Command and Conquer: Renegade Official Forums - RDF feed
type: channel
description: C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
items: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :(
items: Re: beta test TT patch
items: Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(

Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :(
type: item
description: cmatt42 wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 19:17 Goztow wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 01:26 For Renegade of course. I'm fully aware that TT shouldn't include balance changes, but the keyword here is should. I want to be damn sure it doesn't before it's pushed. The fact if something is a bug or a balance issue can be different in the eye of the beholder, as was shown in the past. I think this is the most nonsensical post I've ever seen you write. OK, one word: POINTSFIX.
creator: Goztow
date: 2009-12-08T20:47:36-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: Goztow wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 14:47 cmatt42 wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 19:17 Goztow wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 01:26 For Renegade of course. I'm fully aware that TT shouldn't include balance changes, but the keyword here is should. I want to be damn sure it doesn't before it's pushed. The fact if something is a bug or a balance issue can be different in the eye of the beholder, as was shown in the past. I think this is the most nonsensical post I've ever seen you write. OK, one word: POINTSFIX. Don't start that here...lol.
creator: HaTe
date: 2009-12-08T22:21:24-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: Goztow wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 14:47 OK, one word: POINTSFIX. The points issue is something that's been fixed a long time ago without the hands of APB or Reborn testers. As far as scripts 4.0 go, we're just testing the functionality to make sure everything works. Anything relating to Renegade's balance is, quite frankly, out of our scope.
creator: cmatt42
date: 2009-12-09T07:16:59-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: cmatt42 wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 08:16 Goztow wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 14:47 OK, one word: POINTSFIX. The points issue is something that's been fixed a long time ago without the hands of APB or Reborn testers. As far as scripts 4.0 go, we're just testing the functionality to make sure everything works. Anything relating to Renegade's balance is, quite frankly, out of our scope. Thank you, that's what I mean.
creator: Goztow
date: 2009-12-09T09:21:46-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence? half of renegade wasnt against it because they wouldnt get 50 extra points for hitting the harvy, as a certain person had u beleive.
creator: ELiT3FLyR
date: 2009-12-09T22:01:39-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: huzzah! here we go
creator: Wiener
date: 2009-12-09T22:25:15-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: HaTe wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 22:21 Goztow wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 14:47 cmatt42 wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 19:17 Goztow wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 01:26 For Renegade of course. I'm fully aware that TT shouldn't include balance changes, but the keyword here is should. I want to be damn sure it doesn't before it's pushed. The fact if something is a bug or a balance issue can be different in the eye of the beholder, as was shown in the past. I think this is the most nonsensical post I've ever seen you write. OK, one word: POINTSFIX. Don't start that here...lol.
creator: HaTe
date: 2009-12-09T22:25:52-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: As a moderator: DO NOT START A POINTSFIX DEBATE/FLAME WAR IN THIS TOPIC. Offenders will be banned. Go start it where it belongs.
creator: CarrierII
date: 2009-12-09T22:27:23-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: CarrierII wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 16:27 As a moderator: DO NOT START A POINTSFIX DEBATE/FLAME WAR IN THIS TOPIC. Offenders will be banned. Go start it where it belongs. Thank you.
creator: HaTe
date: 2009-12-10T00:04:48-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: It was just an example .
creator: Goztow
date: 2009-12-10T07:34:17-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: CarrierII wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 16:27 As a moderator: DO NOT START A POINTSFIX DEBATE/FLAME WAR IN THIS TOPIC. Offenders will be banned. Go start it where it belongs. Can you ban moderators ... Goztow
creator: Gen_Blacky
date: 2009-12-11T14:56:52-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: Gen_Blacky wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 08:56 CarrierII wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 16:27 As a moderator: DO NOT START A POINTSFIX DEBATE/FLAME WAR IN THIS TOPIC. Offenders will be banned. Go start it where it belongs. Can you ban moderators ... Goztow I can. YazooGang:!ban Goztow Fobby said so. Host: Sorry, Goztow is an awesome moderator, we cant ban him :/ Opps, sorry man, cant.
creator: YazooGang
date: 2009-12-12T00:12:07-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: ELiT3FLyR wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 16:01 how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence? half of renegade wasnt against it because they wouldnt get 50 extra points for hitting the harvy, as a certain person had u beleive. again it seems that the extraordinary lengths i went to to acknowledge and respond to people's criticisms of the pointsfix are in inverse proportion to the attention they paid to my own statements. the only criticism from you that lasted more than thirty seconds in a debate was about mesa (although the fact you focused on this one map while totally ignoring the vastly improved fairness of under, field and wallsfly said a lot more than you meant it to), and i said right from the beginning that this was because the map itself had a huge bug that could also be fixed (deadzones). lo and behold, fixing that has revolutionised the map. don't go misrepresenting my statements on the pointsfix and don't go pretending that i didn't make an extraordinarly careful and thoughtful case in its favour, it's only gonna end with you looking stupid and/or dishonest yet again. but i will agree with you on one thing: i won't hear it said that the pointsfix doesn't affect balance. of course it does; it fixes a glaring balance problem. getting points and credits for absolutely no reason. of course removing this bullshit is going to affect balance; the fact it affects balance so positively is the best thing about it. "how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?" indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance.
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-12T07:46:01-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: What have I done?
creator: Goztow
date: 2009-12-12T08:41:05-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: Goztow wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 02:41 What have I done? Quick split topic b4 carrier comes back Pointsfix does suck imo tho.
creator: Sean
date: 2009-12-12T23:22:52-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: lmao, well done Goztoe
creator: RadioactiveHell
date: 2009-12-14T07:25:57-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: SoQRadio wrote on Mon, 14 December 2009 08:25 lmao, well done Goztoe
creator: Tiesto
date: 2009-12-14T15:31:29-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: Spoony wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:46 "how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?" indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance. For "absolutely no reason" it has been perfectly fine the last 7 years.
creator: KobraOps
date: 2009-12-16T20:59:20-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: KobraOps wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 21:59 Spoony wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:46 "how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?" indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance. For "absolutely no reason" it has been perfectly fine the last 7 years. Just like smoking is healthy. For years it was even recommended by doctors when people where stressed.
creator: EvilWhiteDragon
date: 2009-12-16T22:24:03-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: KobraOps wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 14:59 Spoony wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:46 "how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?" indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance. For "absolutely no reason" it has been perfectly fine the last 7 years. if you think it was "fine" then you obviously don't mind the wrong team winning, defensive play being rewarded instead of offensive play, the economy system almost disappearing, certain maps being horribly lopsided, the ladder being almost meaningless etc etc etc
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-16T22:33:07-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: KobraOps wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 14:59 Spoony wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:46 "how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?" indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance. For "absolutely no reason" it has been perfectly fine the last 7 years. OH GOD NO, CHANGE I GUESS WE HAVE TO BITCH AND MOAN ABOUT IT why not play 1.00 version of Renegade while you're at it
creator: GEORGE ZIMMER
date: 2009-12-17T00:29:50-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: Cuz no flying, why else? And Spoony, did the ladder system ever really have a meaning? Not to mention that some of the other things you mentioned still exist.. I'm willing to adopt to whatever changes are made, but i would also prefer less major impact changes, so i do not have to adapt as much.
creator: HaTe
date: 2009-12-17T00:44:50-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: HaTe wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 18:44 And Spoony, did the ladder system ever really have a meaning? no, and the fact you could get points for absolutely no reason and the fact the wrong team won a lot of the time was a huge part of why. i've drawn up a system to make the public-server ladder worth something, just waiting for it to be implemented. and i've already done so with the clan ladder, as you know. Quote: Not to mention that some of the other things you mentioned still exist.. go on? Quote: I'm willing to adopt to whatever changes are made, but i would also prefer less major impact changes, so i do not have to adapt as much. it doesn't take much work to "adapt" to the original renegade points and economy system, you just need to remember to actually do damage instead of shooting things ineffectually.
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-17T01:33:19-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: Quote: it doesn't take much work to "adapt" to the original renegade points and economy system, you just need to remember to actually do damage instead of shooting things ineffectually. Thing is, for example, if you are used to sniping, and getting points to win by shooting tanks with heavy armor, then it does take adaptation to know that there is now no point in shooting them. Just one of many examples i could use, just takes less time, and is easier on us all if we just don;t have to, if not needed. I know you feel that it IS needed, which is fine by me, just that others do not.
creator: HaTe
date: 2009-12-17T01:56:05-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: HaTe wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 19:56 Thing is, for example, if you are used to sniping, and getting points to win by shooting tanks with heavy armor, then it does take adaptation to know that there is now no point in shooting them. the fault for this belongs entirely to the points bug - it taught you ridiculously bad habits. still, it shouldn't take you much brainpower to get over that one - if your reaction upon seeing a heavy vehicle threatening your base is to shoot it ineffectually, i put it to you that you were never a good player in the first place. Quote: Just one of many examples i could use don't hide behind that, give all of the "many". Quote: just takes less time, and is easier on us all if we just don;t have to, if not needed. I know you feel that it IS needed, which is fine by me, just that others do not. well, that says it all, doesn't it. if you don't think the maps should be fair, and if you don't think offensive play should trump defensive play, and if you don't think points ought to mean anything at all, and if you don't really think the game ought to have an economy system, then you won't see the need in implementing the original points system.
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-17T03:09:05-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: Spoony, there's no sense arguing. Any sensible person knows you're right- and someone who can't make any sense won't try to be anything else.
creator: GEORGE ZIMMER
date: 2009-12-17T06:04:04-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Split here. Sorry for starting this again .
creator: Goztow
date: 2009-12-17T12:50:37-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: mr zimmer, i dont think spoony is interested in a a relationship so u can stop sucking up to him now.
creator: ELiT3FLyR
date: 2009-12-17T14:13:44-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: ELiT3FLyR wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 09:13 mr zimmer, i dont think spoony is interested in a a relationship so u can stop sucking up to him now. Ah yes, comments and inuendo about sexual preference. A sure fire way to win the arguement! Why not just do away with the actual debate all together and out right call him a fag? Oh wait, you did. You don't look clever, you don't look tough. If you've managed to impress anyone, it's only other retards.
creator: reborn
date: 2009-12-17T15:15:45-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: ELiT3FLyR wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 08:13 mr zimmer, i dont think spoony is interested in a a relationship so u can stop sucking up to him now. looool. You do know that Spoony has tried for AGES to come to a compromise between people who want pointsfix and those who don't, right? Guess who try the hardest to make the compromises? The pro-pointsfix crowd. The anti-pointsfix crowd does nothing but throw out retarded "insults", make up stupid terms they refuse to change (calling the pointsfix a "pointmod" and such), using nonsensical logic constantly (THE POINTSFIX IS BAD BECAUSE IT'S NOT WHAT ORIGINAL RENEGADE USED SO POINTSFIX IS BAD), and generally being assholes. I see no reason why Spoony has to continue with the constant stream of bullshit. And people like you only further my opinion (which seems more and more to be a fact) of the anti-pointsfix crowd.
creator: GEORGE ZIMMER
date: 2009-12-17T18:50:20-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: These threads stopped being funny a long time ago. 1. Pointsfix makes public server gameplay better 2. Pointsfix creates more problems than it solves in clanwars mmmmmhh
creator: JohnDoe
date: 2009-12-17T19:05:04-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: GOZTOE THIS TIME YOU HAVE GONE TO FAR! (I can't believe no one did that yet)
creator: luv2pb
date: 2009-12-17T19:07:00-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: I fail to see how I'm in the anti-pointsfix crowd. Spoony, you known all of the adjustments the pointsfix made, so why would you want me to restate them? I have no intention of being quote spammed all day long you, as i am sure you would not hesitate to do. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, all i said that is I will adjust to anything, as long as it is fair. Meaning that I will still play with the pointsfix, and i will not complain about it...I just think that some certain things will take some getting used to, and that I personally don't see them necessary. I have no intentions of posting every last one, as you would find a way to try and convince me that it is for the better in each case, and i just wish to save us both the time - I am arrogant. No need attacking a person for posting his opinion, when it is neither with you, or against you, it will just make said person turn more against you in the end. I think that that may be a reason why some people may not like you, but hey, that's just my opinion again.
creator: HaTe
date: 2009-12-17T19:25:55-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: ELiT3FLyR wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:13 mr zimmer, i dont think spoony is interested in a a relationship so u can stop sucking up to him now. Anti-pointfix camp loses because of Chew's law.
creator: EvilWhiteDragon
date: 2009-12-17T19:54:49-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: So the other day I am playing field. I am on GDI and trying to hold our position at Nod's base front. I had been using a MRLS most of the game, used a few meds when I could afford them... kept losing tanks because nobody was helping in field. It was a smaller game. Getting closer to the end of the round I was noticing somebody else on my team had a lot of points, they were even passing me at some times while I repaired. I look back and see a havoc... apparently this asshole had been sitting there all round shooting the harvester trying to get MVP. I didn't feel he deserved MVP for n00bjetting the harv for 30 mins... so I started trying to kill the harvester as soon as I could. If that stupid point whore would have actually helped me in the field we might have ended that map a lot sooner with a base kill... Stupid shit like this makes me for pointfix. If you want points you should do something worth the points. MVP = most valuable player... I don't give a shit how many points you get, you are not truly valuable to the team sniping a harvester... unless of course you downloaded some nifty extra that will enable you to actually kill the damn thing.
creator: ChewML
date: 2009-12-17T19:54:52-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 13:54 ELiT3FLyR wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:13 mr zimmer, i dont think spoony is interested in a a relationship so u can stop sucking up to him now. Anti-pointfix camp loses because of Chew's law. LOL, gg. double post, but couldn't help it
creator: ChewML
date: 2009-12-17T19:57:09-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 18:29 KobraOps wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 14:59 Spoony wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:46 "how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?" indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance. For "absolutely no reason" it has been perfectly fine the last 7 years. OH GOD NO, CHANGE I GUESS WE HAVE TO BITCH AND MOAN ABOUT IT You dirty obama lover. Keep ur change. Oh and comparing playing a video game to smoking, wtf?
creator: KobraOps
date: 2009-12-17T20:20:21-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Chew wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 13:54 So the other day I am playing field. I am on GDI and trying to hold our position at Nod's base front. I had been using a MRLS most of the game, used a few meds when I could afford them... kept losing tanks because nobody was helping in field. It was a smaller game. Getting closer to the end of the round I was noticing somebody else on my team had a lot of points, they were even passing me at some times while I repaired. I look back and see a havoc... apparently this asshole had been sitting there all round shooting the harvester trying to get MVP. I didn't feel he deserved MVP for n00bjetting the harv for 30 mins... so I started trying to kill the harvester as soon as I could. If that stupid point whore would have actually helped me in the field we might have ended that map a lot sooner with a base kill... Stupid shit like this makes me for pointfix. If you want points you should do something worth the points. MVP = most valuable player... I don't give a shit how many points you get, you are not truly valuable to the team sniping a harvester... unless of course you downloaded some nifty extra that will enable you to actually kill the damn thing. Most servers allow you to shoot enemy buildings with your tank, fyi.
creator: KobraOps
date: 2009-12-17T20:22:56-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: KobraOps wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 10:20 You dirty obama lover. Keep ur change. LOL KobraOps wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 10:20 Oh and comparing playing a video game to smoking, wtf? It actually makes perfect sense if you stop and think about it. Oh, wait, haha.
creator: GEORGE ZIMMER
date: 2009-12-17T20:59:13-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: KobraOps wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 21:20 GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 18:29 KobraOps wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 14:59 Spoony wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:46 "how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?" indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance. For "absolutely no reason" it has been perfectly fine the last 7 years. OH GOD NO, CHANGE I GUESS WE HAVE TO BITCH AND MOAN ABOUT IT You dirty obama lover. Keep ur change. Oh and comparing playing a video game to smoking, wtf? So, we shouldnt release TT at all As it will change gameplay (with or without pointfix) NOES!!!1!
creator: EvilWhiteDragon
date: 2009-12-17T21:08:52-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:08 KobraOps wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 21:20 GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 18:29 KobraOps wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 14:59 Spoony wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:46 "how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?" indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance. For "absolutely no reason" it has been perfectly fine the last 7 years. OH GOD NO, CHANGE I GUESS WE HAVE TO BITCH AND MOAN ABOUT IT You dirty obama lover. Keep ur change. Oh and comparing playing a video game to smoking, wtf? So, we shouldnt release TT at all As it will change gameplay (with or without pointfix) NOES!!!1! Guess so, EWD. We have been defeated. I guess we should pack up our bags and leave, obviously we're no good to the Renegade community to want the pointsfix
creator: GEORGE ZIMMER
date: 2009-12-17T21:29:59-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: KobraOps wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 14:22 Most servers allow you to shoot enemy buildings with your tank, fyi. No shit... rly? I will have to try that next time... Dumbass. Everytime I went up to hit the buildings I would lose my tank because no support and Nod was camping.
creator: ChewML
date: 2009-12-17T22:01:26-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: ELiT3FLyR wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 08:13 mr zimmer, i dont think spoony is interested in a a relationship so u can stop sucking up to him now. this is another thing you always see from the anti-pointsfix brigade. whenever someone agrees with me, there's always some way of trying to dismiss what they say because there must be some ulterior motive for it, instead of the simple truth: "he thinks spoony's right" GEORGE ZIMMER wrote You do know that Spoony has tried for AGES to come to a compromise between people who want pointsfix and those who don't, right? Guess who try the hardest to make the compromises? The pro-pointsfix crowd. The anti-pointsfix crowd does nothing but throw out retarded "insults", make up stupid terms they refuse to change (calling the pointsfix a "pointmod" and such), using nonsensical logic constantly (THE POINTSFIX IS BAD BECAUSE IT'S NOT WHAT ORIGINAL RENEGADE USED SO POINTSFIX IS BAD), and generally being assholes. I see no reason why Spoony has to continue with the constant stream of bullshit. And people like you only further my opinion (which seems more and more to be a fact) of the anti-pointsfix crowd. this is true and i've remarked upon it several times. i can and will go further on what the anti-pointsfix crowd likes to do: making up fake quotes and pretending i said them (THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A POINTSFIX DEBATE WHEN THEY DIDN'T TRY THAT!) no matter how many times the anti-pointsfix crowd get caught lying to the community to try to win an argument, insult anyone who disagrees with them etc etc etc - meanwhile i'm the one going to absolutely incredible lengths to encourage debate, engage everybody's opinion and suggest all sorts of compromises, they still have the bollock-brained stupidity of portraying me as the ignorant, offensive one. it's like something from a lewis carroll novel, it really is. SS wrote These threads stopped being funny a long time ago. 1. Pointsfix makes public server gameplay better 2. Pointsfix creates more …
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-17T22:09:25-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Does it actually fix jumping out before your vehicle dies?
creator: Tunaman
date: 2009-12-17T22:19:21-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: spoony, you will never ever ever ever convince simpee? why are you still bothering? :/
creator: Herr Surth
date: 2009-12-17T22:23:27-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: topic 9,012 on the pointsfix.. and imagine this: no one has changed their opinions.
creator: raven
date: 2009-12-17T22:34:28-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: indeed, a fanatical unwillingness to admit error is another staple of the anti-pointsfix crowd. what's really funny is simpee tries to make the same point against me - indeed, he said so barely a day ago - which would indicate that he disapproves of that kind of behaviour. trouble is he keeps getting proven wrong when he says so about me
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-17T22:40:54-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: JohnDoe wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 13:05 These threads stopped being funny a long time ago. 1. Pointsfix makes public server gameplay better 2. Pointsfix creates more problems than it solves in clanwars mmmmmhh sometimes, but not necessarily
creator: liquidv2
date: 2009-12-17T23:29:00-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Well, about the infantry shooting tanks thing, usually a heavy armored tank will easily kill an infantry unit, so the infantry unit needs something to get out of defending himself from the tank, points will work. I suppose maybe that is what EA and Westwood were thinking? It's more logic that what your fake logs with Simpee have at least , still though, I see what you mean, and the pointsfix is for the better, sometimes, in my opinion.
creator: HaTe
date: 2009-12-17T23:49:00-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: You can't really instantly conclude that it'll help or worsen clanwars and gameplay. Can't we just take a logical approach here, skip all the politics, and just put it to some testing?
creator: BlueThen
date: 2009-12-17T23:55:19-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: shit y everyone gettin so serious Im just trying to hate on obama
creator: KobraOps
date: 2009-12-18T00:46:30-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: KobraOps wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 18:46 shit y everyone gettin so serious Im just trying to hate on obama ... then make a different topic... prolly in spam fest. Pointfixmod is serious business.
creator: ChewML
date: 2009-12-18T00:56:58-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Apparently. Does anyone read the essays spoony writes? I give u a B+ for the last one, i didnt read it but it appears you cited your sources well, because you have many quotes. And probably some strong refuting arguments. And how are smoking and renegade related? Renegade isnt real and smoking is. However studies do show that both Renegade and smoking will cause cancer, so if thats ur angle then u have a good point.
creator: KobraOps
date: 2009-12-18T01:06:01-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: KobraOps wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 02:06 Apparently. Does anyone read the essays spoony writes? I give u a B+ for the last one, i didnt read it but it appears you cited your sources well, because you have many quotes. And probably some strong refuting arguments. And how are smoking and renegade related? Renegade isnt real and smoking is. However studies do show that both Renegade and smoking will cause cancer, so if thats ur angle then u have a good point. Well actually my point was that smoking and Renegade without pointfix causes brain tumors to evolve rapidly. Although at the moment scientists are researching the possibility the opposite is true: Those who are anti-pointfix already have a brain tumor and therefore their intelligence is already dropping. It's not yet official, but the first clues hint in this direction. Btw, this discussion ended about where the first faggot remark was made, pretty much right at the start.
creator: EvilWhiteDragon
date: 2009-12-18T01:21:11-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 19:21 KobraOps wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 02:06 Apparently. Does anyone read the essays spoony writes? I give u a B+ for the last one, i didnt read it but it appears you cited your sources well, because you have many quotes. And probably some strong refuting arguments. And how are smoking and renegade related? Renegade isnt real and smoking is. However studies do show that both Renegade and smoking will cause cancer, so if thats ur angle then u have a good point. Well actually my point was that smoking and Renegade without pointfix causes brain tumors to evolve rapidly. Although at the moment scientists are researching the possibility the opposite is true: Those who are anti-pointfix already have a brain tumor and therefore their intelligence is already dropping. It's not yet official, but the first clues hint in this direction. I beg to differ. Having brain tumors does not necessarily mean a loss in intelligence. Faggot. But I dont think the pointsfix actually matters cause if people stop playing it isnt going to be because of it.
creator: KobraOps
date: 2009-12-18T02:24:59-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: bla bla, mr i ruined two maps better than field to fix field, which only works because of an extra rule i had to add to make sure nod didnt dominate easy. so how bout that vechile allignment bla bla mod, the one that completes pointfix but only goes to create another glitch that u then dont even tell people about until they find out themselves and try to blow their tank up 5 seconds after they get out only realise its indestructable? u really didnt need to jump all over this, i cant resist the urge to post when the people patching the game are like, "wtf, changing the pointsystem doesnt change balence" but f00k this argument, the changes are almost all negative but theyre not worth the 4000 pages spent arguing over it.
creator: ELiT3FLyR
date: 2009-12-18T02:49:55-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: HaTe wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 17:49 Well, about the infantry shooting tanks thing, usually a heavy armored tank will easily kill an infantry unit, so the infantry unit needs something to get out of defending himself from the tank, points will work. that's just downright stupid. Quote: I suppose maybe that is what EA and Westwood were thinking? it's been proven again and again and again that westwood did not intend the point mod to exist. Quote: It's more logic that what your fake logs with Simpee have at least actually no. they're not intended to be "logs", it's a fictional depiction of how the argument would have happened had the situation been the other way around. as it happens, the arguments within it are pretty good summations of the actual debates that have happened, i.e. absolutely nobody on the anti-pointsfix crowd coming up with even a poor answer to some pretty basic and important questions. and no, it's not more logical. BlueThen wrote You can't really instantly conclude that it'll help or worsen clanwars and gameplay. Can't we just take a logical approach here, skip all the politics, and just put it to some testing? of course you can't "instantly conclude" that, that's why i've insisted on a great deal of balance testing. as far as clanwars go, the results have been better than i'd hoped; all of my theories turned out to be absolutely right. every game on the new system has gone to the right clan; that was definitely NOT the case before. incidentally, quite a few people on the anti-pointsfix side have took their usual approach. during the initial testing they embarked on a campaign of lies, manipulation and sabotage to try to get it removed from the clanwar servers, then later lied to everybody and said they did test the full pointsfix (untrue). i'd have loved to "skip all the politics" there, but the anti-pointsfix crowd had other ideas. still, they utterly failed, the pointsfix is where it should be and the clanwars league just had the best month…
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-18T03:01:35-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: ELiT3FLyR wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 20:49 bla bla, mr i ruined two maps better than field to fix field, which only works because of an extra rule i had to add to make sure nod didnt dominate easy. which two maps are you talking about, and which "extra rule"? i think i know, but i'd like to hear it. Quote: so how bout that vechile allignment bla bla mod, the one that completes pointfix but only goes to create another glitch that u then dont even tell people about until they find out themselves and try to blow their tank up 5 seconds after they get out only realise its indestructable? that very briefly used to be the case, but it was tweaked as soon as we found that out, at my behest. even with the 5-second situation (which isn't the case anymore), it's far better than the previous situation. when i first came back to clanwars, you might remember i joined you and clear and some others in a few funwars using your point mod. the way you guys played was just laughable - getting loads of sakuras in the last minute of cityfly, jumping out of your tank before it dies every single time. you wanna go back to that ridiculous bullshit, you're welcome to it. i'd rather play the original renegade, as we currently are at clanwars. Quote: but theyre not worth the 4000 pages spent arguing over it. i certainly prefer this position to your previous position, which is that any clanwars league using the original points and economy system must be sabotaged, and that no public server must be allowed to use it either because then there'd be less servers with your point mod for you to play on. that old position of yours was perhaps going a little too far, hmmm?
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-18T03:09:05-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: KobraOps wrote on Thu, 17 December 2009 19:06 Does anyone read the essays spoony writes? I give u a B+ for the last one, i didnt read it but it appears you cited your sources well, because you have many quotes. And probably some strong refuting arguments. Wow...and that was one of the shorter ones. You should teach an English class or something... bet the students would love to have someone who just glances at something to see how long it is. I know I sure would have loved it. Why even bother posting in this thread if you are not gonna read what others have to say? Maybe if you took time to read you would agree with pointfix.
creator: ChewML
date: 2009-12-18T05:35:44-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Fact is most people against it haven't even tried it. The only real objective and circumstanced argument I ever saw in a pointsfix debate came from Jelly (I think) who said the pointfix made marathon games less enjoyable because there's less money in the game. Spoony then launched a topic with multiple alternative solutions to bring more money into the game in an objective way but this was utterly ignored by all anti pointfix people.
creator: Goztow
date: 2009-12-18T07:59:54-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: The Pointsfix makes the game more balanced, it just took some of the speed out of clanwars...granted, I haven't played a clanwars in 2 years, but I guess the game is still pretty much over if i.e. your sniper gets shot in the face right away. Renegade is already rather predictable, the pointsfix simply makes it even easier to guess the opponents' cash supply. In a way, it made the game worse by making it better in theory. I can't comment on the harv blocking and jumping out of vehicles stuff...just out of curiosity, does that include blocking your opponent's harv?
creator: JohnDoe
date: 2009-12-18T08:51:50-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Those special crates also make the game less predictable, that doesn't mean they make the games any better...
creator: Goztow
date: 2009-12-18T09:40:26-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: JohnDoe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 02:51 The Pointsfix makes the game more balanced, it just took some of the speed out of clanwars...granted, I haven't played a clanwars in 2 years, but I guess the game is still pretty much over if i.e. your sniper gets shot in the face right away. Renegade is already rather predictable, the pointsfix simply makes it even easier to guess the opponents' cash supply. oddly enough, the opposite is true. a lot of new strats have opened up. you speak of cityfly and wallsfly - you see more early rushes now, remote rush gambits, multiple lights, the odd MRLS etc etc etc. there's more than one way of playing the map now than just saving for an orca and a havoc... Quote: I can't comment on the harv blocking and jumping out of vehicles stuff...just out of curiosity, does that include blocking your opponent's harv? the main gist of the rule is that you're not allowed to block your own harv. this has done wonders for field and under, works well on cityfly too. you can hinder the enemy harv, but i did disallow that crap on complex/islands where you wedge the enemy harv next to the door. Goztow wrote Fact is most people against it haven't even tried it. The only real objective and circumstanced argument I ever saw in a pointsfix debate came from Jelly (I think) who said the pointfix made marathon games less enjoyable because there's less money in the game. Spoony then launched a topic with multiple alternative solutions to bring more money into the game in an objective way but this was utterly ignored by all anti pointfix people. mmhmm. what's sad is it's perfectly possible to keep your economy stable so long as you play it smart. most people have learned so many bad habits thanks to the points bug that they don't play smart. they say odd things like: if your base is under siege and you can't shoot the meds with a nod soldier, how are you supposed to get money? stop and think about that for a second, these people have been playing this game …
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-18T10:49:55-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: Why not play Rene the way we're supposed to? It might be 'unfair' in some people's opinions, but that's how the game as made. No need for any addon pointfixs imo.
creator: Sean
date: 2009-12-18T10:55:15-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Lol the game is already shit with the graphics, making it nicer with skins is the only way to make it a cooler game imo, and skill ofc. Anyway, I use skins to give Renegade a new look every month. So it doesn't bore me out.
creator: GoldDrag
date: 2009-12-18T11:15:58-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: Azazel wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 04:55 Why not play Rene the way we're supposed to? It might be 'unfair' in some people's opinions, but that's how the game as made. No need for any addon pointfixs imo. the pointsfix IS how the game was made, it IS the way we were "supposed" to play. the bug that allows you to get points and money for absolutely no reason, that is the addon, that is the mod. it does not even have the benefit of being there on purpose, nobody chose to put it there. check my semi-hypothetical conversation near the bottom of page two; if that does not convince you of how ridiculous the points mod is, i do not think you are capable of being convinced.
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-18T11:28:54-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: I guess I'll just have to play a clanwar to see if things have changed for the better. Wouldn't the no harv block rule make it much more difficult to camp in base with ramjets regardless of the pointsfix?
creator: JohnDoe
date: 2009-12-18T13:02:58-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Goztow wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 03:40 Those special crates also make the game less predictable, that doesn't mean they make the games any better... Are you really this stupid? Unpredictable and random aren't the same thing...I don't think you're in a position to argue about clanwars, anyway.
creator: JohnDoe
date: 2009-12-18T13:06:06-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: JohnDoe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 09:51 The Pointsfix makes the game more balanced, it just took some of the speed out of clanwars...granted, I haven't played a clanwars in 2 years, but I guess the game is still pretty much over if i.e. your sniper gets shot in the face right away. Renegade is already rather predictable, the pointsfix simply makes it even easier to guess the opponents' cash supply. In a way, it made the game worse by making it better in theory. I can't comment on the harv blocking and jumping out of vehicles stuff...just out of curiosity, does that include blocking your opponent's harv? You know that points always give away how much money someone made? Just add the gametime in seconds*2 to it and you have the amount of cash they have (roughly). That hasn't changed with or without pointfix.
creator: EvilWhiteDragon
date: 2009-12-18T13:11:49-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: Azazel wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 11:55 Why not play Rene the way we're supposed to? It might be 'unfair' in some people's opinions, but that's how the game as made. No need for any addon pointfixs imo. Yea, let's go back to v1.00 of ren, and abandon those stupid planes and what not.
creator: EvilWhiteDragon
date: 2009-12-18T13:12:41-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: JohnDoe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 14:06 Goztow wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 03:40 Those special crates also make the game less predictable, that doesn't mean they make the games any better... Are you really this stupid? Unpredictable and random aren't the same thing...I don't think you're in a position to argue about clanwars, anyway. Those crates aren't less random than the points you get for shooting a med tank with a rifle soldier, tbh. Seeing as i played clanwars with both points bug and points fix and that I've played them both more recently than 2 years ago, I'd say I'm actually in a much better position to talk about it than you are...
creator: Goztow
date: 2009-12-18T13:26:54-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: JohnDoe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 07:02 I guess I'll just have to play a clanwar to see if things have changed for the better. aye, and there's never been a better time to play clanwars. i can say with utmost candour that i enjoyed last month's league more than any other league month ever... (this is going back to nov/dec 2003?) great competition between the top clans, everyone played fairly, no dodging at all, nobody tried pushing, were barely even any AR's, and almost nobody worth mentioning was suspected of cheating. and like i said, every single clan game has gone to the team that deserved it. i've never seen an undeserved win since the new system was put there. i saw plenty of them over the years before that. Quote: Wouldn't the no harv block rule make it much more difficult to camp in base with ramjets regardless of the pointsfix? well, the reasoning behind the no-harvblock rule is along the same lines as some of the arguments in favour of the pointsfix - promotion of aggressive play rather than defensive play, which we know was supposed to be the game's general gist anyway. on maps like field and under, it's not enough anymore for gdi to just take the field early on (usually a given unless they really fuck up the harv fight), kill the harv a few times then fall back and camp for the rest of the game with the harv blocked. previously nod had a bugger of a time just breaking even because they'd have to move all the way up instead of just MRLS at the back hills etc from gdi. now you've actually got to hold the field, and moving further up to hit buildings is much more worthwhile then staying further back to kill the harv every time - as it should be, given the greater risk and the more skill required to stay alive.
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-18T13:27:50-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 07:12 Azazel wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 11:55 Why not play Rene the way we're supposed to? It might be 'unfair' in some people's opinions, but that's how the game as made. No need for any addon pointfixs imo. Yea, let's go back to v1.00 of ren, and abandon those stupid planes and what not. And keep the PT bug (which may be a good rule to implement against into CW, idk how big of a problem it may or may not be). And keep blue hell, taunt falling, the bug that shows Nod new vehicles in the middle of most maps, and invisible C4... and any other stupid bug in Renegade that is known of... Just because it was made that way does not mean it was supposed to be that way. GoldDrag wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 05:15 Lol the game is already shit with the graphics, making it nicer with skins is the only way to make it a cooler game imo, and skill ofc. Anyway, I use skins to give Renegade a new look every month. So it doesn't bore me out. This topic is about gameplay balance, not about how it looks. I use skins aswell, but that doesn't mean I don't agree with pointfix... Spoony wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 08:27 John Doe: Wouldn't the no harv block rule make it much more difficult to camp in base with ramjets regardless of the pointsfix? well, the reasoning behind the no-harvblock rule is along the same lines as some of the arguments in favour of the pointsfix - promotion of aggressive play rather than defensive play, which we know was supposed to be the game's general gist anyway. on maps like field and under, it's not enough anymore for gdi to just take the field early on (usually a given unless they really fuck up the harv fight), kill the harv a few times then fall back and camp for the rest of the game with the harv blocked. previously nod had a bugger of a time just breaking even because they'd have to move all the way up instead of just MRLS at the back hills etc from gdi. now you've actually got to hold the field, and…
creator: ChewML
date: 2009-12-18T16:15:17-00:00

Re: beta test TT patch
type: item
description: Chew wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 10:15 And keep the PT bug (which may be a good rule to implement against into CW, idk how big of a problem it may or may not be) i'm not yet decided on that, probably best to just try it. Quote: ^ C&C = Command and Conquer, not Command and Camp. In the old C&C games you didn't just build a base and defend it, you didn't win till you killed the other base. The only time there were timelimits was in the story mode, but in the skirmish mode which is basically what we play in Renegade you played till one or the other was dead. Now I don't much like to play marathon, but I hate the fact that some people would rather let their base die to camp and win by points. i do like the system of timed games and the possibility of point victories (indeed i prefer timed over marathon), but it only works so long as offensive play trumps defensive play and you can't get points for no reason... *cough* it literally amazes me that more people can't see the points bug for the huge balance problem it is. getting points for absolutely no reason - < that sentence alone ought to ring alarm bells for anyone who truly cares about the game being balanced.
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-18T17:19:01-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: ss u better come back or ELSE "aye, and there's never been a better time to play clanwars. i can say with utmost candour that i enjoyed last month's league more than any other league month ever..." that's because u played with me! ps: if u want to keep playing with me, i suggest u give me a valid renegade serial
creator: Hitman
date: 2009-12-18T17:41:18-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: "Spoony" that's just downright stupid. Why is that? The infantry can't do anything but get points, and hopefully lay a c4 on the tank...if you take away the points, what good are light infantry against armored tanks at all? Some people enjoy not sitting in a tank all game, so the infantry part has to come in play somewhere. Getting points for an infantry unit shooting an armored tank is no need for a whole discussion.... Or say there is a tank limit, and someone does not want to sit and repair a tank all game, getting points is still necessary for the win in many cases. Or if a team only has the bar or hon left, and they need credits, against a team that has tanks...it's only fair that they get them by actually shooting the tanks. Sure, maybe the pointsfix is making the gameplay better, in that teams go for the win by destruction, instead of time limit more, but it also takes some of the fun out of it for many people. Seriously, just one post with you explaining something without quoting to get your point across would be nice. You try and make all opposing look like idiots by proving them wrong with quotes in my opinion, and are not helping your cause.
creator: HaTe
date: 2009-12-18T20:54:31-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: HaTe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 14:54 Why is that? The infantry can't do anything but get points, Black hand LCG, Engineer, Technician/Hotwire, Gunner, PIC Sydney/Raveshaw, and some others would like to have a word with you. HaTe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 14:54 what good are light infantry against armored tanks at all? LIGHT INFANTRY ARE NOT MEANT TO BE USED AGAINST TANKS. The ONLY reason people use them against tanks is because of pointsbug. With pointsfix, I guarantee there will be more anti-tank infantry on the field rather than some asshole shooting at your full health mammoth getting ridiculous amount of points doing absolutely nothing. OH NO HE CAN'T KILL THE TANK!!1 no shit sherlock, that's why you have the plethora of anti-tank infantry for that. HaTe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 14:54 Some people enjoy not sitting in a tank all game, so the infantry part has to come in play somewhere. Anti-infantry units are, guess what- I know this might be hard to wrap your head around, but bear with me- USED TO FIGHT INFANTRY, NOT TANKS.. Once more, if you want anti-tank, GET AN ANTI TANK INFANTRY UNIT. If you want both, GET AN LCG/SBH/SOME SEMBLANCE OF SKILL. HaTe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 14:54 Getting points for an infantry unit shooting an armored tank is no need for a whole discussion.... When it causes several members of your team to unfairly get points for doing absolutely nothing worthwhile except getting points and money, yes it is. That's a huge balance issue. HaTe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 14:54 Or say there is a tank limit, and someone does not want to sit and repair a tank all game, Once again, ANTI TANK INFANTRY. GDI even has a FREE anti tank unit. Oh, it's too hard to use? Stop sucking so hard, then. HaTe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 14:54 getting points is still necessary for the win in many cases. Or if a team only has the bar or hon left, and they need credits, against a team that has tanks...it's only fair that they get them by a…
creator: GEORGE ZIMMER
date: 2009-12-18T21:19:23-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: I feel that people have completely disregarded my earlier comment. Do you not realize that this is a perpetual argument, and will remain so until something here is actually put to test?
creator: BlueThen
date: 2009-12-18T22:05:57-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Quote: Black hand LCG, Engineer, Technician/Hotwire, Gunner, PIC Sydney/Raveshaw, and some others would like to have a word with you. Obviously i meant light infantry, the ones getting the points discussed in the pointsfix. Quote: LIGHT INFANTRY ARE NOT MEANT TO BE USED AGAINST TANKS. The ONLY reason people use them against tanks is because of pointsbug. With pointsfix, I guarantee there will be more anti-tank infantry on the field rather than some asshole shooting at your full health mammoth getting ridiculous amount of points doing absolutely nothing. OH NO HE CAN'T KILL THE TANK!!1 no shit sherlock, that's why you have the plethora of anti-tank infantry for that. But if they need to be, for credits, they can be useful. Also, for defense, a tank is shooting at you on under, you obviously have no chance of killing it if you are say, a soldier vs a med tank @ full life. The least the soldier can do is get points for defending himself. Quote: Anti-infantry units are, guess what- I know this might be hard to wrap your head around, but bear with me- USED TO FIGHT INFANTRY, NOT TANKS.. Once more, if you want anti-tank, GET AN ANTI TANK INFANTRY UNIT. If you want both, GET AN LCG/SBH/SOME SEMBLANCE OF SKILL. Insulting a person over the internet give a little eboner eh? Okay then. Once again, it's a credit issue, if you do not have credits, and no ref, GUESS WHAT!? You shoot tanks with light infantry, that's how it is done, it will be much harder to gain credits with the "pointsfix" in. "Sigh" at people attacking me, when i have already said i see both sides, really shows who is on the more defensive side here, with all of my opinions, some for, some against, i am yet to get flamed by an anti - pointsfix person...why so defensive? Quote: When it causes several members of your team to unfairly get points for doing absolutely nothing worthwhile except getting points and money, yes it is. That's a huge balance issue. The bold words really contradict yourself...except points …
creator: HaTe
date: 2009-12-18T22:40:14-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: BlueThen wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 16:05 I feel that people have completely disregarded my earlier comment. Do you not realize that this is a perpetual argument, and will remain so until something here is actually put to test? True (for the perpetual argument part), but for the most part, you have to agree that the pointsfix, even if it has its downsides, is undoubtedly better than without it. Besides that, pointsfix HAS been tested. So has pointsbug. Both have been tested, just not for every single server of Renegade. Pointsfix gets rid of retarded gameplay habits, while enforcing logical decisions (not having your WF being killed, using mammoth tanks more, using anti-tank infantry vs tanks rather than anti inf units).
creator: GEORGE ZIMMER
date: 2009-12-18T22:41:45-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Quote: True (for the perpetual argument part), but for the most part, you have to agree that the pointsfix, even if it has its downsides, is undoubtedly better than without it. . Pointsfix gets rid of retarded gameplay habits, while enforcing logical decisions (not having your WF being killed, using mammoth tanks more, using anti-tank infantry vs tanks rather than anti inf units). Opinions only, yours is no more superior than anyone elses last time i checked. I still am not FOR or AGAINST the pointsfix, i just think that if i need to adjust for something that won't make the game better, i don't see the point in it, but will still adjust to it (Being a since-release player, and a moderator).
creator: HaTe
date: 2009-12-18T22:45:39-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Quote: True (for the perpetual argument part), but for the most part, you have to agree that the pointsfix, even if it has its downsides, is undoubtedly better than without it. . Pointsfix gets rid of retarded gameplay habits, while enforcing logical decisions (not having your WF being killed, using mammoth tanks more, using anti-tank infantry vs tanks rather than anti inf units). I implied that the pointsfix should be put to test in the field, have a clan war in it or something. We know it works, it's just a matter of finding out whether or not players would adjust or enjoy it. Arguing is clearly not helping.
creator: BlueThen
date: 2009-12-18T22:53:46-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: BlueThen wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 16:53 Quote: True (for the perpetual argument part), but for the most part, you have to agree that the pointsfix, even if it has its downsides, is undoubtedly better than without it. . Pointsfix gets rid of retarded gameplay habits, while enforcing logical decisions (not having your WF being killed, using mammoth tanks more, using anti-tank infantry vs tanks rather than anti inf units). I implied that the pointsfix should be put to test in the field, have a clan war in it or something. We know it works, it's just a matter of finding out whether or not players would adjust or enjoy it. Arguing is clearly not helping. I couldn't agree more, i didn't come here to argue by any means, but was dragged into it when i was randomly blindsided by both Spoony and Mr. Zimmer, when posting my opinion. Testing is obviously the first logical movement. I have heard several players say that if the pointsfix is added, they will not play clanwars. Do we all think that more players will start clanwarring, then those who are going to leave it, with the pointsfix added? I don't believe so, but I would like nothing more than to be proven wrong. The more players, the better. Clan war's are a big part of Renegade again, we don't want them to die down again. So test it, see if the player counts go up, go down, or stay the same (of course assuming that player counts are already dropping), and then go on from there. It's obviously the logical thing to do, I don't see many players, if any, quitting clan war's all together, if the pointsfix is determined to decrease clan war players, and removed after testing.
creator: HaTe
date: 2009-12-18T22:57:27-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: HaTe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 16:40 Obviously i meant light infantry, the ones getting the points discussed in the pointsfix. If you read my next point, you'd see that this logic is retarded. Light infantry are not meant to be used against tanks. If they were, they would do damage to them. HaTe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 16:40 But if they need to be, for credits, they can be useful. Or they can help clear out infantry in tunnels. You know, being anti-infantry. Which is their purpose. HaTe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 16:40 Also, for defense, a tank is shooting at you on under, you obviously have no chance of killing it if you are say, a soldier vs a med tank @ full life. The least the soldier can do is get points for defending himself. Because clearly there's no such thing as other infantry. Yep, no such thing as grenadiers, flamethrowers, etc. ONLY light infantry. You clearly can't defend with anything else by running to a PT, right? HaTe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 16:40 Insulting a person over the internet give a little eboner eh? Okay then. Admittedly, that was a little out of line, but hot damn I don't see why you can't understand a simple concept of anti infantry are meant to kill infantry, anti tank are meant to kill tanks. Anti infantry SHOULD NOT get a shitton of points for dealing no damage. HaTe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 16:40 Once again, it's a credit issue, if you do not have credits, and no ref, GUESS WHAT!? You shoot tanks with light infantry, that's how it is done, Yes, that's how it's done, but that doesn't mean it's HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE. Back in the day it was acceptable to have blacks be slaves, because that's how it was done. Does that mean we should still have slaves? No, shit changes, and in this case, for the better. Boohoo, you have to change your tactics a little. But this way, it's way more logical and intended rather than using a stupid bug. HaTe wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 16:40 it will be much harder to gain credi…
creator: GEORGE ZIMMER
date: 2009-12-18T23:21:12-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Not even going to waist my time arguing with you, any person can see both the logic flaws, and the tripping on your own examples in your above post. Thing is, with your sakura and havoc example, that is not FAIR, because of the fact that no other unit would be able to kill them easily, unlike a heavy tanks vs light infantry. Also, bringing modernization into this by posting about slaves doesn't make much since to me at all, i at least saw your point in all of your other non-logic examples. I wasn't being more anti-pointsfix at all, just said that if it is put in to Renegade, then the changes better be for the better, based on ALL of Renegade players, not just ones who happen to post on this forums. Yet you attack me by saying this, proving my point that the pro-pointsfix crowd is mainly all on the forums, attacking any anti-pointsfix people, while the anti-pointsfix people are not waisting their time with it, and are, well, actually playing the game (Not whining about what should be, could have been, and what we may or may not improve.) Oops, i did argue just a little, i guess we are even. Wait, i didn't quote you once, i must be the loser here, eh? Please, use more sarcasm in a logical argument. Like i said, not even waisting my time with your other points, when most of them are so very....flawed in so many ways, that i don't feel i have to point them out, and feel that you already know how. If not, then you should clearly read into communism (Not much better than your slave example, i know). Seems you have beaten me based on the fact that I could care less about what you say, as you are obviously emotionally attached to this whole pointsfix thing, and i could really care less. I've been posting more about what the general Renegade population (based on things i've seen while ease dropping in Renegade, and on irc) has to say, rather than my own opinion, due to me bringing up points that they would make, if they were actually in this argument. Please, correct me in a…
creator: HaTe
date: 2009-12-18T23:38:00-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: mr zimmer, uve never even played clanwars before so u dont know how it affects the game. i said mesa would be ruined by pointfix and it was. i said field would be ruined and it wouldve been if not for the harv block rule that had to be added. the gameplay is slower because theres less money, u might aswell give up if u get a shitty start on city fly, and infantry now has no chance in an infantry vs tank game on rush maps. but hey, atleast we can all rest easy in the fact that the nod shooter at the front of their base wont get any points he doesnt deserve as i role into his base with a mammy, right!?
creator: ELiT3FLyR
date: 2009-12-19T00:45:31-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: ELiT3FLyR wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 18:45 mr zimmer, uve never even played clanwars before so u dont know how it affects the game. i said mesa would be ruined by pointfix and it was. i said field would be ruined and it wouldve been if not for the harv block rule that had to be added. the gameplay is slower because theres less money, u might aswell give up if u get a shitty start on city fly, and infantry now has no chance in an infantry vs tank game on rush maps. but hey, atleast we can all rest easy in the fact that the nod shooter at the front of their base wont get any points he doesnt deserve as i role into his base with a mammy, right!? Tanks > Infantry... that's how it should be, unless you got cordinated rave/pics and/or volt auto rifles and maybe ramjets for anti arty/mrls... If you don't wanna be stuck with the disadvantage of not having tanks... PROTECT YOU AS/WF. And no the shooter at the front of Nod's base shouldn't get any points for shooting the mammoth as he is not doing any damage... You argue these points like they would be good for the antipointfix cause... when really to someone with common sense it just makes you guys look like lazy fuckers who don't wanna played the game how it is supposed to be but still wanna win.
creator: ChewML
date: 2009-12-19T00:54:18-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: BlueThen wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 15:05 I feel that people have completely disregarded my earlier comment. Do you not realize that this is a perpetual argument, and will remain so until something here is actually put to test? OK, um, I guess there are several people in this forum thread that do not realize that the n00bstories.com server has been running with the "pointsfix" aka the Westwood-intended points and economy system for about 2 and a half years. To say that it hasn't been tested in a real game environment is laughable.
creator: Crimson
date: 2009-12-19T01:17:16-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Crimson wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 19:17 BlueThen wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 15:05 I feel that people have completely disregarded my earlier comment. Do you not realize that this is a perpetual argument, and will remain so until something here is actually put to test? OK, um, I guess there are several people in this forum thread that do not realize that the n00bstories.com server has been running with the "pointsfix" aka the Westwood-intended points and economy system for about 2 and a half years. To say that it hasn't been tested in a real game environment is laughable. Then why are we arguing? This should be obvious by now.
creator: BlueThen
date: 2009-12-19T01:40:18-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: The main issue is adding it in to clanwars, and whether to keep it there or not, if i'm not mistaken.
creator: HaTe
date: 2009-12-19T01:44:14-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: HaTe wrote Why is that? The infantry can't do anything but get points, and hopefully lay a c4 on the tank...if you take away the points, what good are light infantry against armored tanks at all? they're not supposed to be very good against heavy armoured tanks, otherwise what would be the point of buying weapons which ARE good against heavy armoured tanks? (rav/PIC, a tank of your own, gunner, LCG...) still, they are of some use as a last resort. engineers rushing an APC/tank can at least push it back and buy your team a bit of time, or you can fix your teammates or a vehicle... in other words, you can stop trying to get points for doing absolutely nothing, and do something useful instead because there's always, always something helpful you can be doing. Quote: Some people enjoy not sitting in a tank all game, so the infantry part has to come in play somewhere. rav/pics and havocs are still very worthwhile, lcgs+gunners+snipers have their uses, hotwires and techs are crucial... you don't need to get points for absolutely no reason for infantry to be helpful. Quote: Getting points for an infantry unit shooting an armored tank is no need for a whole discussion.... yes it is, considering what a glaring balance issue it is. Quote: Or say there is a tank limit, and someone does not want to sit and repair a tank all game, getting points is still necessary for the win in many cases. so get a rav/pic/ramjet/gunner/lcg, since they're reasonably powerful and doing damage gets you points or suck it up and heal your team's vehicles, what's your problem with doing that? it certainly helps the team. Quote: Or if a team only has the bar or hon left, and they need credits, against a team that has tanks...it's only fair that they get them by actually shooting the tanks. no it's not. they're achieving absolutely nothing, why should they get credits for it? Quote: You try and make all opposing look like idiots by proving them wrong with quotes in my opinion, and are not helping your …
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-19T01:52:50-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Quote: You argue these points like they would be good for the antipointfix cause... when really to someone with common sense it just makes you guys look like lazy fuckers who don't wanna played the game how it is supposed to be but still wanna win. figures someone from this forum would think that the fact i get a few points for shooting tanks with shooters outweighs all the facts above it.
creator: ELiT3FLyR
date: 2009-12-19T01:56:22-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Goztow wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 14:47 cmatt42 wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 19:17 Goztow wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 01:26 For Renegade of course. I'm fully aware that TT shouldn't include balance changes, but the keyword here is should. I want to be damn sure it doesn't before it's pushed. The fact if something is a bug or a balance issue can be different in the eye of the beholder, as was shown in the past. I think this is the most nonsensical post I've ever seen you write. OK, one word: POINTSFIX. This is why we are discussing it again. So how bout a poll? I will start one in another thread. With specific topics to debate. As this thread is on page 4 and the antipointfix camp has lost due to someone's sexuality being challenged for nonsexual related ideas.
creator: ChewML
date: 2009-12-19T01:58:51-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: ELiT3FLyR wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 19:56 Quote: You argue these points like they would be good for the antipointfix cause... when really to someone with common sense it just makes you guys look like lazy fuckers who don't wanna played the game how it is supposed to be but still wanna win. figures someone from this forum would think that the fact i get a few points for shooting tanks with shooters outweighs all the facts above it. I also addressed the part about infantry versus tanks... As for the part about it ruining maps... If you think that it ruins maps you prolly shouldn't even play Renegade as you cleary don't know how it should be played (and no I haven't played CW, and no I don't give a shit how much you have).
creator: ChewML
date: 2009-12-19T02:03:51-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: BlueThen wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 16:05 I feel that people have completely disregarded my earlier comment. Do you not realize that this is a perpetual argument, and will remain so until something here is actually put to test? well, *i* feel that you completely disregarded my direct response to your earlier comment. here's what i said. of course you can't "instantly conclude" that, that's why i've insisted on a great deal of balance testing. as far as clanwars go, the results have been better than i'd hoped; all of my theories turned out to be absolutely right. every game on the new system has gone to the right clan; that was definitely NOT the case before. incidentally, quite a few people on the anti-pointsfix side have took their usual approach. during the initial testing they embarked on a campaign of lies, manipulation and sabotage to try to get it removed from the clanwar servers, then later lied to everybody and said they did test the full pointsfix (untrue). i'd have loved to "skip all the politics" there, but the anti-pointsfix crowd had other ideas. still, they utterly failed, the pointsfix is where it should be and the clanwars league just had the best month it's had in years. result. still, if people still want to talk about the pointsfix being applied "democratically", then you're not entitled to forget what its opponents did during the testing period. seems like i answered you quite extensively here? it's been a huge success in clanwars, in spite of despicable tactics from the anti-pointsfix brigade. simpee wrote mr zimmer, uve never even played clanwars before so u dont know how it affects the game. well, you've played a lot of clanwars, but that hasn't stopped you being absolutely dead wrong over and over and over and over and over again. Quote: i said mesa would be ruined by pointfix and it was. this is really dishonest of you, simpee. (again.) check my earlier posts; i conceded that WITHOUT THE MAP FIXED, mesa isn't so fair. i said right from t…
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-19T02:05:54-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Spoony wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 20:05 BlueThen wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 16:05 I feel that people have completely disregarded my earlier comment. Do you not realize that this is a perpetual argument, and will remain so until something here is actually put to test? well, *i* feel that you completely disregarded my direct response to your earlier comment. here's what i said. of course you can't "instantly conclude" that, that's why i've insisted on a great deal of balance testing. as far as clanwars go, the results have been better than i'd hoped; all of my theories turned out to be absolutely right. every game on the new system has gone to the right clan; that was definitely NOT the case before. incidentally, quite a few people on the anti-pointsfix side have took their usual approach. during the initial testing they embarked on a campaign of lies, manipulation and sabotage to try to get it removed from the clanwar servers, then later lied to everybody and said they did test the full pointsfix (untrue). i'd have loved to "skip all the politics" there, but the anti-pointsfix crowd had other ideas. still, they utterly failed, the pointsfix is where it should be and the clanwars league just had the best month it's had in years. result. still, if people still want to talk about the pointsfix being applied "democratically", then you're not entitled to forget what its opponents did during the testing period. I must've missed your response.
creator: BlueThen
date: 2009-12-19T03:58:43-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Honestly the Renegade Points system sucks with or without the points fix... I've noticed a trend forming in newer games, Points go on the kill, not on the individual damage(aside from Kill Damage Assists). Ex: Kill = 2pts Kill Assist = 1pt Vehicle Kill = 2pts Vehicle Kill Assist = 1 Kill Assists = person who does the most support damage. If I shoot someone/something and it get's repaired my damage is negated. Repairing is rewarded based on how much damage you repair. Say for every 250pts of damage = 1pt (would have to be tweaked to work in renegade) Building Kills = no idea how many points this should be worth. not kill = 100pts damage before kill = 10,000pts spread out amongst 5 other players (yes that's wish full thinking) I understand that this is much harder than just using the released points system, or the modified/corrected points system. I do admire the passion of the people still putting an effort into this game. Hopefully it works out.
creator: kadoosh
date: 2009-12-19T04:12:21-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: kadoosh wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 22:12 Honestly the Renegade Points system sucks with or without the points fix... I've noticed a trend forming in newer games, Points go on the kill, not on the individual damage(aside from Kill Damage Assists). Ex: Kill = 2pts Kill Assist = 1pt Vehicle Kill = 2pts Vehicle Kill Assist = 1 Kill Assists = person who does the most support damage. If I shoot someone/something and it get's repaired my damage is negated. Repairing is rewarded based on how much damage you repair. Say for every 250pts of damage = 1pt (would have to be tweaked to work in renegade) Building Kills = no idea how many points this should be worth. not kill = 100pts damage before kill = 10,000pts spread out amongst 5 other players (yes that's wish full thinking) I understand that this is much harder than just using the released points system, or the modified/corrected points system. I do admire the passion of the people still putting an effort into this game. Hopefully it works out. here are the facts. with the original points and economy system (aka pointsfix): the total points gained for killing a unit is 10% of the unit's cost, give or take a point for rounding up/down. so 80 for a med, 50 for an APC, 35 for a hotwire etc etc etc. half of that amount is gained by damaging the unit to very-nearly-dead. the other half is awarded on the actual kill. with buildings it's roughly the same principle. 750 points overall for killing a building, 250 of which is the final kill bonus. eg it takes five remotes to kill a building. say you had five remotes and you used them one after another. you'd get 100, then 100, then 100, then 100, then 350 (100+250) points for repairing: half the points the enemy got doing the damage in the first place. without the pointsfix, the points gained against green-health tanks is all over the place.
creator: Spoony
date: 2009-12-19T04:26:06-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: Spoony wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 23:26 kadoosh wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 22:12 Honestly the Renegade Points system sucks with or without the points fix... I've noticed a trend forming in newer games, Points go on the kill, not on the individual damage(aside from Kill Damage Assists). Ex: Kill = 2pts Kill Assist = 1pt Vehicle Kill = 2pts Vehicle Kill Assist = 1 Kill Assists = person who does the most support damage. If I shoot someone/something and it get's repaired my damage is negated. Repairing is rewarded based on how much damage you repair. Say for every 250pts of damage = 1pt (would have to be tweaked to work in renegade) Building Kills = no idea how many points this should be worth. not kill = 100pts damage before kill = 10,000pts spread out amongst 5 other players (yes that's wish full thinking) I understand that this is much harder than just using the released points system, or the modified/corrected points system. I do admire the passion of the people still putting an effort into this game. Hopefully it works out. here are the facts. with the original points and economy system (aka pointsfix): the total points gained for killing a unit is 10% of the unit's cost, give or take a point for rounding up/down. so 80 for a med, 50 for an APC, 35 for a hotwire etc etc etc. half of that amount is gained by damaging the unit to very-nearly-dead. the other half is awarded on the actual kill. with buildings it's roughly the same principle. 750 points overall for killing a building, 250 of which is the final kill bonus. eg it takes five remotes to kill a building. say you had five remotes and you used them one after another. you'd get 100, then 100, then 100, then 100, then 350 (100+250) points for repairing: half the points the enemy got doing the damage in the first place. without the pointsfix, the points gained against green-health tanks is all over the place. If all that was directed at my (wish full thinking) comment, then ... what ever you say. It makes…
creator: kadoosh
date: 2009-12-19T04:47:02-00:00

Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :(
type: item
description: If you play as a team, it doesn't matter WHO in your team gets the points on kill as long as the total amount is correct. If you play individually, then your remark about how the kill points are rewarded would be significant. But guess what: Renegade is supposed to be all about teamplay.
creator: Goztow
date: 2009-12-19T08:39:12-00:00