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Sbh`s on no-base map and how to get rid of them
on most servers who make you start with 350 credits get a Humm-vee and drive around the base shooting at normal sbh hotspots and then when i have enough credits i go and do a suicidle rush with an engineer but anyway then i get and APC and do exactly the same
Re: Sbh`s on no-base map and how to get rid of them
That's the most useless tactic, ever. Mere mining Proxy C4s is better than that.
he told you to stay out... anyway nice tactic... I will try it :/
sadukar that is also a good tactic but the most important place to mine the entrance to the buildings
I'll give you an advice: Stop posting in this section.
Surth wrote on Wed, 13 February 2008 06:46 Buy a tank and destroy the base. That's actually a better one that yours...Killing their base prevents them from buying SBHs in the first place.
In the ideal world! Example map walls. Mine tunnel, not in centre but both edges. Mine a thin line at entrance. Buy apc. Watch for mines tripping, then run the sbh over, do this all game if you want. Alternatavly If you have good team and nod is all SBH n00bs, there will be less tank resistance on field. In that case, fill your apc up with enginners and take out the hand.
Have i already noticed that you can have every vehicle except for the mammoth before the enemy has even money for a sbh nuke?
Before the mammoth is even debatable. It seems like a lot of War factories in levels will be closer to the tib feild than the strip so the gdi harvester will bring back credits before the nod harvester does.
kannies wrote on Wed, 13 February 2008 05:53 In the ideal world! Example map walls. Mine tunnel, not in centre but both edges. Mine a thin line at entrance. Buy apc. Watch for mines tripping, then run the sbh over, do this all game if you want. Alternatavly If you have good team and nod is all SBH n00bs, there will be less tank resistance on field. In that case, fill your apc up with enginners and take out the hand. No. Shut up. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
It's quite obvious that it also depends what kind of server you're playing on: 14 players vs 50 players will be played differently time limit vs marathon differently ...
No matter what server it is, you never, ever, ever, ever mine the tunnel (Except field), and you never, ever, ever, ever mine the front entrance.
Well I have tried most things and this tends to be most effective for keeping sbh out of base, though not the wall jumpers. You could always mine buildings and ramps but u will get the pests hanging around stealing tanks that way. Note the no matter how good or where u mine, the experienced SBH's will ALWAYS find a way in. These tactics are just mitigating that risk
topcap wrote on Wed, 13 February 2008 06:20 I dont see you posting any good advice That is because it has already been posted. Anyway I have seen you ingame doing this and I was an SBH and I just walked right past you. You do a horrible job, anyway I love when you use the APC or hummer and you spray bullets around to detect stanks. Then when you hit one you go after them and then they are like "OMG YOU HAVE STEALTH HACKS"
kannies wrote on Thu, 14 February 2008 01:01 Well I have tried most things and this tends to be most effective for keeping sbh out of base, though not the wall jumpers. You could always mine buildings and ramps but u will get the pests hanging around stealing tanks that way. Note the no matter how good or where u mine, the experienced SBH's will ALWAYS find a way in. These tactics are just mitigating that risk Wrong. You mine the doors, and they can't get in. Everyone always talks about SBH nukers, but SBH with C4 are far more lethal, since you don't get a huge server-wide warning. On most maps. I count on SBH getting into the base, so long as they stay out of the buildings. To experienced players, nukes are free points. And if "pests hanging around stealing tanks" are a problem for you, perhaps you should go play Multiplayer Practice, where you don't have to worry about "problems" like that.
kannies wrote on Thu, 14 February 2008 03:01 mitigating That is a pretty big word for a 8 year old. Anway that is why you lock you vechs or you use !vkcik
I am not sure why exactly people are being an ass to kannies.
Where is the question in this post?
Starbuzz wrote on Thu, 14 February 2008 18:01 I am not sure why exactly people are being an ass to kannies. Probably cuz they think i'm nub cuz I havent got many posts so my opinions are not valid. The question was how to keep the pests out of the base. Mining the doors, yes stops c4's rushes, but the pests will be hanging around attempting to cause trouble (stealing tanks and planting nukes). Mining the entraces and guarding with apc has a chance of preventing c4 rushes. At the end of the day it depends what strategy u wanna use. Dovers opinion is very much valid and my idea is also valid. Neither is right or wrong.
Dover wrote on Thu, 14 February 2008 11:23 kannies wrote on Thu, 14 February 2008 01:01 Well I have tried most things and this tends to be most effective for keeping sbh out of base, though not the wall jumpers. You could always mine buildings and ramps but u will get the pests hanging around stealing tanks that way. Note the no matter how good or where u mine, the experienced SBH's will ALWAYS find a way in. These tactics are just mitigating that risk Wrong. You mine the doors, and they can't get in. Everyone always talks about SBH nukers, but SBH with C4 are far more lethal, since you don't get a huge server-wide warning. On most maps. I count on SBH getting into the base, so long as they stay out of the buildings. To experienced players, nukes are free points. And if "pests hanging around stealing tanks" are a problem for you, perhaps you should go play Multiplayer Practice, where you don't have to worry about "problems" like that. Thats incredibly retarded. Lets use Walls for an example. You don't mine the front, right? I'm gonna go get the PP, and they can't do jack shit about it. Why? On the top of the PP, you'll see sand bags, you can walk ever so slightly behind them, place a nuke, jump down, and watch. Its EXTREMELY hard to walk around to get to it, and no more than 2 hotwires can be repairing it at a given time due to where it is. This gives me ample time to fire my lovely laser rifle at them, make them run in a sweat, and oh, my favorite part is, 75% of the people on the team are too stupid to even check there, thus taking off about 20 seconds at the least. So that gives us roughly, 30 seconds? Thats 30 seconds to get a hotwire, run over, find my nuke, then have to deal with my SBH. I'm not even talking a 5 person game here, i'm talking Jelly-Server 48 player game kind of stuff. I do this EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. they don't mine, and it ALWAYS works. I have yet to fail at this. And if you want to say ''Well okay, I'll just mine the ramp leading up to it''. Cool. Meanwhile, I'll go find another structure that you couldn't mine because you mined that, and do roughly the same thing
Lol, okay MWright... MWright967 wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 01:34 You don't mine the front, right? I'm gonna go get the PP, and they can't do jack shit about it. Why? On the top of the PP, you'll see sand bags, you can walk ever so slightly behind them, place a nuke, jump down, and watch. Its EXTREMELY hard to walk around to get to it, and no more than 2 hotwires can be repairing it at a given time due to where it is. This gives me ample time to fire my lovely laser rifle at them, make them run in a sweat, and oh, my favorite part is, 75% of the people on the team are too stupid to even check there, thus taking off about 20 seconds at the least. So that gives us roughly, 30 seconds? Thats 30 seconds to get a hotwire, run over, find my nuke, then have to deal with my SBH. Since you have access to the roof, I'll assume it's walls_flying. Since it's walls_flying, I'll assume there's at least one orca within 10 seconds of the base (There are usually several). Since there's an orca near the base, nukes are found near-instantly, and SBH can't shoot or they get chaingun rounds through their shiny face. Oh, and that spot your talking about is disarmable from the ground. No need to try to squeeze around on the roof. MWright967 wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 01:34 I'm not even talking a 5 person game here, i'm talking Jelly-Server 48 player game kind of stuff. I do this EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. they don't mine, and it ALWAYS works. I have yet to fail at this. Either you're lying about never failing (Which, given your record, is more than likely), or you're playing against children with down syndrome. MWright967 wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 01:34 And if you want to say ''Well okay, I'll just mine the ramp leading up to it''. Cool. Meanwhile, I'll go find another structure that you couldn't mine because you mined that, and do roughly the same thing 30 mines total 8 mines on the barracks (4 per door) 5 on the WF's back door (Front door gets so much traffic, mines are unnessessary). 8 on the PP (4 per door) 8 on the ref (4 per door) 1 on the WF ramp (For warning purposes) And lets look at the alternative. Mining the front entrance? Nod would be laughing their faces off every time they do an APC rush and watch our entire minefield go off and do about 100 damage to a vech. Then NOTHING is mined. Nukes aren't scary. Especially not on walls flying. I'm not afraid of your shiny man with his Nuclear strike beacon. It just means free points for me, and the chance to rub it in when I disarm it. SBH with C4? That's scary. Three of them can level half the base within seconds (Literally. Three seconds or so), and I'm given no warning in advance. Not only that, but vechs can't give support in the disarming effort.
I sometimes mine the tunnels on walls etc. but you should always have an humm-vee or APC or mobius just scanning. Becuase i have killed about 35 SBH`s altogether just by scanning on no-base defense map
Dover wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 04:55 Lol, okay MWright... MWright967 wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 01:34 You don't mine the front, right? I'm gonna go get the PP, and they can't do jack shit about it. Why? On the top of the PP, you'll see sand bags, you can walk ever so slightly behind them, place a nuke, jump down, and watch. Its EXTREMELY hard to walk around to get to it, and no more than 2 hotwires can be repairing it at a given time due to where it is. This gives me ample time to fire my lovely laser rifle at them, make them run in a sweat, and oh, my favorite part is, 75% of the people on the team are too stupid to even check there, thus taking off about 20 seconds at the least. So that gives us roughly, 30 seconds? Thats 30 seconds to get a hotwire, run over, find my nuke, then have to deal with my SBH. 1. Since you have access to the roof, I'll assume it's walls_flying. Since it's walls_flying, I'll assume there's at least one orca within 10 seconds of the base (There are usually several). Since there's an orca near the base, nukes are found near-instantly, and SBH can't shoot or they get chaingun rounds through their shiny face. Oh, and that spot your talking about is disarmable from the ground. No need to try to squeeze around on the roof. MWright967 wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 01:34 I'm not even talking a 5 person game here, i'm talking Jelly-Server 48 player game kind of stuff. I do this EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. they don't mine, and it ALWAYS works. I have yet to fail at this. 2. Either you're lying about never failing (Which, given your record, is more than likely), or you're playing against children with down syndrome. MWright967 wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 01:34 And if you want to say ''Well okay, I'll just mine the ramp leading up to it''. Cool. Meanwhile, I'll go find another structure that you couldn't mine because you mined that, and do roughly the same thing 30 mines total 8 mines on the barracks (4 per door) 5 on the WF's back door (Front door gets so much traffic, mines are unnessessary). 8 on the PP (4 per door) 8 on the ref (4 per door) 1 on the WF ramp (For warning purposes) 3. And lets look at the alternative. Mining the front entrance? Nod would be laughing their faces off every time they do an APC rush and watch our entire minefield go off and do about 100 damage to a vech. Then NOTHING is mined. 4. Nukes aren't scary. Especially not on walls flying. I'm not afraid of your shiny man with his Nuclear strike beacon. It just means free points for me, and the chance to rub it in when I disarm it. SBH with C4? That's scary. Three of them can level half the base within seconds (Literally. Three seconds or so), and I'm given no warning in advance. Not only that, but vechs can't give support in the disarming effort. 1. No. It isn't repairable from the ground. Secondly, I think you forget something: They don't know where I AM. So the only time in which the orca will be able to shoot me, is when and IF the hotwires even find my nuke, and lets not forget, timed C4 works wonder, especially in such a tight little area as behind that sand bag. And hey, what if they have no WF? What if they have no money and can't buy an orca? Or what if all the useable orcas are on the field and dont make it back in time? 2. Given my record? Sorry Dover, but I never recall having ever played with you, nor do I believe that you know anything of my uhhhh, ''record'' so to speak, considering I don't have one. I'm on the top 20 in some servers, and in others I'm that ''noob'' who comes in with a rank of 6121 out of 8000. I play on multiple servers and, considering I have never seen you in game (to my knowledge or memory) I highly doubt you are one for the judging. Believe me if you like, disbelieve me if you like. It doesn't really change fact, now does it? Point being, I use this strategy EVERY time I play Nod on Walls. And I have yet to fail. If you don't want to believe that, I really couldn't care less, considering I do have people who can vouch for my legitimacy. 3. Right. Because we all know how many APC's on a 25-50 player wall's game even make it past the med's and mammy's camping outside. Oh but wait, since you have such 1337 APC skills, you can just demine all the doors for your little SBH assistance to go in, instead of mining the tunnel and allowing them to come in at will and spawn kill, place nukes on the sides of the builing (AKA, that little L-Shaped corner behind the WF).I don't disagree with the part of ''Mining the ramps for detection purposes'', but mining buildings? Wow. Don't be ignorant. 4. Whoaz, nukes aren't scary? Wow I never knew that. Thanks for telling me Dover. Hey, a small hard to see beacon which can be placed in odd areas out of the reach of large numbers of players making it easy for the placer to pick them off at will. What could be good about that, right? I mean hey, with all that awesome C4 those SBH's have, they can run in the building. But wait Dover- you mined the buildings instead of the front, so they can't get in, right? Dang. Oh and gosh, I forgot, on large maps every building will usually have at least 1 person in it who will just alert his/her team mates or demine it themselves . Awww...Hopes raised for no reason... My life is over *Puts gun to head. Bang.*
All right. You, sir, are a noob, you dont know a fucking clue about renegade so just dont post in this section. SBHs are useless 99% of the time.
Surth wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 10:53 All right. You, sir, are a noob, you dont know a fucking clue about renegade so just dont post in this section. SBHs are useless 99% of the time. I lol'ed. Angry morons who call others noobs and then don't give a reason are funny to me.
Quote: . No. It isn't repairable from the ground yes it freaking is... at least try it before you make dumb replies
A couple of years ago I used 'My' Method mostly which worked. Dont get me wrong, Dovers phylosophy is good and it works, each has its pros and cons. Its been a while but when I do play on these servers ie; n00bstories I see Dover on sometimes, I ussualy play offesivly and leave mining to others.
Surth wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 10:53 All right. You, sir, are a noob, you dont know a fucking clue about renegade so just dont post in this section. SBHs are useless 99% of the time. NO U. I've won lotsa games thanks to SBH's+Nukes/C4's. They're handy as hell. That was a completely ignorant statement to make, and I'm sure there's many people who'll agree with me that SBH's are incredibly useful. Unless you think you're the friggin predator, you should be able to be of SOME use. Also, the whole SBH-nuke-beacon thing works pretty well, but it's best if there's several SBH's. One nuke CAN be disarmed if it's found quickly. But 2 or more? Chances are very likely that the building's gonna die. If not, MANY people will stop what they're doing and grab a hotwire- Allowing any Nod tanks to move in and attack while they're busy with the SBH's/nukes.
Cabal, you must understand that Surth is a CW player...and until recently, I did not respect him for that. He has since gained a lot of respect from me lately as I understand what he was saying all along. Heck, I play more like how a CW player would play now even in Public servers...concentrating on heavy vehicles and providing repair support to my team's vehicles: the ultimate goal to kill the enemy base. Why waste time with buying the expensive SBH+Beacon? It works in a loose unchallenging environment like a Public server and therefore, CANNOT be accepted as a solid strategy that can be applied in all situations.
tbh, even if you dont have a vehicle or rep vehicles, you can still better buy a raveshaw or a sakura to actually DO SOME DAMAGE, but sbhs just tend to be useless.
Surth wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 13:55 tbh, even if you dont have a vehicle or rep vehicles, you can still better buy a raveshaw or a sakura to actually DO SOME DAMAGE, but sbhs just tend to be useless. Unless you count stealing enemy vehicles...but how many people leave vehicles empty in CW anyway? But one good thing is sneaking up on that annoying MRLS hitting your base if your team mates can't do anything.
Or, you can just mine up the buildings as per normal, and let the SBH's prance around in the GDI base, being totally useless; instead of taking up a vehicle slot. Hell, it's probably best just to let those SBH's live, because they WILL hang around doing nothing until they die. It's not often that a pack of SBH's do much damage because there is always one goof who screws it up for the rest of them.
I didn't say it's the best tactic for every situation, either. But saying it's 99% useless is false. That's mainly what my point was.
Im pretty sure it is useless in 99%. I think the only time i ever used a sbh was on islands when we lost airstrip and we quickly needed to regain advantage by destroying one of their buildings. You see, if you wanna win, you need to make the most out of your money, and 99% of the time your 400 are better spent for a technician or for a tank...
I play this game FOR SBH. SBH is one of the best characters in the game for god's sake. SBH sniper, SBH c4'er, SBH volter.......SBH's are the entire game next to deadeye's and grenadiers for me. I know multiple people feel the same as well. Saying is 99% useless is just ignant'
MWright967 wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 08:38 Dover wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 04:55 Lol, okay MWright... MWright967 wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 01:34 You don't mine the front, right? I'm gonna go get the PP, and they can't do jack shit about it. Why? On the top of the PP, you'll see sand bags, you can walk ever so slightly behind them, place a nuke, jump down, and watch. Its EXTREMELY hard to walk around to get to it, and no more than 2 hotwires can be repairing it at a given time due to where it is. This gives me ample time to fire my lovely laser rifle at them, make them run in a sweat, and oh, my favorite part is, 75% of the people on the team are too stupid to even check there, thus taking off about 20 seconds at the least. So that gives us roughly, 30 seconds? Thats 30 seconds to get a hotwire, run over, find my nuke, then have to deal with my SBH. 1. Since you have access to the roof, I'll assume it's walls_flying. Since it's walls_flying, I'll assume there's at least one orca within 10 seconds of the base (There are usually several). Since there's an orca near the base, nukes are found near-instantly, and SBH can't shoot or they get chaingun rounds through their shiny face. Oh, and that spot your talking about is disarmable from the ground. No need to try to squeeze around on the roof. 1. No. It isn't repairable from the ground. Secondly, I think you forget something: They don't know where I AM. So the only time in which the orca will be able to shoot me, is when and IF the hotwires even find my nuke, and lets not forget, timed C4 works wonder, especially in such a tight little area as behind that sand bag. And hey, what if they have no WF? What if they have no money and can't buy an orca? Or what if all the useable orcas are on the field and dont make it back in time? Actually, it can be repaired from the ground. (FYI, I put friendly fire on.) Edit: SBH with alternate weapons can only be found in servers with normal weapon drops enabled or SSGM weapon drops (Jelly 1 AOW, for instance, doesn't have either). Otherwise, they're only good for nuking buildings, killing tanks (haha), and C4ing snipers who stand still for too long.
Touche' my friend, touche'. However, I wasn't refering to that sandbag, but the one on the right side XP.
MWright967 wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 18:51 Touche' my friend, touche'. However, I wasn't refering to that sandbag, but the one on the right side XP. Same story still on the right side- You CAN repair it, though I'd have to say it's pretty hard to catch unless you have a nuke beacon advantage skin, or unless the power plant is the only building left. Although, I think that MW was referring to the place behind those sandbags, not in front. It takes a few extra seconds to get to it, and those extra few seconds are fairly crucial to the survival of the nuke. And as for an orca flying around to detect it... You do realize that unless there are no tanks atall in the field trying to attack the GDI base, an orca will more than likely be busy trying to fend off Nod attacks. SBH's are good on their own, but best if used in combination with teamates. Get a few SBH's (Repeat- A FEW. Not the whole fucking team.), sneak into the base, and while that's happening, have your Nod buddies be attacking the GDI base. Many people on the GDI team will be too preoccupied fending off the Nod attack to handle some SBH's. Even if there's a few GDI people scanning the base for that SBH, then congrats- The SBH served a purpose. Why? Well, those few people are busy trying to search for said SBH's to be on the frontlines helping their allies. Really, unless there's the same amount of people on GDI trying to take out the SBH's as their are the SBH's themselves, you'll have some form of advantage. The only time this doesn't work is if the numbers are uneven... Which, in a clanwar, I would doubt would happen very often. I must admit that an SBH's usefulness is lowered quite a bit in an orginized clan war, but it's not "99% useless" as you say. As I said before, even if there are no SBH's, chances are GDI will fear them being in their base, causing them to be uneasy and have atleast a few people scanning the base. That's a few less people not defending. However, the only way you can actually make this work, is by actually using SBH's once in awhile.. Therefore, if you never use them, the GDI side will catch on to this, and will have more people defending Nod assaults. And also, if there's two people scanning for 2 SBH's, unless they're not hotwires, chances are the SBH's can rape the hotwires. They have laser rifles, hotwires only have proxy C4's... And if they throw some proxy's down, this'll remove existing proxy's , which helps, too. Same story with timed C4's. Chances are they're gonna know this, and won't use them. So they'll use pistols instead. Unless the SBH's suck SERIOUS amounts of cock, they should be able to kill the hotwires with ease. Now, if they ARE infact offensive units, unless it's a unit below 400, they just wasted money trying to kill a 400 credit unit. You said those "400 credits could be used for much better purposes for Nod", right? Same story for GDI, then. Let use compare the SBH to units that cost 400 and below (Assuming both players are of or around equal skill level). GDI soldier vs SBH: The laser rifle is a fairly more powerful version of the GDI auto rifle. It does 3 more damage, and though it has half the rate of fire (5 compared to 10) of the auto rifle, it not only has instant hit (400 velocity in Renegade is instant, compared to 350 of the GDI auto rifle), but it also has burn damage. I think burn damage is an extra 10 damage added on. And also, a headshot does 50 damage... So assuming you get lots of headshots (Which is easier thanks to the instant hit part), you're doing 50 damage each. The GDI soldier only has 100 health and 100 armor, so 4 of those, and he's dead. Wheras a headshot with his rifle does 35 damage. SBH has 200 health and 100 armor, so it would take quite a few more headshots to kill the SBH. GDI Grenadier vs SBH: Grenades are hard to aim with, especially when in a direct battle. An SBH should have little to no trouble killing a grenadier. GDI Shotgun trooper vs SBH: The shotgun trooper is only good close range, so unless you're in a really tight area (Doubtful, since the area we're talking about isn't that hard to escape from and get on open land), the SBH only has to get within a certain range to rape the shotgunner. GDI Engineer vs SBH: A worse version of the hotwire, and we've already discussed that an SBH should be able to kill a hotwire. GDI Officer vs SBH: A better version of the GDI soldier, though the chaingun does 5 damage per bullet instead of 7. Same ROF too. Though, the officer might still be somewhat of a challenge to the SBH, but the SBH SHOULD be able to take care of him. Especially since the SBH still has 50 more health than the officer. GDI Rocket Soldier Officer vs SBH: Rocket Soldier Officers are known to be just plain terrible. Slow ROF, and even slower missiles make them a pretty bad choice vs like... Anything. Especially an automatic weapon user like the SBH. Sydney vs SBH: Sydney's not too great- The ROF of the tiberium auto rifle is the same as the SBH's, but the damage is 2 less. This is assuming the projectile actually hits- With a velocity of 100, it's doubtful that the Sydney will get many hits. Though, the tiberium DOT (Damage over time) is pretty good if it does hit, and the explosion has a slight bit of splash radius. It's also pretty good for making a smokescreen I guess, to hamper the SBH's aim. The SBH should still be able to take out the Sydney, though it may be somewhat of a threat if used very well. Gunner vs SBH: Gunner's actually not too bad thanks to his faster and more damaging rockets. He MIGHT pose a threat to the SBH, though the fact that he's a pretty big target makes him easier to kill. The SBH should be able to steer clear of direct hits with the rocket, though it IS harder to avoid the splash radius. I've not encountered too many Gunners ingame so I can't say. He also costs the same as the SBH, so unless there's an existing gunner on the field (Doubtful as their usefulness is still fairly limited), they just wasted as much money as the Nod guys did. That's about it. The only things that might pose a threat to the Nod SBH's are the units that cost money. And for GDI, their tanks cost MORE than Nod's tanks. And, if they switch to those characters from whoever they were previously, they just wasted their money on attacking an SBH, and also wasted their time which could have been used defending the base or helping out in the field. Even better if you placed the nuke and they switch to a Hotwire from whoever they were that somehow killed the SBH's. They just wasted ATLEAST 500 credits to get rid of the nuke. While getting rid of nukes does give some points, unless it's a really close point battle, chances are it won't make a huge difference. Let's also not forget that the chance of them finding the SBH's, killing them, running to a PT, switching to hotwire, running back to the nuke, and then disarming it are VERY slim. So, hey, guess what, I just found a pretty big use for the SBH, among quite a few others they have (C4ing snipers on hills, running to the side of a tank then C4ing it then laser rifling it, etc). I highly doubt that's just "1%".
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fiendin
Quote: So, hey, guess what, I just found a pretty big use for the SBH, among quite a few others they have (C4ing snipers on hills, running to the side of a tank then C4ing it then laser rifling it, etc). I highly doubt that's just "1%". Im not going to mention that there are 1359235734958 Ways that are better to deal with snipers (like say, tanks), but nobody buys snipers anyways except on flying maps.
Surth wrote on Sat, 16 February 2008 19:25 but nobody buys snipers anyways except on flying maps. An annoying high amount of people buy snipers on non flying maps very often. Go into any of the nub infested servers and you'll see a bunch of people kill whoring with snipers.
Surth wrote on Sat, 16 February 2008 13:25 Quote: So, hey, guess what, I just found a pretty big use for the SBH, among quite a few others they have (C4ing snipers on hills, running to the side of a tank then C4ing it then laser rifling it, etc). I highly doubt that's just "1%". Im not going to mention that there are 1359235734958 Ways that are better to deal with snipers (like say, tanks), but nobody buys snipers anyways except on flying maps. Yeah, I agree. Also any sniper who is stupid enough to get a C4 on him by a SBH should stay in base mining and repairing.
Quote: Yeah, I agree. Also any sniper who is stupid enough to get a C4 on him by a SBH should stay in base mining and repairing. Exactly. You can hear their steps, but even if you listen to music (which i do on publics as there is no one to communicate with anyway) you can simply turn around every 5 seconds and keep moving a bit. Most of the time there is a SBH waiting 20 minutes to get a c4 on me only to then get headshotted or miss his c4.
Cabal8616 wrote on Sat, 16 February 2008 08:02 MWright967 wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 18:51 Touche' my friend, touche'. However, I wasn't refering to that sandbag, but the one on the right side XP. Same story still on the right side- You CAN repair it, though I'd have to say it's pretty hard to catch unless you have a nuke beacon advantage skin, or unless the power plant is the only building left. Although, I think that MW was referring to the place behind those sandbags, not in front. It takes a few extra seconds to get to it, and those extra few seconds are fairly crucial to the survival of the nuke. And as for an orca flying around to detect it... You do realize that unless there are no tanks atall in the field trying to attack the GDI base, an orca will more than likely be busy trying to fend off Nod attacks. SBH's are good on their own, but best if used in combination with teamates. Get a few SBH's (Repeat- A FEW. Not the whole fucking team.), sneak into the base, and while that's happening, have your Nod buddies be attacking the GDI base. Many people on the GDI team will be too preoccupied fending off the Nod attack to handle some SBH's. Even if there's a few GDI people scanning the base for that SBH, then congrats- The SBH served a purpose. Why? Well, those few people are busy trying to search for said SBH's to be on the frontlines helping their allies. Really, unless there's the same amount of people on GDI trying to take out the SBH's as their are the SBH's themselves, you'll have some form of advantage. The only time this doesn't work is if the numbers are uneven... Which, in a clanwar, I would doubt would happen very often. I must admit that an SBH's usefulness is lowered quite a bit in an orginized clan war, but it's not "99% useless" as you say. As I said before, even if there are no SBH's, chances are GDI will fear them being in their base, causing them to be uneasy and have atleast a few people scanning the base. That's a few less people not defending. However, the only way you can actually make this work, is by actually using SBH's once in awhile.. Therefore, if you never use them, the GDI side will catch on to this, and will have more people defending Nod assaults. And also, if there's two people scanning for 2 SBH's, unless they're not hotwires, chances are the SBH's can rape the hotwires. They have laser rifles, hotwires only have proxy C4's... And if they throw some proxy's down, this'll remove existing proxy's , which helps, too. Same story with timed C4's. Chances are they're gonna know this, and won't use them. So they'll use pistols instead. Unless the SBH's suck SERIOUS amounts of cock, they should be able to kill the hotwires with ease. Now, if they ARE infact offensive units, unless it's a unit below 400, they just wasted money trying to kill a 400 credit unit. You said those "400 credits could be used for much better purposes for Nod", right? Same story for GDI, then. Let use compare the SBH to units that cost 400 and below (Assuming both players are of or around equal skill level). GDI soldier vs SBH: The laser rifle is a fairly more powerful version of the GDI auto rifle. It does 3 more damage, and though it has half the rate of fire (5 compared to 10) of the auto rifle, it not only has instant hit (400 velocity in Renegade is instant, compared to 350 of the GDI auto rifle), but it also has burn damage. I think burn damage is an extra 10 damage added on. And also, a headshot does 50 damage... So assuming you get lots of headshots (Which is easier thanks to the instant hit part), you're doing 50 damage each. The GDI soldier only has 100 health and 100 armor, so 4 of those, and he's dead. Wheras a headshot with his rifle does 35 damage. SBH has 200 health and 100 armor, so it would take quite a few more headshots to kill the SBH. GDI Grenadier vs SBH: Grenades are hard to aim with, especially when in a direct battle. An SBH should have little to no trouble killing a grenadier. GDI Shotgun trooper vs SBH: The shotgun trooper is only good close range, so unless you're in a really tight area (Doubtful, since the area we're talking about isn't that hard to escape from and get on open land), the SBH only has to get within a certain range to rape the shotgunner. GDI Engineer vs SBH: A worse version of the hotwire, and we've already discussed that an SBH should be able to kill a hotwire. GDI Officer vs SBH: A better version of the GDI soldier, though the chaingun does 5 damage per bullet instead of 7. Same ROF too. Though, the officer might still be somewhat of a challenge to the SBH, but the SBH SHOULD be able to take care of him. Especially since the SBH still has 50 more health than the officer. GDI Rocket Soldier Officer vs SBH: Rocket Soldier Officers are known to be just plain terrible. Slow ROF, and even slower missiles make them a pretty bad choice vs like... Anything. Especially an automatic weapon user like the SBH. Sydney vs SBH: Sydney's not too great- The ROF of the tiberium auto rifle is the same as the SBH's, but the damage is 2 less. This is assuming the projectile actually hits- With a velocity of 100, it's doubtful that the Sydney will get many hits. Though, the tiberium DOT (Damage over time) is pretty good if it does hit, and the explosion has a slight bit of splash radius. It's also pretty good for making a smokescreen I guess, to hamper the SBH's aim. The SBH should still be able to take out the Sydney, though it may be somewhat of a threat if used very well. Gunner vs SBH: Gunner's actually not too bad thanks to his faster and more damaging rockets. He MIGHT pose a threat to the SBH, though the fact that he's a pretty big target makes him easier to kill. The SBH should be able to steer clear of direct hits with the rocket, though it IS harder to avoid the splash radius. I've not encountered too many Gunners ingame so I can't say. He also costs the same as the SBH, so unless there's an existing gunner on the field (Doubtful as their usefulness is still fairly limited), they just wasted as much money as the Nod guys did. That's about it. The only things that might pose a threat to the Nod SBH's are the units that cost money. And for GDI, their tanks cost MORE than Nod's tanks. And, if they switch to those characters from whoever they were previously, they just wasted their money on attacking an SBH, and also wasted their time which could have been used defending the base or helping out in the field. Even better if you placed the nuke and they switch to a Hotwire from whoever they were that somehow killed the SBH's. They just wasted ATLEAST 500 credits to get rid of the nuke. While getting rid of nukes does give some points, unless it's a really close point battle, chances are it won't make a huge difference. Let's also not forget that the chance of them finding the SBH's, killing them, running to a PT, switching to hotwire, running back to the nuke, and then disarming it are VERY slim. So, hey, guess what, I just found a pretty big use for the SBH, among quite a few others they have (C4ing snipers on hills, running to the side of a tank then C4ing it then laser rifling it, etc). I highly doubt that's just "1%". BTW: If you want a perfect example of this, when I was playing Roni's modded server last night, I played 2 maps before leaving: Volcano, and Hourglass. Heres how that ''99% useless SBH came in''. I was lucky enough to get Nod 2 times in a row. Volcano: I got an SBH, I went with another 2 SBH's, c4'ed their WF, destroyed it. I then got away without dying, went back, got a nuke, then got another SBH to plant a nuke at their bar while i planted one on the ref. We then had 3 arty's holding down the base with 2 techs supporting so they couldn't stop to repair both nukes, or lose a building to the artys. It was a lose-lose, so my nuke ended up destroying their ref. Now, amazingly, they did pretty much the exact same thing and destroyed 3 out of 4 of our buildings, and they still had their bar and PP. Now this whole time my team is defending their last building, our PP. While they do that, I take run along with my SBH who hasn't died for the ENTIRE GAMe, use my last remaining 1k to buy a nuke, run over, wait till all of their people run for a last siege on the hon, plant a nuke on their ped, and win the game for us all. Hourglass: We ended up losing this, unfortunately, but this is still a perfect example of how an SBH comes into play. I killed an Engineer, retrieved his remote mines. When the lovely MRL's would come from the sides, I would simply walk behind then, plant two remote mines on them without knowing, ignite them, and BOOM, good bye MRL. I think kill whoever was unfortunate enough to go inside, and rack up huge kills. Want another example? After we destroyed their AGT (they ended up beating us with a ped nuke, ironically), I ran in with my 99% useless SBH, along with my remote mines, planted them on the spawn points, waited till someone spawned, picked an engineer, and once they began to leave, BOOM. Popped them. Grabbed more remote mines. Repeated. I then planted two remote mines on the terminal in the Refinery in which they were respawning, killed one that respawned with my rifle, grabbed another 2 remote mines, placed a total of 4, along with my timed, and began completely molesting the terminal. 99% useless is just plain ignant'.
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 16 February 2008 15:07 Volcano: I got an SBH, I went with another 2 SBH's, c4'ed their WF, destroyed it. Last time I checked, Roni's server did not have starting credits. A SBH costs 400 and a Hottie costs 350. If GDI had the slightest clue as to how to play the game, they would have gone on the offensive into your base and even managed to take down the PP or Ref. With the extra credits, some should have bought Hotties (especially on a map with no base defense) and mine the entrances to the buildings ASAP. Since they did not mine like the idiots they were (long enough for the enemy to get 400 credit SBH), they let a bunch of n00by SBH's to destroy an important structure. Otherwise, teched MLRS = GG Simply put, you played against idiots and therefore won. MWright967 wrote on Sat, 16 February 2008 15:07 Hourglass: We ended up losing this, unfortunately, but this is still a perfect example of how an SBH comes into play. I killed an Engineer, retrieved his remote mines. When the lovely MRL's would come from the sides, I would simply walk behind then, plant two remote mines on them without knowing, ignite them, and BOOM, good bye MRL. MLRS should not be parked while they are attacking. They should be driving forward and reverse as they are attacking. You fire the salvo of rockets, reverse slightly out of view of Nod (quickly scan behind you), then move up a bit and fire again. The MLRS driver failed to check behind him and also, if this server was pure mode (without n00by weapon drops) then the whole SBH/remotes is rendered useless. SBH can still attack with Timed but how long are you gonna be doing that? Also why attack an MLRS with SBH? Can the SBH shoot and kill the WF? No. Save up and get Tech/Arty: not only will you be killing every MLRS that sneaked up the side, you will also be able to attack GDI buildings. MWright967 wrote on Sat, 16 February 2008 15:07 I think kill whoever was unfortunate enough to go inside, and rack up huge kills. Well, getting an insane amount of kills is surely motivating but won't win you the game. MWright967 wrote on Sat, 16 February 2008 15:07 Want another example? After we destroyed their AGT (they ended up beating us with a ped nuke, ironically), I ran in with my 99% useless SBH, along with my remote mines planted them on the spawn points, waited till someone spawned, picked an engineer, and once they began to leave, BOOM. Popped them. Grabbed more remote mines. Repeated. I then planted two remote mines on the terminal in the Refinery in which they were respawning, killed one that respawned with my rifle, grabbed another 2 remote mines, placed a total of 4, along with my timed, and began completely molesting the terminal. All that won't work if the server does not have drop weapons enabled!
You do realize you're basically saying "OK THE SBH IS USELESS BECAUSE OF THIS INCREDIBLY MINUTE AND SPECIFIC SITUATION HERE THEREFORE IT MUST BE 99% USELESS", right?
Cabal8616 wrote on Sat, 16 February 2008 22:54 You do realize you're basically saying "OK THE SBH IS USELESS BECAUSE OF THIS INCREDIBLY MINUTE AND SPECIFIC SITUATION HERE THEREFORE IT MUST BE 99% USELESS", right?
No, its useless because there is almost always a better way of attacking the enemy then sitting on your ass for 10 minutes because you cant get through the mines.
Another ignorant statement. There's many uses to an SBH than just sitting on your ass. If you seriously can't find a use for it, then you fail pretty hard if you can't make use of something that has a moderately powerful rifle, radar stealth, visable stealth (To a certain point), and decent health. Yes, there are times when a battle calls for a technician instead of an SBH, but if you seriously think that just because those times happen make the SBH useless, you either need to play as Nod more, or actually USE the friggin SBH.
You tell me to play as nod more? I've played probably near to 1000 cw matches, probably more then 100 against teams like SoQ, EF or H2O. There is NO need for SBHs, because they dont dish out much damage, because they are infantry and thus slow, and because the enemy just stomps into your base while you are still walking around. But even in Publics, most people who buy a SBH just sit on their ass doing nothing for 30 Minutes instead of repairing my arty or buying a light and storming the fucking field.
Surth wrote on Sun, 17 February 2008 05:01 You tell me to play as nod more? I've played probably near to 1000 cw matches, probably more then 100 against teams like SoQ, EF or H2O. There is NO need for SBHs, because they dont dish out much damage, because they are infantry and thus slow, and because the enemy just stomps into your base while you are still walking around. But even in Publics, most people who buy a SBH just sit on their ass doing nothing for 30 Minutes instead of repairing my arty or buying a light and storming the fucking field. For one, it's somewhat doubtful that having a single (Or two if you go with another SBH) person be the sole key in fending off an entire GDI assault. And yes, we're going to assume that it's the ENTIRE GDI TEAM, because according to you, SBH's are useless, and GDI knows this, so they're all going to attack, right? Definetly NOT something you should try and, y'know, take advantage of. Let's also not forget that a single person can turn the tide of whole battle when a bunch of tanks are apperently "stomping" your base.
Yeah, like he can... laserbeam my warfactory while i kill your whole base with Mediumtanks and Orcas...
Serves as a nice distraction then, doesn't it. A few people are BOUND to rush back to their base if they hear their base is under attack. Or, if you actually do have a nuke, plant the nuke on one of their buildings. And I really highly doubt that your team is THAT bad as to all of a sudden completely fail without you unless it's like a 5 vs 5 clanwar. If they really do, you should probably join another clan... Also, I've won in public serv's with SBH's, as have many others I'm sure. Don't even tell me that they're useless there.
Cabal8616 wrote on Sun, 17 February 2008 05:23 Serves as a nice distraction then, doesn't it. A few people are BOUND to rush back to their base if they hear their base is under attack. Err. No? Quote: Or, if you actually do have a nuke, plant the nuke on one of their buildings. And get your whole base raped in exchange for one building. Quote: And I really highly doubt that your team is THAT bad as to all of a sudden completely fail without you unless it's like a 5 vs 5 clanwar. If they really do, you should probably join another clan... Do you want to ad hominem me? Do you want to base your argument on my lacking skill eventhough im probably way better then you are? Quote: Also, I've won in public serv's with SBH's, as have many others I'm sure. Don't even tell me that they're useless there. I've won Publics with a tiberium sydney.
AWESOME! This is the best tactic ever. I just tried it in game and won like 46 times.
Cabal8616 wrote on Sun, 17 February 2008 04:54 You do realize you're basically saying "OK THE SBH IS USELESS BECAUSE OF THIS INCREDIBLY MINUTE AND SPECIFIC SITUATION HERE THEREFORE IT MUST BE 99% USELESS", right? I never said SBH is 99% useless. It's just the theme of the argument here. And no, that's not what I am saying either. If SBH is so so good as you say, then why did EVERY public game I ever played where the Nod team is full of SBH fail to GDI? Think about the TIME that is wasted while you are a SBH. How many players today actually have the balls to harv-walk? How many of them just wait around for the Havoc to get half-health so then they can attack him and get his fucking Ramjet? And SBH is useful for vehicle stealing? LMAO...you repair your vehicle in the field in short quick bursts. Of course a SBH is going to steal the vehicle if the n00b just jumps out and repairs till 100% health/armor. Renegade is a tank game. Take for example a typical Public game in CnC_Field: just take a look at how many losers are in the tunnels simply trying to get kills while doing a ratsass job to help the team win.
Actually, *adjusts glasses* sbh's are 98.5 repeated % useless.
MWright967 wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 08:38 1. No. It isn't repairable from the ground. Secondly, I think you forget something: They don't know where I AM. So the only time in which the orca will be able to shoot me, is when and IF the hotwires even find my nuke, and lets not forget, timed C4 works wonder, especially in such a tight little area as behind that sand bag. And hey, what if they have no WF? What if they have no money and can't buy an orca? Or what if all the useable orcas are on the field and dont make it back in time? Not repairable from the ground? I lol'd. Also, the Orca doesn't need to find you. You'll give yourself away the minute you start firing. And if you don't fire? That's fine. Your nuke will get disarmed either way. MWright967 wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 08:38 2. Given my record? Sorry Dover, but I never recall having ever played with you, nor do I believe that you know anything of my uhhhh, ''record'' so to speak, considering I don't have one. I'm on the top 20 in some servers, and in others I'm that ''noob'' who comes in with a rank of 6121 out of 8000. I play on multiple servers and, considering I have never seen you in game (to my knowledge or memory) I highly doubt you are one for the judging. Believe me if you like, disbelieve me if you like. It doesn't really change fact, now does it? Point being, I use this strategy EVERY time I play Nod on Walls. And I have yet to fail. If you don't want to believe that, I really couldn't care less, considering I do have people who can vouch for my legitimacy. I meant given your record of posting bullshit on these forums, making up statistics, saying things that are just plain untrue, etc. And about the "yet to fail" thing, you are either: -Lying. -Playing against retards in UNRules, or something. MWright967 wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 08:38 3. Right. Because we all know how many APC's on a 25-50 player wall's game even make it past the med's and mammy's camping outside. Oh but wait, since you have such 1337 APC skills, you can just demine all the doors for your little SBH assistance to go in, instead of mining the tunnel and allowing them to come in at will and spawn kill, place nukes on the sides of the builing (AKA, that little L-Shaped corner behind the WF).I don't disagree with the part of ''Mining the ramps for detection purposes'', but mining buildings? Wow. Don't be ignorant. Mining buildings is ignorant? ...lol. I'll let someone else handle this bit. MWright967 wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 08:38 4. Whoaz, nukes aren't scary? Wow I never knew that. Thanks for telling me Dover. Hey, a small hard to see beacon which can be placed in odd areas out of the reach of large numbers of players making it easy for the placer to pick them off at will. What could be good about that, right? I mean hey, with all that awesome C4 those SBH's have, they can run in the building. But wait Dover- you mined the buildings instead of the front, so they can't get in, right? Dang. Oh and gosh, I forgot, on large maps every building will usually have at least 1 person in it who will just alert his/her team mates or demine it themselves . Awww...Hopes raised for no reason... My life is over *Puts gun to head. Bang.* Lol. So, they'll be tipped off about invisible people with C4, but NOT about beeping beacons of doom that come with a server-wide warning and change the weather effects? But whatever. I'll leave this for someone else too, since you clearly know so much more about Renegade than I.
Cabal8616 wrote on Sun, 17 February 2008 04:56 Yes, there are times when a battle calls for a technician instead of an SBH... Every battle needs a Technician/Hottie while a SBH...lmfaoooooo
Surth wrote on Sun, 17 February 2008 12:28 Err. No? Well, I'll admit actually, that unless you're doing damage to the building (Decent damage), they probly won't rush back. But, it'd atleast help some to kill off any people that die and respawn in the base. At THAT point, multiple people are probably going to come back and help. One way or another, you can atleast serve as a distraction. Surth And get your whole base raped in exchange for one building. Again, we're assuming that GDI has so much firepower to rape your base soley because there's a lack of a single Nod technician running around. If that's the case, then by all means, be a tech. But since I'm pretty damn sure that rarely happens, I'd still rather stick to a tactic that changes the usual "be a tank, have techs, kill shit, repeat" that goes back and forth. Surth Do you want to ad hominem me? Do you want to base your argument on my lacking skill eventhough im probably way better then you are? I didn't say you lacked skill altogether. I said that if your clan itself lacks that much skill. I don't doubt that you're probably better than I am skill-wise in Renegade. Lrn2read. Surth I've won Publics with a tiberium sydney. Good for you, I never said Sydney's are 99% useless like you're saying SBH's are. Therefore, the relevence is 0. Though I'm pretty sure that was a sarcastic remark trying to state that you've won with a usually bad unit. In which case, NO U. If you can't take the word of several people over your own damn personal opinions of something, then it seems to me like you're the one with prejudices. ------------------------------------------------ Starbuzz I never said SBH is 99% useless. It's just the theme of the argument here. And no, that's not what I am saying either. Then I retract my statement if you're not jumping on the bandwagon saying SBH is 99% useless. It annoys me when people make up bullshit statistics to boost their probably already over inflated ego. Starbuzz If SBH is so so good as you say, then why did EVERY public game I ever played where the Nod team is full of SBH fail to GDI? I never said that it's all Nod should use- Infact, it's one of the most dumbass things to do to have a team FULL of SBH's. They're only good in very small groups (1, 2, maybe 3, depending on server side). Those are just the dumbasses you see in various public servers. In which case, yeah, they SHOULD get technicians and help the few arties/lights out on the field. If there even are any... Starbuzz Think about the TIME that is wasted while you are a SBH. How many players today actually have the balls to harv-walk? How many of them just wait around for the Havoc to get half-health so then they can attack him and get his fucking Ramjet? It depends what you're actually doing with the SBH to even be decent with them. And, if you're gonna say "Well no one has the balls to do it", then get the balls yourself and do it. Though, I'm pretty sure harv walking is forbidden in some servers. As for the havoc thing. Most people that camp with havocs are like "LULZ I R SNIPPR GAWD I SNIPE U FRM HEER LOOOOOOL" and don't move around that much. Sneak up on the bastard (You can use crouch, you know. It minimizes sound.), then C4 his ass. Or start off with a nice little headshot. If you have enough room to still see him but be within complete stealth distance, stand back some and wait for him to turn around then turn back so he thinks it's clear. While killing the havoc DOES sometimes reward you with a ramjet, that shouldn't be your priority. It's mostly good if the bastards are sniping your techs out in the field (If there are no techs, that's one of those times I said to BE one). Starbuzz And SBH is useful for vehicle stealing? LMAO...you repair your vehicle in the field in short quick bursts. Of course a SBH is going to steal the vehicle if the n00b just jumps out and repairs till 100% health/armor. Renegade is a tank game. Take for example a typical Public game in CnC_Field: just take a look at how many losers are in the tunnels simply trying to get kills while doing a ratsass job to help the team win. SBH's aren't neccisarily ALWAYS going to tank steal, yeah, but at the same time, not everyone is ALWAYS going to run out in short bursts. Especially if your team/clan has no history of using SBH's. One of Nod's specialty's is the element of suprise, right? Use it to your advantage. Again, it's another situation in Renegade that depends on the skill of the player and their knowlage of what to do. Pretty much only works in a public server, yeah, or against a really retarded clan. As for the field thing, what relevence does that have with Renegade being a "tank" game? If by that you mean "Everyone's infantry so that's why it goes nowhere", then I do agree some, though it's handy there to have a few people in there. One to snipe techs/hotties from waterfall, another to protect said sniper (Another situation that depends on the amount of players, of course). Though, tunnel rushing IS quite retarded. ---------------------------------------------------- As for Dover's post... Yeah, that beacon's repairable from both sides, MW. It's better if it's BEHIND the sandbags on the right side. As I said, takes a few extra seconds to get to. Starbuzz Every battle needs a Technician/Hottie while a SBH...lmfaoooooo Uh, assuming you meant "instead of an SBH" and not "while a SBH" (The latter having no relevence to what you quoted), then that's a pretty ignorant statement to make. If the whole damned team is a bunch of techs instead of the whole damned team being a bunch of SBH's, it'd be the same result- Failure. If everyone is SBH's as you say, well then, if they all switch to techs, your whole team's going to become techs.
Cabal8616 wrote on Mon, 18 February 2008 00:05 As for Dover's post... Yeah, that beacon's repairable from both sides, MW. It's better if it's BEHIND the sandbags on the right side. As I said, takes a few extra seconds to get to. (This is relevant, I swear) A friend of mine has a "death from above" tactic he uses in Halo 2, in which he flies directly over a concentration of enemy troops using a banshee while holding a sword or a shotgun. Then he jumps out and goes to town on them. On flying maps, I use a slight modification, where I buy a Hotwire and an Orca, and rig it with two remote C4 (I make sure to refill, so I'm carrying C4 as well if I need them in combat). That way when there's a nuke planted anywhere outside a structure (Including on top of structures and in tricky places like the top of the WF), I can reach it rapidly and jump out. If the SBH steals my Orca, I blow it up and defuse in peace. If they try to shoot me first, I throw remotes and blow them up the old fashioned way. Either way, the nuke gets defused, the SBH gets blown up, the structure is saved, and I even get a 300 credit partial-refund on my orca for defusing. So, using that, the only safe place for a nuke is inside structures (Which should always be mined) or someplace like inside the WF bay, which is always suicidal at best. It doesn't matter in the slightest which side the sandbags are on.
I honestly don't want to pull a Trooprm02 here, but guys.... If you think the SBH isn't one of the best characters in the game, you're a dumb ass.
Well, it's not THE best character out there, but CERTAINLY not the worst, nor the most useless.
Cabal8616 wrote on Mon, 18 February 2008 03:24 Well, it's not THE best character out there, but CERTAINLY not the worst, nor the most useless. Well, lets face it. The SBH rifle is an extremely versatile weapon. In an SBH rush it can deal decent damage to buildings, great damage (provided you get headshots) to infantry, tear unarmored vehicles to pieces, and hurt armored vehicles. Also, vehicle stealing. People say no one uses this.....I do. I steal so many mammy's with this it isn't even funny. The SBH is the most versatile in the game. Do you realize the amount freedom you have in long ranges from stealth? You can do recon, snipe with a 4-loader, and pretty much get a weapon from a human or a spawn, and tear up the countryside. Like I said previously, I play the game FOR the SBH. There is no best character, all are unique and have various deficiencies and effeciences, but the SBH is by no means one of the worst characters and is definitely in my, and most people's, top favorite and or best charater list.
Quote: Like I said previously, I play the game FOR the SBH. See, this is the whole problem. When I join a server and it's 8v8 and at the start of islands 4 players of the Nod team get a sbh, then I know I can say goodbye to victory. And it happens all too often on any map, though mostly on mlaps without base defences. Using a sbh to steal vehicles is a complete waste of time. Then again: if you got people that allow you to steal mammies, then it's their own fault because: 1. mammies in an open field is just begging to give loads of points to the enemy anyway 2. repairing mammies in an open field is begging to get it stolen. Only thing you could maybe do is repair in small intervals. I think I mentioned this before: it all depends on the amount of players, vehicle limit, the amount of teamplay, amount of "skill" (I mean game awareness, e.g. not taking an officer when u get 175 credits), ...
Yeah, it's how you use it that matters. It's VERY tiring when the whole team thinks they can be the lone wolf with an SBH. SBH's are mostly a support unit, not a "LOLZ SUPAR DUPAR UNIT". And yeah, being an SBH SOLEY for stealing units is stupid, as it rarely happens. But it CAN happen. It's better to have another goal in mind and only do it if you have a pretty clear chance to do so. One thing the SBH can do to help destroy vechs though is, shoot the hotwire/engineer repairing the vehicle when they're attacking your base. This can accomplish one of the following: 1: You kill the engineer/hotwire, thus allowing your teamates to easily take out the vehicle. 2: The hotwire/engineer jumps back in the vehicle. Bye bye repairs from them, then. 3: The vehicle turns its attention to you. This distracts them from attacking your base, letting your teamates get those precious few moments needed to fend off the enemy attack. Also, thanks Goztow for not adding a completely biased opinion here. It's nice to see that once in awhile.
I used to play clanwars a long time ago. Now I only play on jellys-Mappack server cuz I get bored of the regular 6 year old maps. Usually play in small <10 a side games. Soon as my Nod team buys 4 sbh, yes its good bye! SBH are pretty useless. The only time I ever use them is to perhaps steal an orca if the strip is down. 1/10 a nuke works. On lage 40 players servers, a cordinated nuke (with cover that the whole team knows about) works. However, noobish loner sbh strikes are just 300 points for GDI (unless GDI is retarded). Another thing I hate is when SBH do nothing but annoy you when sniping (cuz they aint got the balls to take u head on as a sniper). This once happened on Niagra map. I was sniping, I got jumped by 5 sbh all scavanging for my rifle. When this happened. I just respawned, got a hummer, hotwire (and a teammate), and blew up the hand. I knew this would work because 5 sbh = 5 less people in base to stop me. Then I got flamed for killwhoring Well the sbh shouldnt have jumped me then! Play dirty with me and i'll do the same to you LOL. If you play on Jelly Mappack at the moment you will know I am currently ranked 1. I didnt get there using cheap tactics, and I will say I have never bought SBH (only once to steal an orca couple weeks back) becuase you spend most of your time hiding and evading conflict than getting points or kills.
Cabal8616 wrote on Mon, 18 February 2008 02:05 And, if you're gonna say "Well no one has the balls to do it", then get the balls yourself and do it. Err...I got all the balls allright. I would like to see more SBH with the same balls. Like kannies mentioned, they are all busy hiding. Instead of SBH, just get Tech/Hottie and repair your team's vehicles. Once I teched 3 arts in CnC_Field in a Public game to retake the field and eventually win. Base destruction is the point of the game...but you are all allowed to "mess around" in characters that have a limited scope of use for your own enjoyment. By the time a SBH can get enough credits for a Beacon, you could already be killing their base with teched Arts. Cabal8616 wrote on Mon, 18 February 2008 05:18 1: You kill the engineer/hotwire, thus allowing your teamates to easily take out the vehicle. Unless the Engi/Hottie is really stupid and standing still, you are gonna have a hard time shooting that pesky noisy slow rifle trying to kill the repairers. Cabal8616 wrote on Mon, 18 February 2008 05:18 2: The hotwire/engineer jumps back in the vehicle. Bye bye repairs from them, then. 3: The vehicle turns its attention to you and blows your head off in one shot...there goes your 400 credits. And then attacks your base. Fixed.
Starbuzz Err...I got all the balls allright. I would like to see more SBH with the same balls. Agreed, it's tiring seeing everyone being a pussy with SBH's, or they think they're the fucking predator. SBH's are really good units, 'cept people tend not to use them well. Starbuzz Like kannies mentioned, they are all busy hiding. Instead of SBH, just get Tech/Hottie and repair your team's vehicles. Once I teched 3 arts in CnC_Field in a Public game to retake the field and eventually win. Base destruction is the point of the game...but you are all allowed to "mess around" in characters that have a limited scope of use for your own enjoyment. Not ALL, but I suppose it depends on who's playing it. And as I said, yeah, if there's arts in the field not being tech'd or not being tech'd enough, go be a tech. It'll help more than an SBH in that type of situation. However, I resent that statement of you saying they have a limited scope. They can do quite a bit more than you think they can. They're probably one of the very few units who are moderately good vs infantry, vehicles, and bases. Most have a "specialty", and aren't really good at everything, but instead, decent at a few things or very good at one thing. Starbuzz By the time a SBH can get enough credits for a Beacon, you could already be killing their base with teched Arts. Yeah, sometimes, but sometimes a battle calls for tactics that havn't been used. If they can fight off your tech'd arts (Which are quite possible if they have a bunch of meds in the field), you'll need to use something different. The SBH is one of things you can use to change up the battlefield. Starbuzz Unless the Engi/Hottie is really stupid and standing still, you are gonna have a hard time shooting that pesky noisy slow rifle trying to kill the repairers. Yeah, I know, but it IS a possibility. A low one, but possible (Not probable, just possible). Mostly the second two examples are what happen. Starbuzz Cabal8616 wrote on Mon, 18 February 2008 05:18 2: The hotwire/engineer jumps back in the vehicle. Bye bye repairs from them, then. 3: The vehicle turns its attention to you and blows your head off in one shot...there goes your 400 credits. And then attacks your base. Fixed. Not neccisarily. If it's an MRLS, they have trouble turning around easily. And if you're to their side, guess what- They turn their nice, wide, and easy to shoot side to your teamates. Making them incredibly easy to hit as compared to if they're hitting them straight on. If it's a med, well, I'll admit that you'll probably have trouble killing it, but there IS such a thing as "dodging the shells". Not THAT hard to avoid a tank. Especially if you can run up to the side and react to any of their movements, and even plant a C4 on it. Chances are, yeah, the hotwire will jump and out get rid of it- But that also means they'll be spending less time repairing the med itself. Even if they repair a bit of both at the same time, the repairs on the med are still slowed, giving your team a definite advantage. If it's a mammoth... Well, people rarely use mammoths... And if they do, chances are they're the types of people that think they can win the whole game with an SBH and no coordination with their team. So it'd probably get owned anyways. Also, mammoths are really easy to dodge once you run right up next to 'em, making it even better.
Quote: , giving your team a definite advantage. Yes, thats what its all about. And guess what, i can think of 100 Ways that are either cheaper or are more effective then buying a sbh.
List atleast 10 of them to prove me wrong, then. The ONLY thing I've heard you say is better than buying an SBH, is a technician, which I've not said is completely wrong- I agree, there are many cases which call for a tech over an SBH, but there's also times when an extra technician just won't help enough.
Usually getting a tank is a better idea than getting infantry anyway.
100 was obviously an auxesis. But whatever: Technician LCG Raveshaw Sakura Arts/Flamers/Lights/Stanks (depends on the map, but you'll need 1 or 2 different vehicle types on most maps) You see, Its just like you have the choice of getting a salary of 2000 Euro or 3000 Euro. The 2000 Euro is the SBH, the 3000 the Vehicle. See, theres just always a better option then buying a SBH. ALWAYS.
Surth Technician As I said, yes, there are times the battle calls for technicians, and times when it calls for changes in tactics. Whether you want to beleive it or not, a bunch of tech'd arties<a bunch of tech'd meds. There's just times when it calls for a change in tactics, to suprise the enemy. EVERYONE's going to expect tanks to run up to them and try to take them down. Alot less people will expect an SBH to come and fuck their shit up. Surth LCG LCG's are good against tanks, but they cost 50 more, and aren't too great for base assaults. They're good for fending off enemy tanks when you lack an airstrip, though still not excellent. They're also not stealthed like an SBH is. Surth Raveshaw Raveshaw costs 1,000, his range isn't that great, and his anti-tank capabilities aren't that great. You'd be better off with an engineer and a light tank/stank. He's also not that great vs infantry, really. Sakura's better vs infantry, or a 500 sniper. Really, he's basically got the same capabilities as an SBH, but he isn't stealthed, and costs 600 more. And for what? 50 more health? Lame. Surth Sakura Only for taking out orcas and/or infantry. Or point whoring. Otherwise, the 600 you spend isn't really going to help much except perhaps to point whore, which is quite frowned upon in many servers (In publics though I know some of them fix the pointwhoring glitch). For base assault, or taking out tanks or serving as a distraction, they don't compare atall to an SBH. You'd be better off with a tank or LCG for base assault and anti tank. Surth Arts/Flamers/Lights/Stanks (depends on the map, but you'll need 1 or 2 different vehicle types on most maps) For one, yes, you always need tanks in the field. And also, having 7 arts on the field while not tech'd=fail. I've seen it WAY too many times where everyone thinks spamming arties will win them the game. It doesn't. But yes I do agree, you need some variety in tanks. About 3 arts max while tech'd, and various other tanks to help them (Lights and stanks are preferred, flames are really only good for base assault). However, if your vehicle limit is full, guess what- This option's fucked. What then? Tech spam? Yeah, if they got havocs to take out your techs, you're screwed. Because everyone's too busy being a tech to clear those havocs, and chances are the havocs aren't dumb enough to stand still and take arty shells to the face. That's DEFINETLY where some SBH's or various other infantry come in handy, to help take out those havocs. They can run up to an infantry, and really, unless they're being shot at, by the time the stealth is visable, you're in range of your laser rifle. One nice thing about Renegade maps is that sniper nests often have multiple points of entry, allowing flank tactics with infantry. Especially useful as an SBH. I've also seen this many times- Hell, I've even been on the defensive side when the GDI team only used hotwires, MRLS's, and mammoths (which suprisingly didn't die in an instant... and the game didn't have a time limit so points didn't matter). Guess what I did? Ran through their tank lines with an SBH, and picked off some hotwires. Of course, some of them ran back into the MRLS, but it still helped ALOT. And when they ran back into the MRLS/Mammoth, guess what I did? Laser rifle'd the MRLS's, and even killed a few. I was lucky enough to pick up an LCG after that too, cuz one of my teamates died as an LCG black hand, which allowed me to take out some mammoths, but that doesn't count much here I suppose, seeing as how not every server has weapon drops enabled. But yeah, long story short, their assault got demolished, with the help of teamates of course. And why did we fend off the attack? Not because of a Raveshaw. Not because of a Sakura. Not because of a technician. Not because of a stank (Airstrip was dead anyways). Not because of an arty (Though there was one helping there). Not because of a light tank. Not because of a flamer. Not because of an LCGer. And not because of the SBH, even. It was because of many of the Nod team pulled together, with the HELP of an SBH, that they held off the rush. Had I been a Raveshaw, Sakura, LCG, or whatnot, I would NOT have been able to get behind enemy lines and take out the hotwires. Infact, if I recall, I only had enough money for an SBH at the time, so the only things I COULD have afforded was a technician or waited some time for an LCG. Surth You see, Its just like you have the choice of getting a salary of 2000 Euro or 3000 Euro. The 2000 Euro is the SBH, the 3000 the Vehicle. See, theres just always a better option then buying a SBH. ALWAYS. A good anology, if it were actually realistic. Naturally, if you had the choice to choose something better, you'd go for it. But for one, you don't always have that choice. In real life, your choices are limited. You're usually limited in money in Renegade anyways, so an SBH is sometimes one of the few units you have. And also, as I said before, vech limit . That's like saying a nuke is better than a soldier in real life. No fucking shit it's better, but yet we still use infantry and tanks in warfare. Why? For one, much cheaper. For two, many situations do NOT call for a nuke. Example: Clearing out a terrorist camp with hostages. Do we nuke it? No, because it calls for a smaller, specialized task force. The same can be applied to an SBH over a tank. For one, you can't always build tanks, but let's say you can. Would an untech'd art REALLY help that much? No, you'd need a technician to help out, which really wouldn't do much. Especially vs havocs taking out your hotwires. They'll just instantly kill your art in seconds flat. And let's say you join your tank force up at the front lines. That means the techs there will probably try and repair your art. What then? Well, the untech'd arts are then attacked. The enemy, unless they're braindead, will attack the weakest target. If the techs DON'T repair your otherwise untech'd art, you're fucked. Congrats on wasting 400 credits on an arty, when you could have been an SBH and helped take out havocs. Or even better, congrats on getting your teamates fucked.
the idea that an SBH will do a better job of dealing with havocs than an artillery will is rather mystifying
damn man you just said how theres always something better than an sbh at accomplishing your task. If you want to kill hotties on meds get a sak if you want to kill tanks get a teched art. The only thing sbhs are good at are stealing tanks - only possible after the sak has picked off the hottie and nuking on non base defense maps - and the nuking bit is only for pubs throw in a cw and sbhs are only a last ditch attempt at a win by stealing a med in your ass on say complex. even nuking would be done better by a sniper or engie so you can kill yourself and get back
This topic is not about being an sbh but getting rid off them when they come into your base. Any way the main reason why nod win on no-base defense maps is because they plant nukes with other sbh`s or on there own and they plant them in sneaky areas which everyone no about. So thats why you should always have some one just scanning the base with an humm-vee or an APC or Mobius so if a sbh does have a nuke we can kill them before they plant the beacon
topcap you had your page of amazingly good strategy now theres a discussion with two sides goin
No, topcap. No. Unless you're still being housebroken, there is no reason why SBH planting nukes should be anything less (or more) than free points.
Cabal8616 wrote on Tue, 19 February 2008 13:02 List atleast 10 of them to prove me wrong, then. The ONLY thing I've heard you say is better than buying an SBH, is a technician, which I've not said is completely wrong- I agree, there are many cases which call for a tech over an SBH, but there's also times when an extra technician just won't help enough. Name a time when a tech wont help? I thought you can never get too many technicians! They repair the base, they repair tanks. A teched arty yes is nearly unstoppable, but get 2 or 3 techs behind that arty, the techs can repair each other when injured. Maybe repairing tanks doesnt get you that many points or get you an MVP, but if you work as a team and manage to take out the base defenses or some other critical structure, then you have played your part and you can then ego (with SBH if you wish). SBH do have their uses, but at the beggining of the game, when you have no idea what the enemy will do or what strategy they will play, buying them is usually a waste of time. If you want to coordinate a SBH c4 rush, usually its a good idea to try and discover if they have mined or not. Nothing worse than getting to base, fully mined then you are just 3SBH hanging around being useless.
But what happens if the sbh`s plant more than one nuke thats 750 points to them
And 2500 Points for GDI because they killed your fucking buildings.
kannies wrote on Wed, 20 February 2008 02:59 Maybe repairing tanks doesnt get you that many points or get you an MVP, but if you work as a team and manage to take out the base defenses or some other critical structure, then you have played your part and you can then ego (with SBH if you wish). That's an excellent point kannies has hit on. Most players in Public servers today care more about their ego-boosting kill counts, points, and being MVP while the most important teamwork often takes second place. There are innumerable games I played where I had low scores but the team won due to constant Tech/Hottie support I (and other players) provided.
when i first started plaing this gme 5 years ago people were more smart with sbh`s. now is they see a sbh they chase them shooting at them but then they just ran after them casualy. also now more and more people are planting nukes with sbh`s but then they did a APC rush with sbh`s in then let them out nd they will do a beacon rush. now they plant single beacons becuase then there were no people scanning the base.
my point of that post was that there were less people scanning the base then than there is now so more loan beacons being placed
Personally ,I think we lose sight of the entire thing. . . ..This is a game. Game's are meant to have fun with. SBH's are yes, fun. Therefore, SBH's kick ass. Period.
Is it fun to realize that your ultimate nuke spot can be disarmed from less than 10 feet away from a PT?
Dover wrote on Wed, 20 February 2008 20:30 Is it fun to realize that your ultimate nuke spot can be disarmed from less than 10 feet away from a PT? No, not MY nuke spot. I don't put there. I put it to the right, where it can't be repaired from the ground. The internet is not serious business
Calx wrote on Wed, 20 February 2008 19:39 Personally ,I think we lose sight of the entire thing. . . ..This is a game. Game's are meant to have fun with. SBH's are yes, fun. Therefore, SBH's kick ass. Period. I dont think its fun when i loose because of morons like you that dont do anything for Nod
Calx wrote on Wed, 20 February 2008 20:20 Dover wrote on Wed, 20 February 2008 20:30 Is it fun to realize that your ultimate nuke spot can be disarmed from less than 10 feet away from a PT? No, not MY nuke spot. I don't put there. I put it to the right, where it can't be repaired from the ground. The internet is not serious business You mean, the spot in my screenshots? Reading is serious business
No. I don't mean the spots in your screenshots, that would be a little pointless would it? Dover is not serious business
Spoony wrote on Wed, 20 February 2008 07:10 the idea that an SBH will do a better job of dealing with havocs than an artillery will is rather mystifying QFT. If the Havoc is decent enough, he'll just kill you once you fire off a shot. Not to mention that the only times I wouldn't get an arty would probably be on Fly maps, or when I feel like taking down the buildings with a techie on Rush maps. Quote: If you think the SBH isn't one of the best characters in the game, you're a dumb ass. I guess I'm a dumb ass, then. Also. If you think SBH can win a CW, just quit. Right now.
Who are you, orca?