Command and Conquer: Renegade Official Forums - RDF feed
type: channel
description: C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
items: Cloning/Murder
items: Re: Cloning/Murder

Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/technology.html?in_art icle_id=508887&in_page_id=1965 Quote: A scientist has achieved a world first... by cloning himself. In a breakthrough certain to provoke an ethical furore, Samuel Wood created embryo copies of himself by placing his skin cells in a woman's egg. The embryos were the first to be made from cells taken from adult humans. Although all were destroyed in the process, the technique is seen as a vital step in the creation of cloned embryos rich in stem cells, which are "master cells" capable of becoming any type of body tissue. "We have people creating human beings with the intention of destroying them. That's appalling." And the Vatican condemned the cloning of human embryos, calling it the "worst type of exploitation of the human being". So now it has finally happened. Human cloning. Of course we are not talking about a clone grown to full term (although Im sure that has been done in a secret lab somewhere). Bear in mind what this guy is doing is: * Fertilize an egg with his DNA and force it to divide * Once it reaches 150 cells, extract stem cells from it and then destroy it So, this brings up at least these questions with a lot of people: 1. Is this murder? 2. Is it not murder because it's only 150 cells? 3. Is it murder if you kill a clone of yourself? 4. Can a blob of 150 cells have a "soul" ? 5. Would you grow a partial clone of yourself for health reasons (organ transplants)? 6. If they could grow a mindless/souless blob of meat, a partial body that just had organs, would that be okay? Add your own questions and tell what you think.
creator: Blazer
date: 2008-01-19T05:59:41-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Why the fuck are we, as humans, screwing around with existence as we know it?
creator: Dreganius
date: 2008-01-19T06:04:42-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Because we are dumbasses, and like to play God.
creator: Muad Dib15
date: 2008-01-19T06:08:06-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: So far (or as far as I know) cloning has only been researched for good purposes, such as to regrow body parts and such. Personally, I don't think killing the embryo at the point it reaches 150 stem cells is any worse than picking a flower or cutting down a tree. Since the cells haven't developed into specific cells yet, I believe that killing the embryo at that point shouldn't be considered murder at all. Sure you are depriving a possible human being of its life, but at that point the human is no more than a bunch of living cells, much like a plant. If we could use those cells for a good purpose, it should at least be taken into serious consideration. If you needed wood for a fire to keep yourself warm, would you say no to cutting down the tree because you're murdering it? No. If you needed some stem cells to grow into a heart which would become a replacement for a human who has a serious heart complication and would otherwise die...
creator: SlikRik
date: 2008-01-19T06:13:35-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: This isn't going to end well.
creator: Canadacdn
date: 2008-01-19T06:33:40-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Canadacdn wrote on Sat, 19 January 2008 00:33 This isn't going to end well. Damn right. I think cloning is worth it after reading what they've been able to do with stem cells so far.
creator: Ethenal
date: 2008-01-19T07:12:20-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Even though I like the idea of cloning in order to study stem cell research, I can't help wondering how long it will be until The Island appears. All these horror fantasy things are coming alive!
creator: Feetseek
date: 2008-01-19T07:42:20-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: arnold schwarzenegger inc
creator: Rocko
date: 2008-01-19T08:35:09-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: The above person is the first successful clone. Notice all the failure in this?
creator: Dreganius
date: 2008-01-19T08:40:35-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: HIM wrote on Sat, 19 January 2008 02:40 The above person is the first successful clone. Notice all the failure in this? is it cus im blak
creator: Rocko
date: 2008-01-19T08:41:32-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: No, it is because you are a failure at a clone. The best clone ever was black. I'm not going to say his name, you might get angry. And it's a bad thing to make trolls angry.
creator: Dreganius
date: 2008-01-19T08:51:46-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Rocko wrote on Sat, 19 January 2008 08:41 HIM wrote on Sat, 19 January 2008 02:40 The above person is the first successful clone. Notice all the failure in this? is it cus im blak sure, whatever floats your boat. Anyways, watch a movie called "The island".
creator: jnz
date: 2008-01-19T10:12:17-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Fuck cloning, I want my brain in my cloned body, Not the cloned brain, the original. Why? Because I don't wanna' die! I still want my emotions, Cloning is nothing, Brain transplants are something much more awesome.
creator: Ryu
date: 2008-01-19T13:44:36-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Muad Dib15 wrote on Sat, 19 January 2008 06:08 Because we are dumbasses, and like to play God. Someone has to do it.
creator: Chimp
date: 2008-01-19T14:42:06-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: HIM wrote on Sat, 19 January 2008 07:04 Why the fuck are we, as humans, screwing around with existence as we know it? This pretty much sums it up.
creator: Jecht
date: 2008-01-19T14:52:24-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: HIM wrote on Sat, 19 January 2008 00:04 Why the fuck are we, as humans, screwing around with existence as we know it? Because there is quite a good chance that within the next 1000 years, we won't exist anymore, unless we further ourselves. Disease, warefare, even a meteor the size of two mount everest's hitting the earth..Anything could kill us all off at any time, and the only way to keep that from happening is to find ways to improve ourselves. People use to say that science was the Devil's art, because it distorted he natural order of things...But if we didn't have science, where would be today? And if we don't develope technology like this, where might we be tomorrow?
creator: Chimp
date: 2008-01-19T15:02:02-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: I KILLED MY SELF BUT IM NOT DEAD YET!!! LOL! think about it, you killed your clone, effectively killing your self but you're not dead.
creator: Muad Dib15
date: 2008-01-19T17:03:29-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: What we need to do, is clone everyone, and then put them in a space ship and blast them off into random parts of space. One might actually find a new world suitable for life!
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2008-01-19T21:18:15-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 19 January 2008 15:18 What we need to do, is clone everyone, and then put them in a space ship and blast them off into random parts of space. One might actually find a new world suitable for life! We can send a breeding pair of Troop's out into the depths of space to create a little Troop colonie on planet Fucktard 9.
creator: Chimp
date: 2008-01-19T21:30:33-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Sounds like a plan!
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2008-01-19T21:58:52-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: MWright967 wrote on Sat, 19 January 2008 09:02 HIM wrote on Sat, 19 January 2008 00:04 Why the fuck are we, as humans, screwing around with existence as we know it? Because there is quite a good chance that within the next 1000 years, we won't exist anymore, unless we further ourselves. Disease, warefare, even a meteor the size of two mount everest's hitting the earth..Anything could kill us all off at any time, and the only way to keep that from happening is to find ways to improve ourselves. People use to say that science was the Devil's art, because it distorted he natural order of things...But if we didn't have science, where would be today? And if we don't develope technology like this, where might we be tomorrow? I was going to say something exactly similar to HIM's quote but thanks, you filled in for me pretty good. Quite honestly, people should get over this phobia. Our existence is not guaranteed at all. And those who have issues with this science are bound by mentally crippling ancient idealogies.
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-20T01:14:40-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: MWright967 wrote on Sat, 19 January 2008 09:02 HIM wrote on Sat, 19 January 2008 00:04 Why the fuck are we, as humans, screwing around with existence as we know it? Because there is quite a good chance that within the next 1000 years, we won't exist anymore, unless we further ourselves. Disease, warefare, even a meteor the size of two mount everest's hitting the earth..Anything could kill us all off at any time, and the only way to keep that from happening is to find ways to improve ourselves. People use to say that science was the Devil's art, because it distorted he natural order of things...But if we didn't have science, where would be today? And if we don't develope technology like this, where might we be tomorrow? Can I just say this... If a meteor was to crash into the earth and destroy us all, how in hell would clones save us? they'd be just as disemboweled as their neighbour. If we're gonna die, we're gonna die. Period. Clones may help us live longer, sure, and whatever floats your boat and helps you sleep at night... But you're still gonna die. We're just prolonging the inevitable.
creator: Dreganius
date: 2008-01-20T01:30:42-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: As long as they're not killing embryos above the age of 40 days old; I don't really care what happens to them. They're not even human beings yet, just group of cells. And if you're going to bash people who kill cells, go take care of the emo problem, because they're cutting up a lot of skin cells. The reality is human cloning and stem cell research could cure a lot of diseases and fix a lot of problems. And don't take about people raising clone armies; that's just irrational.
creator: [NE]Fobby[GEN]
date: 2008-01-20T01:35:30-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: HIM wrote on Sat, 19 January 2008 01:04 Why the fuck are we, as humans, screwing around with existence as we know it? We do what we must, because we can. If you don't get the reference, you suck.
creator: Canadacdn
date: 2008-01-20T06:46:51-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: For the good of all of us... except the ones who are dead.
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2008-01-20T15:15:22-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: I find it slightly funny that each time I take a piss I lose sperm, yet if I just take a few out of those billions and use them for something, the fundamentalists come out of the woodwork.
creator: Chimp
date: 2008-01-20T15:50:05-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: I want to clone supersoldiers of myself then conquer the world. ugodienowkthxworshipmelol!
creator: IronWarrior
date: 2008-01-20T17:13:32-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: IronWarrior wrote on Sun, 20 January 2008 11:13 I want to clone supersoldiers of myself then conquer the world. ugodienowkthxworshipmelol! Of you? No. Of this man perhaps.
creator: Chimp
date: 2008-01-20T18:34:04-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Blazer wrote on Fri, 18 January 2008 21:59 1. Is this murder? 2. Is it not murder because it's only 150 cells? 3. Is it murder if you kill a clone of yourself? 4. Can a blob of 150 cells have a "soul" ? 5. Would you grow a partial clone of yourself for health reasons (organ transplants)? 6. If they could grow a mindless/souless blob of meat, a partial body that just had organs, would that be okay? 1. No. 2. Yes. 3. Uhm, if developed (Second trimester), Yes. 4. No. 5. Yes. 6. If they could, sure. Something tells me that's significantly harder than cloning. Throughout history, mankind has developed many new technologies, and there hasn't been one so far that mankind has not found a way to pervert. Cloning would be no different. Does that mean we're not ready for cloning? Maybe. Does that mean it shouldn't be developed anyway? No.
creator: Dover
date: 2008-01-20T22:39:53-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Now the real question is... if you clone yourself, and you kill your clone... is it suicide?
creator: BlueThen
date: 2008-01-20T23:43:53-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: No it isn't. To commit suicide, you need to kill yourself. If you killed your clone, you only killed yourself B.
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2008-01-21T22:10:29-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: I don't think it would be possible to have a perfect clone of yourself. Maybe physically, but not mentally. For it to be exactly like you, it would have to have been raised in the exact same conditions, known the same people, and made the exact same choices you made in life.
creator: Canadacdn
date: 2008-01-22T00:23:57-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: I personally dislike everything having to do with things we weren't supposed to do to in the beginning. We weren't supposed to create machines that causes pollution, we weren't supposed to under the knife and get surgery and get transplants, we weren't supposed to be re-created in another form, like clones. Who the fuck are we to play God and do these things? If you're going to clone anything, clone our fucking planet so that when the current one dies out from the o-zone layer being completely depleted, we have somewhere else to live.
creator: Animoski
date: 2008-01-22T00:38:49-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Elite Animosity wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 19:38 I personally dislike everything having to do with things we weren't supposed to do to in the beginning. We weren't supposed to create machines that causes pollution, we weren't supposed to under the knife and get surgery and get transplants, we weren't supposed to be re-created in another form, like clones. Who the fuck are we to play God and do these things? If you're going to clone anything, clone our fucking planet so that when the current one dies out from the o-zone layer being completely depleted, we have somewhere else to live. THERE IS NO GOD FOR FUCKS SAKES. Get it? Human beings hold their repective destinies in the palm of their hands. I hold my destiny in my hand. I can either go become a murderer or become an engineer...it is my own fucking choice. No fucking "God" is gonna tell me what to do. If you really don't want to do these things, why don't you move in with the Amish? They are stuck in time driving cattlecars and horse-drawn carriages because they think like you do and are slaves of a man-written book.
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-22T00:44:26-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: You can go worship whatever the fuck you want to. We all have our beliefs and our belief systems. Who made you fucking king of all who is right? Simply expressing my feelings deserves me to get yelled at for what I believe in? I believe you are a ignorant piece of shit. I don't fully believe in A God, I believe there is one. You believe that there is no creator and that life just happened somehow, good for you, want a cookie? And no I didn't mean we shouldn't evolve, I fully agree that evolution is great, but the way we're heading is not really proper.
creator: Animoski
date: 2008-01-22T00:48:10-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: What were we supposed to do? I mean, where are you getting these "what humans weren't made to do..." stuff?
creator: BlueThen
date: 2008-01-22T01:04:03-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Elite Animosity wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 01:48 You can go worship whatever the fuck you want to. We all have our beliefs and our belief systems. Who made you fucking king of all who is right? Simply expressing my feelings deserves me to get yelled at for what I believe in? I believe you are a ignorant piece of shit. I don't fully believe in A God, I believe there is one. You believe that there is no creator and that life just happened somehow, good for you, want a cookie? And no I didn't mean we shouldn't evolve, I fully agree that evolution is great, but the way we're heading is not really proper. If you think I was yelling at you, then you are really new to the internet. Also, you are the one being ignorant by branding me as "king of all who is right." Think about it, numskull. BTW, answer Blue's question, please.
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-22T01:33:55-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: *bows* I am not worthy, you're highness.
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2008-01-22T01:41:03-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Originally Blue wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 19:04 What were we supposed to do? I mean, where are you getting these "what humans weren't made to do..." stuff? Religion voids your mind and critical thinking and keeps you in a state of constant fear and underdevelopment.
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-22T01:55:32-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: It doesn't give people fear, it gives people obedience.
creator: BlueThen
date: 2008-01-22T01:57:20-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Originally Blue wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 19:57 It doesn't give people fear, it gives people obedience. Obedience through fear. Why would people obey without have some sort of fear for the law that makes them obey in the first place?
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-22T01:58:21-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Is that a bad thing?
creator: BlueThen
date: 2008-01-22T01:58:51-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Originally Blue wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 19:58 Is that a bad thing? Absolutely yes, when it comes to religion.
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-22T02:00:36-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: So you're saying that obedience and discipline is bad?
creator: BlueThen
date: 2008-01-22T02:03:14-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Originally Blue wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 20:03 So you're saying that obedience and discipline is bad? Absolutely yes, when it comes to religion. You are more than welcome to fear and subdue youself to an imagined horror but that is YOUR ignorance and YOUR choice.
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-22T02:08:17-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: How does religion make obedience and discipline bad? It's similar, if not the same, as a parent telling a kid to don't scream or a monster will show up.
creator: BlueThen
date: 2008-01-22T02:10:07-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: It doesn't give fear, it temporarily relieves it.
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2008-01-22T02:32:47-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Originally Blue wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 20:10 How does religion make obedience and discipline bad? It's similar, if not the same, as a parent telling a kid to don't scream or a monster will show up. It replaces the the common law of the land with a "god-given" law to promote divisivness and thus further conflicts and tension. For example, to a Christian, the world is divided into believers and non-believers. And that those who do not accept Sir Jesus as their "personal Savior" are condemned to Hell. How pathetically selfish! You call that law? It's nothing more than using fear to keep people in check. Sure, it is fine with me if you and your kind choose to believe in something like that. It does keep a sort of raw peace (within yourselves) due to it crushing any type of invididual thought and exploration...but it divides humans accordingingly. R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 20:32 It doesn't give fear, it temporarily relieves it. It does both. Gives fear and then also provides a selfish solution. Definitely man-made. You think Christianity would hold if hell was proven to not exist?
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-22T04:53:13-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: I think the biggest flaw to Christianity is that according to the Church, anyone who accepts the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, they get to paradise in the afterlife. That means I can be a Christian and do a bunch of horrid things, because hey, if you don't sin, Jesus died for nothing.
creator: [NE]Fobby[GEN]
date: 2008-01-22T05:18:04-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: A foxes life is so much better.
creator: Zion
date: 2008-01-22T11:42:47-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Starbuzz wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 22:53 Originally Blue wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 20:10 How does religion make obedience and discipline bad? It's similar, if not the same, as a parent telling a kid to don't scream or a monster will show up. It replaces the the common law of the land with a "god-given" law to promote divisivness and thus further conflicts and tension. For example, to a Christian, the world is divided into believers and non-believers. And that those who do not accept Sir Jesus as their "personal Savior" are condemned to Hell. How pathetically selfish! You call that law? It's nothing more than using fear to keep people in check. Sure, it is fine with me if you and your kind choose to believe in something like that. It does keep a sort of raw peace (within yourselves) due to it crushing any type of invididual thought and exploration...but it divides humans accordingingly. You're going off topic, mate. Sure that part might be a flaw, but we're talking about how religion keeps people from murdering and stealing. The chance of hell scares me a lot more than a few days in jail.
creator: BlueThen
date: 2008-01-22T23:46:14-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Originally Blue wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 17:46 You're going off topic, mate. Sure that part might be a flaw, but we're talking about how religion keeps people from murdering and stealing. The chance of hell scares me a lot more than a few days in jail. Not all religions keep people from murdering. There are Christians who use their religion to control and supress the thoughts and feelings of others. This amounts to cruelty. There are millions of Christians in the world who believe sickness/diseases is the result of sin. What hypocrisy! Of course, I expect most Christians here to start screaming "no generalizations" but whatever happened to collective responsibility? Islam has enough clauses in it for it to intrepreted as an edict to go to war. Christianity has enough clauses in it for it to be intrepreted so much that it is used as a means to control others. Religion is not black and white. If it was, then there is a god. For example, the same "God" who brought the flood to end violence on earth guides King David in many bloody battles granting him numerous victories.
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-23T01:00:24-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: I agree with some points, but Quote: Islam has enough clauses in it for it to intrepreted as an edict to go to war. this is just a misconception. There have always been religious fanatics in every religion, period. Even atheist fanatics. Religion doesn't kill people, people do.
creator: [NE]Fobby[GEN]
date: 2008-01-23T03:03:26-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Starbuzz wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 19:00 Not all religions keep people from murdering. True, but not all religions make people murder. Starbuzz wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 19:00 There are Christians who use their religion to control and supress the thoughts and feelings of others. This amounts to cruelty. There are millions of Christians in the world who believe sickness/diseases is the result of sin. What hypocrisy! and where did you get this information from? Every member in my family is christian, and not one of them think that disease and sickness is a result of "sin." Starbuzz wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 19:00 Christianity has enough clauses in it for it to be intrepreted so much that it is used as a means to control others. Christianity has little control over my life. All it has done is teach me what is right and what is wrong. What is so bad about that?
creator: BlueThen
date: 2008-01-23T03:20:10-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Originally Blue wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 22:20 Starbuzz wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 19:00 There are Christians who use their religion to control and supress the thoughts and feelings of others. This amounts to cruelty. There are millions of Christians in the world who believe sickness/diseases is the result of sin. What hypocrisy! and where did you get this information from? Every member in my family is christian, and not one of them think that disease and sickness is a result of "sin." The Black Plague?
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2008-01-23T03:43:37-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: [NE Fobby[GEN] wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 19:03]I agree with some points, but Quote: Islam has enough clauses in it for it to intrepreted as an edict to go to war. this is just a misconception. No, it's not. Read the Qu'ran and the Hadith. The misconception is the belief that the Qu'ran ISN'T absolutely brimming with demands to kill and subjugate non-Muslims.
creator: Spoony
date: 2008-01-23T04:58:04-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: when in doubt ask the president...well Mr Bush?...they can make stem cells out of skin cells now?!...Veto!!! Drug companies profit off "treating" the ill not Curing the ill.
creator: renohol
date: 2008-01-23T05:12:46-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Originally Blue wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 21:20 Starbuzz wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 19:00 There are Christians who use their religion to control and supress the thoughts and feelings of others. This amounts to cruelty. There are millions of Christians in the world who believe sickness/diseases is the result of sin. What hypocrisy! and where did you get this information from? Every member in my family is christian, and not one of them think that disease and sickness is a result of "sin." Typical defense I exactly expected. Yes, because if your family is not doing it, then no one is doing it right? That's the best way to avoid the underlying argument because you ignore what millions of other Christians do after reading the same Bible you have. It's the same with Muslims: "Islam is definitely good because I am not terrorist." The narrow mindness forces people to NOT look into their Bibles and Korans more critically. Spoony wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 22:58 [NE Fobby[GEN] wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 19:03]I agree with some points, but Quote: Islam has enough clauses in it for it to intrepreted as an edict to go to war. this is just a misconception. No, it's not. Read the Qu'ran and the Hadith. The misconception is the belief that the Qu'ran ISN'T absolutely brimming with demands to kill and subjugate non-Muslims. Agree 100%. The orginal books of the Bible were also full of anti-Gentile doctrine. But these were conventiently banned by the Council of Carthage (a bunch of bishops in North Africa).
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-23T11:42:52-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: renohol wrote on Wed, 23 January 2008 05:12 ... Drug companies profit off "treating" the ill not Curing the ill. This is true. TBH, this isn't murder, it isn't murder if you kill your clone, nor is it suicide, because I could be a different person if I'd made several different decisions in my life. It's impossible to end up with someone who is you, both physically and mentally. CanadaCDN is right.
creator: CarrierII
date: 2008-01-23T18:01:18-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Starbuzz wrote on Wed, 23 January 2008 05:42 Originally Blue wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 21:20 Starbuzz wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 19:00 There are Christians who use their religion to control and supress the thoughts and feelings of others. This amounts to cruelty. There are millions of Christians in the world who believe sickness/diseases is the result of sin. What hypocrisy! and where did you get this information from? Every member in my family is christian, and not one of them think that disease and sickness is a result of "sin." Typical defense I exactly expected. Yes, because if your family is not doing it, then no one is doing it right? That's the best way to avoid the underlying argument because you ignore what millions of other Christians do after reading the same Bible you have. I'm symbolizing Christians I know for the general population. Most parts of my family goes to different churches. The people at their churches believe the samething they do. So how many is that? A lot, and all the people in those churches probably have families, and so on. It's common sense. Don't use the "That's a crappy argument" comback when it just gives irony a whole new definiton. Answer my question. Again, where did you get this information from?
creator: BlueThen
date: 2008-01-23T22:07:50-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Originally Blue wrote on Wed, 23 January 2008 16:07 I'm symbolizing Christians I know for the general population. General population of what country may I ask? You surely are not representing the world's population. Do you know how many types of Christians there are in America? I don't think so...which is why you made that ignorant statement. Originally Blue wrote on Wed, 23 January 2008 16:07 Most parts of my family goes to different churches. The people at their churches believe the samething they do. So how many is that? A lot, and all the people in those churches probably have families, and so on. It's common sense. America is not the only nation where there are Christians. Just look at how many denominations there are in Christianity each with a massive amount of followers across the world. So you are claiming that they think and act the same? Originally Blue wrote on Wed, 23 January 2008 16:07 Answer my question. Again, where did you get this information from? Ever heard of the Bible Belt? That's the closest place you can go in the continental United States to find such Christian whacks who believe in absolutely ridiculous things. I have been there and seen such Christians in many chruches. Why would I lie since all my arguments have a foundation on recorded history and logic? Still don't believe it do you? Your denial is pathetic. I lived in six different countries spread out over different continents. Not stayed in...I lived in. And I have seen and observed Christians in all those countries. I speak what I saw...if you don't believe, saving up for a plane ticket and getting out of your box is a nice way to start. I suggest you do a bit of research and you will realize what a giant bunch of superstitions all religions are. Thanks. Last Edit: Fixed typo
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-24T03:40:07-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Yet again, Starbuzz completely kicked someone's ass
creator: Chimp
date: 2008-01-24T12:40:07-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: No, Starbuzz is anti Christian. I haven't seen him talk bad about anyone except Christians. If you think that Christianity is a selfish religion, look at Buhddism. If you touch someone from a lower class than you, or help them, you are now impure. Therefore, you can't help anyone in a lower class. That religion is like a competition, where you are all for your self and want to get to nirvana. In that religion, you don't give a shit about anybody but your self. In Christianity, we try to do the exact opposite. You can help anyone you want and you won't go down "to a lower level", infact because you helped the person, if you spend your whole life helping people, you are more likely to become a better person. Now, it may sound selfish, because the religion is about you going to heaven, but that is why Christianity has rules. aka the ten commandments But, you could say that those are the basic rules of life, and that is true, but they didn't know that back then, so God felt like he had to tell them. It may sound just like Buddism, but unlike it, Christianity actually encourages helping other people. I hate the way you bash on Christians without regard for other religions. If you don't like Christianity, just say that. Who cares if man is flawed and needs false hope. Me, i couldn't live without religion because, then I would feel that my life is worthless and there really is no point to living. Because I really don't think that humans should live just to die 80 years later. What is the point? That is why I belive that there is something up there after we die, just waiting for us. Scientists say that what makes us different from other beings is that we can reason. That may be so, but what if the real reason we are different from animals is that we have a code set down by us that says that we must do this, this, and this, and not this to go someplace better. I don't know about you, but I'd like to think that there is someplace better than this sin ridden world. And that is…
creator: Muad Dib15
date: 2008-01-24T18:49:51-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: The many many christians I know, I'm saying, are representing the christian population. I'm not talking about the World population. Starbuzz [ELITE wrote on Wed, 23 January 2008 21:40] Originally Blue wrote on Wed, 23 January 2008 16:07 I'm symbolizing Christians I know for the general population. General population of what country may I ask? You surely are not representing the world's population. Starbuzz [ELITE wrote on Wed, 23 January 2008 21:40] Ever heard of the Bible Belt? That's the closest place you can go in the continental United States to find such Christian whacks who believe in absolutely ridiculous things. I have been there and seen such Christians in many chruches. Irony.
creator: BlueThen
date: 2008-01-24T21:11:23-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Awesome reasoning as to why you follow religion, Muad. Though some parts about me are misunderstood, you spoke straight from the heart without any ego or false pride using plain simple logic most religious people refuse to see. Good job man. For YOUR sake, I am going to tone down my rheteroic. @Blue: No.
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-25T14:54:31-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Starbuzz [ELITE wrote on Fri, 25 January 2008 08:54]] @Blue: No. I lol'ed.
creator: Chimp
date: 2008-01-25T15:09:44-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Starbuzz [ELITE wrote on Fri, 25 January 2008 07:54]Awesome reasoning as to why you follow religion, Muad. Though some parts about me are misunderstood, you spoke straight from the heart without any ego or false pride using plain simple logic most religious people refuse to see. Good job man. For YOUR sake, I am going to tone down my rheteroic. @Blue: No. Wow, I don't mean this as an insult, but I have NEVER seen someone willing to admit they use rhetoric to try and argue a point. Basic epistimology shows that rhetoric is listed as an argument devoid of reason. Way to completely demolish every single argument you've made in this thread...
creator: warranto
date: 2008-01-26T18:09:53-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: warranto wrote on Sat, 26 January 2008 12:09 Starbuzz [ELITE wrote on Fri, 25 January 2008 07:54]Awesome reasoning as to why you follow religion, Muad. Though some parts about me are misunderstood, you spoke straight from the heart without any ego or false pride using plain simple logic most religious people refuse to see. Good job man. For YOUR sake, I am going to tone down my rheteroic. @Blue: No. Wow, I don't mean this as an insult, but I have NEVER seen someone willing to admit they use rhetoric to try and argue a point. Basic epistimology shows that rhetoric is listed as an argument devoid of reason. Way to completely demolish every single argument you've made in this thread... English is not my first language so I am sorry you misintrepreted what I meant to say. I am especially weak in vocabulary. By rhetoric I meant to describe my very livid and heated logical arguments. Sorry I used the wrong word. So no, I have not "demolished" any of my arguments. Thanks. NOTE: Why not Christians here fight back too using the Bible? Instead you nitpick on vocabulary and other small worthless insults to defy the argument at hand. Thank you.
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-26T21:37:44-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: I can almost swear... Anti-Christians are making a bigger deal over the religion than Christians themselves. I mean, everywhere I see, whenever a image is posted of Jesus with a dinosaur head, Atheists start complain about how "Christians get over-offended," when really, Christians aren't really complaining, most find the images funny. What's the big deal about the religion anyways? Let us believe what we want, and we'll let you believe, or not believe, what you want. No one's forcing you to be religious, so don't try and force us to be unreligious. Get over it. Go on with your lives.
creator: BlueThen
date: 2008-01-26T23:08:15-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Originally Blue wrote on Sat, 26 January 2008 15:08 I can almost swear... Anti-Christians are making a bigger deal over the religion than Christians themselves. I mean, everywhere I see, whenever a image is posted of Jesus with a dinosaur head, Atheists start complain about how "Christians get over-offended," when really, Christians aren't really complaining, most find the images funny. What's the big deal about the religion anyways? Let us believe what we want, and we'll let you believe, or not believe, what you want. No one's forcing you to be religious, so don't try and force us to be unreligious. Get over it. Go on with your lives. http://www.hippy.com/article-191.html
creator: Chimp
date: 2008-01-27T00:36:10-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Originally Blue wrote on Sat, 26 January 2008 17:08 Let us believe what we want, and we'll let you believe, or not believe, what you want. No one's forcing you to be religious, so don't try and force us to be unreligious. Get over it. Go on with your lives. When was the last time I started a thread to specifically insult religion? Never. But when there is a situation (in the forums or real life) where there is an opportunity to debate, keeping your mouth shut is not a good idea.
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-27T01:48:31-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Starbuzz wrote on Sat, 26 January 2008 14:37 warranto wrote on Sat, 26 January 2008 12:09 Starbuzz [ELITE wrote on Fri, 25 January 2008 07:54]Awesome reasoning as to why you follow religion, Muad. Though some parts about me are misunderstood, you spoke straight from the heart without any ego or false pride using plain simple logic most religious people refuse to see. Good job man. For YOUR sake, I am going to tone down my rheteroic. @Blue: No. Wow, I don't mean this as an insult, but I have NEVER seen someone willing to admit they use rhetoric to try and argue a point. Basic epistimology shows that rhetoric is listed as an argument devoid of reason. Way to completely demolish every single argument you've made in this thread... English is not my first language so I am sorry you misintrepreted what I meant to say. I am especially weak in vocabulary. By rhetoric I meant to describe my very livid and heated logical arguments. Sorry I used the wrong word. So no, I have not "demolished" any of my arguments. Thanks. NOTE: Why not Christians here fight back too using the Bible? Instead you nitpick on vocabulary and other small worthless insults to defy the argument at hand. Thank you. Ah, well it was grossly the wrong word to use. I'm not nitpicking on vocabulary, nor did I "misinterpret" what you said, you just used a word that means the complete opposite of the context you used it in. It's like me saying "you're stupid" or "no", then replying that I actually meant "you're smart" or "yes", and it was you who misinterpreted what I said because I just used the wrong word. Specific definition of rhetoric: Language that is elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous:
creator: warranto
date: 2008-01-28T15:57:22-00:00

Re: Cloning/Murder
type: item
description: Yes, it was the wrong word and it was my mistake on using a word I generally thought described a "very heated and livid argument."
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2008-01-28T19:00:18-00:00