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C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
I'm not really clear on what's going on when it comes to skins. When the patch is out, will the auto-downloader insure that everyone is using the same skins? If that is the case, then I have two comments: 1. What about special skins that mappers put into their maps? Like if a mapper decides to make all the vehicles have snow camo in a snow map. 2. I had an idea: What about "event skins?" Like special skins designed for specific events and holidays? Like a Christmas skin theme for all the vehicles around Christmas time, or a spooky theme for around Halloween? Sort of how like some RPG games decorate their maps and lobbies for holidays.
The idea is that the server can provide these packages and make them required for the clients. The client can possibly have overrides that are allowed by the server (but this is in developement, I can't give details because changes may be made here). Both situations seem perfectly possible with the current design for the resource manager though.
That would be awesome to see such events happening in Renegade
R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 03:20 2. I had an idea: What about "event skins?" Like special skins designed for specific events and holidays? Like a Christmas skin theme for all the vehicles around Christmas time, or a spooky theme for around Halloween? Sort of how like some RPG games decorate their maps and lobbies for holidays.
LiL KiLLa wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 14:48 R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 03:20 2. I had an idea: What about "event skins?" Like special skins designed for specific events and holidays? Like a Christmas skin theme for all the vehicles around Christmas time, or a spooky theme for around Halloween? Sort of how like some RPG games decorate their maps and lobbies for holidays.
If this comes out I'm quitting renegade, atleast for awhile. Idea 2 is kind of kool.
Glock~ wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 11:39 I'm quitting renegade. Win
Gen_Blacky wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 20:29 Glock~ wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 11:39 I'm quitting renegade. Win
Follow the rules of posting please.
Carrier i like you but sometimes you're a wiener i'm also unsure how the patch will affect skins; is the idea to remove all skins to ensure fairer gameplay?
liquidv2 wrote on Sun, 28 June 2009 06:13 Carrier i like you but sometimes you're a wiener i'm also unsure how the patch will affect skins; is the idea to remove all skins to ensure fairer gameplay? That's (again) up to the server owner. He will probably able to choose between: - classic mode (game loads everything from always.something (classic skins, or if they're modified downloads those from the server); - hybrid, it allows certain skins that are approved by the serverowner - open, it will allow all skins and models.
At a time, someone also said there would be some classes, for example stealth class, which could be disabled. Is this still planned? I personally would choose to disable any stealth skin / sound and any c4 skin / sound.
but what about the "c4 is set, fire in the hole!"
ErroR wrote on Sun, 28 June 2009 12:53 but what about the "c4 is set, fire in the hole!" That's not a "sound skin", it's a sound that's already in the always.dat.
then the C4 won't have the original file anymore, and it will make you download the original (server approved) file. and the blocking stealth of skins is easy, just not allow any skins unless requested and checked.
What i mean is that sbh, stank, c4's aren't allowed to have skins (unless verified by the serevr owner) but for all the rest we don't care.
is it possible for an actual skin/model to be verified, i mean its the same file name. For example stealth effect, there is a blue stealth effect and a rainbow, and the blue one is checked and allowed, but the rainbow one is not allowed, so the one with the rainbow one will get the server's one, but the other one will keep his one? Oh yeah confusing as hell
Don't know whether I understood what you meant, but I think you're asking whether the server can allow only specific custom skins? That will most probably be possible. eg. Server uses default skin. Player A has custom skin X installed, which is not allowed. Player A will use the default skin. Player B has custom skin Y installed, which is allowed. Player B can use skin Y.
sigh.. playing with the standard skins is just boring
People who need fancy graphics and custom skins to enjoy great gameplay ruin the gaming industry imo...
So you'd be fine playing 8-bit style games for the rest of your life?
Xena wrote on Sun, 28 June 2009 18:21 sigh.. playing with the standard skins is just boring DISAGREE! I dont have any custom skins xD
bakerrrr wrote on Sun, 28 June 2009 17:02 So you'd be fine playing 8-bit style games for the rest of your life? Hey, I grew up playing those crazy mario games and they were fucking awesome!
u dont think games like GTA IV and other next gen games r awesome?
Boxxy wrote on Mon, 29 June 2009 20:56 u dont think games like GTA IV and other next gen games r awesome? They are, but graphics don't make or break a game. Gameplay does. Graphics may help in the gameplay experiance, but is certainly not the most important
the game Crysis is only known because of how demanding it is and how good of a computer you need to run it well; i've never heard a thing about what it's like or if it's even fun at all people don't play renegade because it has cutting edge bad ass sexy graphics; they play it because it's awesome and because there's no other game like it there really is not, and it's a shame
liquidv2 wrote on Tue, 30 June 2009 03:38 the game Crysis is only known because of how demanding it is and how good of a computer you need to run it well; i've never heard a thing about what it's like or if it's even fun at all ... It is cool. Graphics are awesome and has a good storyline. Warhead is kinda short though But if your PC can handle it i would say give it a try liquidv2 wrote on Tue, 30 June 2009 03:38 ... people don't play renegade because it has cutting edge bad ass sexy graphics; they play it because it's awesome and because there's no other game like it there really is not, and it's a shame
StealthEye wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 03:21 The idea is that the server can provide these packages and make them required for the clients. The client can possibly have overrides that are allowed by the server (but this is in developement, I can't give details because changes may be made here). Both situations seem perfectly possible with the current design for the resource manager though. When this happens, I'm going to quit renegade, and never look back. Yes, for real this time, I will quit renegade, because skinning was the only reason I came back, and if one of MY skins was disallowed simply because of this, I would /ragequit, and listen to my friends saying "Yeah, that Renegayd game was a peice of shit." And I could only agree if they say "is".
So wait, you would quit this game just because you couldn't have a few skins? I love skins as much as the next person but I would never quit a game just because of something stupid as that, granted the default skins could use a bit of touching up but most people don't play this game because of how it looks. (Check out the graphics)
IAmFenix wrote on Fri, 02 October 2009 22:53 StealthEye wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 03:21 The idea is that the server can provide these packages and make them required for the clients. The client can possibly have overrides that are allowed by the server (but this is in developement, I can't give details because changes may be made here). Both situations seem perfectly possible with the current design for the resource manager though. When this happens, I'm going to quit renegade, and never look back. Yes, for real this time, I will quit renegade, because skinning was the only reason I came back, and if one of MY skins was disallowed simply because of this, I would /ragequit, and listen to my friends saying "Yeah, that Renegayd game was a peice of shit." And I could only agree if they say "is". Good riddance!
As far as I know there probably will be enough servers that only will block like scope/stealth/c4/beaconskins. So you can still make plenty use of your skins. Also what I would do is find a server that isnt blocking your skin. There are tons of servers and probably alot will allow skins. I mean 'oh noes I cant use my scope skin' well then there is still a lot of different skins you can edit. And to quit a game because you cannot use one skin would be a bit stupid. Also there is no harm done yet. Who says it will be?
Skins are a big factor in playing Ren for me (especially when it was a skin I made) but I have simply deleted all my skins before, reverting back to the original skins, and didn't mind it too much. Skins are nice, but if it's a choice between skins and gameplay, gameplay wins by a landslide.
Altzan wrote on Sat, 03 October 2009 16:02 Skins are a big factor in playing Ren for me (especially when it was a skin I made) but I have simply deleted all my skins before, reverting back to the original skins, and didn't mind it too much. Skins are nice, but if it's a choice between skins and gameplay, gameplay wins by a landslide. If you made good skins and you want to use them with TT, you can always send them to the serverowner so he can add them to the allow list. That way you can even keep using your skins while using TT. And, the advantage of TT is that even if the server does not allow your skins, you'll just load the default ones. If you then get in a server that does allow them, your skins will load.
Just to be clear on this. Right now, we do NOT cheat check any skins other than the stealth and custom scope skins. A decision on whether to cheat check other skins in the way we cheat check w3d files has yet to be made.
So if I get it correct all w3d files will currently be checked and switched to default? (Given that the server file checks) So say it is my favorite server. All I have to do is then mail the serverowner the w3d so he can check and allow it? Seems easy done. Thing is wouldn't this give a lot of serverowners a headache? Like will TT maintain a list of skins that are allowed? (So serverowners can look at tt.ini which list a lot of the allowed skins?) Also will it be possible to revert everyones hud to default with TT and only allow certain huds(like only skinned huds and no hud with minecounter etc)?
We will probably make a hashing tool publically available where skin makers/modellers can hash their own stuff and then post the hash when they post the mod/skin so server owners can just take it from there if they want.
With regard to HUDs, all the "cheat HUDs" like building health, mine counter and so on (all of which require new code in shaders.dll) will all be blocked because we will be cheat checking shaders.dll (along with all other dlls)
What if you make a Mod and code some in shaders.dll or scripts.dll??
We will make it possible for mod makers to get their shaders/scripts verified.
jonwil wrote on Sun, 04 October 2009 15:32 With regard to HUDs, all the "cheat HUDs" like building health, mine counter and so on (all of which require new code in shaders.dll) will all be blocked because we will be cheat checking shaders.dll (along with all other dlls) Oh yeah! Awesome.
Anyone who has changed shaders.dll or scripts.dll (or has done other binary changes such as a hacked game exe) for a mod and wants their changes approved so they can use the anti-cheat on their servers will be able to send them to us to get them digitally signed after we verify the changes to make sure they arent opening any cheat-related loopholes.
please, please make it so that a server can disallow custom sounds... loud beacons and stank engines are so much more of an advantage than bright c4.
Spoony wrote on Mon, 05 October 2009 19:29 please, please make it so that a server can disallow custom sounds... loud beacons and stank engines are so much more of an advantage than bright c4. than make the stank engine at least hearable
ErroR wrote on Mon, 05 October 2009 14:06 Spoony wrote on Mon, 05 October 2009 19:29 please, please make it so that a server can disallow custom sounds... loud beacons and stank engines are so much more of an advantage than bright c4. than make the stank engine at least hearable *SHAKES HEAD*
It's loud as it is. It's supposed to be stealthy, if it sounded like an Orca, what'd be the point of it...
RTsa wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 13:24 It's loud as it is. It's supposed to be stealthy, if it sounded like an Orca, what'd be the point of it... thing is i don't hear it AT ALL, but the loading screen thing says, listen to the engines to find them
Spoony wrote on Mon, 05 October 2009 10:29 please, please make it so that a server can disallow custom sounds... loud beacons and stank engines are so much more of an advantage than bright c4. I hope your kidding, most people play music while they play ren. I'd pick up on the bright yellow C4 a lot quicker than some little beep sound. Or a bright yellow beacon. Remember, you guys are implementing wide-screen, which makes the game look better for some, but is viewed as a cheat from other's view points, at the same time you threaten to remove skins, which make the game look better for some, but others consider it a cheat. Toggle Spoiler People like skins, and people like good graphics, I do believe ren now has some competition that is developing game-play that's a lot like ren, only thing it really doesn't have is the ability to skin, once that is gone, why not play the version that looks better? Some people also believe that game-play > graphics, but thats an opinion really, just think about it, wouldn't their be a lot more people still playing ren if graphics really didn't matter?
I don't know anyone who listens to music while playing. :-S I'm sure they exist, though.
Jerad Gray wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 19:33 Spoony wrote on Mon, 05 October 2009 10:29 please, please make it so that a server can disallow custom sounds... loud beacons and stank engines are so much more of an advantage than bright c4. I hope your kidding, most people play music while they play ren. I'd pick up on the bright yellow C4 a lot quicker than some little beep sound. Or a bright yellow beacon. Remember, you guys are implementing wide-screen, which makes the game look better for some, but is viewed as a cheat from other's view points, at the same time you threaten to remove skins, which make the game look better for some, but others consider it a cheat. Toggle Spoiler People like skins, and people like good graphics, I do believe ren now has some competition that is developing game-play that's a lot like ren, only thing it really doesn't have is the ability to skin, once that is gone, why not play the version that looks better? Some people also believe that game-play > graphics, but thats an opinion really, just think about it, wouldn't their be a lot more people still playing ren if graphics really didn't matter? Widescreen doesnt change much. You just get the pixels ordered differently. You'll lose some view down and at the top, and get some left and right. Also, if you would read, then you would've noticed that we are giving serverowners the option to allow, disallow or whitelist skins.
Jerad Gray wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:33 Some people also believe that game-play > graphics, but thats an opinion really, just think about it, wouldn't their be a lot more people still playing ren if graphics really didn't matter? There are more people that play still play Pokemon: Red Version than play Crysis. What does that tell you?
It's less of ren's graphics and moreso its buggy physics (no, not physics that apply to the vehicle the Nod Buggy), pretty bad netcode, difficult to get used to (read: isn't retardedly easy) gameplay, and somewhat lackluster features (which, there'd have been very many if Westwood had finished the game) that push people away from Renegade.
Dover wrote on Sun, 11 October 2009 03:43 Jerad Gray wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:33 Some people also believe that game-play > graphics, but thats an opinion really, just think about it, wouldn't their be a lot more people still playing ren if graphics really didn't matter? There are more people that play still play Pokemon: Red Version than play Crysis. What does that tell you? Pokemon Red version was awesome :>
Ghostshaw wrote on Sun, 11 October 2009 03:13 Pokemon Red version is awesome :> Fix'd. Although I'm a G/S/C generation fan, myself.
Dover wrote on Sun, 11 October 2009 06:42 Ghostshaw wrote on Sun, 11 October 2009 03:13 Pokemon Red version is awesome :> Fix'd. Although I'm a G/S/C generation fan, myself. Classic pokemon's the only way to go. The rest sucks balls.
Nah G/S/C are pretty much classic as well.
GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sun, 11 October 2009 09:39 Dover wrote on Sun, 11 October 2009 06:42 Ghostshaw wrote on Sun, 11 October 2009 03:13 Pokemon Red version is awesome :> Fix'd. Although I'm a G/S/C generation fan, myself. Classic pokemon's the only way to go. The rest sucks balls. The problem with the original 151 is that they are very poorly balanced,. There is no grass type or ghost type that does not also carry the burden of being part poison type, which makes them all garbage against psychic types. There are also no damaging moves that are bug type or ghost type, further strengthening psychic's hand. The ideal team in R/B/Y is five Alakazams and a Mewtwo. This is somewhat rectified in G/S/C with the introduction of the dark type, and the separation of the specattk and specdef stats. It isn't until R/S/E that balance is truely perfected, but by then the pokemanz get way too weird and abstract. G/S/C is the ideal generation.</nerdrant>
EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sat, 10 October 2009 19:39 Jerad Gray wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 19:33 Spoony wrote on Mon, 05 October 2009 10:29 please, please make it so that a server can disallow custom sounds... loud beacons and stank engines are so much more of an advantage than bright c4. I hope your kidding, most people play music while they play ren. I'd pick up on the bright yellow C4 a lot quicker than some little beep sound. Or a bright yellow beacon. Remember, you guys are implementing wide-screen, which makes the game look better for some, but is viewed as a cheat from other's view points, at the same time you threaten to remove skins, which make the game look better for some, but others consider it a cheat. Toggle Spoiler People like skins, and people like good graphics, I do believe ren now has some competition that is developing game-play that's a lot like ren, only thing it really doesn't have is the ability to skin, once that is gone, why not play the version that looks better? Some people also believe that game-play > graphics, but thats an opinion really, just think about it, wouldn't their be a lot more people still playing ren if graphics really didn't matter? Widescreen doesnt change much. You just get the pixels ordered differently. You'll lose some view down and at the top, and get some left and right. Also, if you would read, then you would've noticed that we are giving serverowners the option to allow, disallow or whitelist skins. What about the ability to allow/disallow widescreen? See I don't worry much about people who have special textures in game, thats always been a issue and it never really bother me much, but the ability to see more left and right when you are camping in a corner could be very useful. Dover wrote on Sat, 10 October 2009 19:43 Jerad Gray wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:33 Some people also believe that game-play > graphics, but thats an opinion really, just think about it, wouldn't their be a lot more people still playing ren if graphics really didn't matter? There are more people that play still play Pokemon: Red Version than play Crysis. What does that tell you? That there are too many Pokemon fans around lol. Ren is currently very easy to change/skin, people like that, would people still play Pokemon red if I took out a chunk of the game after its release? I'd also like to point out your comparing a FPS to a... ?RPG? ?Strategy game? I don't know, its not an FPS though. Do you think anyone would play Crysis if it had Pokemon red graphics?
Jerad Gray wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 11:24 Do you think anyone would play Crysis if it had Pokemon red graphics? Shit, I would. I would be able to play that.
Jerad Gray wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 09:24 Ren is currently very easy to change/skin, people like that, would people still play Pokemon red if I took out a chunk of the game after its release? Funny you should mention that--Every generation of pokemon games are heavily modifiable. This is especially true of the GBA-era games, and there are more mods for that era of games than there are pokemon games in the entire series. They just aren't played as often because; 1) they're third-party and 2) Most of them kind of suck hard. Of course, most of them have shinier (Or at least, newer) graphics, further reinforcing the point that the superiod game play of the core games beats out the "improved" graphics of the mods. Jerad Gray wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 09:24 I'd also like to point out your comparing a FPS to a... ?RPG? ?Strategy game? I don't know, its not an FPS though. You're missing the point. I'm simply reinforcing the fact that gameplay > graphics Jerad Gray wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 09:24 Do you think anyone would play Crysis if it had Pokemon red graphics? You're asking the wrong question. The question you're looking for is "Would people actually play Crysis if it had Pokemon Red's level of game play?", and the answer is yes.
How would learscope be affected by these options serverside?
How will you be checking for cheat skins? Using a CRC/MD5/whatever hash check? Checking the bytes one by one? Just wondering...
Hash is indeed how it will work. I won't reveal the hashing technique used obviously
Dover wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 01:40 Jerad Gray wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 09:24 I'd also like to point out your comparing a FPS to a... ?RPG? ?Strategy game? I don't know, its not an FPS though. You're missing the point. I'm simply reinforcing the fact that gameplay > graphics. No, that depends on the person, especially if there is another game that mimics the the first game's game-play and has better graphics. And as many people have pointed out, who plays Crysis for its game-play? Dover wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 01:40 Jerad Gray wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 09:24 Do you think anyone would play Crysis if it had Pokemon red graphics? You're asking the wrong question. The question you're looking for is "Would people actually play Crysis if it had Pokemon Red's level of game play?", and the answer is yes. Let me promise you that I'm asking the correct question, once more: As many people have pointed out, who plays Crysis for its game-play?
Ghostshaw wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 16:23 Hash is indeed how it will work. I won't reveal the hashing technique used obviously Could be bypassed if I'm right, since there is a lot of software out there, which allows people to change the hash of a file. Which, if correctly, can be used to make advantage skins look like original skins or allowed skins.
That depends on what hash you use. It's possible for CRC, but you won't be able to do that for hashes like MD5 or SHA1.
The one trying to bypass skin hash will be a very, very sad person...
theres also the error if some has a certain skin it crashes ppl from serv if its not the original skin on the character or vehicle.
I just hope there are some servers out there that don't go nazi on all skins and models... I do understand the blocking of certain material though.
StealthEye wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 19:53 That depends on what hash you use. It's possible for CRC, but you won't be able to do that for hashes like MD5 or SHA1. I had this program which allowed me to change the MD5 hash too. For SHA1 I don't know.
Chew wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 21:17 I just hope there are some servers out there that don't go nazi on all skins and models... I do understand the blocking of certain material though. Well, we @ BlackIntel will surely create a whitelist for skins that we allow. Though that whitelist would be pretty strict, it would surely allow quite some really nice skins.
EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sat, 24 October 2009 04:46 Chew wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 21:17 I just hope there are some servers out there that don't go nazi on all skins and models... I do understand the blocking of certain material though. Well, we @ BlackIntel will surely create a whitelist for skins that we allow. Though that whitelist would be pretty strict, it would surely allow quite some really nice skins. But no models I take it? I am currently trying to figure out ways to use other characters from ren online.
I'd quite like custom mixs and map models to be allowed, but I don't see it happening.
Models and skins that match the server version of the file are allowed by default.
Goztow wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 20:08 The one trying to bypass skin hash will be a very, very sad person... And even then, it still happens. All cheaters are sad persons.