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Should a hud be able to show building health, mines, and other stuff and be considered fair? I've noticed that there's been a lot of debate in the mod forums about how Custom Huds showing extra information to the player should be unallowed. Discuss. Edit: Oops, wrong forum. can a mod move this to heated discussions and debates?
If scrin's cheats are allowed, custom huds sure are.
RoShamBo wrote on Tue, 06 January 2009 14:59 If scrin's cheats are allowed, custom huds sure are.
Why not in public games...Doesn't really matter THAT much. I could see it being used as an advantage in competitive games though
Its basicly "!c4" and the "K" key. Why should it be called a cheat? No seriously? its like taking the seconds to hid and type words, that shouldnt be a cheat. :S I understand, that "how many sbh does the enemy has" "how many nukes/ion does the enemy has" should be cheats, but the mine limint and building health, simple stuff that wont change anything.
If it provides you with information that someone without the custom HUD wouldn't have at all (mine limit), then it is a cheat. If you can see on your HUD information which another player must bring up a view-obscuring status screen to obtain (building health), then it is a cheat. If you can see through a normally opaque display while another player might have a blind spot because of it, then you are also cheating. You aren't creating the sort of disgusting imbalance that a wallhacker would, but you're still loading yourself with advantages that other players do not have. We aren't talking about 'lock camera to turret' radio button here; if the change cannot be made from inside the game using the settings menu then it has no place in an online match. The only exceptions I can see to that are custom crosshairs and color changes.
I do agree that it's an advantage. But definitely not as much so that it should be restricted. Although you can be told about building health and c4 limit, it doesn't really give you the advantage of being able to repair it from anywhere. It'd be as useful as the "k" command, but probably used more often. If anything, I think it should be for the server to decide and if TT can make it possible, have it just plain disable the hud rather than keeping the player out.
You don't even need to type "!c4", pressing the "End" key does the same thing (that's the standard shortcut anyway) It's only about .5 of a second faster at best, but the point about transparent displays allowing you to view what were previously "blind spots" is correct, that is unfair.
I think, that TT should make a hud, then put it in the TT. So, when ever it releases, we all would have the same hud, so it wont be considered as a cheat.
YazooGang wrote on Tue, 06 January 2009 15:51 I think, that TT should make a hud, then put it in the TT. So, when ever it releases, we all would have the same hud, so it wont be considered as a cheat. I want to use the Old HUD.
An advantage essentially means something that is not standard to the general public, and is something that's good for you. Therefore, it's an advantage. It'd only not be if it's standard for everyone.
YazooGang wrote on Tue, 06 January 2009 15:51 I think, that TT should make a hud, then put it in the TT. So, when ever it releases, we all would have the same hud, so it wont be considered as a cheat. Maybe not make their own hud, but add on to the initial hud, and add command lines which could toggle these things on or off.
CarrierII wrote on Tue, 06 January 2009 15:16 You don't even need to type "!c4", pressing the "End" key does the same thing (that's the standard shortcut anyway) So wait? if I don't have corepatch installed then I have no way of using this tool, and would have to stop, press f2, and type !c4 in game, as apposed to mapping the !c4 to a single button ( you can change it from "end" to anything else) So wait, by you having core patch and I don't then you would have an advantage over me. Corepatch isn't officially supported by EA/Westwood so it's not a standard. Many players are not currently using corepatch. For example, right now in n00bsvr01: (07:17:47) @/n00bsvr01 > There are 28 Core Patch users and 16 no-CP users online So 28 people have an advantage over 16 people? I know its not an advantage to the same degree has building code, but its the same idea of having something else another person doesn't have, by default.
You don't make specific what an advantage HUD is. In my opinion, a HUD that shows building health and mine limits are not a cheat. However HUDs that show information that people elsewhere would have to physically check or simply don't have access to should be considered advantage HUDs and should not be tolerated. But that is the absolute literal definition. What should really qualify as an advantage is if you gain an absolutely effective advantage over other people. The reason why a HUD that shows building health and mine limits shouldn't be considered an advantage is because everyone already has access to this information quickly and easily. If you want to check the health of buildings, press J or K. If you want to check C4 limits, press the key binding for the C4 command or type !c4. It's not information that you have at your fingertips that other players don't. Thus it isn't an advantage. I mean, if you want to split hairs and say "Oh but it might take a half a second longer doing it the normal way!" Then that's from your own experience, but other people might have different reaction times or reflexes and thus might find the original way to be faster.... but even still, it's simply ridiculous to consider something a cheat because of something that happens in a split second. Not to mention different people might prefer the older way of doing something even if they have the "advantage" HUD in question. Edit: If you consider a HUD that gives health and mine limits a cheat, then you also have to consider those Logitech keyboards a cheat as well. Edit2: Also, that argument about "blind spots" is also not something that can be taken into consideration here. Why? Because people can easily change the size of their HUD by changing their resolution. Therefore if you think that is considered a cheat, then someone running on 1680x1050 must be cheating because someone running on 800x600 is not able to see behind their radar. Edit3: However, then again, you might not want to take my opinion into consideration here. Because I actually don't care if there are cheaters in a server playing against me. The way I see it, if someone is cheating me, I don't care just as long as it isn't painfully obvious. That means if someone has some sort of advantage that lets them do something a second earlier than me or makes me bight green or something, I don't care. In fact, bring it on as it is those kinds of things that I like to fight against as it just hones my own skills at playing the game.
So let me make sure I've got this straight- mods which "just" alter the game to make actions quicker and easier shouldn't be considered cheats? That half-second isn't splitting hairs- it is a moment of vulnerability which is eliminated if you download an augmented HUD. Half a second can see a lull in the action punctuated by a surprise rocket to the face... a rocket which you could see coming and evadewith the mod, but couldn't without it. At what point, do you think, does a mod to make things more convenient begin to give one player an edge over another? How much of an edge does it have to give that player before it is considered unfair? Quote: but other people might have different reaction times or reflexes and thus might find the original way to be faster... Funny how you'd have to have reaction times in the negative numbers to achieve that.
NukeIt15: So let me make sure I've got this straight- mods which "just" alter the game to make actions quicker and easier shouldn't be considered cheats? No, that isn't what I said. A HUD that makes an irrelevant action a fraction of a second, if anything faster than someone else shouldn't be considered a cheat. NukeIt15: That half-second isn't splitting hairs- it is a moment of vulnerability which is eliminated if you download an augmented HUD. No, it's splitting hairs. There is no vulnerability gained at all! What's the difference in being able to simultaneously play and check a mine limit in 1 second than simultaneously play and check a mine limit in .5 seconds? There IS NO difference. You may have knowledge .5 seconds earlier than anyone else, but your character in the game can only move at one speed. Scenario time: In a 3v3 game. You mine in only 1 spot. You are at the far side of the base when you decide to check the mine limit. 1. While running around, you bring up the C4 menu, notice the C4 is low, and run to investigate 2. While running around, you glance at the counter, notice it is low, and run to investigate. In both scenarios, you will arrive at the scene at the same time due to the reason you are running at the same speed. Thus, any information you manage to get .5 seconds earlier than anyone else, if any, means nothing because you are going to take the same amount of time to get to the location to investigate. I'll put it another way. You are in a car that has about a half-mile of gas left in it. The nearest station is 2 miles. What would be the difference in the result of you finding out you had low fuel by glancing down at the gauge or by some sort of automated voice telling you low fuel? There would be no difference in the end result because you aren't going to make it to the station regardless. To put it simply. I downloaded this HUD and absolutely nothing has changed in my play style or in the results of a match I play in. I read my screen with peripheral vision and quick split second glances. The way I check up on my base's structures is by rapidly pressing the K (or is it J?) key. Doing that lets me take the quick flashes of the menu to see what building is under attack and it also allows me to keep moving while I check it. The way I used to check C4 was by pressing the "/" key on my keyboard (my !C4 key binding), without looking mind you, and then glancing at what the count is at the top of the screen. What is the difference or advantage I gain in me looking at the bottom of the screen than on the top of the screen? And not only that, but I still use the !C4 command to do things such as double check the mine count on the HUD and check remotes & times. But lets just forget this whole discussion about the time it takes you to have this 'advantage' and lets focus on exactly what this 'advantage' is. What is it exactly? What advantage is clearly given to someone using a HUD that shows a mine count over someone who doesn't? What am I going to do with a mine count to make it unfair against my opponents? In a game with 20 people on each team? 10? 5? There is no game-altering advantage given at all, not in the least. NukeIt15: At what point, do you think, does a mod to make things more convenient begin to give one player an edge over another? How much of an edge does it have to give that player before it is considered unfair? Enough of an edge to send a shiver of imbalance through the game. Something that gives you the upper hand. Something that you have access to that everyone else doesn't. That's what I would consider to be unfair. For example, if you had infinite ammo. Or some sort of way of detecting where enemy troops near you are. Or had faster bullet projectiles than other people. Or larger models making it easier to hit others. Or some sort of sound that alerted you when an enemy entered a structure or when an enemy places C4. Or brightly colored C4. Ect, ect, ect. Those are advantages. Having the ability to check something irrelevant to your battle plot a quarter of a second, if any, faster than another person is not what I would consider an unfair advantage. By definition it is an advantage, but it isn't what would be an unfair advantage.
The !c4 command isn't continuous. It shows the mine limit at a certain moment and you cannot press it again to get an update before the message dissapears. For "k" or "j": if you want to have a continuous view of it, you need to hold it all the time, hence you cannot play. It's not the fact you can see the mine limit and the building health in the hud that is unfair, it's the fact you can see it at any time and immediately notice changes the moment they happen. Let me put it the other way: if I told you I removed your entire radar from the hud to the screen you get when pressing 'j', wouldn't you consider it a disadvantage? If so, then I think I proved my point.
R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 06 January 2009 18:44 Edit: If you consider a HUD that gives health and mine limits a cheat, then you also have to consider those Logitech keyboards a cheat as well. To my knowledge the keyboard will only recieve information IF the game gives it to the keyboard. At my knowledge it doenst even work in renegade. Yes the hud healthbar harvbar minelimit bar are nice features. A= You cannot force it on the entheire renegade community. Thus not everyone uses it. B= Do you get an advantage? In my eyes yes you have an advantage. Someone that is sniping in the field can now see the minecounter decreasing rappidly. He can message. Hmmm there is no one in the field someone is sneaking in! (There are plenty of blindspots in a base, take complex the ref door near the tibfield). Normally you wouldnt notice it. Because who is doing !c4 when he is in the middle of the field sniping? Same goes for the buildings the EVA auto announce is every 30 secondes. Plus who would use 'J','K' every second? Seeing the building health constantly means you can no longer fool the enemys EVA. I have to admit that the advantage from these hud is bigger in small games. (say 3 vs 3 or 5 vs 5)
It's not a cheat, maybe a advantage since for now only a few players can use this, but if it was added in a patch than everyone has it. But hey, am using dual screens to play, so I have a big advantage over players who are only using one or who are using a smaller resolution than me.
IronWarrior wrote on Wed, 07 January 2009 16:21 It's not a cheat, maybe a advantage since for now only a few players can use this, but if it was added in a patch than everyone has it. If everyone had bighead, it wouldn't be a cheat anymore either...
What about touch screen monitors? Is that a cheat? If I can simply use a stylus to pinpoint my reticle at someones head, on my 100" LCD screen is that cheating?
AND ITS NOT RIDICULOUS TO COMPARE BIGHEAD WITH SOMETHING THAT DOESNT HAVE YOU PRESS "K" IN QUICK SUCCESSION ( SO YOU LOSE ALMOST NO SPEED ).
Goztow wrote on Wed, 07 January 2009 06:00 For "k" or "j": if you want to have a continuous view of it, you need to hold it all the time, hence you cannot play. That's not how it works though. You cannot hold down the button because it doesn't refresh the screen. You need to keep pressing the button to get an updated view of what is being damaged. Quote: It's not the fact you can see the mine limit and the building health in the hud that is unfair, it's the fact you can see it at any time and immediately notice changes the moment they happen I disagree with this too. It isn't a noticeable element to the HUD. You wont notice any change in the mine drop if you are doing what you normally do. The only time you will notice its changes is if you devote the time to constantly look at it, which will cause more harm rather than help. I have a test. If you think it is so much of a cheat, then download it and just TRY to use it as a cheat. Because you can try to 'exploit' it all you want, but you are going to fail horribly. If you try to use this HUD as a cheat, then you will only hurt your own game. That's the dividing line and why it shouldn't be considered unfair.
Quote: I disagree with this too. It isn't a noticeable element to the HUD. You wont notice any change in the mine drop if you are doing what you normally do. The only time you will notice its changes is if you devote the time to constantly look at it, which will cause more harm rather than help. So you mean you can't see two things at the same time on the same screen?
Quote: You need to keep pressing the button to get an updated view of what is being damaged. I am still confused as to why you feel this is somehow not an inconvenience. In order to do that, you still have to interrupt gameplay and remove a finger from another control. This is equal to being able to shift your eyes a few degrees? If you really want splitting hairs, let's dig up statistics on the difference in reaction time between an eyeball and a finger. Any bets on which is gonna be faster? If it were patched in somehow, or if servers provided some notification of whether or not it was allowed, that would make it fair. That would make it the same thing as the turret camera radio button; anyone not using it would be disadvantaged because they chose to be. Oh, and nice job bringing up hardware. You're comparing something that cannot be tracked and regulated to something that can be. Given that identical systems and hardware setups are the exception rather than the rule in PC gaming, you're invoking an example which cannot possibly be quantified. Yes, better hardware gives its user an advantage. Yes, a player running on a $4000 rig and a $100-per-month connection is going to have an easier time than someone using a $200 clunker and free dial-up... but there's nothing that can be done about it, unless you have a magic utility that restricts in-game performance to that of the slowest setup on the field. You can ban modified software, however. The idea is to minimize the advantages and disadvantages so that the contest is decided by player skill and not by outside factors. Any one-sided advantages which can realistically be eliminated should be eliminated.
NukeIt15 wrote on Wed, 07 January 2009 14:47 Oh, and nice job bringing up hardware. You're comparing something that cannot be tracked and regulated to something that can be. Given that identical systems and hardware setups are the exception rather than the rule in PC gaming, you're invoking an example which cannot possibly be quantified. Yes, better hardware gives its user an advantage. Yes, a player running on a $4000 rig and a $100-per-month connection is going to have an easier time than someone using a $200 clunker and free dial-up... but there's nothing that can be done about it, unless you have a magic utility that restricts in-game performance to that of the slowest setup on the field. I was throwing it in the discussion, not trying to compare the two. I t looked like the thread had died, so I was injecting a new thought... I was not trying to compare the two at all. Also, yes you can do something about it. There is nothing "magic" about it at all.
Goztow wrote on Wed, 07 January 2009 11:57 IronWarrior wrote on Wed, 07 January 2009 16:21 It's not a cheat, maybe a advantage since for now only a few players can use this, but if it was added in a patch than everyone has it. If everyone had bighead, it wouldn't be a cheat anymore either... Thing is Gozy, bighead is not a built-in function you can use by pressing "K"... but building health meter is. (I know there is aiming aid). As far as these HUD's are concerned, I think mine counters and harvester health is pushing it...they are not necessary. As far as building health meters, I am much more lenient towards it in public servers. If you are in a tank and your are tapping "K" repetedly, your tank will still be moving while you can also check building health. Of courese, the screen would be flickering but you can be doing both... I think it should depend on the servers...they can enable/disable these HUDs. This tool is great for newbies and n00bs as now there won't be any excuse for them to not look after a building.
I propose you can have it on your screen if you have your screen flickering all the time at the same time. Deal?
Goztow wrote on Wed, 07 January 2009 15:00 I propose you can have it on your screen if you have your screen flickering all the time at the same time. Deal? Much easier if everyone gets it. I still think it's should be server sided. Player joines server and if it's enabled, then he/she gets it. If not, then no HUD. This is like the pointsfix issue...one side saying the other side is wrong and while they surely did make sense, for some, it is a matter of preference whatever effect it may have on the game. Same thing here...no harm is being done if the power is given to server owners. So why it is so hard?
NukeIt15 wrote on Wed, 07 January 2009 14:47 I am still confused as to why you feel this is somehow not an inconvenience. It would be an inconvenience if it didn't benefit you in other ways. When you pull up the menu to check on the health of your buildings, your character stops in the game. That means you can't move again until you let go of the button. However, the screen you are viewing doesn't refresh on its own, therefore by you holding down the key to view the structures, you aren't doing anything to help you gain any knowledge. You have to repeatedly press it to constantly see it refresh. And since you are flickering the menu on and off, you are therefore still able to move your character. That's why it isn't an inconvenience. Now, moving on, you wouldn't be a smart person to look away from your target, even for a split second, in the heat of battle. Even if it is to scan a statistic on your HUD. It can get you killed. Don't believe me? Then how do you explain the people in that HUD's thread basically pleading for the mini-health updater in the center of the screen be added to the HUD? Because originally, that pop-up display showing your health in the center of the screen wasn't apart of the HUD. Many people complained that they didn't realize how much they relied on that little popup and it lead to a lot of people getting killed because they didn't realize what their health was. So if people can't be bothered to notice something as important as the large bar of health reaching 0 and blinking read at the bottom of the screen, then how do you expect them to be able to read a tiny counter or display giving something that isn't very important to your survival? Compare the size and position of the health bar to the size and position of the mine counter (or building health bars). How do you expect people, that aren't able to see a large flashing health bar, to be able to see something 3x smaller and much more out of the way when they are pre-occupied fighting other people or something simple, like walking to a location. The answer to that is: they can't. It simply isn't possible, nor is it even desirable. So, from that, we can determine that people wont be using these counters in their HUD when they are preoccupied with something else in the game. Therefore we can say, people will only use these displays/counters when they are in cover or in a safe place. However, I've been able to successfully check my base structures by flickering the status screen while in heated battle. Something I can't do by simply glaring at the corner of my HUD. So if this 'unfair advantage' can only be effectively used in cover or safe locations, then what exactly is it gaining an unfair advantage over? Like I said before, if you are so sure that it is a cheat or an unfair advantage, then download it yourself and try to use it as an advantage. You will find that it is quite impossibly hard to do.
R315r4z0r wrote on Wed, 07 January 2009 19:36 NukeIt15 wrote on Wed, 07 January 2009 14:47 I am still confused as to why you feel this is somehow not an inconvenience. It would be an inconvenience if it didn't benefit you in other ways. When you pull up the menu to check on the health of your buildings, your character stops in the game. That means you can't move again until you let go of the button. However, the screen you are viewing doesn't refresh on its own, therefore by you holding down the key to view the structures, you aren't doing anything to help you gain any knowledge. You have to repeatedly press it to constantly see it refresh. And since you are flickering the menu on and off, you are therefore still able to move your character. That's why it isn't an inconvenience. Now, moving on, you wouldn't be a smart person to look away from your target, even for a split second, in the heat of battle. Even if it is to scan a statistic on your HUD. It can get you killed. Don't believe me? Then how do you explain the people in that HUD's thread basically pleading for the mini-health updater in the center of the screen be added to the HUD? Because originally, that pop-up display showing your health in the center of the screen wasn't apart of the HUD. Many people complained that they didn't realize how much they relied on that little popup and it lead to a lot of people getting killed because they didn't realize what their health was. So if people can't be bothered to notice something as important as the large bar of health reaching 0 and blinking read at the bottom of the screen, then how do you expect them to be able to read a tiny counter or display giving something that isn't very important to your survival? Compare the size and position of the health bar to the size and position of the mine counter (or building health bars). How do you expect people, that aren't able to see a large flashing health bar, to be able to see something 3x smaller and much more out of the way when they are pre-occupied fighting other people or something simple, like walking to a location. The answer to that is: they can't. It simply isn't possible, nor is it even desirable. So, from that, we can determine that people wont be using these counters in their HUD when they are preoccupied with something else in the game. Therefore we can say, people will only use these displays/counters when they are in cover or in a safe place. However, I've been able to successfully check my base structures by flickering the status screen while in heated battle. Something I can't do by simply glaring at the corner of my HUD. So if this 'unfair advantage' can only be effectively used in cover or safe locations, then what exactly is it gaining an unfair advantage over? Like I said before, if you are so sure that it is a cheat or an unfair advantage, then download it yourself and try to use it as an advantage. You will find that it is quite impossibly hard to do. That's the thing though. Knowing the building health and mine count is useless when you're busy fighting. But when you're idling around the base, defending, simply looking at the hud would be only a little more convenient then having to press k.
Yes, and since that is the case, who cares?! You gaining knowledge and thinking in real life is one thing, but the amount of time it takes you to make your character act is a totally different thing. We are just talking about a fraction of a second faster of you gaining knowledge, and that translates to absolutely no difference in the time it takes your character to react the way you want it to. I mean, if you are idling, it makes no difference if you gain something a fraction of a second faster or a whole 3 seconds faster because you are going to react the same way and your character wont somehow magically get stronger, faster, or better in any way. You just need to realize that, although it is technically defined as an advantage, you aren't gaining an edge over anyone else. Even if you are dead set at wanting to play unfairly with this HUD, you simply cannot do so.
You choose to ignore these? Quote: Let me put it the other way: if I told you I removed your entire radar from the hud to the screen you get when pressing 'j', wouldn't you consider it a disadvantage? If so, then I think I proved my point. Quote: I propose you can have it on your screen if you have your screen flickering all the time at the same time. Deal?
What I don't understand is, that EVERYBODY in here agrees that it is an advantage (If it wasn't why putting it in the hud at all). Now we simply say that everything you add to the game to give you an advantage is a cheat. Surly not comparable with a hack but still on the same lvl as advantage skins. "If it will be in a patch and everybody has it, than it ain't an advantage anymore....". Wasn't the intention NOT to change gameplay? As we all know that it IS an advantage, it DOES change gameplay. The only discussable thing is whether the advantage is big enough to make a big deal out of it (for me its is a matter of principles but arguing about principles in here is useless anyway). well, last monday I had a game that convinced me taht it can be a major advantage in some situations. We (NOD) played city2 and had a mrls hitting our ref. I had a tank and just past by to repair Ref. We knew that more mrls were incoming while someone to replace me in Ref was on the way. I checked building health (was about 90%) and took my tank to go back to my position other side of the map. 10 secs later we lost ref. With building health in my hud I'd have seen that the second I got in my tank to drive away, the mrls were in place and that Ref needs additional repairs. You may now say that this was my very own fault as I left the building while knowing about the mrls. But the point is that with this hud I probably would have saved it ALLTHOUGH I made a mistake that should have given GDI to take down Ref and win the game.
Go cry Wiener, everyone have his own Opinion (or how its called lol) And TT wont add that Feature, and you cant stop Peoples from making Advatages or Cheats
mǻdrãçķz wrote on Thu, 08 January 2009 12:34 Go cry Wiener, everyone have his own Opinion (or how its called lol) And TT wont add that Feature, and you cant stop Peoples from making Advatages or Cheats You can't stop them making it but you can stop it being (ab)used.
Well there are cheats that would be practically impossible to detect. A good example would be the "magic mouse" as I like to call it, where a fraps like program would read the screen and send a "click" to the computer as if it were a real mouse.
Goztow wrote on Wed, 07 January 2009 15:00 I propose you can have it on your screen if you have your screen flickering all the time at the same time. Deal? That can be arranged. 30hz flicker?
Saberhawk wrote on Thu, 08 January 2009 12:42 Goztow wrote on Wed, 07 January 2009 15:00 I propose you can have it on your screen if you have your screen flickering all the time at the same time. Deal? That can be arranged. 30hz flicker? No, that's too fast. Something like 10Hz with 50% duty cycle.
YEAH LETS MAKE THE EYES HURT BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE DEEM THE FEATURE TOO USEFUL OTHERWISE. LETS HAVE A 2 PAGE DISCUSSION OF UNIMPORTANT SHIT LIKE THIS. LET'S CAPSLOCK. K?
I'm still laughing myself silly at R315r4z0r's explanation of why repeatedly pressing buttons isn't an inconvenience. You need a finger to press it with, unless you use your toes or your dick, and that finger has to come from somewhere. Let's see... The right hand is on the mouse, and the left hand is covering W, A, D, Shift/Ctrl, and the Spacebar. Which finger would the guru suggest we relocate so as to not uncover one of the controls vital for movement, shooting, etc? Hot tip: you can keep evading if your eyes are diverted. Hell, if your peripheral vision is good enough you can even keep fighting. What you can't do is any of the above when your movement keys aren't being pressed or your mouse isn't moving. The best solution is to bind the status screens to keys located closer to the movement controls, like F, R, C, etc, but even then your movement is restricted in one direction while you use your magic index finger to press that other button. That interruption is not necessary if the information you press those extra keys to acquire is already on your HUD, hence the advantage. I am utterly baffled by the argument that a HUD display is more convenient, yet the default controls are somehow not less convenient. I can't be the only one who sees a total logic disconnect here.
NukeIt15 wrote on Thu, 08 January 2009 12:43 I'm still laughing myself silly at R315r4z0r's explanation of why repeatedly pressing buttons isn't an inconvenience. You need a finger to press it with, unless you use your toes or your dick, and that finger has to come from somewhere. Let's see... The right hand is on the mouse, and the left hand is covering W, A, D, Shift/Ctrl, and the Spacebar. Which finger would the guru suggest we relocate so as to not uncover one of the controls vital for movement, shooting, etc? I'd suggest the right hand's thumb, to press the mouse's thumb buttons (MOUSE4/5, or letter keys if reassigned via the mouse's software)
I demand we ban, or limit all of those people that bought those nerdy G15's because people like me just use the keyboards that are built into our computers, and we do not have access to all macro shiznat. I also think we should limit people with 1000000000 DPI mice to only having 100 DPI because that shit gives like a 0.00000000002% of extra super advantage. Oh, and you assholes with 7.1 sound... go screw yourselves, you've got an advatange over us with stereo sound. In fact, anyone with a computer from like, 2005-on should not be allowed to play either because their shits faster than mine.
nikki6ixx wrote on Thu, 08 January 2009 13:56 I demand we ban, or limit all of those people that bought those nerdy G15's because people like me just use the keyboards that are built into our computers, and we do not have access to all macro shiznat. I also think we should limit people with 1000000000 DPI mice to only having 100 DPI because that shit gives like a 0.00000000002% of extra super advantage. Oh, and you assholes with 7.1 sound... go screw yourselves, you've got an advatange over us with stereo sound. In fact, anyone with a computer from like, 2005-on should not be allowed to play either because their shits faster than mine. Overkill much? I've got a G5, a G15, and 7.1 surround sound, with a computer that's from late 2008. Do you really want me not to play that badly?
Saberhawk wrote on Thu, 08 January 2009 14:14 nikki6ixx wrote on Thu, 08 January 2009 13:56 I demand we ban, or limit all of those people that bought those nerdy G15's because people like me just use the keyboards that are built into our computers, and we do not have access to all macro shiznat. I also think we should limit people with 1000000000 DPI mice to only having 100 DPI because that shit gives like a 0.00000000002% of extra super advantage. Oh, and you assholes with 7.1 sound... go screw yourselves, you've got an advatange over us with stereo sound. In fact, anyone with a computer from like, 2005-on should not be allowed to play either because their shits faster than mine. Overkill much? I've got a G5, a G15, and 7.1 surround sound, with a computer that's from late 2008. Do you really want me not to play that badly? nikki has the best exhagerated sarcasm EVARRR!!
Goztow wrote on Thu, 08 January 2009 02:45 You choose to ignore these? Quote: Let me put it the other way: if I told you I removed your entire radar from the hud to the screen you get when pressing 'j', wouldn't you consider it a disadvantage? If so, then I think I proved my point. Quote: I propose you can have it on your screen if you have your screen flickering all the time at the same time. Deal? I didn't choose to ignore, I just didn't see you wrote that.. (short attention spam + short term memory problems doesn't really mix well when reading blocks of text) However, I see others have chose to ignore: R315r4z0r wrote on Wed, 07 January 2009 14:05 I have a test. If you think it is so much of a cheat, then download it and just TRY to use it as a cheat. Because you can try to 'exploit' it all you want, but you are going to fail horribly. If you try to use this HUD as a cheat, then you will only hurt your own game. That's the dividing line and why it shouldn't be considered unfair.[/color] In all honesty, and off the record (like there is a record....) I've found this HUD to be more of a disadvantage more than an advantage. The only reason why I keep it is because I like its design and the ammo counter bar. I've noticed it has been dramatically harder notice how fast my health gets depleted. In fact, I've been in battles where I think I've had a tank in the green health area when I'm really in the low yellows. It isn't really a problem with me though because I'm one to enjoy allowing the enemy to have an advantage over me, as it makes it much more fun to play. But my offer is still there, download it and try to consciously use it as a cheat. You will find that you simply can't.
nikki6ixx wrote on Thu, 08 January 2009 13:56 I demand we ban, or limit all of those people that bought those nerdy G15's because people like me just use the keyboards that are built into our computers, and we do not have access to all macro shiznat. I also think we should limit people with 1000000000 DPI mice to only having 100 DPI because that shit gives like a 0.00000000002% of extra super advantage. Oh, and you assholes with 7.1 sound... go screw yourselves, you've got an advatange over us with stereo sound. In fact, anyone with a computer from like, 2005-on should not be allowed to play either because their shits faster than mine. I agree! But if this goes ahead, then I be fucked, since my new PC could power NASA.
IronWarrior wrote on Sat, 10 January 2009 13:42 nikki6ixx wrote on Thu, 08 January 2009 13:56 I demand we ban, or limit all of those people that bought those nerdy G15's because people like me just use the keyboards that are built into our computers, and we do not have access to all macro shiznat. I also think we should limit people with 1000000000 DPI mice to only having 100 DPI because that shit gives like a 0.00000000002% of extra super advantage. Oh, and you assholes with 7.1 sound... go screw yourselves, you've got an advatange over us with stereo sound. In fact, anyone with a computer from like, 2005-on should not be allowed to play either because their shits faster than mine. I agree! I concur!
Okay will you guys bicker over this pointlessness, I'm going to join a sever with two computers, and I'll leave one up just so I can watch the building health meters, the other I'll play on. That way I'll do neither of your methods and still have an advantage of just having to move my eyes
Jerad Gray wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 02:42 Okay will you guys bicker over this pointlessness, I'm going to join a sever with two computers, and I'll leave one up just so I can watch the building health meters, the other I'll play on. That way I'll do neither of your methods and still have an advantage of just having to move my eyes STOP USING YOUR EYES YOU FUCKING CHEATER WITH BIGEYE HEX
Or you could save time and effort by simply pressing K...
I just realized something that I think I should point out: I'm not using the HUD that gives you the status of the building's health. I support it's use, but I'm not personally using it. I say this to hopefully sway your opinions about why you think I approve of it.
By the way, I've upgraded(?) to an Acer netbook, so now all of you with monitors over 9 inches, and resolutions over 1024x600 have a mega-ultra advantage over me. In fact, people with discrete graphics cards should be required to take them out, and only play with Intel Integrated. Plus, my keyboard is tiny so my hand cramps, meaning people with those fancy FULL SIZE keyboards are kinda-sorta cheating, and that upsets me. The mouse that comes with it is also sucky. It's tinier than a chipmunks nutsack; the rest of you totally have an advantage over me with your standard mice. That simply cannot be, so Ren players should only be limited to those CrApple mice with one button. Also, the speaker is MONO, so I can't even tell what side shit's firing from. I'd use headphones, but my left ear is becoming deaf, so people with even just stereo sound have two advantages over me. Therefore, I demand Renegade no longer support sound whatsoever.
nikki6ixx wrote on Wed, 21 January 2009 12:40 By the way, I've upgraded(?) to an Acer netbook, so now all of you with monitors over 9 inches, and resolutions over 1024x600 have a mega-ultra advantage over me. In fact, people with discrete graphics cards should be required to take them out, and only play with Intel Integrated. Plus, my keyboard is tiny so my hand cramps, meaning people with those fancy FULL SIZE keyboards are kinda-sorta cheating, and that upsets me. The mouse that comes with it is also sucky. It's tinier than a chipmunks nutsack; the rest of you totally have an advantage over me with your standard mice. That simply cannot be, so Ren players should only be limited to those CrApple mice with one button. Also, the speaker is MONO, so I can't even tell what side shit's firing from. I'd use headphones, but my left ear is becoming deaf, so people with even just stereo sound have two advantages over me. Therefore, I demand Renegade no longer support sound whatsoever. Renegade.. the pong version.
What about this?
RoShamBo wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 07:01 What about this? HAX...you should immediately stop using this keyboard as this will help you defend base more easily.
TANKY wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 15:03 RoShamBo wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 07:01 What about this? ... HAX...you should immediately stop using this keyboard as this will help you defend base more easily. So ban me?
RoShamBo wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 07:01 What about this? lol thats ballin
I lost my mouse, so now i'm relegated to 'touchpad' . So yeah, essentially, anyone with a computer has an advantage over me. I hate you all.
http://www.n00bstories.com/forums/espion/NOTCHEATING.jpg This does not give me an advantage imo because i could simply just run around and see where all those people are myself, it doesn't seem like a big deal to me to just put them on my HUD for convenience... is that so wrong?
RoShamBo wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 14:01 What about this? I don't see a difference with these buildingbars? Just a different screen to put it on....
EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sun, 25 January 2009 11:45 RoShamBo wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 14:01 What about this? {...} I don't see a difference with these buildingbars? Just a different screen to put it on.... But how do you know the person is using that...? It doesn't show up in a screen shot when you request it of him. >.>
Zack wrote on Sun, 25 January 2009 19:47 EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sun, 25 January 2009 11:45 RoShamBo wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 14:01 What about this? {...} I don't see a difference with these buildingbars? Just a different screen to put it on.... But how do you know the person is using that...? It doesn't show up in a screen shot when you request it of him. >.> True. But, I am sure that I could use aimbot in a game against you and damage hacks against you and you wouldn't be able to prove it either. Only just enough for you to think that I am really good. Your point?
Renx wrote on Sun, 25 January 2009 12:35 http://www.n00bstories.com/forums/espion/NOTCHEATING.jpg This does not give me an advantage imo because i could simply just run around and see where all those people are myself, it doesn't seem like a big deal to me to just put them on my HUD for convenience... is that so wrong? ?????????????????????????????
LoL you all must be very bored. I think as creator is my opinion not unknown. But some question: Are unoffical patches to increase ping/fps a cheat or just advanced? For example i saw a screen from gozy with some extra information about his client a while ago. (I use RR to increase my ping and fps will i get a ban?) Or a good pc and a good internet connection, cheat or advanced? How about a smoke before a cw, cheat or advanced?
Quote: For example i saw a screen from gozy with some extra information about his client a while ago. I don't think diagnostic information on lag (net update rate) helps me a lot... http://www.thekoss2.org/community/download/file.php?id=582 Anyway, i decided it may be best to close this topic, so we can continue this discussion (in case of new arguments) in the other topic about this: here.