?" "whatever, i struggle to mask my contempt when i talk to the ordinaries"
Lib Dems have some funny ideas about jail terms. Sentences under 6 months to be scrapped? I know that there is material that suggests that these 6 months sentences are counter productive, but how can you justify letting so many people escape jail time? There's a few other policies I do not like about the Lib Dems (EU anyone?). Labour breaks more promises than it keeps, I cannot trust them. Plus, I hate this top heavy tier of free loaders in my country that Labour have created and supported. Conservatives would scrap allot of police jobs, and I feel we need more, and not just these hippy youth "community support officers", I mean real police officers. I don't like their anti union ideas, and they seem to have it in for the NHS. I have real concerns about all of the top three parties policies, therefore I think I'm seriously going to go for a "protest vote".
protest vote for who, then? is there a smaller party you prefer? UKIP, perhaps?
Spoony wrote on Mon, 03 May 2010 14:17 protest vote for who, then? is there a smaller party you prefer? UKIP, perhaps? Probably, I really like most of their policies, especially on crime, the economy, welfare, education and the defense. Specifically on immigration, I think they've nailed it. Their policies are what I would like to see happen, however unlikely... If UKIP gained a significant enough share of the vote, then the party that gained power might take them seriously and actually look at what they're saying.
Oh, you guys still have smaller parties? Vote for one of them if you dislike both, it's not that hard...
Patrick Stewart, greatest Englishman to ever live, supports the Labor Party. I think that's enough said.
If Patrick Stewart supported the Labor Party, it should be high time he started caring more about Brit politics.
GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Mon, 03 May 2010 18:13 Oh, you guys still have smaller parties? Vote for one of them if you dislike both, it's not that hard... yes. i've said many times that america has a better political system than we do, but in this regard, we're better off.
Back from the polling station. Any Brits not voting?
You only just voted today Spoony? Shame on you, I voted by post last week
my parents did that too cos they're on holiday now. trouble with that is something colossal might happen between then and the election.
so who'd you vote for? lib dems i assume?
I voted around 6 o'clock, it's hard to grab time to go out the house at the moment, so very pleased I was able to make the time. I voted for UKIP in the general election, but couldn't bring myself to vote for anyone in the local election. Shame really, I was there with the paper in my hand and a pencil, but none of them was worth the effort. I was tempted to chuck a vote in the local One to the BNP just as a Two fingers to the rest, but I couldn't live with myself if I did.
reborn wrote on Thu, 06 May 2010 21:31 I was tempted to chuck a vote in the local One to the BNP just as a Two fingers to the rest, but I couldn't live with myself if I did. YOU SHOULD HAVE :[
They're fundamentally racist, and biggots. They try hard to appear as a decent party, but underneith it they really are racist. What they stand for isn't what I believe in. I would feel like I betrayed myself if I voted for them. Immigration is bad in this country, but it's not worth wasting a vote on the BNP for just One issue trying to get the subject more stern attention. Besides, I believe any amount of votes they get would be ignored by the other parties (for various reasons), but they may take note of votes for UKIP.
I would have voted UKIP. Seems they're very similar to the Constitution party here in the U.S.
reborn wrote on Thu, 06 May 2010 16:27 They're fundamentally racist, and biggots. They try hard to appear as a decent party, but underneith it they really are racist. What they stand for isn't what I believe in. I would feel like I betrayed myself if I voted for them. Immigration is bad in this country, but it's not worth wasting a vote on the BNP for just One issue trying to get the subject more stern attention. Besides, I believe any amount of votes they get would be ignored by the other parties (for various reasons), but they may take note of votes for UKIP. Oh, obviously. But it'd still be hilarious to see an obviously racist party even get more than 3 votes. On a serious note though, I hope more parties come into play for England. Maybe America would follow suit. It'd be nice to not have the same old two important parties, and every other party is just "a third party"
And yet again we see how screwed up the UK electoral system is. The Lib Dems (at time of writing this, 36 seats are yet to declare results) have 23% of the total votes, yet they have less than 10% of the actual seats (51 / 650). The Labour party, with just 6% more of the vote (29%), has 500% more seats than the Lib Dems, with 245 (over 35%). Absolutely ridiculous.
reborn wrote on Mon, 03 May 2010 18:30 Lib Dems have some funny ideas about jail terms. Sentences under 6 months to be scrapped? I know that there is material that suggests that these 6 months sentences are counter productive, but how can you justify letting so many people escape jail time? In Belgium, sentences under 3 years are hardly ever done simply due to a lack of jails. So 6 months seemsvery reasonable to me . But then again we have no waiting lines at all for healthcare .
Goztow wrote on Fri, 07 May 2010 10:15 reborn wrote on Mon, 03 May 2010 18:30 Lib Dems have some funny ideas about jail terms. Sentences under 6 months to be scrapped? I know that there is material that suggests that these 6 months sentences are counter productive, but how can you justify letting so many people escape jail time? In Belgium, sentences under 3 years are hardly ever done simply due to a lack of jails. So 6 months seemsvery reasonable to me . But then again we have no waiting lines at all for healthcare . Well it's hard to form a waiting line in a non-country which clearly has a non-population xD (For anyone who doesn't understand this comment, it's a joke made in reference to this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFRFA4wlVj8)
Yeah, I live in a non country, that must mean I'm a non person!
Goztow wrote on Fri, 07 May 2010 10:39 Yeah, I live in a non country, that must mean I'm a non person! And therefore a non-moderator.... oh no, don't let the spammers know, we will be drowned under a sea of spam Oo
GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Fri, 07 May 2010 00:59 Maybe America would follow suit. It'd be nice to not have the same old two important parties, and every other party is just "a third party" lol. danpaul88 wrote on Fri, 07 May 2010 02:19 (For anyone who doesn't understand this comment, it's a joke made in reference to this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFRFA4wlVj8) Wow, that guy's a dick. >:[
least the greens got one in brighton. apart from that - disaster.