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C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
Maybe a way to get rid of these Nickname "Stealers" ?
Removing Directconnect in it's current form. The only way to prevent it is to only allow XWIS accounts. Perhaps that we look into creating something like +xwisconnect, but that remeans highly uncertain. Particularly because we don't even know if it's really possible. If we can get it to work properly, we might ditch the current directconnect method.
Our bot in MP-Gaming allows players to register their names, so when they join, they are authed, if a other IP is detected or they didn't auth, they are kicked.
the auth is a good idea, because i always change my IP
IronWarrior wrote on Sun, 29 June 2008 19:48 Our bot in MP-Gaming allows players to register their names, so when they join, they are authed, if a other IP is detected or they didn't auth, they are kicked. Personally I wouldn't like that, and I don't think it's a real solution to the problem. It's more of a workaround IMHO.
Brenbot allows !auth'ing. The server owners need to make a choice IMO. They want people to be able to join with any nick and any serial (as they allow gamespy / direct connect) but they don't want people to abuse it... I'm sure a public patch for stopping direct connect completely will be released sooner or later. But will serevr owners use it? Or will they just go for the extra players on gamespy and take the nick spoofers with that? You can't get one without the other at this moment.
NOOOOO!! Keep direct connect. It's the only thing I use because XWIS can't use my full internet name.
We will not block it, at least not entirely and probably not at all.
A lot of people only use gamespy and direct connect so removing it would create problems for a lot of players, furthermore a lot of people like to be able to have names with characters such as '[' that wol will not allow. I think you TT people should leave direct connect etc as it is, if you succeed and cheats are stopped then nick faking will not be able to cause too much damage anyway, and a simple ip check can always remedy problems caused by nick fakers.
Quote: I think you TT people should leave direct connect etc as it is, if you succeed and cheats are stopped then nick faking will not be able to cause too much damage anyway, and a simple ip check can always remedy problems caused by nick fakers. Not really: ip's are very dynamic nowadays and you can be playing at a friend's house.
Direct-connect should be changed so that the player must first allow it using a server chat command while playing normally on the server. Direct-connect also annoyingly allows players to have a / in their name, stopping anyone from being able to !ban !forcerg etc on them.
Quote: Direct-connect should be changed so that the player must first allow it using a server chat command while playing normally on the server. I'm not sure what you mean exactly? Quote: Direct-connect also annoyingly allows players to have a / in their name, stopping anyone from being able to !ban !forcerg etc on them. Don't know about that, but isn't that a problem with the bot, rather than it is a Renegade bug?
I think he means a player would have to connect first though XWIS and tell the server he wants to direct connect before he can do so.
RoShamBo wrote on Sat, 05 July 2008 21:06 I think he means a player would have to connect first though XWIS and tell the server he wants to direct connect before he can do so. Yes. If someone has a / in their name then as soon as you type their name out the chat-box immediately changes to private-message them. It's a normal feature of renegade that can be exploited as I wrote before so that you can't actually finish typing any ban, kick, noob, rec etc commands out. (When you type "/" followed by a player name in the chat-box the messaging system allows you to private-message them)
I think you can usually write the other part of the name as long as it is unique. I do agree that the / in the middle of a word should not be completed though. I'll see how easy it is to fix. About the XWIS connect thing. It's probably hard to do, but it is on the todo list already to be investigated. If it seems too hard we will not do it though.
StealthEye wrote on Sat, 05 July 2008 14:02 I think you can usually write the other part of the name as long as it is unique. I do agree that the / in the middle of a word should not be completed though. I'll see how easy it is to fix. About the XWIS connect thing. It's probably hard to do, but it is on the todo list already to be investigated. If it seems too hard we will not do it though. In theory, all you need to do is login to xwis, join the channel and then direct connect.
Well I and many others wish not to have to connect via XWIS to join a game. I prefer to type /ren into IRC and join the server I want. Why should I have to spend 5 minutes loading Renegade that logging into XWIS to play on a server?
Caveman wrote on Sat, 05 July 2008 14:14 Well I and many others wish not to have to connect via XWIS to join a game. I prefer to type /ren into IRC and join the server I want. Why should I have to spend 5 minutes loading Renegade that logging into XWIS to play on a server? I'm with this guy
I think this topic shows pretty clearly why... Besides, dc would still be possible as long as you have the password.
Actually i have been toying with the idea of making an xwisconnect command line option, so that you can basically go directly into an xwis channel and connect to a server. Dunno yet if its entirely possible without hacking up half of renegade but I am probably gonna try anyway.
Maybe direct connect should require passwords.
Possibilities: - Block DC entirely as a serverside option. - Change DC to log in to XWIS before connecting ingame and require XWIS connection on the server. - Change DC to require a personal password for registered nicks. Although I like the latter solution most, it does not ensure that the serials people are using are correct, and therefore serial banning can be bypassed.
Can't you go check in the xwis "database" if a nick exists. If not, allow it to disconnect. This way, people that want their name protected, could register it on xwis.
Yeah you go convince Olaf to help us -_-.
I repeat.. I do not want to have to load this and that to play a game. I should be allowed to join any public server I want with any nick I want (given its not taken or being used) The option to allow people to connect but must use a password is the same as them just registering there nick with BrenBot or NR. If you use the option to give people passwords server side and someone leaks it.. You're back to square one. If I wanted to connect to XWIS I would. I dont want to be forced to do it.
Why not? If its all automatically it would only take a few seconds. And in return server owners would actually be capable of banning people.
Why should i allow you to use my nickname when I'm not playing, tbh?
The last time I saw RR it only allowed verified serials from GSA/DC. I assume RR is going into this patch. So you will beable to ban via serials anyways. Gozy I did say, if its not already taken...If you're that worried about your nick being used on servers then goto that server and register your nick. If you do this the way you have your server currently setup.. Where DCers have to put a password and that password gets leaked to the public.. You will be back where you started.
Except that RR doesn't block unverified serials since all TFD serials are unverified.
And keygens would most probably work as well. RR is not going into this patch, but if it would help we could port the serial validation though. Imo it's not very useful to do so however. I was talking of per-user passwords on servers. Like now with registering to a bot, but enforced and automatically. XWIS users will not need to log in, DC'ers should add their password as a commandline option. If someone leaks their password, then it's their own fault if their name is used by someone else. I don't see what the problem is with automatically logging into XWIS to validate your identity though. It wouldn't change anything for you, it's just that server owners will then be able to avoid ban evading.
Caveman wrote on Sun, 06 July 2008 18:46 The last time I saw RR it only allowed verified serials from GSA/DC. I assume RR is going into this patch. So you will beable to ban via serials anyways. Gozy I did say, if its not already taken...If you're that worried about your nick being used on servers then goto that server and register your nick. If you do this the way you have your server currently setup.. Where DCers have to put a password and that password gets leaked to the public.. You will be back where you started. Not all server allow for registering your nickname and servers continuously change. So you find it easier for me to go register my nickname on a good 50 servers than for you to stick to max 9 nicks...
Well I guess only Yrr can answer the point with unverified serials because I often see people being kicked for a shared/unverified serial... Seye.. We take someone like my brother who uses GSA to play... Im gonna just to try and explain to him (who is very computer illiterate) how to put in a password using GSA (When GSA doesn't have an option for this) to play on his fav server. I can see a lot of people getting really annoyed because they wont know how to configure there DC program for the extra command line. Gozy.. Am I gonna expect to find you on my communities server? No, because I know that you mainly play on your own server, just like your not gonna find me on n00bstories and therefore I have registered my nick with that server. If the server doesn't haven't some type of identification software then should you really be playing there?
That's not the point. If someone uses my nickname to cheat on a server or to let's say verbally abuse some moderators on that server, then people will not know it isn't me. Especially people that are less involved in the community. And i just timed it: it takes me exactly 20 seconds to join my favorite server via xwis (from desktop to in server). I'm sure that's not much slower than gamespy, cause gamespy needs you to load its adds; though it might be a bit slower than dc.
Right and a quick IPsearch/nicksearch will quickly clear you as the person cheating/abusing people. From desktop to game it takes me like 5secs.. I type /ren into mIRC which is always open and my game loads within a few seconds.. The point is I don't want to have to install this or open that to play on my regular..
You're going to be installing this patch, unless you want version mismatch. I think having a system by which the server regulator (BR, NR etc) requires a password per person who wishes to use DC. Given that those using DC will be settled into their community(s) and therefore will be on the appropiate IRC channel at least once, I think this is the best way forward. All you'd have to do is (Once, and once only) type something like "!registerdc Caveman YOURPASS" in a PM to the bot. Then, when you used DC, the client would have that pass in the command line option and give a hash to the server, so that the server can check it's really you. So long as no one gets your pass, your nick's safe, and the spoofers can't get it either (Qkick if not ID'd, and ban if they repeat the offence?)
Thats what BrenBot does now... So why do it again but with the game itself where you have to add a command line to do it. You're only going to cause confusion with people that have no idea what they're doing with computers.
The existing DC mechanism is a total piece of crap anyhow. If at all possible, it should be reworked so that it works through XWIS (directly jumping to that server's channel and showing the prejoin screen if possible) instead of bypassing it completely. This will goof up those who use DC/GSA to bypass the XWIS nickname restrictions (is the 9-char limit on nicks WOLAPI's fault or the XWIS Server's fault?), though.
My guess is that it won't be changed because it'll be too hard to please everyone. I'm gonna drop this discussion now, 'cause if people start saying adding an extra 15 seconds isn't worth their time to stop a lot of cheaters and nick spoofers, then I'm out of arguments against those people, really...
Caveman, the reason why there are servers which are not listed on Gamespy are exactly because we do not want to have nick fakers and ban evaders in our server. The idea is not to restrict current Gamespy players more, it is to allow servers that are now restricted to XWIS to have the same security while being listed on Gamespy as well. If anything this will get you more possibilities to DC, rather than less. If there is a secure way to allow DC/Gamespy then BlackIntel will probably start using it again anyway.
Gozy you're not getting my point. The time example was just to show why [i]I[/] don't want to use XWIS itself.. I cannot be bothered to load Renegade and then login etc.. I would much prefer to type /ren and off I go. Seye; I don't care for other servers if this patch allows me to join more server then so be it but its not what im looking for. I don't want this security simply because I do not have the time to sit here and explain to all the non-xwis players how to setup GSA or RenIP or ASE etc.. to connect to our server because they have to have there own password. If the person is that worried about someone trying to be them then they can use the servers regulation bot to stop this.. If the server doesn't have this option then really people shouldn't be playing there. If you decide to discard this, atleast make the security configurable so the server owner can turn this off if he wishes not to have this 'security'
Caveman wrote on Mon, 07 July 2008 02:08 Gozy you're not getting my point. The time example was just to show why [i]I[/] don't want to use XWIS itself.. I cannot be bothered to load Renegade and then login etc.. I would much prefer to type /ren and off I go. I think we got your POV quite well: you're not willing to spend 15 secs on loading the game with the benefit to make it much harder for cheaters/ban-evaders to join the game at all. Same as I don't see a reason other than not having a valid serial for joining the game via gamespy.
@Caveman: I think I did see your point perfectly well. All you'd need to do is change your mIRC script to add something to it, which would take you 20 seconds one time. I do agree, though, that as little as possible should be changed to the way people login, as it could cause more people to leave this game because they do not understand what's going on. So if changes were to be made, they should be introduced as gently and transparantly as possible.
From a player's point of view the only benefits of DC are saving like 30 seconds of your time and choosing any nick you want. From a server admin's point of view letting players choose any nick they want every time they join is completely retarded and at the moment a major problem because of all the dumbass cheaters evading bans. If it wasn't for the many people who are too damn lazy to log into xwis it would have been blocked a long time ago. I've never understood the point of GSA either... Why download a 3rd party program when the game lets you join servers with the default installation? Seems pointless to me. I've been informed by several people that I'm banned from a bunch of servers I have either not played on or have never even heard of. For me this isn't a problem, I don't care about my "reputation" and I play on very few servers; but, for people who play on various servers "namehackers" are a big problem for them. I don't mind DC users and I'm not saying they should be blocked, but the current situation we're in isn't very good. There needs to be more limitations to who can use nicknames and a way to make serial banning a little better than useless.
Goztow wrote on Mon, 07 July 2008 09:01 @Caveman: I think I did see your point perfectly well. All you'd need to do is change your mIRC script to add something to it, which would take you 20 seconds one time. I do agree, though, that as little as possible should be changed to the way people login, as it could cause more people to leave this game because they do not understand what's going on. So if changes were to be made, they should be introduced as gently and transparantly as possible. Yeah all I need to do.. Im quite capable of editing the script I made to do this, However, I have people that use GSA/ASE etc.. where it doesn't have the option to add extra command lines so I would have to try and explain to them who could very well be computer illiterate like my brother how to edit the game exe path to add the extra code.. I don't fancy trying to do this to a complete computer newb. So now i've got a choice, either spend my time explaining to these people or lose my player count. Make this DC blocker configurable so it can be turned off.
A possibility could perhaps be that when you use the "normal" (current) DC that you get a password screen just before you hop ingame. This system would automattically try to log you in at XWIS, without showing serverlistings etc. If your name is already taken, then you should just choose a different nick, no problem. Once done that, you can login easily with your name and pass either by changing your Directconnect to have a +password included, or by typing your password in. This also ensures us serverowners that the serials are real, and a valid method of banning. And since they are real, there is no/less need for IP/nick banning, which can atm cause false bans.
EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Mon, 07 July 2008 09:20 This also ensures us serverowners that the serials are real, and a valid method of banning. And since they are real, there is no/less need for IP/nick banning, which can atm cause false bans. I'm not really familiar with how GSA checks serials, if at all; would this block them from joining?
The FDS used to check GSA serials, however the GSA database didn't get update anymore after 2003 (or something like that), so server owners had to patch the server to stop verifying serials for GSA players. The xwis database IS updated, hence why it would be better to check serials of all players that join with that database. This also stops the argument of "GSA if needed for people without a valid serial": GSA access was never ment to not verify serials.
So if I understand correctly, EvilWhiteDragon's method would cross-check GSA players' serial with the XWIS database to make sure it's valid? If that's right this could solve so many problems we have
[08 Jul 08 - 12:27:31] <@AoWBoT1> Client 'joao46' (88.157.104.121:56041, serial b37d94f45663f975f0fa1a000f3153e3) disconnected (Kicked (Your CD Key was banned from the GameSpy network. Please use a valid unshared serial.)). ^^
Thats only for banned serials... Thats different.
Right so why not add the serials that we ban into that list and problem solved?
Uh list maintained by GameSpy? We need a maintainer? And you could still use keygens and fake serials.
Clown wrote on Tue, 08 July 2008 13:49 So if I understand correctly, EvilWhiteDragon's method would cross-check GSA players' serial with the XWIS database to make sure it's valid? If that's right this could solve so many problems we have I do think that's the idea. However, they might need Olaf's help for that.
Clown wrote on Tue, 08 July 2008 13:49 So if I understand correctly, EvilWhiteDragon's method would cross-check GSA players' serial with the XWIS database to make sure it's valid? If that's right this could solve so many problems we have Indeed, and would automatically create nickname protection, as everyone will connect through XWIS, even though they wouldn't notice. This has as main benefits that serverowners can properly ban, and that GSA players will get more servers to choose from As there is no real reason not to have your server on GSA then.
Any updates on this?
yeah it would be handy to merge the two together, and easily able to ban other nicks as well.
Direct connect should stay since most of the people lost their keys and stuff. What we need to do is register IP adresses with the nickname and if someone else joins with a different ip with your account, the game just qkicks him out of the server. The nickname owner can input multiple ips and even change them. Thats would be awesome!
YazooGang wrote on Mon, 26 October 2009 13:39 Direct connect should stay since most of the people lost their keys and stuff. What we need to do is register IP adresses with the nickname and if someone else joins with a different ip with your account, the game just qkicks him out of the server. The nickname owner can input multiple ips and even change them. Thats would be awesome! Sigh, it's been said before. Dynamic IP's gets in the way of this. How would it differentiate between a random person's IP and your IP that is different? Also why is it that half of this topic isn't even about the LAN spoof glitch?
true, ppl could hack your network, via something like hamahachi and do what?
Sladewill wrote on Mon, 26 October 2009 16:11 true, ppl could hack your network, via something like hamahachi and do what? what
andr3w282 wrote on Mon, 26 October 2009 20:21 Sladewill wrote on Mon, 26 October 2009 16:11 true, ppl could hack your network, via something like hamahachi and do what? what L O L
andr3w282 wrote on Mon, 26 October 2009 19:21 Sladewill wrote on Mon, 26 October 2009 16:11 true, ppl could hack your network, via something like hamahachi and do what? what Virtual-LAN programs, like Garena or ListChecker for WC3, or Hamahachi for games nobody plays. They fool the program running into thinking an external internet server is a local area network server. It's useful for games with defunct (Or nonexistant) online play options like Red Alert 1, or for games that have stricter latency standards for LAN play compared to online play (Which is what they're used for in WC3, mostly). The danger is, of course, that someone could use it for Renegade to use any nickname they cared to enter in LAN mode, even if directconnecting was removed.
Dover wrote on Tue, 27 October 2009 06:52 andr3w282 wrote on Mon, 26 October 2009 19:21 Sladewill wrote on Mon, 26 October 2009 16:11 true, ppl could hack your network, via something like hamahachi and do what? what Virtual-LAN programs, like Garena or ListChecker for WC3, or Hamahachi for games nobody plays. They fool the program running into thinking an external internet server is a local area network server. It's useful for games with defunct (Or nonexistant) online play options like Red Alert 1, or for games that have stricter latency standards for LAN play compared to online play (Which is what they're used for in WC3, mostly). The danger is, of course, that someone could use it for Renegade to use any nickname they cared to enter in LAN mode, even if directconnecting was removed. You could then only join servers in the same virtual network. Aka, you could then pick any nickname, but you wouldn't be able to join regular servers.
I know what hamatchi does - it's the fact he said "hack your network" via hamatchi. I lol'd hard. IMA HAXIN YOUR NETWORKZ THROUGH UR HAMATCHIZ With that, I still say what?. EWD took the words out of my mouth , there's absolutely nothing hamatchi can do that would have someone "nick spoof" in an online server. You can't "nick/ip" spoof with virtual networking( LAN over WAN LOLOL ). The technology doesn't correlate.
Lmfao: Hamahachi? Hamatchi? its Hamachi... Edit: OOPS! Quote: Spelling/Grammar: This is a gaming forum, not literature. Keep the urge to correct to yourself. If it pains you so much to see someone misspell a word, miss a comma, etc., give them lessons in private because we don't want to see it on the forums. However, we would appreciate it if everyone's post was at least legible.
YazooGang wrote on Tue, 27 October 2009 20:14 Lmfao: Hamahachi? Hamatchi? its Hamachi... Edit: OOPS! Quote: Spelling/Grammar: This is a gaming forum, not literature. Keep the urge to correct to yourself. If it pains you so much to see someone misspell a word, miss a comma, etc., give them lessons in private because we don't want to see it on the forums. However, we would appreciate it if everyone's post was at least legible. Actually, the correct term is VPN or VPN software if you want.
EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Tue, 27 October 2009 01:23 Dover wrote on Tue, 27 October 2009 06:52 andr3w282 wrote on Mon, 26 October 2009 19:21 Sladewill wrote on Mon, 26 October 2009 16:11 true, ppl could hack your network, via something like hamahachi and do what? what Virtual-LAN programs, like Garena or ListChecker for WC3, or Hamahachi for games nobody plays. They fool the program running into thinking an external internet server is a local area network server. It's useful for games with defunct (Or nonexistant) online play options like Red Alert 1, or for games that have stricter latency standards for LAN play compared to online play (Which is what they're used for in WC3, mostly). The danger is, of course, that someone could use it for Renegade to use any nickname they cared to enter in LAN mode, even if directconnecting was removed. You could then only join servers in the same virtual network. Aka, you could then pick any nickname, but you wouldn't be able to join regular servers. I wouldn't know, but I guess that makes sense. The only experience I have with VPN software is ListChecker for WC3, and since it all works through Blizzard's public Battle.net service, there is never a distinction made. I guess it was a bit presumptuous to think Battle.net and XWIS are alike in that regard.
EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Tue, 27 October 2009 19:53 YazooGang wrote on Tue, 27 October 2009 20:14 Lmfao: Hamahachi? Hamatchi? its Hamachi... Edit: OOPS! Quote: Spelling/Grammar: This is a gaming forum, not literature. Keep the urge to correct to yourself. If it pains you so much to see someone misspell a word, miss a comma, etc., give them lessons in private because we don't want to see it on the forums. However, we would appreciate it if everyone's post was at least legible. Actually, the correct term is VPN or VPN software if you want. But the name of the VPN software in question is indeed Hamachi.
I think Direct Connect should query a database of XWIS Nicks to see if there is one before that person joins.. so we dont have 300 "crimson", "nightma12", "halo2pac"'s running around. I absolutely hate nick stealers. Why be called by a nick or a name if someone else has it too?
I think serials are out of the question; sure they might work for a while, but look ahead a little ways. Tib sun was released as freeware a few months ago; we have RA2 to go, and then Renegade, then what? Obviously there is going to either be a serial work around by EA (probably some stolen keygen/cdcrack or w/e (like they did with BattleField2 for steam)) or these new free players can't join on-line. And face it, there will be a lot more serials floating around once this happens, and I have the suspicion that they'll be able to easily acquire a new serial. Sure, you could say "EA won't ever release Renegade for free" but I think thats just banking everything on luck. You do that and they do release, then all the code made to check serials was a waste of time. (Then again it is EA, so they might release it for free with broken internet anyways).
Isnt there a way to see how someone connects to your server, like gamespy, DC, or XWIS and owners should be able to maintain what they would like to allow players to connect by. Even if you dont broadcast to gamespy users can directly connect.
I saw a few hundred posts up someone was crying about dynamic Ip's? just have a system with a universal 'password' for your nick, and have a tool that connects to a server, sends you nick, pass and IP. then join the server you want. that server then connects to the service and checks your ip. mismatch? add the mismatched Ip to a list of spoof attemptors. good to go. sorta.. kinda... like renguard.. except more robust.
The problem is within this 'universal' password.
How is that? a universal password is already in use for your nick on xwis. just have to implement that in a different login server.
halo2pac wrote on Thu, 29 April 2010 13:02 How is that? a universal password is already in use for your nick on xwis. just have to implement that in a different login server. Okay, great idea. Now how will that any better than just using XWIS directly? Furthermore, how are you going to explain to *new* players what this separate login server is, where to download the connection tool and how to create an account on it. Also, how will you solve username disputes? Usernames and passwords aren't something that can be copied from XWIS (this *is* seperate, right?) and there are certainly players with malicious intents who would attempt to steal usernames that haven't been claimed yet.
That last one wouldn't be different than when xwis took over. They also reset the nicks... That's how SoqMajors registered my nickname "Goztow".
They reset the nicks o.0? Also you could just copy the nicks to the new DB. some one has to have the DB... so it has to be possible to make a copy.
halo2pac wrote on Sat, 01 May 2010 14:35 They reset the nicks o.0? Also you could just copy the nicks to the new DB. some one has to have the DB... so it has to be possible to make a copy. You assume Olaf wants to help.
If he wants to help u might as well let dc'ers login to xwis .
halo2pac wrote on Sat, 01 May 2010 14:35 They reset the nicks o.0? I assume they mean after a year or so.
I mean: they have reset them once, when WOL was taken over by xwis.