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Well, When a "War of the explorers" argument is sparked, It's usually opinions, hardly any real facts to make any the winner. But yesterday I was googling some shit and I came across a website, And when the page loaded I was greeted to this: I've never facepalmed so hard in my life, Did you facepalm to that image? It's reasons are so invalid it's idiotic. "Firefox blocks pop-up windows" - So does IE 7, Non get past my custom settings. "It's more secure against viruses and spyware" - I've never got malware through IE7, never. "It keeps Microsoft from controlling the future of the Internet" - well, It's ironic that the firefox logo is a fox wrapped around the world? plus Microsoft don't control the Internet so that's a stupid argument. "It's better for web-designers and coders" - well if you can't understand the simple code for HTML and PHP and code for one browser, You're pretty much a noob coder that doesn't even consider other people and their choices on what explorer the use. "features like tabbed browsing make reading webpages easier" - IE 7 and others has tabs and a zoom function making text much bigger. So, fellow forum goers, can you understand and sympathize with my view point on how hard I face palmed? /rant
Well seeing as I'm a FF fanboy I agree with what the thing says, Get Firefox! Though I would agree that making a site readable only with a certain browser is stupid and idiotic.
Two things. 1. That was made before Internet Explorer version 7 existed. 2. "well if you can't understand the simple code for HTML and PHP and code for one browser, You're pretty much a noob coder that doesn't even consider other people and their choices on what explorer the use." The thing is, this right here is EXACTLY what the quote means. Many people code ONLY for Internet Explorer simply becuase it's the most used browser. Back before Firefox became more spread, MANY things didn't work in it. If it spreads, it forces those making pages to code for the standards and not the browser, making the browser less important, as it should be. Then, if the browser doesn't follow standards, it's the browsers fault, just like it was (and sort of still is) with Internet Explorer. Of course nobody will code something that doesn't work in Internet Explorer becuase of how widespread it is. Oh, wait... Yes, this is a stupid thing for a page to do, but oh well, it only hurts them. By the way, I prefer Firefox personally, but don't have a fanboy bias for it or against internet Explorer.
Get Firefox
TD wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 08:46 Get Firefox Propaganda for the win. @Chucknorris: sure, Firefox is used by many, and before firefox IE and other browsers were code friendly and when Firefox came along it displayed websites really crazy, But.. forcing you to use a browser to view a website sucks, sure it's their loss but it's still stupid, and a few (not all) of their reasons are invalid, and if that site was created before IE7 it's making their website and web-owner look like complete morons. but ugh! the stupidity is overwhelming!!
IE7 doesn't work for me, doesn't detect my Hi-speed connection. Firefox does, so Firefox wins.
sadukar09 wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 11:40 IE7 doesn't work for me, doesn't detect my Hi-speed connection. Firefox does, so Firefox wins. what? Elaborate.
When I updated to IE7, I open up the browser, it says I'm NOT connected to the internet (The no connections page.) when I actually am connected, Firefox still can connect.
One thing i've noticed is that IE7 doesn't load pages unless you click into the window or move your mouse. This happens on my mothers lappy with Vista.
See, here's the thing, you're basing your facepalm off of YOUR experiences with IE7. The thing is, it's been proven that compared to IE6 (which was the intended target), Firefox is much faster, safer, and protected a fuckload better against pop-ups. Firefox did this without having to tweak settings (granted, which isn't that hard), while allowing most of what's wanted through. Most users don't know enough to begin tweaking their browser for the maximum performance. Why buy a POS car that you'll have to fix up and tune to match a sports car's performance when you can get a sports car with a sports car's performance for the same price, or just slightly higher? Plus, IE6 fails in regards to W3C standards. Most of the issues I encounter are IE-based, and I do make it a point to validate my coding. If my sites work in Firefox, they generally work just as well in Opera and Safari. The only problem browser seems to be IE, generally 6. Edit: Fixed the whole "fail/win" thing.
Hey jball, do me a favor and drop the fail/win shit... Your otherwise intelligent replies sound so stupid when you put that in there. Don't be a channer.
IronWarrior wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 10:28 Get FireFox, it is alot better. Some of you firefox fanboys are getting really stubborn.
cheesesoda wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 15:26 See, here's the thing, you're basing your facepalm off of YOUR experiences with IE7. The thing is, it's been proven that compared to IE6 (which was the intended target), Firefox is much faster, safer, and protected a fuckload better against pop-ups. Firefox did this without having to tweak settings (granted, which isn't that hard), while allowing most of what's wanted through. Most users don't know enough to begin tweaking their browser for the maximum performance. Why buy a POS car that you'll have to fix up and tune to match a sports car's performance when you can get a sports car with a sports car's performance for the same price, or just slightly higher? Plus, IE6 fails in regards to W3C standards. Most of the issues I encounter are IE-based, and I do make it a point to validate my coding. If my sites work in Firefox, they generally work just as well in Opera and Safari. The only problem browser seems to be IE, generally 6. Edit: Fixed the whole "fail/win" thing. Yeah, But what's the point on keeping that message there? There isn't. I'm pointing out that, The web developer is leaving that page up even though it's out-dated and invalid, and making statements that are now lies, and even so, making them seem like morons, So I needed to rant at some stupidity because eh, it's good at relieving anger. Don't get me wrong, I use Firefox now and then for web development and testing it's Betas, I don't use it as my main browser because IE 7 just works better on my pc plus it doesn't waste a shit load of memory (granted, Firefox V3 beta fixed this.) Originally Blue wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 17:18 IronWarrior wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 10:28 Get FireFox, it is alot better. Some of you firefox fanboys are getting really stubborn. And to nitpick, BlueThen is right (assuming Iron wasn't being sarcastic) Even though I state my reasons on why I choose Blue paint over Red, There's always a bunch of morons insisting to use Red.
Opera owns them both
Well, I still think that Firefox is a little faster than IE7 in terms of the UI and browsing speed. I'm using Firefox Beta 5 though. Other than that, I don't see any major differences between the two browsers.
cheesesoda wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 09:26 See, here's the thing, you're basing your facepalm off of YOUR experiences with IE7. The thing is, it's been proven that compared to IE6 (which was the intended target), Firefox is much faster, safer, and protected a fuckload better against pop-ups. Firefox did this without having to tweak settings (granted, which isn't that hard), while allowing most of what's wanted through. Most users don't know enough to begin tweaking their browser for the maximum performance. Why buy a POS car that you'll have to fix up and tune to match a sports car's performance when you can get a sports car with a sports car's performance for the same price, or just slightly higher? Plus, IE6 fails in regards to W3C standards. Most of the issues I encounter are IE-based, and I do make it a point to validate my coding. If my sites work in Firefox, they generally work just as well in Opera and Safari. The only problem browser seems to be IE, generally 6. Edit: Fixed the whole "fail/win" thing. Notice how FireFox 2 was released about 2 years after IE6.
Originally Blue wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 11:21 cheesesoda wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 09:26 See, here's the thing, you're basing your facepalm off of YOUR experiences with IE7. The thing is, it's been proven that compared to IE6 (which was the intended target), Firefox is much faster, safer, and protected a fuckload better against pop-ups. Firefox did this without having to tweak settings (granted, which isn't that hard), while allowing most of what's wanted through. Most users don't know enough to begin tweaking their browser for the maximum performance. Why buy a POS car that you'll have to fix up and tune to match a sports car's performance when you can get a sports car with a sports car's performance for the same price, or just slightly higher? Plus, IE6 fails in regards to W3C standards. Most of the issues I encounter are IE-based, and I do make it a point to validate my coding. If my sites work in Firefox, they generally work just as well in Opera and Safari. The only problem browser seems to be IE, generally 6. Edit: Fixed the whole "fail/win" thing. Notice how FireFox 2 was released about 2 years after IE6. Where does it say in that page that it meant Firefox 2?
Hey I used to be a big fan for IE and was very against FireFox and everything. But tired FireFox once and never gone back, I do sometimes use IE, but FireFox rocks.
Opera
I really don't understand how a web browser can attract fanboys...
i really don understand how pills can atract
I've been using Firefox since before it was Firefox, and I've yet to have a bad experience with it. I've also been using Opera for some time now, and find it to be on par with Firefox and, though I prefer the look and feel of Firefox, Opera does load a number of pages which for quite a while wouldn't load in Firefox. Since I got my new computer a few weeks ago, I've also been using Safari and have a fairly good impression of that browser as well. I have IE7 installed, but I never use it. I just don't trust the software after having had several rather bad experiences with IE6 back before I switched to what was at the time called Firebird- and, of course, the present issues with my parents, who steadfastly refuse to even touch an alternate browser because they think that whatever came with the system must inherently be better. Their system, unlike my past three machines which have all run a combination of Firefox and one or more other browsers, and using the very same security software (AVG, ZoneAlarm, Ad-Aware, and Spybot), seems to be rife with malware every damn time I look at it. They don't visit any less-than-reputable sites (they also don't clear their cache and history, which is how I know that), but still end up with browser hijacks, trojans, and all manner of other nasty nasties which- amazingly- my sister and I who do use alternate browsers never seem to get. Frankly, I don't care how much better/faster/safer MS has made IE7; they had their chance and blew it, so I'll use the competition. Take your pick- Firefox, Opera, Safari; the competition has shown me nothing but superior performance.
Granted, I am a FF fanboy, but I'll try and be as fair and unbaised as I can... Firstly, Firefox 2 was simply better than IE6, it did stop more popups, it had tabbed browsing for convenience, etc... Compared to IE7, sure IE7 now has many of the features FF has and more, including tabbed browsing, better popup blocker support. But if you've actually ever used FF vs. IE7, I think you'd find it's just so much easier. IE7 goes too far with it's attempted protection. Have you noticed it blocks nearly EVERYTHING until you ok it? Any sort of popup window (even one specifically designed for the site) is blocked by that dumb bar at the top until you allow it. Whenever you try and download ANYTHING it's like "Are you sure you want to download this???" Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have clicked it. It prevents interactions with Flash animations until you click on the Flash to activate it. It's just TOO much protection, and therefore, inconvenient. On the point of Microsoft controlling the internet... Obviously, Microsoft does not control the internet, and never could, however, they can control what content sites have by implementing code or scripts that only work with IE. Let's just be honest, the less control Microsoft has over our lives, the better. Finally, on a popular torrent site I occasionally visit for completely legal reasons, a few months back they had a statistic that FF finally beat out IE in percentage of visitors who used it. Therefore, FF is becoming more and more popular, and millions of people can't all be wrong about FF. It seems to me that you've never even bothered to use FF, and for that reason it's just unfair for you to bash FF, especially over IE. I think if you took the time to get your head out of Microsoft's ass and tried Firefox for even 10 mins you'd just see that you just enjoy it more. EDIT: I see there you use IE7. Quick question, where's the Menu bar... How would I configure my browser settings, or organize my favorites, or open a new window, or view my history. Defaulting the menu bar as hidden... Clever. Bravo Microsoft. (Yes I'm aware that it can be displayed, but to hide it away at first is just... dumb. I don't wanna guess what all the little pictures mean, I just want clear, plain, easy to use words on a menu bar....)
Firefox more secure? Ha ha ha. IE at least didn't/doesn't come with trojans or whatever in official language packs!
English language pack doesn't have any trojans. Therefore, more incentive for the world to learn English.
Quote: IE7 goes too far with it's attempted protection. Have you noticed it blocks nearly EVERYTHING until you ok it? Not for me. SlikRik wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 15:21 a few months back they had a statistic that FF finally beat out IE in percentage of visitors who used it. Therefore, FF is becoming more and more popular, and millions of people can't all be wrong about FF. The majority of people in medieval ages believed in god, now most probably hate the idea. Most of the population believed the world was flat back then. A lot of people think that 9/11 was planned by the government. Indians believed that nature was pretty much a spirit. People back then thought that we were in the center of the universe. Seriously, that argument is fucked up. Just because the majority of people think that something is better, doesn't automatically make it true. Hell, people probably are downloading FireFox because the FireFox fanboys sucking up to it so much. Quote: EDIT: I see there you use IE7. Quick question, where's the Menu bar... How would I configure my browser settings, or organize my favorites, or open a new window, or view my history. Defaulting the menu bar as hidden... Clever. Bravo Microsoft. What the fuck? It wasn't hidden for me. Quote: It seems to me that you've never even bothered to use FF, and for that reason it's just unfair for you to bash FF, especially over IE. I think if you took the time to get your head out of Microsoft's ass and tried Firefox for even 10 mins you'd just see that you just enjoy it more. I have firefox. I use it when Internet Explorer fails me, and you know what? Everytime IE7 fails, FireFox usually fails also. It looks like you haven't tried using our browser much either, my friend.
If it wasn't for FireFox Windows would still be using Internet Explorer 6. IE7 is a direct consequence of FF being a threat to them, look how many years it took them just to increase security a little and slap on a new skin. FF is aimed to make your browsing experience as easy as possible, while IE is just adding stupid features no one really cares about. Look at the new features in the betas of IE8 and FF3. It isn't about which browser is better as many people seem to think, it's about people hating on Microsoft. Microsoft and IE don't follow web standards, and they don't care; this is the primary reason people hate it. For web developers this is a big problem because they code a page to follow standards set by the W3C how it's supposed to be done. Validate it, test it in multiple browsers and multiple operating systems; it looks great, it works great. Then you come to IE and the design is completely fucked up because Microsoft doesn't like to follow rules. This forces the web developer to create custom coding specific to IE, makes them work longer, and forces companies to pay out more money because of the extra time being put into a site. Simply put, Internet Explorer is a drain and the faster people stop using it, the faster web standards will develop and new technologies will be implemented or integrated into existing systems. Microsoft is slowing progress and a few unique features don't make up for over a decade of ignoring standards.
Originally Blue wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 21:35 SlikRik wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 15:21 a few months back they had a statistic that FF finally beat out IE in percentage of visitors who used it. Therefore, FF is becoming more and more popular, and millions of people can't all be wrong about FF. The majority of people in medieval ages believed in god, now most probably hate the idea. Most of the population believed the world was flat back then. A lot of people think that 9/11 was planned by the government. Indians believed that nature was pretty much a spirit. People back then thought that we were in the center of the universe. Seriously, that argument is fucked up. Just because the majority of people think that something is better, doesn't automatically make it true. Hell, people probably are downloading FireFox because the FireFox fanboys sucking up to it so much. Those points you make there are completely irrelivant to this discussion and don't have any standing whatsoever. You're DEAD wrong when you say most people today hate the idea of God, especially when there are more than 1 billion Catholics in the world todaay. People believed the earth was flat because they based their theory off the only evidence they had which was their observation. Within a short enough distance, yes the earth looks flat. Idiots who believe dumb conspiracy theories think 9/11 was planned by the gov't. Indians regarded nature as holy because that's what they survived on. And again, science based on relative observations alone. I'm sure if you interviewed a group of Firefox users, they'd say they use it cuz they actually prefer it to using another browser (and a large part of that group would probably say over IE), not cuz they saw a buncha other people using it. Originally Blue wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 21:35 Quote: EDIT: I see there you use IE7. Quick question, where's the Menu bar... How would I configure my browser settings, or organize my favorites, or open a new window, or view my history. Defaulting the menu bar as hidden... Clever. Bravo Microsoft. What the fuck? It wasn't hidden for me. When upgrading from IE6 to IE7, or starting IE7 for the first time in Windows, the default appearance for the Menu bar is hidden. Originally Blue wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 21:35 Quote: It seems to me that you've never even bothered to use FF, and for that reason it's just unfair for you to bash FF, especially over IE. I think if you took the time to get your head out of Microsoft's ass and tried Firefox for even 10 mins you'd just see that you just enjoy it more. I have firefox. I use it when Internet Explorer fails me, and you know what? Everytime IE7 fails, FireFox usually fails also. It looks like you haven't tried using our browser much either, my friend. Years of using IE at home and school has definately given me a decent experience of IE's features and performance for me to make one of my best decisions ever to switch to FF. Goztow I have to go with SlikRik. Cheers!
IronWarrior wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 19:48 Hey I used to be a big fan for IE and was very against FireFox and everything. But tired FireFox once and never gone back, I do sometimes use IE, but FireFox rocks. Same for me, I used to work with the IE6 till the end of 2006. I worked with IE since 1999 (before that I used Netscape and Opera of course) and just wanted to give Firefox a chance. It's nice, there are many tweaks and 400+ extensions around. But Firefox was and is buggy when it comes to memory usage. And this isn't fixed until now (I use 20014). If they don't fix it with Firefox 3 final this summer, I will switch to Opera. Back in January 2007, I compared the big three and wrote a topic about it on a computer forum. Unfortunately, I can't link it because it's written in german and barely anyone of you will understand the text. The result was: First place Opera, then Firefox and on third the IE7. Opera clearly wins because it is packed full of features Firefox hasn't by default. You'll have to get many extensions to come to the same level. Opera can deal with the RAM even better than the IE does. I haven't tested Safari yet and I am waiting for FF3, Opera 10 and the IE8 to make the next comparison chart.
SlikRik wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 21:21 EDIT: I see there you use IE7. Quick question, where's the Menu bar... How would I configure my browser settings, or organize my favorites, or open a new window, or view my history. Defaulting the menu bar as hidden... Clever. Bravo Microsoft. (Yes I'm aware that it can be displayed, but to hide it away at first is just... dumb. I don't wanna guess what all the little pictures mean, I just want clear, plain, easy to use words on a menu bar....) Menu bar = Right click on the empty space were your tabs are, and click "Menu bar", Or, to get to the tools menu, Click on the little ">>" button on the far top right hand corner of IE 7 and choose "Tools". History and Favorites, and manage RSS feeds and add favorites = Click on the Star or Star with green plus button on the top left hand corner of IE 7. The menu bar is usually there by default.
I can't believe how people get so geeky about this shit, just use whatever the fuck you want. These browsers aren't made to have millions of online debates over which one is better, they are made for browsing, so pick your favorite and shut the fuck up.
TD wrote on Mon, 12 May 2008 09:51 I can't believe how people get so geeky about this shit, just use whatever the fuck you want. These browsers aren't made to have millions of online debates over which one is better, they are made for browsing, so pick your favorite and shut the fuck up. QFT!
Ryu wrote on Mon, 12 May 2008 03:24 Menu bar = Right click on the empty space were your tabs are, and click "Menu bar", Or, to get to the tools menu, Click on the little ">>" button on the far top right hand corner of IE 7 and choose "Tools". History and Favorites, and manage RSS feeds and add favorites = Click on the Star or Star with green plus button on the top left hand corner of IE 7. The menu bar is usually there by default. Like I said, I don't wanna guess what all the pictures mean. Also, every time I've opened up IE7 for the first time on a computer (there have been several occasions), the menu bar has always been hidden, by default.
SlikRik wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 21:07 Originally Blue wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 21:35 SlikRik wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 15:21 a few months back they had a statistic that FF finally beat out IE in percentage of visitors who used it. Therefore, FF is becoming more and more popular, and millions of people can't all be wrong about FF. The majority of people in medieval ages believed in god, now most probably hate the idea. Most of the population believed the world was flat back then. A lot of people think that 9/11 was planned by the government. Indians believed that nature was pretty much a spirit. People back then thought that we were in the center of the universe. Seriously, that argument is fucked up. Just because the majority of people think that something is better, doesn't automatically make it true. Hell, people probably are downloading FireFox because the FireFox fanboys sucking up to it so much. Those points you make there are completely irrelivant to this discussion and don't have any standing whatsoever. You're DEAD wrong when you say most people today hate the idea of God, especially when there are more than 1 billion Catholics in the world todaay. People believed the earth was flat because they based their theory off the only evidence they had which was their observation. Within a short enough distance, yes the earth looks flat. Idiots who believe dumb conspiracy theories think 9/11 was planned by the gov't. Indians regarded nature as holy because that's what they survived on. And again, science based on relative observations alone. I'm sure if you interviewed a group of Firefox users, they'd say they use it cuz they actually prefer it to using another browser (and a large part of that group would probably say over IE), not cuz they saw a buncha other people using it. SWOOSH! My point must've went RIGHT over your head. My point was, was that just because the majority of people think something, doesn't automatically make it true. The points that you were assuming that I was making were SARCASM, basing them off your logic.
Bob likes IE and Joe likes FF. Frank likes Opera and John likes Safari. Shut the fuck up and move on with your life.
Dave Anderson wrote on Mon, 12 May 2008 22:45 Bob likes IE and Joe likes FF. Frank likes Opera and John likes Safari. Shut the fuck up and move on with your life. You just started a Joe > Bob / Bob > Joe discussion.
Zion Fox wrote on Mon, 12 May 2008 18:30 Joe FTW!!
SlikRik wrote on Mon, 12 May 2008 21:05 Ryu wrote on Mon, 12 May 2008 03:24 Menu bar = Right click on the empty space were your tabs are, and click "Menu bar", Or, to get to the tools menu, Click on the little ">>" button on the far top right hand corner of IE 7 and choose "Tools". History and Favorites, and manage RSS feeds and add favorites = Click on the Star or Star with green plus button on the top left hand corner of IE 7. The menu bar is usually there by default. Like I said, I don't wanna guess what all the pictures mean. Also, every time I've opened up IE7 for the first time on a computer (there have been several occasions), the menu bar has always been hidden, by default. If you like your browser being cluster fucked with menu bars and what not, go for it.
Sir Kane wrote on Sun, 11 May 2008 23:31 IE at least didn't/doesn't come with trojans or whatever in official language packs! Oh yes, nice statement because the vietnames localized version accidently came out with malicious code... http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/145617/mozilla_firefox_plugin_ship ped_with_malicious_code.html
I must admit, the only reason I really use Firefox is because of the themes and addons. D: That, and IE's security settings annoy the hell out of me, especially the "blah blah tried to download software to your computer", where in Firefox you can just press OK or cancel, but in IE you have to reload the entire page. If a page doesn't load in one or the other, I just use the IE tab extension to embed IE into Firefox!
Get IE! I use IE 6 and will not be changing any time soon. I hate tabbed browsing so much it is shocking. Seperate browser windows 4 lyfe. Also I've never gotten spyware or malware through IE. So add me to that list. I have definately had more problems in the times I have tried to use Firefox than I've ever had with IE. Every few releases I retry Firefox so I can keep up with the slander. Anyhow the stupid browser wars come down to this: You won't change people's opinions. Even if you know IE is better or you know Firefox is better stop wasting time and energy arguing about it. Unless I have some hallelueah Holy Grail type of experience with Firefox I would never prefer it over IE 6. You are not going to give me that experience with your HUR DUR TABS and your LOLZ IE SUX SPYWAREOJK SECURTIYU FUC U M@$$$$$!!!! The topic of this post though does bother me quite a bit. I hate getting bombarded on EVERY fucking website about how "You shouldn't use your browser of choice, you should use Firefox! It is better because we say so! I'm gonna bother you on EVERY page till you switch from mean ol IE. Come on, EVERYBODYS DOING IT. What's wrong with you? Are you stupid? I said switch to Firefox. Don't make me deny you access. Here I'll block content with this annoying shit telling me about TABS!" GOD DAMN TABS! Sorry that this might be a little nonsensical or over the top but I really hate tabs and being pestered to switch to Firefox.
Just curious, what makes you stick with IE6 instead of upgrading to IE7?
Doitle wrote on Tue, 20 May 2008 09:26 I hate tabbed browsing so much it is shocking. Doitle wrote on Tue, 20 May 2008 09:26 TABS!" GOD DAMN TABS! Answer your question, Clown?
How can someone hate tabbed browsing? It gets rid of the cluster fuck caused by too many damn browser windows. This isn't even a "browser of choice" issue, either. IE7, Opera, Safari, Firefox, etc... all have tabbed browsing. Willfully choosing a browser without tabs seems foolhardy, in my opinion. Yes, to each their own. Still, I, and seemingly most people, tend to find tabbed browsing to be a god send. Heaven forbid sites actually promote what they like. You're not getting pissed off because you hate seeing sites trying to tell you to get the browser they like better. You're just getting pissed off because they're promoting a browser you don't like. It'd be like me getting annoyed because a site continually promotes the Democrat Party. I'd hate to see that everywhere I go, too. However, I know if I were to see advertisements for the Libertarian Party everywhere on a site, I'd be more proud than appalled. Unless, of course, those ads and suggestions are done via pop-ups. Then I universally hate them. However, I can see your point in blocking the site telling you to get a different browser. That just seems a bit much, and would be frustrating.
Tabbed browsing is such a great addition, and Firefox handles them slightly better than IE7 does.
I use Firefox myself. Why? Because I like it. I like the addons system, and I like the general layout. Does that make it better than <insert other browser here>? Maybe, maybe not. I don't really care. I just know that I am happy with Firefox, it suits my browsing style, and that's all that really matters to me.
Quote: It gets rid of the cluster fuck caused by too many damn browser windows. What "cluster fuck"? Windows give you versatility you just can't get with tabs. Literally impossible. You can't alt-tab out of an application into a tab, only a window. You need to then switch tabs to go to your website. I find that really annoying and counter-productive. When I am in TF2 I can alt-tab directly to the person who is talking to me on AIM. (Again non tabbed) Or I can directly alt-tab out of any game to check my e-mail, or refresh a thread. I completely fail to see how any productivity is gained with tabs. Even if you say you gain taskbar space, as soon as the taskbar fills up IE collapses into a single task bar instance that you can click on to select a window like your tabs allow. Quote: Willfully choosing a browser without tabs seems foolhardy, in my opinion. What about for people who... DONT LIKE TABS? Quote: Yes, to each their own. Still, I, and seemingly most people, tend to find tabbed browsing to be a god send. So because you like tabs, I should? You say "to each their own" but the still shoots that right out of the water. Quote: Heaven forbid sites actually promote what they like. You're not getting pissed off because you hate seeing sites trying to tell you to get the browser they like better. You're just getting pissed off because they're promoting a browser you don't like. It'd be like me getting annoyed because a site continually promotes the Democrat Party. I'd hate to see that everywhere I go, too. However, I know if I were to see advertisements for the Libertarian Party everywhere on a site, I'd be more proud than appalled. Unless, of course, those ads and suggestions are done via pop-ups. Then I universally hate them. No I am getting pissed off because every site on earth feels it needs to push Firefox on me. I know it is out there, every so often I give it another try thinking maybe this time it will click but it never does. I don't need to be pestered on every freaking site about it. You probably don't realize how often it happens since you use firefox, use IE for a day and just watch how many of those little "helpful reminders" you see. There is a difference between a little "I like Firefox *thumbs up*" badge that someone puts on their site which literally is promoting what they like, and the kind of Jehovah's Witness style bothering that goes on. I forgot too there is one feature that will keep me from ever getting Vista and also keep me from using Firefox as my main browser. Integration. I use the fact that I can go to the top of a youtube window and type My Computer and be at My Computer countless times a day. Likewise I can be looking in my /b/ folder and then just come right here to Renegade Forums without having to open or touch anything else.
Doitle What "cluster fuck"? Windows give you versatility you just can't get with tabs. Literally impossible. You can't alt-tab out of an application into a tab, only a window. You need to then switch tabs to go to your website. I find that really annoying and counter-productive. When I am in TF2 I can alt-tab directly to the person who is talking to me on AIM. (Again non tabbed) Or I can directly alt-tab out of any game to check my e-mail, or refresh a thread. I completely fail to see how any productivity is gained with tabs. Even if you say you gain taskbar space, as soon as the taskbar fills up IE collapses into a single task bar instance that you can click on to select a window like your tabs allow. How is it easier to alt-tab out of an application and having to keep going until you find the right window when you can just alt-tab to Firefox/Opera/Safari/IE7 and then just choose with your mouse what tab you want. Honestly, I find that to be more efficient. I still find it to be more difficult and time consuming to have to click on the IE window grouping and then choose the right window than just quickly choosing my Firefox window and choosing the right tab. Doitle What about for people who... DONT LIKE TABS? I can still find it foolhardy to not like tabs. Doitle So because you like tabs, I should? You say "to each their own" but the still shoots that right out of the water. Or you could just read it as intended. I just meant that while I acknowledge people like different things, it seems that a vast majority like tabs better, not that the mainstream is always right. Doitle No I am getting pissed off because every site on earth feels it needs to push Firefox on me. I know it is out there, every so often I give it another try thinking maybe this time it will click but it never does. I don't need to be pestered on every freaking site about it. You probably don't realize how often it happens since you use firefox, use IE for a day and just watch how many of those little "helpful reminders" you see. There is a difference between a little "I like Firefox *thumbs up*" badge that someone puts on their site which literally is promoting what they like, and the kind of Jehovah's Witness style bothering that goes on. Perhaps there are more sites that do that than I realize because I use Firefox. I figured those sites were a very small minority, as I've always found it to be a standard that you designed your sites to work in ALL browsers. Doitle I forgot too there is one feature that will keep me from ever getting Vista and also keep me from using Firefox as my main browser. Integration. I use the fact that I can go to the top of a youtube window and type My Computer and be at My Computer countless times a day. Likewise I can be looking in my /b/ folder and then just come right here to Renegade Forums without having to open or touch anything else. I've never done that, even with IE. Even if I did, I don't think I'd use it enough to where that using IE would be overall more productive.
Well I find Firefox better because of its ease of use and full out customability. I still do use IE7 somewhat often at home and in school, although I use Firefox way more. The problem I see with IE7 is that I get lost in its interface. Also its Tabbed browsing system has a small, tiny difference that annoys me. It doesn't have the "X" close button on tabs that aren't open. So you have to switch to the tab before you click to close it. Sure it is little... but it is still annoying. Plus all the themes, gadgets, and tools you can easily get, install, and use for firefox are just icing on the cake. However, that Website looks like it was made by a moron. None of those ideas either A) Make Firefox better than IE7 or B) Explain why IE7 doesn't work with the site.. EDIT: Also, I didn't like Tabs either and I used to avoid using them. But I somehow managed to convert into using them. It is much easier than opening new windows and it saves space in your task bar. Like if you are on a website and click to open a page, but don't want to leave the page you are on, just open the link in a new tab (middle click) and then close it when you are done. Anyway, my point is ignorance isn't an excuse for saying you don't like something. cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 20 May 2008 14:59 Doitle I forgot too there is one feature that will keep me from ever getting Vista and also keep me from using Firefox as my main browser. Integration. I use the fact that I can go to the top of a youtube window and type My Computer and be at My Computer countless times a day. Likewise I can be looking in my /b/ folder and then just come right here to Renegade Forums without having to open or touch anything else. I've never done that, even with IE. Even if I did, I don't think I'd use it enough to where that using IE would be overall more productive. I knew that existed, but I never used it. You should know that that ISN'T a "feature" it is actually a glitch in IE. And in fact there is a very good reason for why in IE7 the window doesn't automatically change to whatever location you went to anymore. Lets say you were using IE and someone hacked your browser. All they would have to do is use that function to go onto your computer's files and read what you have. They could steal any information from you and you wouldn't be able to do a thing other than shutting down your computer (and I'm not even sure that works) Actually, though in IE7, they did fix this. They changed it so that Internet Explorer no longer used the Windows Explorer interface like IE6 did. They made it so that if you were to type in "My Computer" in the URL bar, the "My Computer" window would pop up, but in a separate window using the Windows Explorer interface, thus protecting you against said hacker attacks. It could be handy, but since I have Object Dock, all I do is drag my mouse to the top of the screen and click and I am in my computer. Or if I didn't feel like doing that, I just press a button on my keyboard. It is much easier than typing in "My Computer" into a URL.
Well that is one bug that I am happy to have. I've never been attacked through it and I use it so much.
I like firefox way more. Especially the possiblity for extensions and therefore the ability for useful web developement tools (DOM inspector/Live HTTP headers). I sometimes like tabbed browsing. It sorts the tabs together in one app and I can rearrange them so that I can easily read through them if I need a few pages for a longer period of time. Sometimes I want to have multiple windows as well, but this is perfectly possible as well. It's a useless argument to say you don't like firefox because of that, since you can simply avoid it. It's a feature, you don't have to use it if you don't want to. Separate windows work just as good as they do in IE6. The entire idea of tabs rather than separate windows is a bit silly though. To me it means that the window list in Windows just isn't optimal. Tabs arrange multiple websites better for me than windows do, because I can easily rearrange them and find them while using another page. About needing two clicks to close a tab: just middle mouse click and they will be closed. No more than one click needed. About integration: what's so good about it? It's just as easy to hit windows key + r and then type c: to get to your c drive or firefox to start firefox to browse (or even the actual page URL). I don't see how typing in your address bar is any easier. I support firefox as well to force microsoft to be more W3C standards compliant. Better standards compliance means less work for web developers to get their sites to display correctly in various browsers, which is imo a very important thing. IE7 seems to be a good step into that direction and offers most of what I need (except for the extensions/web dev tools) but it doesn't give me anything that I don't already have with firefox. About that site, yes it's stupid to focus on only one browser. And I hate it to see any IE only or FF only sites (unless it's for FF extensions or IE only stuff or something, then it is at best "acceptable"). It just shows that the webmaster did not really care much about his site being viewed, in which case I usually don't really care about viewing it in return.
Doitle wrote on Wed, 21 May 2008 00:19 Well that is one bug that I am happy to have. I've never been attacked through it and I use it so much. That's like saying "Oh, I don't need an antistatic wrist-strap; I've fixed my computer loads of times and I've never used one" - You can never guarantee it'll never happen. I know someone who didn't use an anti-virus on the basis that they never visited any dubious websites - then one day they found out they had a rootkit that had sent their credit card details off to some randomer. I'd try and think of a real-world application like "Who cares if my house is made of asbestos, I'm not dead yet", but I've only just woken up and I haven't had my Frosties yet.
Oh, and Firefox 3 Download Day: http://www.spreadfirefox.com/en-US/worldrecord/
@Doitle: if you want the versitility of IE6 with the coolness of Firefox, get IE7.
Doitle wrote on Tue, 20 May 2008 19:07 You can't alt-tab out of an application into a tab, only a window. You alt-tab to the browser then ctrl-tab to the tab.
That isn't alt-tabbing to a browser tab.
Jonty wrote on Sat, 24 May 2008 09:17 That's like saying "Oh, I don't need an antistatic wrist-strap; I've fixed my computer loads of times and I've never used one" I have to admit I am guilty of that one Although in theory as long as you keep part of your body in contact with the metal of the case you *should* be OK. Random off topic comment for the day ^^
Jonty wrote on Sat, 24 May 2008 09:17 Doitle wrote on Wed, 21 May 2008 00:19 Well that is one bug that I am happy to have. I've never been attacked through it and I use it so much. That's like saying "Oh, I don't need an antistatic wrist-strap; I've fixed my computer loads of times and I've never used one" - You can never guarantee it'll never happen. I know someone who didn't use an anti-virus on the basis that they never visited any dubious websites - then one day they found out they had a rootkit that had sent their credit card details off to some randomer. I'd try and think of a real-world application like "Who cares if my house is made of asbestos, I'm not dead yet", but I've only just woken up and I haven't had my Frosties yet. mmhm, Frosties, good choice in cereal.
I kinda got sick of Frosted Flakes when I was younger. Now I just have Vector in the morning.
nikki6ixx wrote on Fri, 30 May 2008 00:09 I kinda got sick of Frosted Flakes when I was younger. Now I just have Vector in the morning. You should try Coco-pops, sexy as hell.