Command and Conquer: Renegade Official Forums - RDF feed
type: channel
description: C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
items: Fix outside PTs?
items: Re: Fix outside PTs?

Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Hello Everybody, There has been some controversy about the ability to use the purchase terminals outside of the buildings. There have been arguments to fix this bug, and also arguments to leave it alone. At this point, we're undecided if we should fix this issue, and we've decided to create a poll instead, to let the users decide. Note that this fix can only apply to all stock maps, as all the maps have to be edited. Fan maps are not going to be fixed. We'll also need a mapper to make this happen, so we're open for recruiting in this department. Note that there will be either a "unfixpt" or a "fixpt" seperate patch available to keep everyone happy.. it's just the question which fix should be default.. Please keep the flaming in the other thread.. -mac Edit by Goz: In short what has been said in defense of the PT fix: * they weren't meant to be; * sbh nuke = 1.400 credits, it should have at least a chance of success; * PT outside = advantage for GDI as Nod only has it on air (can be nuked anywhere on the runway anyway) and the oby whereas GDI has it on agt, bar, wf. On most maps it's usable for GDI, only on a few maps for Nod; * people can and will adapt their strategies to this, which will give a new flow of strategies for Renegade. Things said against it: * it will be nearly impossible to defend against some nukes (exemple: field barracks back); * everyone is used to it/uses it, so why remove it?
creator: mac
date: 2008-08-14T08:31:47-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Voted no.
creator: Caveman
date: 2008-08-14T08:34:05-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Thank you for letting the players decide. Now I will shut up. I advise people to read the arguments that have been put forward for and against the issue rather than deciding on on the basis of inconvinience alone, or the it is a bug ideology.
creator: Jamie or NuneGa
date: 2008-08-14T08:34:17-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Can you create me a quick writeup with all the arguments for fixing this, and also everything against fixing this? I will put it in the first post.
creator: mac
date: 2008-08-14T08:39:17-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: How come I just see the results but cannot vote? Maybe restart the poll when you wrote down all the arguments pro and con?
creator: Goztow
date: 2008-08-14T08:45:50-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Seems to work now.
creator: mac
date: 2008-08-14T08:50:59-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Fix
creator: TD
date: 2008-08-14T08:53:54-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: I think that the default should be on fixed. This because we're already changing a lot of stuff that alone doesn't have too much influence on the gameplay, but all combined it may. By putting this fix in the patch people will really notice that we've at least tried to get Renegade as bug free as possible. It doesn't make sense to ave PT's usable through walls, because if it was intended, then why wouldn't Westwood have made PT's just as visible as on the inside?
creator: EvilWhiteDragon
date: 2008-08-14T10:58:53-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Just fix this bug, if players really want pt's you can SERVER-SIDE modify it. That should still be possible in TT. Just place some extra pt's and a switch to mark where it is and you are done. The Bug will be gone and serverowners can descide if they want outer pt's !
creator: Reaver11
date: 2008-08-14T11:16:14-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: fix it...
creator: MrCookies
date: 2008-08-14T12:26:58-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: There's plenty of spots whereas if you remove outside PTs, you will pretty much never be able to disable a beacon in time if you encounter any beacon cover whatsoever. The barracks is especially vulnerable with it having only a single entrance, and that's on nearly any map. Any beacon on the rear end of it would be almost a guaranteed destruction. The back corner of the Refineries (near the tunnels) on Field when the base defenses are offline are also vulnerable. To be honest, I would rather see this fix twofold: have an option to remove purchase terminal access from outside. And then if purchase terminal access from outside is enabled, then have the outside terminal be displayed so that people know that it's there on that server.
creator: Kanezor
date: 2008-08-14T12:30:10-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Quote: There's plenty of spots whereas if you remove outside PTs, you will pretty much never be able to disable a beacon in time if you encounter any beacon cover whatsoever. The barracks is especially vulnerable with it having only a single entrance, and that's on nearly any map. Any beacon on the rear end of it would be almost a guaranteed destruction. The back corner of the Refineries (near the tunnels) on Field when the base defenses are offline are also vulnerable. MAYBE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE VULNERABLE TO A 1000$ BEACON THAT IS FIRING A GODDAMN NUCLEAR MISSLE? HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THAT? DO I USE CAPSLOCK? QUITE SO, YES!
creator: Herr Surth
date: 2008-08-14T12:34:05-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Barracks has more chance of being killed by a nuke and less chance of being killed by a techie (only one entrance). If you think about it, it does make sense. I voted for "fix". i used to think it was a bug we should keep but a long discussion convinced me that it should probably be fixed. It's up to the players to adapt their tactics (example: keep an player in the defense with a remoted humvee to quickly react on SBH's.
creator: Goztow
date: 2008-08-14T12:58:46-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: just make it with the option to take the fix out again if people really don't like it, you can always get ur pt's back
creator: candy
date: 2008-08-14T13:08:42-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 05:58 I think that the default should be on fixed. This because we're already changing a lot of stuff that alone doesn't have too much influence on the gameplay, but all combined it may. By putting this fix in the patch people will really notice that we've at least tried to get Renegade as bug free as possible. It doesn't make sense to ave PT's usable through walls, because if it was intended, then why wouldn't Westwood have made PT's just as visible as on the inside? In the released readme of Renegade, it specifically stats use a PT from standing infront of it (nothing about behind it), hit the E key to enter it... (also stated nothing about getting 1 cred per sec when pp is down just double costs of everything, and hotty/tech suppose to be getting double the range of a normal engi (inwhich I don't think they do). But that all doesn't seem to matter after 6 years and the 'official' readme right on the CDs) I think everything should be on/fixed by default. Isn't that the point of the patch anyway.
creator: gkl21
date: 2008-08-14T13:08:44-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: candy wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 15:08 just make it with the option to take the fix out again if people really don't like it, you can always get ur pt's back IF you would've read the first post, then you would've read that there will be a fix or an unfix (depending on the default). What we're trying to decide here is which one to make default.
creator: EvilWhiteDragon
date: 2008-08-14T13:20:19-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: The one problem I can see with removing PTs is defending top of barracks nukes in Canyon...but maybe that ramp should be removed altogether or a blocker inserted? It doesn't really make sense that you can stick a nuke there on a non-flying map
creator: =HT=T-Bird
date: 2008-08-14T14:32:46-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Perhaps the debate should be kept in the other thread, but I'll summarize my vote with a list of reasons, which was for fixing this. -It's pretty clearly a bug, and was not meant to be. -Not everyone knows about this despite how common it seems to us here. I'd bet over half to possibly 2/3 of the community does not know of this. It's not fair that some people don't know when it's an exploit. You shouldn't have to know the dark secrets, so to say, to play. -It destroys balance. This is the biggest reason it needs fixed. A SHB costs $1400. They also take time to get to said location, and are basically effectively not working towards their team effort while nuking. Well, they ARE overall, but they stay hidden and do not actively fight or defend, meaning the opposing team has one less person against them at said time. On top of that, nukes aren't unstoppable, and while the Barracks specifically is an easier target, it's harder to get into via infantry. It's easier to defend against infantry so it's weaker to nukes. That's the tradeoff that building has for having no rear doors. This bug gives it the advantage of having no rear doors but takes away it's disadvantage. -With outside PT access, SBHs are more useless. Nod has to rely on Stealth as a brute fight alone (if both sides are equal) won't work, and this hurts Nod a bit. The fact that alot of people call using the SBH a "n00bs tactic" clearly shows how useless it is now. Reasons I can see for it staying, but don't think any are good enough. -They're already in place and everyone is used to them. True, but they destroy balance, and this is flawed thinking since they were never meant to come to be in place to begin with. Sure, it sucks having to change, but to those who want to whine, be willing to adapt your strategy and play rather than wanting to rely on an exploit that changes the balance and intended play. -Some nukes are hard to stop. This is true, but so are other strategies in given scenarios, and I think the …
creator: Chuck Norris
date: 2008-08-14T15:49:18-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: after thinking about the cons n pros i think it should be fixed after all since i think gdi>nod overall and gdi can do this on nearly all buildings and nod only at strip... would balance things a tiny bit more i'm sure... fix it
creator: Hitman
date: 2008-08-14T15:51:19-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: This is kinda unfair...there is many more kids that don't know jack shit about this game but they get to vote as many times as the more experienced players that actually understand tactics and strategies....
creator: trooprm02
date: 2008-08-14T16:48:54-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: agreed, its not fair that troopm02 gets a vote.
creator: Herr Surth
date: 2008-08-14T16:51:53-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: What really is unfair, is that all players who are just playing the game and not visiting these forums don't get to vote. I voted yes. Basically because of the arguments Chuck Norris listed. The arguments stated in the other thread convinced me it would be good to fix it.
creator: StealthEye
date: 2008-08-14T17:22:23-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: You guys are creating a patch a patch to fix gltiches the pt glitch is one of the BIGGEST glitches in renegade, if you guys don't fix that theres no point in patching up the game it wont be IMPOSSIBLE to disarm nukes, you'll just have to have 2 players fall back to defend it instead of just 1 IMO if it comes down to barracks VRS hand, in any size game its not hard AT ALL to mine the front of the barracks, and patrol with a havoc so that no SBH's get their nukes down. GDI has a gunner as infrantry, MAJOR point whore.. not has nothing like this, usually when it comes down to infrantry only GDI's got somebody using a gunner all game while all nod can do is constantly SBH rush tbh, if the havocs at the back of the barracks, 2 sbh's start attacking him.. if he has to refill he SHOULD have lost that game, thats when its time to step up, be nerdy, and kill them
creator: karmai
date: 2008-08-14T18:04:27-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Voted to fix it.
creator: nikki6ixx
date: 2008-08-14T18:10:29-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: trooprm02 wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 12:48 This is kinda unfair...there is many more kids that don't know jack shit about this game but they get to vote as many times as the more experienced players that actually understand tactics and strategies.... That's kind of odd considering if you read this topic up until now, what is it like 2/3 or maybe even 3/4 of those who have posted are voting to fix it, but the poll results (currently) have it split 50/50. What does this mean? The people voting to fix it are giving reasons, good ones I may add, whereas the ones voting to leave it are the ones who appear to not know anything. There's also the fact someone else brought up that probably something like 4/5 of the Renegade community don't come to these forums (no matter what the number, it's an overwhelming majority), and of the 1/5 that does, even less will see and vote in this poll.
creator: Chuck Norris
date: 2008-08-14T18:20:56-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: i just read the whole thing what nune posted and i have no words 4 that! Vote --> Fix
creator: Rocky
date: 2008-08-14T18:23:21-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: it's a tie.
creator: Lone0001
date: 2008-08-14T18:26:38-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: http://24.239.220.58/smak/ubb/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=33;t=010895 nobody from clanwars.cc supports leaving this glitch except nunega, whos been there like 2 months This is stupid, why are you letting a community of players that honestly don't know how to play renegade all that well decide this? EVERYONE at clanwars.cc knows about this glitch, it is used in every clanwar, ALL the time. EVERYONE there wants it gone, the only reason people here like it is that they play public servers.. and have a huge advantage over the other noobs in public serverss because they dont even know all the outside PT spots. Shouldn't be decided by the public, majority doesn't know what they're talking about
creator: karmai
date: 2008-08-14T18:40:48-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: That's just your way of saying that you'd like only the people who agree with you to vote.
creator: Craziac
date: 2008-08-14T19:25:50-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: {SB}Lone0001 wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 13:26 it's a tie. Ha, I broke the tie.
creator: sadukar09
date: 2008-08-14T20:18:06-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: No? there shouldnt even be a vote, this is a patch to fix glitches.. the most OBVIOUS glitches in renegade are.. bluescreen, Pt on outside of buildings bug, Glass shooting (which was fixed in renguard( nobody uses it anymore), deadzones on tanks, pistol scope. if you're going to make a patch fix all the obviuos glitches not just the ones you can't use to your advantage
creator: karmai
date: 2008-08-14T20:40:46-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Actually, I just realised when playing last night, how much of an advantage being able to do it is. I think it should be fixed, because I also realised last night (whilst being Nod) that SBH + Nuke = fail, and that then lowers Nod's stealth strategy options, paving the way to a GDI armour steamroll. Fix it.
creator: CarrierII
date: 2008-08-14T20:41:32-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: I'd just like to point out that because some of us dont play in clanwars.cc doesn't mean we dont know how to play. To give the statement that you know better because you play on a certain server is ludicrous.
creator: Caveman
date: 2008-08-14T21:11:23-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: karmai wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 20:40 This is stupid, why are you letting a community of players that honestly don't know how to play renegade all that well decide this? Shouldn't be decided by the public, majority doesn't know what they're talking about I can agree with you there, to a certain degree. The reason why this poll is open to the public is because TT needs the support of the ren comunity (or atleast the mayority). That was explicitly stated by EA. (correct me if i'm wrong ) As to my vote i can say the following: imo the arguments for not having the outer pt acces removed are ridiculous. (you can prolly gues what i voted) If EA got their act straight from the beginning the bug wouldn't even have been there, or atleast not for long.
creator: Tanya A.
date: 2008-08-14T21:19:00-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: What happened to not hurting the current gameplay?
creator: KobraOps
date: 2008-08-14T22:06:48-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Yes make it the default, then people can decide after - same as pointsfix.
creator: Homey
date: 2008-08-14T22:07:25-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: wow.. this isnt hurting current gameplay ops.. how can you guys not see how unfair this shit is? if anything its going to IMPROVE gameplay, change the way alot of maps are played.. and just make this game more interesting/better all together.
creator: karmai
date: 2008-08-14T22:12:13-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: karmai wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 17:12 wow.. this isnt hurting current gameplay ops.. how can you guys not see how unfair this shit is? if anything its going to IMPROVE gameplay, change the way alot of maps are played.. and just make this game more interesting/better all together. It hurts gameplay ops, yes. It's something we've been doing for ages. It would be like changing how buildings are repaired or tanks are driven, it's become part of the fabric of the game. It's not unfair, both teams can do it and both really have an equal advantage/disadvantage for using it. The unfair thing to do is fix it, because it removes the equality of those advantages. ... I'm not even going to argue your last point. Anyway, I'm done posting here b/c we're supposed to discuss in the other thread.
creator: Craziac
date: 2008-08-14T22:18:11-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Stewie wrote on Fri, 15 August 2008 00:18 It's not unfair, both teams can do it and both really have an equal advantage/disadvantage for using it. The unfair thing to do is fix it, because it removes the equality of those advantages. And fixing it brings back the same equality as before it was being used/exploited. It's a bug, bugs get fixed. It's unwise to rely on the existence bugs, because then you get situations like this. Part of what makes ren so entertaining are the strategic posibilities. (and the c&c aspect ofcours, but that's aside here) If I didn't know about this bug, and join a game with someone on the opposing teeam who does know this bug and how to exploit it he get's a certain advantage over me that wasn't intended by the game creators. I strongly believe that fixing this bug will cause a great deal of people to revise thier stategy for the better, and that will make the game more interresting/competing, whereas some games nowadays are over too quickly due to balance issues to the gameplay (partly because of this bug) Think about this, try to grasp the concept of a bug and try to see my point here. *put's away the soapbox
creator: Tanya A.
date: 2008-08-14T23:00:19-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Someone please justify how it is fair that a new player join, does not know about these exploits, but yet, everyone else is using them? That seems at most unfair. This leading to it being unfair while it is unfixed. It being fixed is fair all the way across the board, all new players, all the experienced are equal now for using this method. Maybe the new people see another healing in the middle of nowhere (side of building) and say this is bs, then drop the game cause 'everyone is cheating'.
creator: gkl21
date: 2008-08-15T00:18:35-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Voted to fix, for reasons stated by Chuck Norris.
creator: cmatt42
date: 2008-08-15T04:06:06-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Tanya A. wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 18:00 If I didn't know about this bug, and join a game with someone on the opposing teeam who does know this bug and how to exploit it he get's a certain advantage over me that wasn't intended by the game creators. I know I said I was done posting but I have to say this: there will ALWAYS be advantages and disadvantages to both sides, ESPECIALLY when there's a beginner against an expert. To be honest, fixing the glitch gives Nod a large advantage. Meant by the creators or not, it's something we've lived with for six years and no one seems to have complained until it was brought up for a HUGE scripts release. Anyway, now I'm really done posting here. Moderators have permission to remove any future posts by me in this thread should I lose control.
creator: Craziac
date: 2008-08-15T08:30:23-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Stewie, which clan do you participate in? How many clanwars have you played in the current& last year against which enemies? Before you continue to debate this, please answer.
creator: Herr Surth
date: 2008-08-15T11:54:34-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Surth wrote on Fri, 15 August 2008 12:54 Stewie, which clan do you participate in? How many clanwars have you played in the current& last year against which enemies? Before you continue to debate this, please answer. Playing in clanwars has what to do with this debate?
creator: Caveman
date: 2008-08-15T12:01:11-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: I refused to use this bug for a long time although I knew it simply because its bug abuse. But I couldn't convince my clan m8s not to use it I started using it about 1 year ago but I could perfectly live with not using it anymore. I say go for the fix. Its a bug and we should get rid of as many bugs as possible. Further I don't see any unbalancing when this is fixed.
creator: Wiener
date: 2008-08-15T12:56:03-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: i was playing a 1v1 yesterday field, nukes are impossible to stop on that just fyi.
creator: blly
date: 2008-08-15T15:14:31-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: in a 1v1.. yea i would agreea nuke is hard to stop.. thats why if they take the time to nuke your barracks/ref you should be rushing their base and killing the ob.. not falling back trying to defend it
creator: karmai
date: 2008-08-15T15:39:50-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: karmai wrote on Fri, 15 August 2008 10:39 in a 1v1.. yea i would agreea nuke is hard to stop.. thats why if they take the time to nuke your barracks/ref you should be rushing their base and killing the ob.. not falling back trying to defend it i was the one nuking...but still i killed his wf already so i guess i deserved to win.
creator: blly
date: 2008-08-15T16:26:12-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: I think it should be fix, its a glitch and needs it its not our fault people learned to play using this glitch i mean you might as well let them hack or glitch kill...yes it will change game play a little bit make it harder but thats the way it should be game play will change for BOTH teams so do say it will ruin ur team work etc etc fix it....if you guys really wanna keep it you can do it server side easily but you CANT fix it serverside only people who really want this to stay are hackers and clans cause clans are the only group of people who play the game the same way every single map (same strategies same gameplay etc)while marathons and etc do what ever they want where outside pt really is not needed you know how sick i am of people refilling outside....and heres another thing every single clan member or clan loves the glitches...they want wall hope, outside pt, glitch kill,wall hug...every clan member iv talked to want all the glitches they use to win the game...the list goes on so of course they want outside pt to be there but they want most glitches to be there well to bad its a glitch and anyone with real skill should get it fixed if they want outside pt..set up a old school ren clan channel without the update or do it serverside if possible....
creator: _SSnipe_
date: 2008-08-15T19:55:17-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Dude if you read the thread properly you will quickly learn that most people from clanwars.cc (where they play..... clanwars) want this fixed...
creator: Caveman
date: 2008-08-15T20:04:16-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Caveman wrote on Fri, 15 August 2008 13:04 Dude if you read the thread properly you will quickly learn that most people from clanwars.cc (where they play..... clanwars) want this fixed... sorry but i didnt read much...just saying most of the ones IV talked to want it the way it is so ya
creator: _SSnipe_
date: 2008-08-15T20:05:42-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Killing a barracks would be extremely easy to kill without the pt glitch(which doesnt always work). If a skilled player with an sbh that cloaks (or glitches and doesnt uncloak during plant) after laying a beacon pretty much cant be disarmed in a 1v1 situation. And even if he doesn't cloak its still extremely hard to disarm
creator: KobraOps
date: 2008-08-15T23:14:34-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: KobraOps wrote on Fri, 15 August 2008 18:14 Killing a barracks would be extremely easy to kill without the pt glitch(which doesnt always work). If a skilled player with an sbh that cloaks (or glitches and doesnt uncloak during plant) after laying a beacon pretty much cant be disarmed in a 1v1 situation. And even if he doesn't cloak its still extremely hard to disarm Funny how you never look in Nod's situation of loleasydisarm+points of right now.
creator: sadukar09
date: 2008-08-15T23:18:00-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: KobraOps wrote on Fri, 15 August 2008 18:14 Killing a barracks would be extremely easy to kill without the pt glitch(which doesnt always work). If a skilled player with an sbh that cloaks (or glitches and doesnt uncloak during plant) after laying a beacon pretty much cant be disarmed in a 1v1 situation. And even if he doesn't cloak its still extremely hard to disarm Could it be the fact that it's a 1vs1 match for a team-oriented game? I thought those were *supposed* to be hard?
creator: saberhawk
date: 2008-08-15T23:24:56-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: You'll hardly ever disarm a nuke in a 1v1. Even if it's right in front of a PT, what are the odds you'll get back in time, spawn at the right place, ... all in 30 seconds? Very low! Besides, u should be attacking instead of defending, no?
creator: Goztow
date: 2008-08-15T23:48:08-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Quote: sorry but i didnt read much...just saying most of the ones IV talked to want it the way it is so ya Please, please, please always read the entire thread before posting. Forums are to discuss things, not to place your opinion and walk away. It makes less of a long read for others as well if the same things wouldn't be posted over and over again. So please, in the future, read the entire thread.
creator: StealthEye
date: 2008-08-15T23:55:42-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: There's certain things in the game that make it interesting. Small exploits like PT's outside are the things that keep the game interesting. No one wants a plain game. It doesn't need fixing.
creator: genetix
date: 2008-08-16T05:14:02-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Fix it, i cant believe this is even being debated =/ Pointsfix needs to go in too.
creator: Nightma12
date: 2008-08-16T09:12:04-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: genetix wrote on Sat, 16 August 2008 00:14 There's certain things in the game that make it interesting. Small exploits like PT's outside are the things that keep the game interesting. No one wants a plain game. It doesn't need fixing. Ok, let's make blue hell happen 100% for you, since it keeps it interesting yes? You can't use vehicles.
creator: sadukar09
date: 2008-08-16T12:00:34-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Goztow wrote on Sat, 16 August 2008 00:48 You'll hardly ever disarm a nuke in a 1v1. Even if it's right in front of a PT, what are the odds you'll get back in time, spawn at the right place, ... all in 30 seconds? Very low! Besides, u should be attacking instead of defending, no? goz, from the moment you hear the nuke being planted you have 50 seconds to disarm it, as a tech can disarm in 7 seconds its definatly doable.
creator: Jamie or NuneGa
date: 2008-08-16T13:51:58-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: genetix wrote on Sat, 16 August 2008 00:14 There's certain things in the game that make it interesting. Small exploits like PT's outside are the things that keep the game interesting. No one wants a plain game. It doesn't need fixing. To not fix it would make it plain. While it's broken, you've got "Oh, they planted a beacon at that building there. Killed the planter, time to disarm it. Okay, bought Hotwire/Technician through the building here, disarming the beacon now. Ah, done, and with 20 seconds to spare. Time to go back to tank sniping." Fixed, you'll have something like this: "Oh, they planted a beacon at that building there. Shit, someone repair it, quickly! I've got the planter, he's dead now. Crap! 20 seconds left and no one's here yet! All right, I'll go into the building and buy a Hotwire/Technician. Okay, got it! Repairing, repairing... Come on, faster! Oh, good, an Engineer is helping me out! Whew! Thankfully we repaired that off in time. Great job!"
creator: cmatt42
date: 2008-08-16T16:49:27-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Goztow wrote on Fri, 15 August 2008 18:48 You'll hardly ever disarm a nuke in a 1v1. Even if it's right in front of a PT, what are the odds you'll get back in time, spawn at the right place, ... all in 30 seconds? Very low! Besides, u should be attacking instead of defending, no? Im talking about in small games, where beacons dramatically effect the game. Btw its 45 seconds i think. If your any good u can disarm a beacon easily in a 1v1(hottie vs sbh for example), if its relatively close to a pt. In large games with 10+ players on each team its not a huge difference if there is a pt or not.
creator: KobraOps
date: 2008-08-16T18:38:56-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: how long will this poll run?
creator: Jamie or NuneGa
date: 2008-08-16T20:50:37-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: why do i have the feeling some people are voting more then once
creator: _SSnipe_
date: 2008-08-16T22:08:49-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: It's a bug, bugs need fixed.
creator: ChewML
date: 2008-08-16T22:20:42-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: See, 84 votes dead even....block this shit.. Conclusion: Even with all those "pro fix" reasons, equal amount of people are voting to not fix it as to fix it. Why such shocking results? Because the specific intent of this patch was to change as minimal (if at all) the current gameplay. These border line issues should be voted on, on these forums, in these sections and let other people from other servers sites come here and vote on this and the pointsfix.... But its clear which side will win, the community.
creator: trooprm02
date: 2008-08-16T23:03:20-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Just to clarify, Quote: "* everyone is used to it/uses it, so why remove it?" Is quite incorrect.
creator: TruYuri
date: 2008-08-16T23:13:39-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: This is a flawed way to get the masses opinion, since A) most of the mass doesn't come here, and B) of the ones that do, an even smaller amount will see this and vote. The posting seems to indicate overwhelmingly for fixing this, and so do the reasons stated, but the poll itself says otherwise. I think that alone says which argument is more valid.
creator: Chuck Norris
date: 2008-08-16T23:15:28-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Lol, can't believe it's still a tie, ever since the voting started. Are you sure no-one's creating new accounts to vote?
creator: TD
date: 2008-08-17T00:32:53-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: TD wrote on Sat, 16 August 2008 17:32 Lol, can't believe it's still a tie, ever since the voting started. Are you sure no-one's creating new accounts to vote? thats what im saying there are a few inmuature people here who do shit like that
creator: _SSnipe_
date: 2008-08-17T03:25:16-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Omg I cant believe that 43 People think this shouldnt be fixed. I can understand concerns regarding Balancing (although I disagree with them), but that people actually believe that Westwood intended this, it makes me puke.
creator: Herr Surth
date: 2008-08-17T10:10:52-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: How is this for an idea, we could introduce ONE outside PT on some maps WHERE there is an inbalance (eg, field @ bar), and any other places where we think there is an imbalance in not having them, this can be in the form of a stand outside of the bar but really is a pt, it can be at the front of the bar so if they have to refill they have to run to the front of the bar but not all the way inside (which saves nod time and doesn't make it totally impossible for gdi), and if someone thinks there is an imbalance on any other map where you will need one of these, we can put one of those down, whilst disabling the ability to acess an indoor PT globally.
creator: wassabii
date: 2008-08-17T10:26:26-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: I think it should be tested just like the points fix was. I volunteer my server for it.
creator: Crimson
date: 2008-08-17T10:48:21-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: I hope this piece of crap forum software allows you to review who voted on a poll to check if people just made double accounts to vote more than once.
creator: Goztow
date: 2008-08-17T11:34:21-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Well, we won. Don't fix it, the community has had their say...
creator: trooprm02
date: 2008-08-17T18:12:18-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: trooprm02 wrote on Sun, 17 August 2008 20:12 Well, we won. Don't fix it, the community has had their say... The poll ain't over, is it?
creator: Goztow
date: 2008-08-17T18:17:54-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Fix it, but not default.
creator: gkl21
date: 2008-08-17T18:25:04-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: 45 people, and none of those people have brought up an argument as to why it shouldnt be fixed...
creator: Herr Surth
date: 2008-08-17T18:28:18-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Surth, you're a complete fucking idiot i listed TONS of reasons why it should be fixed, and most of all.. because this patch is fixing glitches, and the PT bug is a huge glitch/problem TT has completly lost any support i had if they won't fix this shit, fucking retarded, @ clanwars.cc theres only 2 -3 fucking idiots fighting to have this fixed, both of them are the idiots from clanwars.cc fighting here, have no ide awhat they're talking about
creator: karmai
date: 2008-08-17T19:09:54-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Lol sorry I forgot a not, I meant to say that there is no reason NOT to fix it since its CLEARLY a bug and it will very probably help gameplay too. Sorry karmai :S
creator: Herr Surth
date: 2008-08-17T19:14:34-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: A little misunderstanding on the internet is big stuff. It's just troop making new accounts to vote on this, so yeah.
creator: sadukar09
date: 2008-08-17T19:59:17-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: deerm,,,,,,,,lol. So goztow, I see why you never said when the poll would end. QUICK EVERY1 MAKES ACCOUNTS TO BET US11!!!! Wow goztow, now you can't just get fat with it and leave it open untill your side is winning, then close it. Watch, if this doesn't happen exactly as I have stated, I will personally paypal you $50.
creator: trooprm02
date: 2008-08-17T20:24:52-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: sadukar09 wrote on Sun, 17 August 2008 12:59 A little misunderstanding on the internet is big stuff. It's just troop making new accounts to vote on this, so yeah. i can agre with that first it votes to get fixed then out of no where it jumps lot of votes when it starts winning...
creator: _SSnipe_
date: 2008-08-17T20:29:04-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: You really are on strong stuff. I didn't make the poll and I don't decide when it closes. And no need to send me daddies money, I make my own living fine enough. Waste it on other stuff.
creator: Goztow
date: 2008-08-17T20:30:38-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: I cannot see why people have posted it shouldn't be fixed. They are apperently unaware that when it is fixed a server-owner can add pt's outside of the buildings. Which is in standard maps easy job and server-side!!! (for newmaps use level-re-edit) So that would give the oppertunity for server owners to choose themselfs whetever or not they want pt's to the outside of the buildings. Better than the solution to not fix it where every server will have the pt's to the outside buildings and there is no choice at all. So everyone can use the pt's as how they like them to be and the bug is gone then.
creator: Reaver11
date: 2008-08-18T10:12:59-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Do take note that not everyone who plays Renegade regularly visits these forums- If atall.
creator: GEORGE ZIMMER
date: 2008-08-18T10:15:46-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Reaver11 wrote on Mon, 18 August 2008 05:12 I cannot see why people have posted it shouldn't be fixed. They are apperently unaware that when it is fixed a server-owner can add pt's outside of the buildings. Which is in standard maps easy job and server-side!!! (for newmaps use level-re-edit) So that would give the oppertunity for server owners to choose themselfs whetever or not they want pt's to the outside of the buildings. Better than the solution to not fix it where every server will have the pt's to the outside buildings and there is no choice at all. So everyone can use the pt's as how they like them to be and the bug is gone then. That's actually the silliest thing about this debate. The fix would only be for the stock Westwood-made maps, alongside other map fixes like adding missing spawn points and correcting badly placed zones. There was never any question as to if we are going to fix outside purchase terminals. The whole purpose of this poll was to ascertain what people felt about the fix. Judging by people who actually posted their opinions about the matter, it's a welcomed fix. I personally voted "Yes" because I believe that its imperative to ship a set of maps that is as bug-free as we can get them. However, we were always planning on creating a secondary set of maps that include all fixes sans this one. Server owners who believe that the outside purchase terminals are vital to gameplay could always install them. Renegade is driving away new players in it's current "default" state. That's the whole reason behind this patch. We aren't making it to entertain our egos, we are simply making it because we love Renegade.
creator: saberhawk
date: 2008-08-18T12:53:14-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Uh, has anyone thought about ripping the ramp to the top of the Barracks out of Canyon? Either that, or stick a blocker there so that we don't have any more nukes atop the Barracks (that nuke spot would be practically a guaranteed kill without rear PTs and I'm afraid that's a little unbalanced towards Nod).
creator: =HT=T-Bird
date: 2008-08-18T14:16:00-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: =HT=T-Bird wrote on Mon, 18 August 2008 16:16 Uh, has anyone thought about ripping the ramp to the top of the Barracks out of Canyon? Either that, or stick a blocker there so that we don't have any more nukes atop the Barracks (that nuke spot would be practically a guaranteed kill without rear PTs and I'm afraid that's a little unbalanced towards Nod). All it takes is 6 mines, though .
creator: Goztow
date: 2008-08-18T14:18:37-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: those 6 mines can easily be wall hugged on top of barracks... oh is that getting fixed?
creator: Jamie or NuneGa
date: 2008-08-18T14:34:56-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: trooprm02 wrote on Sun, 17 August 2008 15:24 Goztow will leave it open untill the fix it side is winning, then close it. Watch, if this doesn't happen exactly as I have stated, I will personally paypal him $50. Lets just see....
creator: trooprm02
date: 2008-08-18T16:04:41-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: What part of "I didn't start this poll" did u miss again?
creator: Goztow
date: 2008-08-18T18:34:31-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: I didn't know that there was a law things had to be done in one patch and this is our only chance. Obviously it's not a clear majority. Don't fix it for this patch. Worry about the glitches most don't know about but many are still taking advantage of. Get a baseline and build ontop of it. BTW, I voted for don't fix it. I'm suggesting this be brought back and revoted on after this first patch. I'm not trying to force my preference on whether or not the change actually takes affect. I think it should be postponed.
creator: genetix
date: 2008-08-19T02:46:49-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: troops a fucking dumbass i always laugh when i read his post
creator: _SSnipe_
date: 2008-08-19T03:08:45-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: genetix wrote on Mon, 18 August 2008 21:46 I didn't know that there was a law things had to be done in one patch and this is our only chance. Obviously it's not a clear majority. Don't fix it for this patch. Worry about the glitches most don't know about but many are still taking advantage of. Get a baseline and build ontop of it. BTW, I voted for don't fix it. I'm suggesting this be brought back and revoted on after this first patch. I'm not trying to force my preference on whether or not the change actually takes affect. I think it should be postponed. We never said if it was going to be for this patch or for a (possible) future patch...
creator: saberhawk
date: 2008-08-19T03:23:49-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: nunega i feel like i lose brain cells reading your posts
creator: karmai
date: 2008-08-19T04:57:12-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: mac wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 03:31 Note that there will be either a "unfixpt" or a "fixpt" seperate patch available to keep everyone happy.. pointless if u make 2 versions, but i prefert not fixed
creator: Stonekirby
date: 2008-08-19T09:32:18-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: karmai wrote on Tue, 19 August 2008 06:57 nunega i feel like i lose brain cells reading your posts LOL
creator: TD
date: 2008-08-19T10:27:26-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: Stonekirby wrote on Tue, 19 August 2008 04:32 mac wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 03:31 Note that there will be either a "unfixpt" or a "fixpt" seperate patch available to keep everyone happy.. pointless if u make 2 versions, but i prefert not fixed This is the problem with all of you people arguing of not wanting something to change. The TT team can just make the change and say 'fuck you' to leaving it the same (to the fixed version). No, they are not doing that though. They are nice enough to make 2 'versions' to make all your complainers happy and this is the treatment you give them? Grow up. At least they are making both sides happy and you are just being difficult.
creator: gkl21
date: 2008-08-19T12:04:21-00:00

Re: Fix outside PTs?
type: item
description: am i arguing ? no im not i dont even care about that fix. i just want to know whats the point when some ppl cant acces pts from outside and others can ?? seriuosly i cant see it
creator: Stonekirby
date: 2008-08-19T12:49:31-00:00