Command and Conquer: Renegade Official Forums - RDF feed
type: channel
description: C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
items: If a tree falls in the forest...
items: Re: If a tree falls in the forest...

If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it... does it make a sound? I been having a pretty heated discussion about this on another forum. The person I am arguing says that it has to make sound waves, so it has to make sound. But my opinion is that just because there are sound waves doesn't mean there is a sound. A sound wave is how a sound travels, the sound is made when someone is there to receive the sound. So with nothing there to receive the sound, I say it doesn't make a sound. But what do you guys think?
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2007-10-05T01:36:17-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Sound sound1 1. the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibrations transmitted through the air or other medium. So thus, no... it does not make a sound... by the first definition. The second definition: 2. mechanical vibrations transmitted through an elastic medium, traveling in air at a speed of approximately 1087 ft. (331 m) per second at sea level. So thus, yes... It usually depends on how you would define a sound. Conclusion: Yes & No.
creator: BlueThen
date: 2007-10-05T01:50:07-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Just because no person is around does not mean that a sound is not heard. Unless the tree falls also in a forest that lacks any form of animal life, the sound is still heard by something.
creator: NukeIt15
date: 2007-10-05T01:51:15-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: NukeIt15 wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 20:51 Just because no person is around does not mean that a sound is not heard. Unless the tree falls also in a forest that lacks any form of animal life, the sound is still heard by something. No it's obvious. Body 1. the physical structure and material substance of an animal or plant, living or dead. So thus, nobody... meaning no living thing.
creator: BlueThen
date: 2007-10-05T01:54:06-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: It still makes a sound, but no one can hear it. There, topic over.
creator: Renerage
date: 2007-10-05T02:14:55-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: What a gay thread lol...of course the damned tree makes a sound! Just because there were no receptors (humans) around to hear it does not mean the tree fell silently. Topic over, +1 post and I AM COLONEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2007-10-05T02:19:29-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Put up something that is a non-animate object. Like a microphone. Let the tree fall, while your 20394803924 miles away, Go back a few weeks later, make sure your not anywhere near it, Re-listen to the recording- ZOMGS, IT MADE A SOUND!!!! HIERACY!
creator: Renerage
date: 2007-10-05T02:21:08-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Of course, it makes a sound. If it's in a forest, the sound waves are being received by other plant matter around it, whether it be brush or other trees. After all, it is in a FOREST, right?
creator: cheesesoda
date: 2007-10-05T02:22:34-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: What if the person had a stealth suit? ZOMGS HAX!
creator: Renerage
date: 2007-10-05T02:30:15-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Renerage wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 21:21 Put up something that is a non-animate object. Like a microphone. Let the tree fall, while your 20394803924 miles away, Go back a few weeks later, make sure your not anywhere near it, Re-listen to the recording- ZOMGS, IT MADE A SOUND!!!! HIERACY! You'd be listening to a duplicate of the sound, but not the sound itself. Quote: It still makes a sound, but no one can hear it. There, topic over. Did you read my first post in the topic?
creator: BlueThen
date: 2007-10-05T02:39:49-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: BlueThen wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:39 You'd be listening to a duplicate of the sound, but not the sound itself. If it's a duplication, isn't that proof that an original exists? If I make a copy of an image, the duplication is proof that an original existed. You can't duplicate something if it never existed. If you create a new MP3, it's not a duplication. It's the original MP3 that you created. If someone else has a COPY (or 'duplication') of your MP3, then it proves there was an original, else it wouldn't exist. The question isn't whether someone HEARS the sound that it makes, but DOES it make a sound? If we have a duplication, then deductive reasoning proves that it does, indeed, make a sound.
creator: cheesesoda
date: 2007-10-05T02:56:20-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:56 BlueThen wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:39 You'd be listening to a duplicate of the sound, but not the sound itself. If it's a duplication, isn't that proof that an original exists? If I make a copy of an image, the duplication is proof that an original existed. You can't duplicate something if it never existed. If you create a new MP3, it's not a duplication. It's the original MP3 that you created. If someone else has a COPY (or 'duplication') of your MP3, then it proves there was an original, else it wouldn't exist. The question isn't whether someone HEARS the sound that it makes, but DOES it make a sound? If we have a duplication, then deductive reasoning proves that it does, indeed, make a sound. Not by bluethen's logic. How about this one smarty pants- If you have a DEAF guy in the room, and you scream in his face. Do you still make a sound?
creator: Renerage
date: 2007-10-05T03:01:21-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Renerage wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 23:01 cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:56 BlueThen wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:39 You'd be listening to a duplicate of the sound, but not the sound itself. If it's a duplication, isn't that proof that an original exists? If I make a copy of an image, the duplication is proof that an original existed. You can't duplicate something if it never existed. If you create a new MP3, it's not a duplication. It's the original MP3 that you created. If someone else has a COPY (or 'duplication') of your MP3, then it proves there was an original, else it wouldn't exist. The question isn't whether someone HEARS the sound that it makes, but DOES it make a sound? If we have a duplication, then deductive reasoning proves that it does, indeed, make a sound. Not by bluethen's logic. How about this one smarty pants- If you have a DEAF guy in the room, and you scream in his face. Do you still make a sound? Pfft, even by his logic I win. The "organs of hearing" can be what receives the soundwaves on the recorder. As for your question... yes, it makes a sound. Just because the brain doesn't receive any signals from the ears doesn't mean that the ears aren't receiving the sound.
creator: cheesesoda
date: 2007-10-05T03:05:49-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: There's also Elves and leprechauns in the forest. It's just that when anyone comes they hide and you can't find them, whatsoever. But whne nothing is around, they're deffinatly there.
creator: bisen11
date: 2007-10-05T03:08:54-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:05 Renerage wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 23:01 cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:56 BlueThen wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:39 You'd be listening to a duplicate of the sound, but not the sound itself. If it's a duplication, isn't that proof that an original exists? If I make a copy of an image, the duplication is proof that an original existed. You can't duplicate something if it never existed. If you create a new MP3, it's not a duplication. It's the original MP3 that you created. If someone else has a COPY (or 'duplication') of your MP3, then it proves there was an original, else it wouldn't exist. The question isn't whether someone HEARS the sound that it makes, but DOES it make a sound? If we have a duplication, then deductive reasoning proves that it does, indeed, make a sound. Not by bluethen's logic. How about this one smarty pants- If you have a DEAF guy in the room, and you scream in his face. Do you still make a sound? Pfft, even by his logic I win. The "organs of hearing" can be what receives the soundwaves on the recorder. As for your question... yes, it makes a sound. Just because the brain doesn't receive any signals from the ears doesn't mean that the ears aren't receiving the sound. But you are not listening to the tree itself. You are listening to the recorder. An addition to that, you just messed up the whole question, the question was: If a tree falls in a forest, and no one hears it, does it make a sound? You basically ignored the part of "no one hears it" by saying that you record it and hear it later.
creator: BlueThen
date: 2007-10-05T03:09:35-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: BlueThen wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 23:09 cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:05 Renerage wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 23:01 cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:56 BlueThen wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:39 You'd be listening to a duplicate of the sound, but not the sound itself. If it's a duplication, isn't that proof that an original exists? If I make a copy of an image, the duplication is proof that an original existed. You can't duplicate something if it never existed. If you create a new MP3, it's not a duplication. It's the original MP3 that you created. If someone else has a COPY (or 'duplication') of your MP3, then it proves there was an original, else it wouldn't exist. The question isn't whether someone HEARS the sound that it makes, but DOES it make a sound? If we have a duplication, then deductive reasoning proves that it does, indeed, make a sound. Not by bluethen's logic. How about this one smarty pants- If you have a DEAF guy in the room, and you scream in his face. Do you still make a sound? Pfft, even by his logic I win. The "organs of hearing" can be what receives the soundwaves on the recorder. As for your question... yes, it makes a sound. Just because the brain doesn't receive any signals from the ears doesn't mean that the ears aren't receiving the sound. But you are not listening to the tree itself. You are listening to the recorder. An addition to that, you just messed up the whole question, the question was: If a tree falls in a forest, and no one hears it, does it make a sound? You basically ignored the part of "no one hears it" by saying that you record it and hear it later. I'm sorry, but it's stupid to think that sound is defined correctly as that first definition you gave. Sound is energy, whether or not it's received by hearing organs. As the MythBusters proved, sound CAN break glass. Glass does not have any organs, especially organs for hearing. Yet, if everybody left the building, the glass would still be broken…
creator: cheesesoda
date: 2007-10-05T03:16:07-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Off topic a bit but... Sound creates waves, and that's because the molecules bounce off of each other. If they are bouncing off of each other and rubbing in on each other as they go along... wouldn't sound create heat? and heat can be turned into electricity... thus, if we have some loudmouths like trooprm02, then we could power a lightbulb!
creator: BlueThen
date: 2007-10-05T03:20:06-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: I agree with a lot of things here, but something that most of you aren't realizing... A sound wave itself is how a sound travels from one point to another. However, if nothing hears the sound, there IS no sound. Your not thinking outside of the box here. Your all to busy thinking of what a tree would in fact sound like if it fell. But the thing is, you wouldn't be hearing any tree fall because you nor anything else is there to hear it. So therefore, the sound wave is going out so far that it dissipates before anyone can hear it, and thus there is no sound to be heard! Just because the sound wave is there doesn't mean that is going to make a sound. It all depends on if something is there to hear it or not. Think of it this way: A sound can't exist if it cannot be heard. For example, say your def. To you, sound doesn't exist. It may be all around, but specifically to you, sound doesn't exist.
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2007-10-05T03:39:42-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: if a tree falls in a forest is bluethen still a cheater?
creator: mrpirate
date: 2007-10-05T04:01:20-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Almost the oldest argument ever. There are two schools of thought: 1. A sound is not a sound unless it is heard by something. Sound waves themselves are not a sound. Once the waves strike something that vibrates and is converted to electrical signals to a brain, then there is a "sound". If there is nobody there to convert the soundwaves, there was no sound. The tree fell, there was cause, but no effect. 2. Sound waves do not require physical/electrical conversion to be classified as a sound. The tree falling definitely disturbs the air, creating sound waves. It does not matter that there was nobody there to say "hey I hear I sound", the sound waves are still generated and propogate outward. Sound waves do not operate on the quantum level, the tree fell, it made a sound, there was nobody to hear it, simple as that.
creator: Blazer
date: 2007-10-05T04:12:46-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: razorblade001 wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 23:39 So therefore, the sound wave is going out so far that it dissipates before anyone can hear it, and thus there is no sound to be heard! Saying that means you admit to there being sound... just not one heard by human ears. razorblade001 Just because the sound wave is there doesn't mean that is going to make a sound. Just because it can't be heard by humans doesn't mean it doesn't make a sound. Dogs can hear higher frequencies than humans can, but would you dare say that it's not a sound because WE can't hear it? razorblade001 Think of it this way: A sound can't exist if it cannot be heard. For example, say your def. To you, sound doesn't exist. It may be all around, but specifically to you, sound doesn't exist. So a spirit can't exist because it cannot be seen? So atoms didn't exist until they were seen microscopically? Other galaxies didn't exist until they were seen telescopically? Just because circumstantial situations prevent the said object to be seen/heard doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Just because, to you, seeing is believing doesn't mean that a god or gods cannot exist. It's a ludicrous assumption.
creator: cheesesoda
date: 2007-10-05T04:54:08-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: It doesn't matter if a person is or isn't around, IT WILL STILL MAKE A SOUND! We do have animals on this planet, if Wikipedia is to be believed.
creator: Ryu
date: 2007-10-05T07:25:44-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Cheesesoda, your not getting what I said... of course all that other stuff would still exist (according to most logic anyway) But a sound is different. I'm talking about using the information in the question, you don't hear the sound, the sound doesn't happen. I'm betting most people here are probably thinking "Ok, so since no one was around to hear it, if I just imagine what it was like to be there and relate it to the sound of a tree falling, of course it made a sound" If anyone is thinking like that, your wrong. Your not there, you can't hear it if your not there. The tree falls down, causing soundwaves to spread out. However, nothing is within the range of the sound waves that are going to hear the sound before it dissipates. If your not in range, you don't here it. There is nothing there to convert the actual wave into a readable sound. Think of it like an empty bus. The bus still goes to the destination, but without anyone on the bus, no one gets to that destination. Edit: Why do people keep bringing up "well animals live in a forest" Cause if your bringing that up, then you don't understand the question. The question says "if NO ONE IS AROUND to hear it" "No one" means any being that can hear a sound. Since when does "No one" specifically mean "No human?"
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2007-10-05T11:09:28-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: The question is: "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?" Yes. The question isn't "If a tree falls in the forest, and you're not there, Does it still make a sound?" No, you don't hear it, But it still makes a sound.
creator: Ryu
date: 2007-10-05T11:24:20-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: There is no way we can find out, so we should stop pondering.
creator: nopol10
date: 2007-10-05T12:15:25-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: PSEUDO PHILOSOPHY IS NOT COOL.
creator: Herr Surth
date: 2007-10-05T12:28:27-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: razorblade001 wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 07:09 Cheesesoda, your not getting what I said... of course all that other stuff would still exist (according to most logic anyway) But a sound is different. I'm talking about using the information in the question, you don't hear the sound, the sound doesn't happen. I'm betting most people here are probably thinking "Ok, so since no one was around to hear it, if I just imagine what it was like to be there and relate it to the sound of a tree falling, of course it made a sound" If anyone is thinking like that, your wrong. Your not there, you can't hear it if your not there. The tree falls down, causing soundwaves to spread out. However, nothing is within the range of the sound waves that are going to hear the sound before it dissipates. If your not in range, you don't here it. There is nothing there to convert the actual wave into a readable sound. Think of it like an empty bus. The bus still goes to the destination, but without anyone on the bus, no one gets to that destination. Edit: Why do people keep bringing up "well animals live in a forest" Cause if your bringing that up, then you don't understand the question. The question says "if NO ONE IS AROUND to hear it" "No one" means any being that can hear a sound. Since when does "No one" specifically mean "No human?" Okay, so let's change the question to something parallel to it: If you blow a dog whistle, and no dog is around to hear it, are you still making a sound?
creator: cheesesoda
date: 2007-10-05T12:29:18-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: cheesesoda wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 08:29 razorblade001 wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 07:09 Cheesesoda, your not getting what I said... of course all that other stuff would still exist (according to most logic anyway) But a sound is different. I'm talking about using the information in the question, you don't hear the sound, the sound doesn't happen. I'm betting most people here are probably thinking "Ok, so since no one was around to hear it, if I just imagine what it was like to be there and relate it to the sound of a tree falling, of course it made a sound" If anyone is thinking like that, your wrong. Your not there, you can't hear it if your not there. The tree falls down, causing soundwaves to spread out. However, nothing is within the range of the sound waves that are going to hear the sound before it dissipates. If your not in range, you don't here it. There is nothing there to convert the actual wave into a readable sound. Think of it like an empty bus. The bus still goes to the destination, but without anyone on the bus, no one gets to that destination. Edit: Why do people keep bringing up "well animals live in a forest" Cause if your bringing that up, then you don't understand the question. The question says "if NO ONE IS AROUND to hear it" "No one" means any being that can hear a sound. Since when does "No one" specifically mean "No human?" Okay, so let's change the question to something parallel to it: If you blow a dog whistle, and no dog is around to hear it, are you still making a sound? Yes because there are some dog wisles that people can hear, so if you blow that kind of whisle and no dog is around but a person is, then that person can hear it and then they have heard that wistle.
creator: The Elite Officer
date: 2007-10-05T16:55:03-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: whistle! whistle! whistle!
creator: Herr Surth
date: 2007-10-05T16:57:53-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Surth wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 12:57 whistle! whistle! whistle! Do you hear something??????
creator: The Elite Officer
date: 2007-10-05T16:59:08-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: So if you have to hear it for it to be a sound what happens if I leave a audio recording device in the woods? Then I run away and after I'm gone the tree falls (say 1:46pm). Does that mean that when I listen to the device later (say 5:13) the tree makes the sound then at 5:13 and not 1:46pm?
creator: luv2pb
date: 2007-10-05T17:09:59-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: cheesesoda wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 08:29 Okay, so let's change the question to something parallel to it: If you blow a dog whistle, and no dog is around to hear it, are you still making a sound? Yes it makes a sound. Weather we actually hear it nor not, the sound is there. It is just at a frequency that most people can't hear. The difference is though, our brain or anything that can hear a sound's brain is receiving those soundwaves. Weather or not they actually hear the sound, there is still sound. The difference is with the original question, there is nothing there to receive the sound from the soundwaves and thus nothing to project the sound onto. If the sound isn't projected onto anything, there is no sound. Here is another example. Your in a field during the day. The sun is beating down lighting up the entire field. You have with you a wooden board, and a flashlight. If you turn on the flashlight and point it at the wooden board, no matter how light it is outside, you will see the light reflect off of the board. However, if you take the board away and flash the flashlight into the open air, you will not see the light. Because there is nothing there that can reflect the lesser light of the flashlight over the natural sunlight coming down. Therefore you don't see any light coming from the flash light. Understand?
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2007-10-05T18:52:24-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: razorblade001 The difference is with the original question, there is nothing there to receive the sound from the soundwaves and thus nothing to project the sound onto. If the sound isn't projected onto anything, there is no sound. Correct me if I'm wrong, but our atmosphere is filled with molecules, correct? Oxygen, Carbon Dioxide, Nitrogen, etc... If I'm correct in saying that, then the atmosphere is filled with atoms. Atoms have mass. Thus, they are matter. THUS, the sound DOES, indeed, get projected onto these atoms. How else does sound travel, if not through matter?
creator: cheesesoda
date: 2007-10-05T19:07:55-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: [quote title=razorblade001 wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 19:52] cheesesoda wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 08:29 However, if you take the board away and flash the flashlight into the open air, you will not see the light. Because there is nothing there that can reflect the lesser light of the flashlight over the natural sunlight coming down. Therefore you don't see any light coming from the flash light. Understand? Well, that's depends on where you point the flashlight. If you point it into your face, then you see the light. If you point it away from you, you will not. If you pointed the flashlight away from you when it was foggy, you would see the light reflecting from the fog. As for the sound, when the tree hits the floor it creates sound, period. That sound is converted into waves that travel through earth and air. weather something detects those waves doesn't matter, they were still created and thus it made a sound.
creator: jnz
date: 2007-10-05T19:12:50-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Schrödinger's cat is dead.
creator: z310
date: 2007-10-06T00:21:53-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: actually the question really should be if a man speaks and no woman is around to hear him is he still wrong?
creator: DarkKnight
date: 2007-10-06T00:22:01-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Darkknight wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 19:22 actually the question really should be if a man speaks and no woman is around to hear him is he still wrong? The answer to that question is yes unless no other woman exists on the planet he occupies
creator: Jecht
date: 2007-10-06T03:20:43-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: If an atom of sodium collides with an atom of chlorine, but only a handful of people in the world can see it, is there no salt other than on the plate of an electron microscope?
creator: Jonty
date: 2007-10-06T07:04:32-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: GAH! Everyone is so think headed... no one is understanding what I am saying...
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2007-10-06T13:23:20-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Thats because what you say is plain stupid. And this isnt Schroedingers Cat btw.
creator: Herr Surth
date: 2007-10-06T13:26:13-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: No it is cause no one is understanding what I am saying. I'm thinking it is too "outside the box" for people to understand...
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2007-10-06T13:55:47-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: ok.
creator: Herr Surth
date: 2007-10-06T13:59:54-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: razorblade001 wrote on Sat, 06 October 2007 09:55 No it is cause no one is understanding what I am saying. I'm thinking it is too "outside the box" for people to understand... No, my logic is just too much for you. Just because you don't witness it doesn't mean that it can't possibly exist. It's just pure ignorance to say that something can't exist because you didn't witness it. It's like some idiot Christian saying the Big Bang didn't happen because they didn't witness it, or some Atheist saying that the Creation didn't happen because they didn't witness it.
creator: cheesesoda
date: 2007-10-06T19:53:41-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: What you just explained is not what I been explaining. Therefor you don't understand what I am saying.. But you are still wrong with that theory.. well not "wrong" but it is being looked into. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/design.shtml http://quasar.as.utexas.edu/anthropic.html http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-U S:official&hs=6ug&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1& amp;q=anthropic+principle&spell=1
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2007-10-07T02:57:51-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Surth wrote on Sat, 06 October 2007 09:26 And this isnt Schroedingers Cat btw. Things may change when no observer is present. Same idea.
creator: z310
date: 2007-10-07T21:02:34-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Quote:If a tree falls in a forest, and no one hears it, does it make a sound? Its obvious. The answer is yes. It like: Are there life in other parts of the world, if you cant see them? As far as I know, in Africa, Europe, Asia, Oceania (sp?) and the rest of South-America, Central America and America there is life. Despite the fact that I can't be everywhere, there is life in the rest of the world. Then its another yes, and this reply can be used for replying the other question. What do you think? Is the same discussion or not? Regards GeneralCF
creator: GeneralCF
date: 2007-10-07T23:59:11-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Hearing isn't seeing. I said "If no one is around to hear it" That means no living thing is there to hear it. Being able to see something that is microscopic has nothing to do with the question. They are living, therefore they can't be in the area, or else your answering some complete other question.
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2007-10-08T01:09:47-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: razorblade001 wrote on Sun, 07 October 2007 21:09 Hearing isn't seeing. I said "If no one is around to hear it" I pretty sure that cliché question doesn't mean what you're getting at. You should of specified what you meant at the beginning. Ambiguously, I'm sure it just refers to if no animal is around.
creator: z310
date: 2007-10-08T02:52:52-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: razorblade001 wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 14:52 cheesesoda wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 08:29 Okay, so let's change the question to something parallel to it: If you blow a dog whistle, and no dog is around to hear it, are you still making a sound? Yes it makes a sound. Weather we actually hear it nor not, the sound is there. It is just at a frequency that most people can't hear. The difference is though, our brain or anything that can hear a sound's brain is receiving those soundwaves. Weather or not they actually hear the sound, there is still sound. The difference is with the original question, there is nothing there to receive the sound from the soundwaves and thus nothing to project the sound onto. If the sound isn't projected onto anything, there is no sound. Here is another example. Your in a field during the day. The sun is beating down lighting up the entire field. You have with you a wooden board, and a flashlight. If you turn on the flashlight and point it at the wooden board, no matter how light it is outside, you will see the light reflect off of the board. However, if you take the board away and flash the flashlight into the open air, you will not see the light. Because there is nothing there that can reflect the lesser light of the flashlight over the natural sunlight coming down. Therefore you don't see any light coming from the flash light. Understand? Nailed it.
creator: The Elite Officer
date: 2007-10-08T15:53:02-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: The Elite Officer wrote on Mon, 08 October 2007 11:53 razorblade001 wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 14:52 cheesesoda wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 08:29 Okay, so let's change the question to something parallel to it: If you blow a dog whistle, and no dog is around to hear it, are you still making a sound? Yes it makes a sound. Weather we actually hear it nor not, the sound is there. It is just at a frequency that most people can't hear. The difference is though, our brain or anything that can hear a sound's brain is receiving those soundwaves. Weather or not they actually hear the sound, there is still sound. The difference is with the original question, there is nothing there to receive the sound from the soundwaves and thus nothing to project the sound onto. If the sound isn't projected onto anything, there is no sound. Here is another example. Your in a field during the day. The sun is beating down lighting up the entire field. You have with you a wooden board, and a flashlight. If you turn on the flashlight and point it at the wooden board, no matter how light it is outside, you will see the light reflect off of the board. However, if you take the board away and flash the flashlight into the open air, you will not see the light. Because there is nothing there that can reflect the lesser light of the flashlight over the natural sunlight coming down. Therefore you don't see any light coming from the flash light. Understand? Nailed it. No he didnt. He brought objects into it. The light is still there, our eyes just cant see it. Heres a question- Smart one- You have night heat vision goggles on, during the day, you light your light into the sky- An powerful noe, not a dinky flash light. Other then the yellow/orange you see around you, you will see a dark red beam of light. BUT ZOMGZ HACKS THE LIGHTS NOT THERE You people need to get off this arguement, Why do you people think that jsut because we dont see it/hear it it doesnt happen? Thats the most illogical excuse I'v…
creator: Renerage
date: 2007-10-08T23:39:18-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Exactly...pointless speculation about some irrelavent bullshit.
creator: Starbuzz
date: 2007-10-09T00:41:35-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Who cares?
creator: Matix101
date: 2007-10-09T00:42:34-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Renerage wrote on Mon, 08 October 2007 18:39 Why do you people think that jsut because we dont see it/hear it it doesnt happen? Thats the most illogical excuse I've EVER heard. Some of you, are making yourselves look stupid. In my theory, I used the definition to back it up. A sound is vibrations taken from the organs and such. Though there was another one said vibrations through the air. Again, I answered yes and no.
creator: BlueThen
date: 2007-10-09T00:43:03-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Renerage wrote on Mon, 08 October 2007 19:39 No he didnt. He brought objects into it. The light is still there, our eyes just cant see it. Heres a question- Smart one- You have night heat vision goggles on, during the day, you light your light into the sky- An powerful noe, not a dinky flash light. Other then the yellow/orange you see around you, you will see a dark red beam of light. BUT ZOMGZ HACKS THE LIGHTS NOT THERE You people need to get off this arguement, Why do you people think that jsut because we dont see it/hear it it doesnt happen? Thats the most illogical excuse I've EVER heard. Some of you, are making yourselves look stupid. Lol dude, what do you think the point of my example was? That if we can't see it, it isn't there? No, the point of my example is that even though we can't see it, it IS there. Way to restate my example through a much more confusing one... lol. But anyway, lets bring about a close to this argument. The answer is not "Yes" it isn't "No" the answer is simply unknown. No matter how you define sound. Either as receiving the sensation of a sound wave and actually hearing something. Or sound being the actual sound wave itself. The answer is unknown because since no one is there, unlike everywhere else, there is no way to prove that a sound wave even was created! Think about it. When sound waves where discovered, and from then on observed, there was always at least one living thing that can perceive sound present. So whose to say that if there isn't any one/thing present at the time of the incident that is supposed to send out a sound wave, that a sound wave would even happen. There is no way to experiment and test the theory, and there is no way to prove one occurred or one didn't occur. You can use all the logic you want, but when it comes down to it, you just cannot prove that a sound wave even was created. Thus the answer to the question is simply "Unknown"
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2007-10-09T02:59:10-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Whether im with you, or not, The point is- The sound is there, the light it there. We just may not see/hear it to consider it there.
creator: Renerage
date: 2007-10-09T05:20:44-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: I don't get why you keep telling me that. I already said that before... See I did say it: Yes it makes a sound. Weather we actually hear it nor not, the sound is there. It is just at a frequency that most people can't hear. The difference is though, our brain or anything that can hear a sound's brain is receiving those soundwaves. Weather or not they actually hear the sound, there is still sound.
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2007-10-09T05:35:46-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: But then the arguement- Does it make a sound? Makes no sence. We dont need to hear sound for it to happen.
creator: Renerage
date: 2007-10-09T05:49:36-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Jecht wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 22:20 Darkknight wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 19:22 actually the question really should be if a man speaks and no woman is around to hear him is he still wrong? The answer to that question is yes unless no other woman exists on the planet he occupies we should debate this would be more fun
creator: DarkKnight
date: 2007-10-09T23:57:39-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: I don't believe so. I think that as long as no woman hears it, he isn't wrong. Lol
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2007-10-10T04:27:50-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: There is only one way to find out: Put a tap recorder in a forest, let it record, after a tree just happens to fall down come back and replay the tap. As there was no one around if there is a sound on the tape that means there was a sound. I have yet to test this but it should work
creator: Jerad2142
date: 2007-10-17T00:56:55-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: you shouldnt be knocking down trees
creator: Rocko
date: 2007-10-17T05:08:27-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: Rocko wrote on Tue, 16 October 2007 23:08 you shouldnt be knocking down trees Knocking down? I was thinking something more along the lines of starting a fire. LOL, just kidding.
creator: Jerad2142
date: 2007-10-17T16:44:56-00:00

Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
type: item
description: No, if you put a tape recorder there, someone will eventually hear it, and that voids the question. You can put a tap recorder there... but... your not allowed to listen to what's on the tape.
creator: R315r4z0r
date: 2007-10-17T19:16:13-00:00