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I was browsing the internet the other day and found a big text on the possibility of life on earth. I can't post the source, since i can't find the link anymore. So lets start. We are about 2/3 from the center of our galaxy. If we were too close, the gravity from other stars would pull our solar system apart and we would be toast. To far away and the elements we need to survive would not be present, we would be too far away from stars who are making them. Our galaxy is middle-aged, too young and the elements we need to live would not be present. They would not be made yet. Too old and it would be made of red-giants and they're no good for life. The earth sits on an orbit that's "just right" for life. This window, would be the width of a piece of paper if the sun was the size of a football. The earth has a big moon, which holds the earth on a nice tilt. Without the moon, the earth would cool in places to -100 and heat up in places to +200 degrees C. The earth is spinning at a nice speed too, if it was just an hour longer we would die. If it was an hour shorter, we would also die. This is because places wouldn't receive enough heat from the sun or places would receive too much. We have Jupiter, without Jupiter, the earth would be obliterated by asteroids and comets. Our sun is medium sized, if out sun was too big, the earth would have to be too far away to stay in orbit. If it was too small the earth would have to be too close. The earth was hit by a comet at it's creation which contained the amino acids essential for life. This is aimed at atheists and not people who believe that "god" put us here. Don't post about religions please.
I believe there are other life forms. But I believe that the universe we live in, was created for humans. The Universe we live in, exists because we live in it, so to speak.
And remember: Everything is perfectly aligned and provided and statistically improbable for life to exist to such a ridiculous degree to be an accident. But you can't mention God doing it! That would be impossible.... To adress your question: Hard to know. The bible doesn't talk about it other than a vage reference here: John 10:16 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. It has been hotly debated that this could refer to extraterrestrial life or just be a reference to the gentiles outside of isreal. It seems unlikely the expanse is reserved solely for us
It isn't reserved for us, life itself EXISTS for us.... in this universe anyway.
I don't get the poll. The topic is "Are we alone," so if I vote yes... would that mean, we are alone? But the poll title is "Alien Life," so if I vote yes, would that mean that I think that aliens exist? o.O I honestly believe that aliens exist. Though, most likely never visited us, and most likely isn't as advanced as we'd assume. Quote: The earth is spinning at a nice speed too, if it was just an hour longer we would die. If it was an hour shorter, we would also die. This is because places wouldn't receive enough heat from the sun or places would receive too much. In another television show, it said that the average day used to last about 12 hours. But slowed down gradually to 24. So I don't know if that's true or not... Quote: Too old and it would be made of red-giants and they're no good for life. After the big stars explode, the remains usually reform into other stars/planets. Quote: The earth was hit by a comet at it's creation which contained the amino acids essential for life. That was just a theory. There are others like we started from the ocean and evolved from that.
Your poll is confusing, which question is it? Are we alone? yes/no or Alien life? yes/no
Define life? If you include microbs, ... then I'd say yes. If you mean developed species like humans, then I'm less sure.
Goztow wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 15:29 Define life? If you include microbs, ... then I'd say yes. If you mean developed species like humans, then I'm less sure. My definition of life is: Anything that reproduces.
Doesn't a computer virus reproduce?
Goztow wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 15:33 Doesn't a computer virus reproduce? Damn you... then um... reproduces AND consumes energy
BlueThen wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 16:42 Goztow wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 15:33 Doesn't a computer virus reproduce? Damn you... then um... reproduces AND consumes energy How about organically reproduces?
I stand by Dave Barry's definition: Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.
There'd have to be alien life outside of Earth. How else could you explain the existence of David Lee Roth?
nikki6ixx wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 16:36 There'd have to be alien life outside of Earth. How else could you explain the existence of David Lee Roth? Quoted for the truth of the matter. There is no other explanation for either Dave or Boy George
I believe the universe is WAY too fucking big for there NOT to be some other species somewhere in it. Whether or not we've made contact with them or vice versa is debatable. It seems there exists a reasonable probability that the conditions that make Earth habitable by living beings could also exist on some other rock spinning around one of the other billions of stars out there. But, I am glad that you are interested in the possibility of life on Earth.
Crimson wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 17:35 I believe the universe is WAY too fucking big for there NOT to be some other species somewhere in it. Whether or not we've made contact with them or vice versa is debatable. It seems there exists a reasonable probability that the conditions that make Earth habitable by living beings could also exist on some other rock spinning around one of the other billions of stars out there. But, I am glad that you are interested in the possibility of life on Earth. QFT. oh right.. My speech.. If we're here and alive, There must be others like us or different but still 'smart' like us somewhere in the universe.. Donate to NASA so they can find them, they might have super cute kittens!
KIRBY-098 wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 14:01 And remember: Everything is perfectly aligned and provided and statistically improbable for life to exist to such a ridiculous degree to be an accident. But you can't mention God doing it! That would be impossible.... To adress your question: Hard to know. The bible doesn't talk about it other than a vage reference here: John 10:16 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. It has been hotly debated that this could refer to extraterrestrial life or just be a reference to the gentiles outside of isreal. It seems unlikely the expanse is reserved solely for us The possibility that god created the universe does not prove that the one you know from your magic book exists as you think he does.
BlueThen wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 21:27 Quote: Too old and it would be made of red-giants and they're no good for life. After the big stars explode, the remains usually reform into other stars/planets. No, they don't. They form nebula and stars/planets are made inside that. Our nearest star excluding our sun is 8 million light years away (or 8 light years away, i forget) if that exploded, we're toast. BlueThen wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 21:27 Quote: The earth was hit by a comet at it's creation which contained the amino acids essential for life. That was just a theory. There are others like we started from the ocean and evolved from that. I don't mean evolution. Amino acids are protein, what we are made of. The question is "are we alone?" and the subject is: "alien life". can't see how anyone got confused at that :S
RoShamBo wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 18:44 The question is "are we alone?" and the subject is: "alien life". can't see how anyone got confused at that :S The poll said "alien life."
Well a good way to think about it is like this: Instead of saying "If there are alien life forms out there, then how come they haven't contacted us yet?" You should think back and reword it to: "Why haven't we gone out and made contact with them?" Because we don't know if they exist, and even if we did, how would we get to them? Now can't you say the same thing vis versa?
KIRBY-098 wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 14:01 And remember: Everything is perfectly aligned and provided and statistically improbable for life to exist to such a ridiculous degree to be an accident. But you can't mention God doing it! That would be impossible.... I've always loved that. I'd love to take the odds evolutionist put on us being here all by accident and play them in vegas I'd be so damn wealthy lol. I'm a Christian who believes their could be life somewhere else. Why not? Bible never said we are the only ones.
Also, there is one more thing that hasn't been considered yet. Do you notice that all those facts posted in the first post are facts based on sustaining human life. Well, if we don't take into account the ones that would destroy the planet or allow life support for any form of life, than we can just say that humans could of evolved differently to sustain the different environment of the earth. So we could of turned out into a species that could of been water based, for all we know.
Darkknight wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 19:49 I'm a Christian who believes their could be life somewhere else. Why not? Bible never said we are the only ones. Bible never said we weren't either.
In my opinion, of course there is life elsewhere. Intelligent life? No. I'd say single celled organisms. Nothing more.
Of all the billions of planets orbiting billions of stars in millions of galaxies... if life exists anywhere (and we can fairly assume that it does ), the odds against there being life elsewhere as well are absurdly low. Somewhere just by pure, dumb luck (or design, if you'd rather have it that way), there must be at least several hundred thousand more planets orbiting stars like our sun at exactly the right distance, in exactly the right place in their respective galaxies, with massive planets like Jupiter to gobble up all the 'roids. Out of all those many, there must be some on which the proper atmospheric conditions and lunar counterbalance exits in order to make life possible. Honestly, the thought of there not being other life out there- and intelligent life, at that, given how long the universe has been around- is utterly incomprehensible to me.
Rocko wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 19:27 The possibility that god created the universe does not prove that the one you know from your magic book exists as you think he does. That's the smartest thing I've seen you post. I think that there could be other, intelligent life out there. Think about it. I got this great thought from 'Animal House': Galaxies could be all around us. Small enough to fit inside of one atom. With that possibility, it's impossible to say that God or a 'god' didn't create several different forms of intelligent life.
Here's a few questions to piss you off while your doing something- Why is there a god? Who made god? God is what? How old is god? What was before god? What started God? Have fun. Intelligent answers only please.
Renerage wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:22 Here's a few questions to piss you off while your doing something- Why is there a god? Who made god? God is what? How old is god? What was before god? What started God? Have fun. Intelligent answers only please. One can only speculate answers to this. Just as one can only speculate what created the Big Bang. Was it a god that has no creator, or was initiated that has no creator? Whatever you come down to, there is still a point of "how the fuck did it get there in the first place?" Either way you answer it, it's impossible to mock the other person for believing that the matter always existed (how?) or whether there was a being that always existed (how?) to create the matter.
cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:25 Renerage wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:22 Here's a few questions to piss you off while your doing something- Why is there a god? Who made god? God is what? How old is god? What was before god? What started God? Have fun. Intelligent answers only please. One can only speculate answers to this. Just as one can only speculate what created the Big Bang. Was it a god that has no creator, or was initiated that has no creator? Whatever you come down to, there is still a point of "how the fuck did it get there in the first place?" Either way you answer it, it's impossible to mock the other person for believing that the matter always existed (how?) or whether there was a being that always existed (how?) to create the matter. Spoken like a true thinker. That's exactly the kind of post that I DIDN'T expect to see on here. Your right, the concept of- "How the hell did it get there?" Is a huge subject of debate. What started anything, in any situation will get people thinking. Now, before the "big bang", what was there before? Random black space? This is starting to sound wierd, but... Remember the ending to MIB? With the mutiple galaxies being played with like marbles? Now, I don't mean we are marbles, but what if we're part of something bigger...And god as we know it, is just the "bigger being".. Iunno, random ranting I guesss.
Renerage wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:29 Spoken like a true thinker. That's exactly the kind of post that I DIDN'T expect to see on here. Well, it's kind of silly to be talking in absolutes about something we have no proof on. It's entirely a faith-based decision that you have to make. As I meant to say, you can't mock someone for believing in the opposite and not consider yourself to be a hypocrite because it comes down to the same principle belief. Something always existed. Whether it was the matter, the matter's creator, the matter's creator's creator, and so on... That's what's up for debate. It's, also, quite silly for people to be calling each other idiots because one believes in a creator for the matter, or just the matter. Renerage Remember the ending to MIB? With the mutiple galaxies being played with like marbles? Now, I don't mean we are marbles, but what if we're part of something bigger...And god as we know it, is just the "bigger being".. Iunno, random ranting I guesss. Then, in theory, are we capable of creating something so much smaller than ourselves that would be unable to say, with certainty, that we exist? If so, how close are we to this technology?
Renerage wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 21:22 Here's a few questions to piss you off while your doing something- Why is there a god? Who made god? God is what? How old is god? What was before god? What started God? Have fun. Intelligent answers only please. If you read the bible, you will find all this out in heaven. It says that your mind can't comprehend it right now on earth, but it will all be explained in the afterlife.
Can we create life and sustain it without them knowing? I don't think we're that far along yet. If you know what I mean, we can be their "god".
Sn1per74* wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:55 Renerage wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 21:22 Here's a few questions to piss you off while your doing something- Why is there a god? Who made god? God is what? How old is god? What was before god? What started God? Have fun. Intelligent answers only please. If you read the bible, you will find all this out in heaven. It says that your mind can't comprehend it right now on earth, but it will all be explained in the afterlife. I can write a book that says if you give me 20% of your income, infinite wisdom will come your way because that 20% being donated to me honors God, or some other mystical being, and he/she/it will grant you this wisdom. Someone can tell me they'll meet me for lunch, but at that moment, I don't know if they really are or not. I could speculate, hope, and trust that they will, but until the moment arrives for that meeting, I won't have the answer.
Sn1per74* wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:55 Renerage wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 21:22 Here's a few questions to piss you off while your doing something- Why is there a god? Who made god? God is what? How old is god? What was before god? What started God? Have fun. Intelligent answers only please. If you read the bible, you will find all this out in heaven. It says that your mind can't comprehend it right now on earth, but it will all be explained in the afterlife. I dont need some half assed book telling me what to believe. I'm not religious, never will be. I don't think ANY book of ANYTHING is the truth. The Truth is out there, aye, but not anywhere we're looking.
Renerage wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:58 Can we create life and sustain it without them knowing? I don't think we're that far along yet. If you know what I mean, we can be their "god". Well, no, we're not there yet. I know that. It's cool to think that we could be someone's god. Just like something higher than us could be our god.
Well, Who's not to say that we're someone else's creation? Someone/something, bigger, smarter, etc etcer, created us. And now we live, in their little world. We think things are "big" to us. But really, how "big" are we?
We're already at the point where we could create our own science and intelligence... programming ftw. So if you look at it a different way... programmers are gods. o.o
Renerage wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 23:02 Well, Who's not to say that we're someone else's creation? Someone/something, bigger, smarter, etc etcer, created us. And now we live, in their little world. We think things are "big" to us. But really, how "big" are we? That's what I've been saying... I mentioned a thought provoking discussion seen/heard on "Animal House". It's a great movie.
BlueThen wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:06 We're already at the point where we could create our own science and intelligence... programming ftw. So if you look at it a different way... programmers are gods. o.o Yeah. But before doing that, please make it so my friggin' toaster doesn't burn my sourdough, and so my car can scratch my ass while in gridlock.
For FFS keep all your religions out of this thread. Please don't bring religion or anything about God here please unless absolutely necessary. We have had enough of those here. The threadstarter is asking for a valid reasoning from Atheists to answer the question. -------------------------------------------------------------- Everything the threadstarter listed about Earth is what makes life sustain in this planet. If similar circumstances have taken place elsewhere, I am sure life will be present also. Considering that we are made up of star dust, and that this star dust is everywhere in the universe, it is only logical to say that if given the right conditions, life would indeed be alive elsewhere. If it was a accident, there are several inconsistencies with it. The word "accident" should not be used in this matter. Life evolved in this planet because Earth was made habitable by the natural forces that shaped it during it's formation and the location in space it came to rest on. Take for example, the atmosphere. It is agreed that atmospheres are present simply due to the turn of natural events that formed a planet. Just because Earth's atmosphere supports/protects lifeforms does not mean that it was created specifically for humans by another entity. Mars has an atmosphere but due to several variables, it currently cannot support life that evolved on planet Earth. I bolded that to show that life forms do not always need oxygen/carbon/nitrogen to survive. So, it's a matter of thinking outside the box and we must be open to all possibities. Take the planet HD 209458 b for example. It was found that this gas planet has an atmosphere that may have water vapor. Furthermore, it seems to have oxygen and carbon. It is a great finding and more research is being done to try to solidify the initial findings. IMO, alien life and other Earth-like planets exist...it's is only a matter of us finding them and acknowledgeing their existence with solid scientific proof. There are so many secrets that we have not figured out here on Earth...and we are already looking into space. We still do not know how elephants communicate with each other over massive distances. We do not know what type of vision animals have (visual, infrared, etc). Likewise, life on other planets is a 100% possibility and that life may come in many forms. We tend to associate the word "alien" with humanoid lifeforms. But living beings located outside our planet may come in different forms. I am certain that life-forms, both big and small exist all over the universe.
It's possible that other life may not be Carbon based.
I believe we were put on this earth for one reason, to play Command and Conquer: Renegade Actually, I think that we are some creepy alien race put here to do many things. But who said that there are really aliens hidden in the sky and space. Shhhh, the the goverment is hiding the truth.
BlueThen wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 20:01 Darkknight wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 19:49 I'm a Christian who believes their could be life somewhere else. Why not? Bible never said we are the only ones. Bible never said we weren't either. umm right, doesnt say either way
NukeIt15 wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 18:57 Of all the billions of planets orbiting billions of stars in millions of galaxies... if life exists anywhere (and we can fairly assume that it does ), the odds against there being life elsewhere as well are absurdly low. Somewhere just by pure, dumb luck (or design, if you'd rather have it that way), there must be at least several hundred thousand more planets orbiting stars like our sun at exactly the right distance, in exactly the right place in their respective galaxies, with massive planets like Jupiter to gobble up all the 'roids. Out of all those many, there must be some on which the proper atmospheric conditions and lunar counterbalance exits in order to make life possible. Honestly, the thought of there not being other life out there- and intelligent life, at that, given how long the universe has been around- is utterly incomprehensible to me. That's like... the same thing I said.
Um, haven't they already found planets that are the same distance from their sun as we are from ours(taking the size of the sun into account)?
cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:25 One can only speculate answers to this. Just as one can only speculate what created the Big Bang. Was it a god that has no creator, or was initiated that has no creator? Whatever you come down to, there is still a point of "how the fuck did it get there in the first place?" Either way you answer it, it's impossible to mock the other person for believing that the matter always existed (how?) or whether there was a being that always existed (how?) to create the matter. Well the big bang is simple to think about really... it was just a small condenced space filled with all the matter in our Universe. It continued to absorb and/or create matter until it couldn't handle the mass of what it had and exploded. The real question to speculate is what lies beyond the Universe? The Universe is what is outside of everything... correct? Well, if that is true, then when(if) the Big bang happened, it had to be contained within some sort of space. Unless there was something beyond the universe. Or else really, how is the Universe created... within the Universe?
razorblade001 wrote on Sat, 06 October 2007 23:05 cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:25 One can only speculate answers to this. Just as one can only speculate what created the Big Bang. Was it a god that has no creator, or was initiated that has no creator? Whatever you come down to, there is still a point of "how the fuck did it get there in the first place?" Either way you answer it, it's impossible to mock the other person for believing that the matter always existed (how?) or whether there was a being that always existed (how?) to create the matter. Well the big bang is simple to think about really... it was just a small condenced space filled with all the matter in our Universe. It continued to absorb and/or create matter until it couldn't handle the mass of what it had and exploded. The real question to speculate is what lies beyond the Universe? The Universe is what is outside of everything... correct? Well, if that is true, then when(if) the Big bang happened, it had to be contained within some sort of space. Unless there was something beyond the universe. Or else really, how is the Universe created... within the Universe? So a "small, condensed space" could randomly start creating and absorbing matter, yet a god can't exist? If
I forgot the name of the guy who theorized this but he calculated about 56,600,000 planets that could support life in the milky way.
cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 21:51 Renerage wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:29 Spoken like a true thinker. That's exactly the kind of post that I DIDN'T expect to see on here. Well, it's kind of silly to be talking in absolutes about something we have no proof on. It's entirely a faith-based decision that you have to make. As I meant to say, you can't mock someone for believing in the opposite and not consider yourself to be a hypocrite because it comes down to the same principle belief. Something always existed. Whether it was the matter, the matter's creator, the matter's creator's creator, and so on... That's what's up for debate. It's, also, quite silly for people to be calling each other idiots because one believes in a creator for the matter, or just the matter. Renerage Remember the ending to MIB? With the mutiple galaxies being played with like marbles? Now, I don't mean we are marbles, but what if we're part of something bigger...And god as we know it, is just the "bigger being".. Iunno, random ranting I guesss. Then, in theory, are we capable of creating something so much smaller than ourselves that would be unable to say, with certainty, that we exist? If so, how close are we to this technology? In technology terms, we are very far off, but we have an theory on how it could be done, they believe they have the maths to do it, but to be honest, the whole idea of creating an entire Universe in our own, scares me, what if they get it wrong... we could destroy ourselfs. razorblade001 wrote on Sat, 06 October 2007 22:05 cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 04 October 2007 22:25 One can only speculate answers to this. Just as one can only speculate what created the Big Bang. Was it a god that has no creator, or was initiated that has no creator? Whatever you come down to, there is still a point of "how the fuck did it get there in the first place?" Either way you answer it, it's impossible to mock the other person for believing that the matter always existed (how?) or whether there was a being that always existed (how?) to create the matter. Well the big bang is simple to think about really... it was just a small condenced space filled with all the matter in our Universe. It continued to absorb and/or create matter until it couldn't handle the mass of what it had and exploded. The real question to speculate is what lies beyond the Universe? The Universe is what is outside of everything... correct? Well, if that is true, then when(if) the Big bang happened, it had to be contained within some sort of space. Unless there was something beyond the universe. Or else really, how is the Universe created... within the Universe? The present theory of that is there is an unlimited number of Universe's, an easy way to understand this, is that the universe is floating alongside an unlimited number of other universe's, like micros in water. An other theory on top of that explains the big bang, the theory explains when one universe bumps into an other, an new universe is born, the birth of a new one, has no effect on the others around it, but with two universes bumping into one other, they transform the raw stuff to make everything, like a child you could say.
That didn't actually answer my speculation. But you did make it easier to understand. Using your example, of universe like micros in water and how they are all floating along side each other in water But that was the question I was asking. What, using your example, is the water the universes are floating in? What lies BEYOND the universe, or what is containing the universe?
Tankkiller wrote on Sat, 06 October 2007 23:38 I forgot the name of the guy who theorized this but he calculated about 56,600,000 planets that could support life in the milky way. What's the probability of those supporting "Intelligent life" though?
If you would ask me I would guess maybe a quarter to a third Would hold life. Intelligent life ,however, maybe a 32nd to a 16th.
razorblade001 wrote on Sun, 07 October 2007 00:55 That didn't actually answer my speculation. But you did make it easier to understand. Using your example, of universe like micros in water and how they are all floating along side each other in water But that was the question I was asking. What, using your example, is the water the universes are floating in? What lies BEYOND the universe, or what is containing the universe? They did have an answer on that too, but I've forgot it, but what I'd can remember is that the universe's are just like cells in an human body and everything in the Universe has an job to do. Not sure if know you get these programes on TV where you are at, but over here in the UK, one of our main tv channels, channel four, is showing alot of these programmes to explain this stuff.
Jecht wrote on Sun, 07 October 2007 07:55 Tankkiller wrote on Sat, 06 October 2007 23:38 I forgot the name of the guy who theorized this but he calculated about 56,600,000 planets that could support life in the milky way. What's the probability of those supporting "Intelligent life" though? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation N = R* x Fp x Ne x Fl x Fi x Fc x L N is the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which we might hope to be able to communicate; and R* is the average rate of star formation in our galaxy fp is the fraction of those stars that have planets ne is the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets fl is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point fi is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life fc is the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space L is the length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.
Okay, just for everyone's info, viruses are not TECHINACLLY considered to be alive. Also I once read that they found fossilized prints of bacteria on Mars or something along those lines.
Jerad Gray wrote on Tue, 16 October 2007 20:18 Okay, just for everyone's info, viruses are not TECHINACLLY considered to be alive. Also I once read that they found fossilized prints of bacteria on Mars or something along those lines. They also found where a stream used to be, on Mars.
if aliens actually visited earth would you still be a christian?
Rocko wrote on Wed, 17 October 2007 00:06 if aliens actually visited earth would you still be a christian? Why the hell wouldn't you still be christian if Aliens visited earth? It's not as if there is a passage in the Bible that says: Then God said, "Let the waters beneath the sky flow together into one place, so dry ground may appear." Then God said, "Let there not be aliens, for they are ugly and slimy and stuff."
Jecht wrote on Wed, 17 October 2007 03:54 Rocko wrote on Wed, 17 October 2007 00:06 if aliens actually visited earth would you still be a christian? Why the hell wouldn't you still be christian if Aliens visited earth? It's not as if there is a passage in the Bible that says: Then God said, "Let the waters beneath the sky flow together into one place, so dry ground may appear." Then God said, "Let there not be aliens, for they are ugly and slimy and stuff." Jecht is my man.
Jecht wrote on Wed, 17 October 2007 03:54 Rocko wrote on Wed, 17 October 2007 00:06 if aliens actually visited earth would you still be a christian? Why the hell wouldn't you still be christian if Aliens visited earth? It's not as if there is a passage in the Bible that says: Then God said, "Let the waters beneath the sky flow together into one place, so dry ground may appear." Then God said, "Let there not be aliens, for they are ugly and slimy and stuff." Does it say anywhere in the bible that there are other humans or peoples on other planets? What if those aliens had their own religion or had none at all? That's what i'm talking about.
No, it doesn't say that to my knowledge. However, I don't think that there is a statement saying the contrary either. On another note: What if there are Aliens and they have a Monotheistic view strikingly similar to Christianity?
Jecht wrote on Thu, 18 October 2007 04:24 On another note: What if there are Aliens and they have a Monotheistic view strikingly similar to Christianity? There would be a huge war over it. Until one of us is completely wiped out.
RoShamBo wrote on Thu, 18 October 2007 09:27 Jecht wrote on Thu, 18 October 2007 04:24 On another note: What if there are Aliens and they have a Monotheistic view strikingly similar to Christianity? There would be a huge war over it. Until one of us is completely wiped out. I think hes saying that they basically have the same religion as us. Like the people in the bible just have different names or something like that. If they had nearly the same view why would we fight over it?
Who cares...as long as the aliens got beautiful women...
Because it's human nature to fire first and ask questions later.
Sn1per74* wrote on Thu, 18 October 2007 21:04 RoShamBo wrote on Thu, 18 October 2007 09:27 Jecht wrote on Thu, 18 October 2007 04:24 On another note: What if there are Aliens and they have a Monotheistic view strikingly similar to Christianity? There would be a huge war over it. Until one of us is completely wiped out. I think hes saying that they basically have the same religion as us. Like the people in the bible just have different names or something like that. If they had nearly the same view why would we fight over it? There would be little diffrences...
Sn1per74* wrote on Thu, 18 October 2007 15:04 RoShamBo wrote on Thu, 18 October 2007 09:27 Jecht wrote on Thu, 18 October 2007 04:24 On another note: What if there are Aliens and they have a Monotheistic view strikingly similar to Christianity? There would be a huge war over it. Until one of us is completely wiped out. I think hes saying that they basically have the same religion as us. Like the people in the bible just have different names or something like that. If they had nearly the same view why would we fight over it? Wouldn't something like aliens being athiest or having some compeletely different religion other than christianity really change your views as a christian? I think it would. Why didn't Jesus tell us about aliens? Are we not alone in the universe? Maybe it's possible we were just something that happened by mistake in the infinite universe and nothing special made us?
Because it was Jesus's will to tell us about God. Aliens are not God. No, atheist aliens would not change my view about God. Aliens may not be superior to us as a culture remember. Even if they were, it doesn't mean they're view of an afterlife may be anymore proven than religions(or lack there of) here on this planet.
At the risk of bumping an old topic, I feel i have something to contribute. http://youtube.com/watch?v=u-Z4gy1JSdg This video, i find to be amazing. It really makes you think. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Limits and The Problem With Infinity ----------------------------------------------------------------- Now, a problem with this whole discussion is the fact that humans can not comprehend the concept of infinity. The reason for this is because everything we know, has a limit. Limits are everywhere and they ALWAYS exist. We know of nothing on earth and in life that does not have a limit besides space. There in lies the problem. Humans can only understand what they knew to be true and possible. Since we have no examples of infinity, we cannot understand it. Thinking of something that goes on for ever and ever does not make sense to us, and therefore we try to place it inside something in our heads. There are two possibilities regarding this matter. 1. Space is limitless, and is ever-expanding therefore making the chances of life elsewhere not only possible but probable. 2. Space has a limit. So what is it inside of and what is the limit of that and what is that in side of(and so on and so forth). ----------------------------------------------------------------- Life Elsewhere ----------------------------------------------------------------- If the universe is indeed infinite (which as far as we know, it is), then there are infinite chances to produce infinite results infinite times. If this is true (which again, must be since we can not prove otherwise) then infinite amount of life exists in infinite amount of space elsewhere. In addition, who is to say that life can only exist where there are traces of water and oxygen. Why is it so implausible that other beings exist in ways that allow them to live off of really shitty climate and nitrogen. Just because the only type of living conditions we know to sustain life are our own does not mean that there can not be other beings that depend on nitrogen or helium or other poisonous (to us) elements. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Our 5 Senses ----------------------------------------------------------------- Another thing that I have thought about is what if they exist in different senses. Ones that we do not posses. Then again, this goes along with the same theory as the infinity theory and how humans cannot comprehend it since we have no reference point of it. Trying to come up with a new name for a new sense is dumb seeing as a name would not do it justice. We only know of the senses we have, and that is ALL there is. It is completely impossible to think up another sense and explain it's function without it being one we already have. Try it. If you can see it, that's already a sense. If you can taste it, that's already a sense. If you can Touch it, it's already a sense. If you can hear it, it's already a sense. If you can smell it, it's already a sense. The only way would be to use words that don't exist, and you inevitably come back to a sense we already control. If we can not See, Taste, Touch, Hear, or Smell something, then that something does not exist to us. What if there are an infinite amount of different types of things "Living" on earth wit us, but since we can not do any of the aforementioned to detect them, then do they really exist? ----------------------------------------------------------------- Being An Atheist ----------------------------------------------------------------- I am an atheist, and for the reasons listed above basically. I believe that everything was a giant insanely ridiculous coincidence, that eventually had to happen given the infinite amount of infinites involved in the equation. I was going to be somewhere sometime one way or another, and this is just the life we lucked into. So what if it took an infinite amount of time to do, since before you're born, time effectively does not exist. It exists for others, but not for you. The trillions of years that went by before you and I were born happened instantly since time does not exist for those who are not alive. Basically when you die, time will stop all together or start passing at an infinite speed, since if you are not alive everything is over. Not to others of course, but when you're dead it doesn't matter what others keep doing. You are not there to see, taste, feel, smell, or hear it, and it effectively just does not exist. ----------------------------------------------------------------- The Silver Lining ----------------------------------------------------------------- Basically what I have just said leaves one wondering what the point of life actually is since death is inevitable, and after death, everything is over. My theory is that we gain access to senses we never had and are able to basically "exist" elsewhere. Believing that life has no point is a depressing outlook and therefore I refuse to take it. So with all of the infinite possibilities of what really lies after death, there must be something and no one alive (in our sense of the word) will ever know. Live it up – Toter
Toter wrote on Tue, 06 November 2007 22:26 So with all of the infinite possibilities of what really lies after death, there must be something and no one alive (in our sense of the word) will ever know. Except for God. That's just silliness.
The afterlife was cooked up by humans to deal with the temptations of immortality...and to make the death of their loved ones easier on themselves. And to console themselves that there is more of the good shit after death. Oh yeah "she's in a better place" bullshit. Nothing like self-consolation! Which is the reason the death of a loved one will be very painful to me. To me, they are gone forever...erased out of time. All that remains will be their sacred grave, good deeds, their relationship to me, my memory of them, their photographs and the items they left behind. Think about that deeply ^^
Starbuzz wrote on Wed, 07 November 2007 00:44 The afterlife was cooked up by humans to deal with the temptations of immortality...and to make the death of their loved ones easier on themselves. And to console themselves that there is more of the good shit after death. Oh yeah "she's in a better place" bullshit. Nothing like self-consolation! Which is the reason the death of a loved one will be very painful to me. To me, they are gone forever...erased out of time. All that remains will be their sacred grave, good deeds, their relationship to me, my memory of them, their photographs and the items they left behind. Think about that deeply ^^ People made religion to explain things. Not to be immortal.
No, we are not alone. Them damn alien lifeforms keep crossing our borders! On a serious note, no, I don't believe we are, but I also think we'll destroy ourselves as a whole before we have the technology to find out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Blue_Dot Does it really matter? I for one believe that the universe is too big to be completely empty. Some people believe that the earth is the "center" of the universe, but when you consider what an insignificant speck we are in the cosmos, for all our grand thinking, we aren't really squat. I'd love to meet some aliens, but honestly, any advanced race would study us from orbit for a day or two, and decide that we are too primitive and barbaric to make contact with. Yeah, we like to think we are advanced and live in a star-trek like utopia...but go take a walk around your city after midnight, and see how safe you feel So, on one hand, maybe we should stop looking and hoping for aliens to come down and share technology with us and comfort us into not being alone, and concentrate on the home that we know for sure we have...instead of trashing the planet like some tenants that are about to move out of an apartment. Even if we were alone in the universe, we still have each other, if we could just stop all the hating and try to improve our overall group consciousness, we could truly advance as a race and maybe someday be worthy of meeting any other intelligent life that could be out there. Carl Sagan, 1996 We succeeded in taking that picture [from deep space], and, if you look at it, you see a dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you know, everyone you love, everyone you've ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines. Every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there - on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity -- in all this vastness -- there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish this pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.
While we are on the subject of aliens: http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/11/09/simington.ufocommentary/index.html?ir ef=mpstoryview I was also talking to some coworkers on our internal IRC, and made a couple of points: <Charles> You know what's odd...there could be a *massive* UFO sighting..like let's say a giant UFO landed on top of the parking garage, and sat there for an hour, and thousands of people saw it...it would maybe be on the local news, and maybe a sub-headline on cnn.com for a few hours, and then within a couple days it would be as if it never happened <Charles> I see stuff in the news all the time that makes one go HOLY CRAP, but in a day or two it fades away and nobody follows up on it or anything I mention this because that news story actually makes reference to a similar situation, awhile back there was a massive UFO sighting at the chicago airport...thousands of people saw it and it was there for several minutes...yet within a couple of days the story was buried...why is that? It makes you wonder just what exactly has to happen for it to be "common knowledge" that there are real UFO's and whatnot. So far it looks like a UFO could land, and an alien could step out, and pee on everyones face, go "hah!" and then fly off, and week later nobody would even remember it happened and still be wondering if UFOs are real.
I'm guessing the reason nobody really follows up with UFO sightings is because so many people made hoaxes, causing everyone to stop believing in sightings.
I fail to see how any UFO "sightings" are even valid. 100% of the videos and photographs are blurry and distorted.
I cannot believe in UFOs. I doubt such technology can exist that it would take carbon-based lifeforms billions of years to travel to distant solar systems. Plus, if a spaceship could travel that quickly, why are we even capable of seeing them float across the sky?
I have always been skeptical of UFO's. There are a few cases that I find to be extraordinary and believable (cases like Betty-Barney Hill, Allagash, Rendlesham). But we must remember that the whole modern UFO age started only after Kenneth Arnold spotted mysterious flying saucers while flying in his private airplane. Soon enough, the following weeks and months were full of UFO sightings.
Exactly my point...as I posted, the former governor of Arizona, along with 16 "high-ranking" military officials, are having a press conference to talk about the UFO's they have seen, and already, before they have even uttered a word, nobody believes them. And, as I stated, a UFO could land and thousands of people see it, and a week later nobody would still be talking about it or wondering WTF it was, it would just get swept under the rug. Which begs the question....exactly how fantastic an event would have to occur, for people to still be talking about it a month later, and demanding to know wtf it was, or the status of the investigation? I seriously think an ID4-type giant UFO could blast the whitehouse down to the ground, and a few months later they would be having a fund-raiser to rebuild the white-house "which was destroyed from the freak lighting storm". If people refuse to ask questions about what they see, and refuse to be open-minded and disbelieve things before they even hear them, they are nothing more than sheep. It's fine with me if the people want to be sheep, I just want to know who their masters are, and what their plans are.
Blazer wrote on Sat, 10 November 2007 22:35 If people refuse to ask questions about what they see, and refuse to be open-minded and disbelieve things before they even hear them, they are nothing more than sheep. It's fine with me if the people want to be sheep, I just want to know who their masters are, and what their plans are. Now that exactly is the problem, Blazer. It must be understood that people will believe if they see it with their own eyes. But unfortunately, it is very difficult to trust someone else's sighting mainly due to the massive amount of bull**** most UFO mysteries are filled with. So, there will always be skeptics. And I was not kidding when I mentioned the 3 UFO cases that even if I think about them, tear up my eye and send a shiver up my spine. It sounds dumb I know but they are that real and that errie to me. I highly suggest people read about it.
Well thats a problem too then isn't it (If you refuse to believe anything unless you personally see it)? So even if 3,000 people reported seeing something, including officials and whatnot, it didn't happen just because you weren't there? This brings up another question...is there any person credible enough that they could say they saw something, and someone would even consider believing them? The former gov of Arizona and "high-ranking" government officials are obviously not credible, as everyone in this thread already assumes they are lying or just don't believe them (before they have even heard what they have to say lol). If the president himself went on TV and said that he saw a spacecraft and aliens visited the white house, people would just be like "lawl bush is an idiot anyway I dont believe him". It's a bit odd that people believe in other things that they cannot see (God, fate, luck, etc), but won't believe something that their best friend tells them they saw, or that thousands of others swear they experienced.
Sorry Blazer about this late reply...my internet was down! So anyway... When it comes to the subject of UFO's, I think there is just a massive amount of information that people do not know which one is the truth. Even if it includes military/government officials, people will only draw the "ah the military is always lying" link because the media has made people believe over the years that the military is covering up the UFO subject. Anyway...I don't think UFO's can't be compared to other unproven things like God, fate, luck. Why? Because humans have a phychological necessity to believe in God. How many humans wake up every morning and pray to their god(s) so that they can have a "blessed" day? It uplifts their spirits and gives them a boost of confidence that someone (even it that someone is nonexistant) is watching over them. And fate and luck are just two words that describe the randomness of life. But UFO's are not necessary for humans to live. It is an object of curiosity and thanks to the bull**** that can be found about UFO's today in the media that people really don't care whether it's true or not.
Starbuzz wrote on Mon, 12 November 2007 11:23 Anyway...I don't think UFO's can be compared to other unproven things like God, fate, luck. Corrected sentence. Sorry to double post.
I actually enjoy astronomy, and the only reason why I believe that life exist, other than our Earth, is because it happened here, why can't it happen anywhere else? The Universe is HUGE. We can't keep track of every single thing, there is a big possibility that life exist outside our planet, a big possibility.
anything is possible in the infinite universe
Rocko wrote on Mon, 19 November 2007 06:27 anything is possible in the infinite universe our universe isn't infinite.
RoShamBo wrote on Mon, 19 November 2007 00:42 Rocko wrote on Mon, 19 November 2007 06:27 anything is possible in the infinite universe our universe isn't infinite. have u been to space
For all we know, space is finite. It may only appear to be infinite.
Jecht wrote on Mon, 19 November 2007 18:42 For all we know, space is finite. It may only appear to be infinite. did u create the universe
There are great mathematicians who have proved it.
Rocko wrote on Mon, 19 November 2007 22:10 Jecht wrote on Mon, 19 November 2007 18:42 For all we know, space is finite. It may only appear to be infinite. did u create the universe Nope, but I know who did And he isn't telling
alien life is a stastistical certanty. there is a massive maths formula that works out the chances of a given planet having suitable conditions for life (its very small), but since the universe is infinate (according to current science) then so is the chance of there being life. but the chance of such life communicating with us are mathamatically insignificant due to the distance between planet systems. due to the speed of light, if we ever pick up a transmission then anouther maths formula states that specias will have died out by the time it reaches us (and the same with our transmissions)
Aren't we still broadcasting re-runs of 'I Love Lucy' into outer space? I'm sure they're picking up the first couple seasons of Survivor, and Grey's Anatomy by now. Why the hell would they want to contact us?
ha ha, we should be carful, if the maths is wrong and they are getting our broadcasts they might build a Death Ray just to shut us up
firazero wrote on Tue, 20 November 2007 06:02 ha ha, we should be carful, if the maths is wrong and they are getting our broadcasts they might build a Death Ray just to shut us up You know thats a certainty if they're picking up "The View."
Jecht wrote on Tue, 20 November 2007 03:57 Rocko wrote on Mon, 19 November 2007 22:10 Jecht wrote on Mon, 19 November 2007 18:42 For all we know, space is finite. It may only appear to be infinite. did u create the universe Nope, but I know who did And he isn't telling how do you know?