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I don' think this thread'll go very far but who knows... Does anyone play Guitar Hero: World Tour for the Wii? I'd like to get some Band's codes on there since the matchmaking mode is unreliable and slow.
I do but I'm not sure what you are asking for tbh.
People still play any of the Guitar Heroes after Rock Band came out?
We're actually considering returning our GH:WT because the danged drums broke. So this thread might get derailed by myself... @luv2pb: You can manage a friends-list on the game to find people to play with over the Nintendo Wifi.
Dover wrote on Thu, 31 December 2009 16:17 People still play any of the Guitar Heroes after Rock Band came out? Yes because Guitar Hero is much better than Rock Band. They may look the same on the surface but there is a world of in game options available in Guitar Hero that are annoyingly absent in Rock Band 2. I don't have WT for Wii, I only have them for Xbox. I actually did have problems with my drumset when I first got it (someone ripped the 3.5mm wire from the yellow cymbal) and I RMAed it. Anyway, for those that don't understand, Wii asks you for friend codes from other Wii owners when you want to play multiplayer. So he is asking people here to share them so he can play online with them.
Altzan wrote on Thu, 31 December 2009 18:20 We're actually considering returning our GH:WT because the danged drums broke. So this thread might get derailed by myself... @luv2pb: You can manage a friends-list on the game to find people to play with over the Nintendo Wifi. oh ok, I see what you mean.
The only thing I know of that Rock Band has over GH is the construction of the drums. A friend of mine had his Rock Band drums for awhile. Ours barely lasted 2 days. And it's the orange cymbal, a problem a lot of people are reporting. I certainly don't want to return the whole game though, it's great fun. Playing Guitar Battle online was very intense. I just wish the Wii Guitar controllers were a little less expensive.
I disagree. The Guitar Hero drums are much better than the standard Rock Band drums. Rock Band has the better guitar controller, but I prefer the GH ones because they have the slider bar. The main reason why I prefer the GH instrument controllers is because they are able to play Rock Band games. Rock Band guitars work fine with GH, but you don't have the luxury of the slider. However, the Rock Band drums are only effective in Rock Band because they only have 4 pads (the GH version has 5) It's basically the most logical thing to do; buy the controller that can play both games without problems instead of buying the one that is limited to only one of the games.
R315r4z0r wrote on Fri, 01 January 2010 22:31 I disagree. The Guitar Hero drums are much better than the standard Rock Band drums. Rock Band has the better guitar controller, but I prefer the GH ones because they have the slider bar. The main reason why I prefer the GH instrument controllers is because they are able to play Rock Band games. Rock Band guitars work fine with GH, but you don't have the luxury of the slider. However, the Rock Band drums are only effective in Rock Band because they only have 4 pads (the GH version has 5) It's basically the most logical thing to do; buy the controller that can play both games without problems instead of buying the one that is limited to only one of the games. Or, you could just buy Rock Band 2 and stick with it, since it's made by Harmonix, the original developers, and thus keeps the feel that made GH 1/2 so good. Also, Harmonix has all the licenses which is how they're able to provide so much DLC instead of having to release a new full-priced game every year.
As someone who has played both games, I can say GH is far superior. With GH5, GH players have a variety of multiplayer options (Guitar battle, free play, etc), while RB players only have one. GH has a much cooler recording studio app. Also GH5 has far better graphics. Most importantly, GH guitar controller is WAY better than the RB controller because of the strum bar. RB strum bar makes it much harder to play fast. Also, the drums are both equally crappy (though I havent tried out the new GH 5 drumset), which is why ppl who enjoy playing the drums make their own drumset.
Dover wrote on Sat, 02 January 2010 04:18 R315r4z0r wrote on Fri, 01 January 2010 22:31 I disagree. The Guitar Hero drums are much better than the standard Rock Band drums. Rock Band has the better guitar controller, but I prefer the GH ones because they have the slider bar. The main reason why I prefer the GH instrument controllers is because they are able to play Rock Band games. Rock Band guitars work fine with GH, but you don't have the luxury of the slider. However, the Rock Band drums are only effective in Rock Band because they only have 4 pads (the GH version has 5) It's basically the most logical thing to do; buy the controller that can play both games without problems instead of buying the one that is limited to only one of the games. Or, you could just buy Rock Band 2 and stick with it, since it's made by Harmonix, the original developers, and thus keeps the feel that made GH 1/2 so good. Also, Harmonix has all the licenses which is how they're able to provide so much DLC instead of having to release a new full-priced game every year. I do have Rock Band 2.
SoQRadio wrote on Sat, 02 January 2010 09:04 ...GH is far superior...multiplayer options...far better graphics. Lol. SoQRadio wrote on Sat, 02 January 2010 09:04 Most importantly, GH guitar controller is WAY better than the RB controller because of the strum bar. RB strum bar makes it much harder to play fast. Are you refering to the RB1 guitars? Those had a few flaws that they fixed in the RB2 guitars. Saying the new GH is better than the old RB is like saying C&C is a better series than WarCraft because C&C 3 is better than WarCraft: Orcs and Humans. R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 02 January 2010 09:57 I do have Rock Band 2. Then you're basically set. You don't need to buy anything but DLC from now on.
Dover wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:29 Then you're basically set. You don't need to buy anything but DLC from now on. Set am I? -Does Rock Band allow you to skip songs in the middle of playing in a playlist? Guitar Hero does. -Does Rock Band allow you to change difficulty in the middle of a setlist? Guitar Hero does. -Does Rock Band support tap-slidding, extended sustains, 5 drum pads, duel bass pedals, free-style singing & drumming, and open strumming? Guitar Hero does. -Does Rock Band have a built-in music creator and online community library? Guitar Hero does. -Does Rock Band allow you to choose any instrument you want regardless of what other people chose? Guitar Hero does. -Does Rock Band have a jump-in/drop-out party play mode? Guitar Hero does. -Does Rock Band have song challenges? No, they just have an annoyingly repetitive and tedious campaign. Guitar Hero does have them, however. -Does Rock Band have band moments? Guitar Hero does. -Does Rock Band give you as much customization in terms of character creation and instrument design that Guitar Hero does? Hardly. Basically, other than vocal harmonies, solos, and some specific songs, there isn't anything worth having that Rock Band has that Guitar Hero doesn't have or does better. DLC? Guitar Hero releases downloadable songs every week. They also allow you to license other Guitar Hero game set-lists and port them into other games. They are both the same on the surface appearance, but Guitar Hero is far better when it comes down to what counts.
R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 -Does Rock Band allow you to skip songs in the middle of playing in a playlist? Guitar Hero does. Uhh...the idea behind playing a setlist is that you need to play all the songs. That's where the difficulty is. Skipping songs is like skipping levels in any other game. It's pandering to bad players (Which deincentivizes improvement) at best and a cheat feature at worst. Unless you mean free-play mode, in which case why did you put that song in the setlist in the first place? R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 -Does Rock Band allow you to change difficulty in the middle of a setlist? Guitar Hero does. See above. If you can't do the whole setlist at the required difficulty than you need to either: 1) Play at a lower difficulty, or... 2) Get better. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 -Does Rock Band support tap-slidding In songs that call for it, yes. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 extended sustains ? R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 5 drum pads "Rock band has 4 pads! We have 5! WE'RE CLEARLY BETTER BUY OUR PRODUCT!!1!" R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 duel bass pedals In custom sets, yet people seem to get fine even without them. Is this needed, or is it adding stuff for the sake of adding stuff? R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 free-style singing & drumming I'm not sure what you mean here. You mean no-fail mode? Or do you mean singing whatever lyrics you want? Rock Band has both. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 and open strumming? Best reason to buy the next $50 game they shit out I've ever seen. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 -Does Rock Band have a built-in music creator and online community library? Guitar Hero does. No. That's the price of having all the good DLC -- making sure people can't re-create and distribute it for free. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 -Does Rock Band allow you to choose any instrument you want regardless of what other people chose? Guitar Hero does. The only time this is an issue is with guitar/bass, and if you can't agree with your friends as to which instrument you want to play, you really shouldn't be inviting them over to your house to play Rock Band in the first place. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 -Does Rock Band have a jump-in/drop-out party play mode? Guitar Hero does. Because going to the character select mode was too much work for you? Only in America. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 -Does Rock Band have song challenges? No, they just have an annoyingly repetitive and tedious campaign. Guitar Hero does have them, however. They do have a challenge mode, as a matter of fact. Who cares about challenges though? R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 -Does Rock Band have band moments? Guitar Hero does. I can't say it does, but nor do I know what that is. It sounds like some feature that doesn't add anything to gameplay, though. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 -Does Rock Band give you as much customization in terms of character creation and instrument design that Guitar Hero does? Hardly. You might as well be talking about graphics. Who gives two shits about character customization in a rhythm game? Go play The Sims. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 Basically, other than vocal harmonies, solos, and some specific songs, there isn't anything worth having that Rock Band has that Guitar Hero doesn't have or does better. All you've named so far is shit that doesn't matter. What DOES matter in rhythm games are: -A large library of good, fun, challenging songs. -Solid controllers, which Rock Band has had since RB2 and has only improved on since. -Most importantly, responsive mechanics. Anything else is adding features just to be able to add more lines of multicolored text on the back of the box. Having moar useless features don't make the better game. "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 DLC? Guitar Hero releases downloadable songs every week. They also allow you to license other Guitar Hero game set-lists and port them into other games. So does Rock Band. The difference is that Rock Band's DLC is way better than the shit Guitar Hero has scraped together. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 They are both the same on the surface appearance, but Guitar Hero is far better when it comes down to what counts.[/color] If "what counts" to you is making your character look "cool" and skipping songs you suck too much to play, then yeah.
but will they blend? that is the question.
It's annoying using all those quotes. Seriously. Quote: Uhh...the idea behind playing a setlist is that you need to play all the songs. That's where the difficulty is. Skipping songs is like skipping levels in any other game. It's pandering to bad players (Which deincentivizes improvement) at best and a cheat feature at worst. Unless you mean free-play mode, in which case why did you put that song in the setlist in the first place? .... See above. If you can't do the whole setlist at the required difficulty than you need to either: 1) Play at a lower difficulty, or... 2) Get better. First of all, this is a party game. It's meant to be fun in a group. Not for you to be shut up in your basement all day practicing and getting better. Yes I'm talking about free-play. Why would I be complaining that the game's campaign isn't letting me make it easier for myself? I'm talking about when you are with a group of friends and you make a setlist of songs that you enjoy playing. However, three songs in, one person in the 'band' can't find the skill to play correctly and causes everyone to lose. What I would do in that situation would be to skip that song and proceed to the next one, but oh wait, you can't do that in Rock Band. So my next thought would be to have that person lower their difficulty level so everyone else can play the song happily, but oh wait, Rock Band can't do that either. You are then forced to quit the setlist and chose songs all over again. Also, why should you let your ability to play on a certain difficulty level change the idea of if you can play songs you like or not? If you can play every song except for one on Expert, why should that one song hold you back from continuing your setlist? Sure, you should practice it in order to get better, but it's not the game's place to force you to do better or else. Quote: In songs that call for it, yes. No. No it doesn't. Rock Band does not support tap-sliding. Rock Band guitars do not have touch pads like Guitar Hero guitars. There are no songs in Rock Band that allow you to use the Guitar Hero tap-slider. Dover wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 21:45 R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 extended sustains ? [ B]This is when you play other notes while continuing to hold down another. (For example, you hold down a long green note but also play a few individual notes at the same time)[/B] R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 5 drum pads "Rock band has 4 pads! We have 5! WE'RE CLEARLY BETTER BUY OUR PRODUCT!!1!" I was getting at the gameplay element. Rock Band's drum controller doesn't use cymbal pads, so you have to pretend a pad is a cymbal every so often. Guitar Hero has two cymbal pads which gives off a better experience. Also, 5 pads increases the challenge of playing drums. It may just be a single pad, but it increases the gameplay dramatically. It would be like adding a 6th fret button to the guitar controller. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 duel bass pedals In custom sets, yet people seem to get fine even without them. Is this needed, or is it adding stuff for the sake of adding stuff? Of course people do fine without them. Because they aren't designed into Rock Band's note charts! You try playing Guitar Hero Metallica with one bass pedal and then tell me it isn't needed or it's redundant. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 free-style singing & drumming I'm not sure what you mean here. You mean no-fail mode? Or do you mean singing whatever lyrics you want? Rock Band has both. No, I mean short little intermissions in songs that allow you to play what you want and not fail or break your combo. (I don't mean like those instrument crashing parts in Rockband) R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 18:04 and open strumming? Best reason to buy the next $50 game they shit out I've ever seen. It is when you add it to the rest of the stuff I mentioned. Quote: No. That's the price of having all the good DLC -- making sure people can't re-create and distribute it for free. Guitar Hero has both DLC and a music creator and yet there aren't any problems with unofficially distributed music. Hundreads of songs are added weekly by community members. Sure some people try to mimic songs they know, but that's what makes it fun! You can't add vocals, so there is no harm done. Quote: The only time this is an issue is with guitar/bass, and if you can't agree with your friends as to which instrument you want to play, you really shouldn't be inviting them over to your house to play Rock Band in the first place. So you chose your friends based on whether or not they let you play guitar over base in Rock Band? What if you're friend wanted to play drums and they brought over their own drum controller? Why couldn't two of you play drums together? Why can't all four of you use the guitar? Why can't 2 people sing and two people drum? What's the point of the restriction other than to cause arguments? Quote: Because going to the character select mode was too much work for you? Only in America. No, because pausing the song completely and waiting for a band member to get out of the bathroom is annoying. No, because quitting a setlist because one person doesn't want to play anymore is frustrating. No, because spending a half hour in the song selection menu arguing about what songs to pick is aggravating. Party play mode allows you just pick up an instrument and start playing without interrupting other players. If you want to stop, you just leave, no harm done. If more people want to play, the screen adjusts automatically to fit more players. If you don't know what songs to pick, it randomly chooses them for you. If the last person to play before you played on expert, but you can only play medium, you can change the difficulty level without having to restart the song for everyone else. Quote: They do have a challenge mode, as a matter of fact. Who cares about challenges though? Rock Band's career mode is flat out not fun. It makes you play the songs you particularly don't like over and over again for stupid reasons. Guitar Hero's career mode uses song-specific challenges that earn you new things to use. Like new venues, instrument styles, cloths, new characters, ect. Quote: I can't say it does, but nor do I know what that is. It sounds like some feature that doesn't add anything to gameplay, though. Band moments are like star power that can only be used in unison with 1 or more other players. You can't activate it when you play by yourself. Basically, if all members of the band get every note in a short sequence in a song, you unlock a band moment multiplier. In unison with star power, it's possible to have up to a 32x score multiplyer when in a band moment (8x Star Power x 4x Band multiplier) It promotes team play, cooperation and unison when you are trying to reach a score record in a certain song. Quote: You might as well be talking about graphics. Who gives two shits about character customization in a rhythm game? Go play The Sims. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. If it's there and it makes no difference whether it's there or not, why criticize it? Quote: All you've named so far is shit that doesn't matter. What DOES matter in rhythm games are: -A large library of good, fun, challenging songs. -Solid controllers, which Rock Band has had since RB2 and has only improved on since. -Most importantly, responsive mechanics. The only thing I've mentioned that 'doesn't matter' according to you, was the last comment about customization. Quote: "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry How, exactly, does that apply to this argument? There are things that can be taken away from both games without them losing their appeal. You can take away the background scenes, the visual effects, the high-quality audio, ect, but the games would still be the same. What it comes down to is not what has more or better features, but which does the job better. And Guitar Hero wins in that aspect.
This is what an extended sustain looks like, by the way:
R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 First of all, this is a party game. It's meant to be fun in a group. Not for you to be shut up in your basement all day practicing and getting better. I guess anyone who has the physical dexterity required to play a rhythm game would HAVE to be some kind of basement dweller. Oh, wait... R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 Yes I'm talking about free-play. Why would I be complaining that the game's campaign isn't letting me make it easier for myself? I'm talking about when you are with a group of friends and you make a setlist of songs that you enjoy playing. However, three songs in, one person in the 'band' can't find the skill to play correctly and causes everyone to lose. What I would do in that situation would be to skip that song and proceed to the next one, but oh wait, you can't do that in Rock Band. So my next thought would be to have that person lower their difficulty level so everyone else can play the song happily, but oh wait, Rock Band can't do that either. You are then forced to quit the setlist and chose songs all over again. So basically, it's Rock Band's fault that your friend keeps failing and doesn't facilitate making the game easier for you. How about not sucking? Or at least, not picking songs you can't play? R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 Also, why should you let your ability to play on a certain difficulty level change the idea of if you can play songs you like or not? If you can play every song except for one on Expert, why should that one song hold you back from continuing your setlist? Sure, you should practice it in order to get better, but it's not the game's place to force you to do better or else. Because it panders to weak players. Doing that discouraging practice and skillful play and encourages weaseling your way around anything that would coincidently make you improve. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 No. No it doesn't. Rock Band does not support tap-sliding. Rock Band guitars do not have touch pads like Guitar Hero guitars. There are no songs in Rock Band that allow you to use the Guitar Hero tap-slider. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "tap sliding" then. Care to explain? R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 This is when you play other notes while continuing to hold down another. (For example, you hold down a long green note but also play a few individual notes at the same time) This seems like a non-issue. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 I was getting at the gameplay element. Rock Band's drum controller doesn't use cymbal pads, so you have to pretend a pad is a cymbal every so often. Guitar Hero has two cymbal pads which gives off a better experience. Also, 5 pads increases the challenge of playing drums. It may just be a single pad, but it increases the gameplay dramatically. It would be like adding a 6th fret button to the guitar controller. If you want "the experience" of playing drums, you should play drums, not Rock Band or Guitar Hero. Take a moment every now and then and remember that you are playing a video game. Unless you're the type of person who likes to immerse themselves in their gameplay experience. If so, then I'd hate to be at your college or nearby postal office if you play Doom, Grand Theft Auto, or Counter-Strike. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 Of course people do fine without them. Because they aren't designed into Rock Band's note charts! You try playing Guitar Hero Metallica with one bass pedal and then tell me it isn't needed or it's redundant. I could, but that would require playing Guitar Hero: Metallica, and I wouldn't want to subject myself to such a poor-quality product. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 No, I mean short little intermissions in songs that allow you to play what you want and not fail or break your combo. (I don't mean like those instrument crashing parts in Rockband) Rock Band has both of these (And not just at the ending). In fact, both of those are an integral bit in using Overdrive. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 It is when you add it to the rest of the stuff I mentioned. It really isn't. You keep mentioning stuff that doesn't matter. "5th drum pad! I can play sustained notes AND play individual notes! I can dress up my character!", and a thousand things besides that don't add to gameplay at all. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 Guitar Hero has both DLC and a music creator and yet there aren't any problems with unofficially distributed music. Hundreads of songs are added weekly by community members. Sure some people try to mimic songs they know, but that's what makes it fun! You can't add vocals, so there is no harm done. I guess your idea of fun is playing poor imitations of real songs done using some free tool instead of professionally-done songs. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 So you chose your friends based on whether or not they let you play guitar over base in Rock Band? What if you're friend wanted to play drums and they brought over their own drum controller? Why couldn't two of you play drums together? Why can't all four of you use the guitar? Why can't 2 people sing and two people drum? What's the point of the restriction other than to cause arguments? See, I'm actually friends with my friends, and don't get into fights with them over things like "Why can't we have a band with three drummers, a singer, and a donkey?" If these are the kinds of arguments you're having with your friends, you may want to rethink your choice in companionship. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 No, because pausing the song completely and waiting for a band member to get out of the bathroom is annoying. No, because quitting a setlist because one person doesn't want to play anymore is frustrating. No, because spending a half hour in the song selection menu arguing about what songs to pick is aggravating. "Annoying! Frustrating! Aggrivating! Why isn't Rock Band facilitating my bathroom habits and dysfunctional friendships better!" R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 Party play mode allows you just pick up an instrument and start playing without interrupting other players. If you want to stop, you just leave, no harm done. If more people want to play, the screen adjusts automatically to fit more players. If you don't know what songs to pick, it randomly chooses them for you. If the last person to play before you played on expert, but you can only play medium, you can change the difficulty level without having to restart the song for everyone else. I guess I would see more appeal in this if my friends were flakey, indecisive, bad sports, Medium-mode nubs, or any other feature that this Party Mode panders to. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 Rock Band's career mode is flat out not fun. It makes you play the songs you particularly don't like over and over again for stupid reasons. Guitar Hero's career mode uses song-specific challenges that earn you new things to use. Like new venues, instrument styles, cloths, new characters, ect. You might as well be attacking Tug Of War mode, or some other feature nobody uses. PROTIP: Nobody plays Rock Band or Guitar Hero for the career mode. Like you said before, it's a party game meant for having fun with friends. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 Band moments are like star power that can only be used in unison with 1 or more other players. You can't activate it when you play by yourself. Basically, if all members of the band get every note in a short sequence in a song, you unlock a band moment multiplier. In unison with star power, it's possible to have up to a 32x score multiplyer when in a band moment (8x Star Power x 4x Band multiplier) It promotes team play, cooperation and unison when you are trying to reach a score record in a certain song. They don't have that exact feature, but they do have something similar where if multiple players hit their Overdrive/Star Power sequence simultatiously, they get a bonus to how much they are. Unison Bonus, I think it's called. In any rate, it accomplishes the same goals of promoting teamwork, but does so without the restriction of having to use your gains right at that moment. Instead if gives you a choice, which helps enhance the (admittedly limited) strategic element in the game. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. If it's there and it makes no difference whether it's there or not, why criticize it? Because it isn't a gift horse, it's a sold horse. If I'm paying $50 for a game that's basically identically to the one I already have (Be it Rock Band or an older version of Guitar Hero), that better be money well spent. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 The only thing I've mentioned that 'doesn't matter' according to you, was the last comment about customization. Almost none of the stuff you mentioned matters. You're nitpicking minor differences in the game that don't contribute anything. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 There are things that can be taken away from both games without them losing their appeal. You can take away the background scenes, the visual effects, the high-quality audio, ect, but the games would still be the same. You're misapplying the quote. I'm using it to illustrate the flaw in your thinking. You're claiming Guitar Hero is better for having "added on" more stuff like a 5th pad or more pants for your character to wear. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 19:45 What it comes down to is not what has more or better features, but which does the job better. And Guitar Hero wins in that aspect. It's like you skipped over my section on what makes a good rhythm game. -Better song catalog, all professionally done and not flooded with cheap immitations made by amateurs on a free tool. Rock Band has it, Guitar Hero doesn't. -Solid Controllers. Rock Band has them, and some might argue that Guitar Hero has them, but personally they aren't to my liking. That's just personal preference though, so I'll go ahead and say they both do okay there. -Responsive mechanics. Rock Band really out-does Guitar Hero (GH3 and beyond, at least) in this regard. All the other minor things you're talking about is all that's keeping Harmonix from suing Activision's sorry ass, and more "features" to write about on the back of boxes from a sale's point of view.
look @ all the spoony quotes about a video game played at parties to encourage social activity, pretty obvious dover might be lacking a few things here
I like how they're called "Spoony quotes", instead of just application of the quote feature. I notice the people who most often complain about long posts with lots of quotes are most often those who have the least to contribute to the thread.
Damn it, it's 12:30 and I don't want to spend another hour making a post. So forgive me if this is short. (If I remember, I'll come back tomorrow and add on) Have you ever been to a party before? I mean a real party? Ones where there are more than 4 people playing a video game all night long? Guitar Hero's party mode works in that situation. It's a video game. It's entertainment. It's not a serious commitment if you decide you want to play. And as such, it shouldn't be distressing factor if someone wants to stop playing and get on with their life. Party mode can be played with no players! It will randomly cycle through songs. If you decide you want to play, you just need to pick up a controller and your highway pops up and you're in the action! If you want to stop, then you just stop! You keep on saying things like 'oh it's catering to people with no skill' and 'it leaves you with no reason to want to improve.' Well what is so wrong about that? Oh my god, I want to entertain myself by playing a video game?!? I must be insane to think such thoughts of blasphemy!! If people like a song, they will want to get better at it. It's human nature to want to win and to the best they can. So why should this be forced down our thoughts? We are going to do it anyway, so why not at your own pace? It's more fun and less stressful that way. Forced gameplay should only be there for those who want it, not forced on everyone who wants to play it. Guitar Hero caters to that aspect with its unlock system. If you want to play to win, then play campaign and unlock new customization options and venues. That's the point I was making with mentioning that stuff. It doesn't necessarily matter what it looks like, but it's the act of using your learned skill to win a prize. Moving on... Quote: -Better song catalog, all professionally done and not flooded with cheap immitations made by amateurs on a free tool. Rock Band has it, Guitar Hero doesn't. -Solid Controllers. Rock Band has them, and some might argue that Guitar Hero has them, but personally they aren't to my liking. That's just personal preference though, so I'll go ahead and say they both do okay there. -Responsive mechanics. Rock Band really out-does Guitar Hero (GH3 and beyond, at least) in this regard. I did not skip over this, I just thought it was redundant. I'm not going to lie to myself about a game I, in actuality, really don't like to play. I've played Rock Band. I own Rock Band. I've also played Guitar Hero. And I've concluded that after playing both games, Guitar Hero was the higher quality game. -Better song catalog: I wouldn't play a rhythm game that bases itself on music that has songs that I don't like. That's why I would not have bought Guitar Hero Van Halen if I didn't get it for free. Rock Band has some good songs on it, which is why I still play it; it isn't enough, however, to declare it a better game. -Solid Controllers: Exactly as you said it. I actually prefer Rock Band's guitar builds because they feel higher in quality, but they lack a touch pad which is why I steer away from them. The same goes for the drum kit. Rock Band's only has 4 pads which restricts it from playing Guitar Hero games. With the Guitar hero drum controller, I can play both Guitar Hero games AND Rock Band games. -Responsive Mechanics: I don't see how you're saying Rock Band beats Guitar Hero in this aspect. (Did you calibrate your TV?) I always found that Rock Band was much laggier than Guitar Hero. Also, this plays into what I was saying before: 5 Drum pads, extended sustains, tap sliding (which is using the color toned slider bar to slide around the neck of the guitar to play certain note sequences. It also allows you an alternative to using the strumbar), open strums, ect. These are gameplay MECHANICS, not AESTHETICS! They shape how you play the game, not how you look at it. Would you not argue that drumming on 5 pads is more challenging than drumming on 4? Would you not argue that using 5 colored frets AND an open strum is more challenging than just using the frets? Would you not argue that forcing a fret to be held while you play other notes is more challenging than just playing individual notes? Guitar Hero wins the mechanics point by far. Finally, no I was not missapplying the quote. Look at it this way: How do you decide which is better between two seemingly similar things? 1. Decide what does the job better. 2 Decide how much details are in to make or break the deal. Rock Band and Guitar Hero are essentially the same thing! So how do you declare which is better? Using the points you said before? Those are all opinionated. The only way to decide which is better is to decide which accomplishes it's role as a rhythm game better and to take note to see what extras are in that make the game stand out from its competition. Two identical twins want a job as a maid under your employment. They look the same and act the same, but you can only afford one. How do you chose which one? The answer is you see which one can do more than what you are looking for... even if it has nothing to do with the job you're hiring them for. If they both can do what you ask of them, then why not chose the one who knows how to do some other activity better than the other, like drawing, for instance. Edit: so much for being short :V
Dover wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:29 So basically, it's Rock Band's fault that your friend keeps failing and doesn't facilitate making the game easier for you. How about not sucking? Or at least, not picking songs you can't play? Failure is going to happen evenually, unless your friends happen o either be rock gods or super-cautious players (former not likely, latter not being very fun to play with). If it's going to happen, having an available feature to help compensate is very helpful. Dover wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:29 If you want "the experience" of playing drums, you should play drums, not Rock Band or Guitar Hero. Take a moment every now and then and remember that you are playing a video game. So just because we're playing a game doesn't mean it matters? What about your support of the guitar controller for RB2? Having 3 pads and 2 cymbals simply works better. It's easier to play and feels more natural. Dover wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:29 I guess your idea of fun is playing poor imitations of real songs done using some free tool instead of professionally-done songs. I've heard some pretty awesome songs made by people using this tool. And it doesn't replace the music store, it's an addition. So basically you're just saying you don't like using it, even though that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad or useless feature. Dover wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:29 "Annoying! Frustrating! Aggrivating! Why isn't Rock Band facilitating my bathroom habits and dysfunctional friendships better!" Why should it not? Sure it doesn't HAVE to, but when it DOES, it can be very helpful and prevent annoying situations like the ones Razor mentioned earlier. Friends aren't dysfunctional if something like this happens, unless your friends absolutely adore you and will do anything you say. Dover wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:29 You might as well be attacking Tug Of War mode, or some other feature nobody uses. PROTIP: Nobody plays Rock Band or Guitar Hero for the career mode. Like you said before, it's a party game meant for having fun with friends. I play campaign all the time, simply because I find it an effective training method for moving up the difficulty ladder. Not that this actually matters though, because you're both pretty much correct on this point.
R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:00 Damn it, it's 12:30 and I don't want to spend another hour making a post. So forgive me if this is short. (If I remember, I'll come back tomorrow and add on) It shouldn't take you that long, but whatever. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:00 Have you ever been to a party before? I mean a real party? Ones where there are more than 4 people playing a video game all night long? If you're doing nothing but playing a video game all night long, I don't think it counts as a party. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:00 Guitar Hero's party mode works in that situation. It's a video game. It's entertainment. It's not a serious commitment if you decide you want to play. And as such, it shouldn't be distressing factor if someone wants to stop playing and get on with their life. The console has an on/off switch for those moments. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:00 Party mode can be played with no players! It will randomly cycle through songs. If you decide you want to play, you just need to pick up a controller and your highway pops up and you're in the action! If you want to stop, then you just stop! So the game plays itself? More evidence to how it panders to bad players. They don't even need to be playing. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:00 You keep on saying things like 'oh it's catering to people with no skill' and 'it leaves you with no reason to want to improve.' Well what is so wrong about that? Oh my god, I want to entertain myself by playing a video game?!? I must be insane to think such thoughts of blasphemy!! And you don't find it entertaining to challenge yourself? To get better? To improve? Why do you think StarCraft is so popular (And so fun!)? Is it because of it caters to bad players? Is it because of a low skill cealing? R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:00 If people like a song, they will want to get better at it. It's human nature to want to win and to the best they can. So why should this be forced down our thoughts? We are going to do it anyway, so why not at your own pace? It's more fun and less stressful that way. It shouldn't be forced, and it isn't. If you don't want to play Rock Band, you don't play, and if you're the kind of person who has fun by playing random notes and not trying, there's a No Fail mode. Ever tried playing through an RTS game, say, WarCraft II, if you're using cheats? It's way too easy, and no fun at all. The entertainment is in the challenge. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:00 Forced gameplay should only be there for those who want it, not forced on everyone who wants to play it. Guitar Hero caters to that aspect with its unlock system. If you want to play to win, then play campaign and unlock new customization options and venues. That's the point I was making with mentioning that stuff. It doesn't necessarily matter what it looks like, but it's the act of using your learned skill to win a prize. And how is that any different than Rock Band? I unlock my songs, then I play the ones I like in Free Play mode over and over to get better at them. I'm not sure what you're getting at here. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:00 I did not skip over this, I just thought it was redundant. I'm not going to lie to myself about a game I, in actuality, really don't like to play. I've played Rock Band. I own Rock Band. I've also played Guitar Hero. And I've concluded that after playing both games, Guitar Hero was the higher quality game. That's okay. Lots of people make wrong conclusions every day. Don't beat yourself up over it. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:00 -Better song catalog: I wouldn't play a rhythm game that bases itself on music that has songs that I don't like. That's why I would not have bought Guitar Hero Van Halen if I didn't get it for free. Rock Band has some good songs on it, which is why I still play it; it isn't enough, however, to declare it a better game. The part that makes it a better game is that, besides having good songs ship with the game, it also has excellent DLC. Guitar Hero DLC, on the other hand, is terrible. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:00 -Solid Controllers: Exactly as you said it. I actually prefer Rock Band's guitar builds because they feel higher in quality, but they lack a touch pad which is why I steer away from them. The same goes for the drum kit. Rock Band's only has 4 pads which restricts it from playing Guitar Hero games. With the Guitar hero drum controller, I can play both Guitar Hero games AND Rock Band games. As I said before, more features isn't necessarily better. Where'd that quote from that French guy... R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:00 -Responsive Mechanics: I don't see how you're saying Rock Band beats Guitar Hero in this aspect. (Did you calibrate your TV?) I always found that Rock Band was much laggier than Guitar Hero. Blah blah blah; blah blah, blah blah. Guitar Hero wins the mechanics point by far. See above about coming to wrong conclusions. R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:00 Finally, no I was not missapplying the quote. Look at it this way: How do you decide which is better between two seemingly similar things? 1. Decide what does the job better. 2 Decide how much details are in to make or break the deal. Rock Band and Guitar Hero are essentially the same thing! So how do you declare which is better? Using the points you said before? Those are all opinionated. The only way to decide which is better is to decide which accomplishes it's role as a rhythm game better and to take note to see what extras are in that make the game stand out from its competition. Two identical twins want a job as a maid under your employment. They look the same and act the same, but you can only afford one. How do you chose which one? The answer is you see which one can do more than what you are looking for... even if it has nothing to do with the job you're hiring them for. If they both can do what you ask of them, then why not chose the one who knows how to do some other activity better than the other, like drawing, for instance. Not at all. What good does a maid's drawing skills do me? That's a terrible criteria to hire a maid based on, it makes me glad that you're not in charge of hiring anybody. Anyway, your example assumes the maids are identical. Our "maids" are similar, but not identical. What if one maid required a large re-hiring bonus every few months, while you only had to pay the second one a lump some once, and then only pay for supplies? This isn't even getting into how the second maid has better tools, uses cleaning chemicals that smell less, and had a better dusting posture. All this regardless of how good the first maid is at Basketball or whatever. Altzan wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:18 Failure is going to happen evenually, unless your friends happen o either be rock gods or super-cautious players (former not likely, latter not being very fun to play with). If it's going to happen, having an available feature to help compensate is very helpful. It might happen eventually, but it shouldn't happen nearly often enough unless my friends are purposely picking songs and difficulties beyond their abilities, knowing full well they can't handle it (Jerk move), or truly have no idea what their level of skill is, and the second is cured with time. Altzan wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:18 So just because we're playing a game doesn't mean it matters? What about your support of the guitar controller for RB2? I don't support the RB2 guitar because it "feels" like a real guitar -- It doesn't. I support it because it does it's intended job well. Altzan wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:18 Having 3 pads and 2 cymbals simply works better. It's easier to play and feels more natural. Once you've been forced to adapt, sure. Mac users feel most at home when using mac computers, but that doesn't make them superior computers. Altzan wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:18 I've heard some pretty awesome songs made by people using this tool. And it doesn't replace the music store, it's an addition. So basically you're just saying you don't like using it, even though that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad or useless feature. It's an irrelevant feature. The relevent feature (The DLC) is better on Rock Band. Altzan wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:18 Why should it not? Sure it doesn't HAVE to, but when it DOES, it can be very helpful and prevent annoying situations like the ones Razor mentioned earlier. Friends aren't dysfunctional if something like this happens, unless your friends absolutely adore you and will do anything you say. I can tell by your interpretation of what I wrote that you might be one such dysfunctional friend. What kind of friendship are you in if you and your friend can't agree on a song together? Altzan wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 22:18 I play campaign all the time, simply because I find it an effective training method for moving up the difficulty ladder. Not that this actually matters though, because you're both pretty much correct on this point. You use the campaign to get better, as opposed to say, Practice Mode? Or Free Play?
Dover wrote on Mon, 04 January 2010 02:14 Once you've been forced to adapt, sure. Mac users feel most at home when using mac computers, but that doesn't make them superior computers. PC's and Macs aren't trying to mimic something else. The GH drum set mimics real drums better and also play better with that layout (but not purely because they mimic real drums better). Dover wrote on Mon, 04 January 2010 02:14 I can tell by your interpretation of what I wrote that you might be one such dysfunctional friend. What kind of friendship are you in if you and your friend can't agree on a song together? A normal one? Friends can disagree on preferences. If I misinterpreted what you meant to say, my aplogies. Dover wrote on Mon, 04 January 2010 02:14 You use the campaign to get better, as opposed to say, Practice Mode? Or Free Play? I find that using practice mode makes me worse. I work best when just trying out the full song as opposed to slower speeds or specific snippets. I use free play too, but the campaign does a good job of ordering the songs by difficulty, which is why I use it to train.
Altzan wrote on Mon, 04 January 2010 00:34 PC's and Macs aren't trying to mimic something else. The GH drum set mimics real drums better and also play better with that layout (but not purely because they mimic real drums better). I remain unconvinced. Then again, I don't play the drums that much in Rock Band, so whatever. Altzan wrote on Mon, 04 January 2010 00:34 A normal one? Friends can disagree on preferences. If I misinterpreted what you meant to say, my aplogies. Disagree, but disagree civilly, and arrive at some kind of agreeable conclusion. This isn't such a big problem that you need the game to pick songs for you. Come to think of it, you can already pick random songs in Rock Band, except nobody does that because that's stupid. Altzan wrote on Mon, 04 January 2010 00:34 I find that using practice mode makes me worse. I work best when just trying out the full song as opposed to slower speeds or specific snippets. I use free play too, but the campaign does a good job of ordering the songs by difficulty, which is why I use it to train. Hmmm. I found practice mode was actually a big help to slow the songs down at first, like when I first tried Panic Attack on Hard. To each his own, I suppose.
just go buy a real fucking drum kit and guitar and stop playing in front of a screen
Quote: It shouldn't take you that long, but whatever. It does when you insist on making spoony quotes. Quote: If you're doing nothing but playing a video game all night long, I don't think it counts as a party. You misinterpreted what I said. It's to the contrary of your understanding, actually. I said a real party is one that does not simply incorporate 4 people staying up all night playing video games. Even in a small basic party with about a dozen people. Party mode is a good party game. It's not about being the life of the party as people obviously have other things they can be doing. And it's not meant to be some 'planned party event' as if it was some kids birthday bash. Quote: The console has an on/off switch for those moments. When I made the example saying if you decided to want to play, you could do that just by picking up a controller and you could stop just as easy, I never said anything about the other people playing. I just mentioned one person in particular (me, you, whoever.) The idea behind it is that you can drop in while other people are playing a song without interrupting their game, the music, and forcing everyone to quit the song, go to the lobby, add another band member, re-choose songs, and then start playing them again. (However, the option to save and load pre-set play lists might come in handy in that situation) Quote: So the game plays itself? More evidence to how it panders to bad players. They don't even need to be playing. No, that isn't what I meant. If no players are playing it, it will act as a virtual concert or jukebox. It will just show the background scene of the band playing the music and have the music play. It isn't "playing itself" it's just in a standby mode waiting for players to play with the touch of a button. Now, after reading that, you're probably thinking "If no one wanted to play it, why is it on in the first place?" Basically, that's the beauty of it. They realized that although the game is meant for entertainment purposes and for a more social atmosphere, people will not admit it to be a "main event" at a party. Think about it. Would you really think it 'cool' to have a party that is based around playing Rock Band / Guitar Hero? With party mode active, people can say "hey, I like this song!" and give it a try while not having to commit to playing the game. They can give up halfway through or they can just play one song... even if other people still want to play, it is of no consequence if someone in the band leaves. It turns a somewhat nerdy rule and option extensive process into a fun attraction for anyone who feels they are in the mood. No options, no menus, no rules: just pickup and play! Quote: And you don't find it entertaining to challenge yourself? To get better? To improve? Why do you think StarCraft is so popular (And so fun!)? Is it because of it caters to bad players? Is it because of a low skill cealing? I do find it entertaining. But I don't need the game to force that down my throat and make something that IS fun into something that is tedious. If I can't play a song on expert, then I'll keep trying until I can! I'll do that on my own free-will in my own free-time. But if you want to spend your time at a party, in the company of your friends, doing nothing but practicing songs you're bad at in a video game, then far be it from me to tell you what to do. But what if you can play a the game inside out and blindfolded on expert but your friend has problems coordinating themselves playing patty-cake? Almost every you pick you can do easily but your friend just can't find the talent? Is it your fault you keep failing? You don't miss a note, but yet you are still subject to losing. Wouldn't you find a skip-song or a change difficulty option useful in that situation? Instead of having to sit there, bored, playing the song intro over and over while your friend tries to figure out his left and rights? If someone wants to get better, they can do it on their own time or form a serious tournament competing band. They shouldn't have to waste the time of the other people who want to play. Call it catering to bad players, but it makes no difference. Who gives a crap if it does or doesn't? If you're good at playing a song, what does it matter to you? And for what matter of importance is it that other people experience the honing of one's plastic guitar shredding skills? You skipped a song you found out you couldn't play? Oh my god, you should cry yourself to sleep because of how much of a failure you are! It's a video game, not a matter of life and death! Get over it! Quote: It shouldn't be forced, and it isn't. If you don't want to play Rock Band, you don't play, and if you're the kind of person who has fun by playing random notes and not trying, there's a No Fail mode. Ever tried playing through an RTS game, say, WarCraft II, if you're using cheats? It's way too easy, and no fun at all. The entertainment is in the challenge. Personally, I've been playing these games for far too long and it is very hard for me to have fun with them unless I'm playing on the hardest possible difficulty a song has to offer. If I can't play it on that difficulty, I will drop down it's difficulty until I can complete it. Then I work my way back up one difficulty at a time until I can play it on it's hardest difficulty. However, unless the song is some insanely fast heavy metal... or Rush maybe... it's unlikely that I can't complete it on expert to start with. Basically, I will not find entertainment playing a song on an easier difficulty. In other words, I will take it upon myself to learn to play on the hardest difficulty on my own time, I don't need the game nagging me about something I want to accomplish on my own time. It should just let me play the easiest possible difficulty and let me take all possible shortcut if I so desire because it will not change the fact that I want to get better at playing a song. Just because the options exist do not mean I will use them to advance in the game (which you can't do, by the way, because if you want to play through the campaign you have to take it song by song. Skipping songs is something you do in free-play). Quote: And how is that any different than Rock Band? I unlock my songs, then I play the ones I like in Free Play mode over and over to get better at them. I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Yes, thank you. That was the point I was trying to make. It is NOT different then Rock Band (Bar the fact that you are unlocking different things). So what exactly are you griping about? Quote: That's okay. Lots of people make wrong conclusions every day. Don't beat yourself up over it. So, because you don't agree with my preferences means that you're right and I'm wrong? How can I be wrong about something I like? "Do you like ice cream?" "Yeah!" "WRONG! YOU HATE IT!" Quote: The part that makes it a better game is that, besides having good songs ship with the game, it also has excellent DLC. Guitar Hero DLC, on the other hand, is terrible. Cool. I see you're opinion and grant you the right to support it. I, however, beg to differ and that's all there is to it. Quote: As I said before, more features isn't necessarily better. Where'd that quote from that French guy... And you continue to say it over and over. As if it mattered! In a form of media entertainment, the thing that does more does more! Something that does more has more use. Regardless of if it is something relevant to what you're looking for, if you can find use in it, then that's an added plus! Why criticize something for going above and beyond? Especially since its extra features aren't requirements for your enjoyment of the core game. It makes no sense! Quote: See above about coming to wrong conclusions. Ditto. But also see above about criticizing extras. Quote: Not at all. What good does a maid's drawing skills do me? That's a terrible criteria to hire a maid based on, it makes me glad that you're not in charge of hiring anybody. Anyway, your example assumes the maids are identical. Our "maids" are similar, but not identical. What if one maid required a large re-hiring bonus every few months, while you only had to pay the second one a lump some once, and then only pay for supplies? This isn't even getting into how the second maid has better tools, uses cleaning chemicals that smell less, and had a better dusting posture. All this regardless of how good the first maid is at Basketball or whatever. You know, the point doesn't get across when you decide to forget what I said and to nitpick on the tiny details that don't make sense to you in the example. It's hypothetical, just answer the question as written. Of all the criteria you are looking for, two things meet expectations perfectly to the same degree. But if you can only chose one, how would you decide? --- Oh, before I forget, I got one for you too!: Boofst0rm just go buy a real fucking drum kit and guitar and stop playing in front of a screen Playing real instruments and playing video game instruments are two totally different things. Just because they look the same and are called the same thing doesn't mean they replace each other in usage. How would playing real drums or playing real guitar deter me from continuing to play Rock Band and Guitar Hero? Just because I might know how to play on a real drum set doesn't mean I wont still want to play fake drums in a video game...