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http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/11/2002469.htm http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8QUECGG1&show_article=1 Are you aged 18-35? Not in college? Well, you might be able to have the opportunity to go and serve in Iraq! What do you Americans think of this? Do you think they would actually reinstate the draft for Iraq?
Depends, if they don't have a job, then yes they need to learn to make a living. Otherwise no. I don't think it will ever happen though. I'm sure were gonna pull out within a couple years.
Canadacdn wrote on Sat, 11 August 2007 23:49 Are you aged 18-35? Not in college? Well, you might be able to have the opportunity to go and serve in Iraq! Awesome!
What I think about it doesn't matter. If I get drafted, then i'll go. If I don't, then I won't. Regardless of the reasons, my country would've called me to serve. It would be dishonorable to do otherwise. Now a days, there is a lack of a sense of honor in my opinion.
Oh noes! /me turns 18 next month >.< lol No worries here about being drafted. Still in school. -MathK1LL
Maybe they can use my awesome Apache/Orca skills...But oh no! Those work only in Renegade! LOL!
I find that outragous. Forceing people to go to war, many who probably disagree with the war themselfs. Great to live in Britain!
That is a horrible idea.. I can understand a draft in the times of an emergency, but for the "war" in Iraq? Seriously?
Gbull is completely right. I work with old people all day. Me, and three other people at work are under 65. The other 246 drivers are over that. They ALL served in the military. You ask any one of them and they will have stories for hours. They all talk about it, they can relate and they can bond. It is something that ties their generation together. Two veterans can meet in an empty room and after some awkward silence one of them will notice the tattoo the one has or something to that effect and say "You know my brother was in the marines". And they'll go off and get along great. Our generation has nothing like that. We have no tieing bond. They were all proud to serve and they all knew that if they were drafted they had to go. I can guarantee you they wouldn't have too high an opinion of a draft dodger. Even if your beliefs don't support the war, you live in the country and part of that is having to do things for it. I'm a pretty hard guy to make mad, but one thing that aggravates me to no end is the newspapers and the people who say things like "Oh look at this some poor kid was just trying to get through college and now he has to go to war". What the fuck. The military WILL pay for your college on the condition that you serve! That's terrible that they signed up for the military and now they are being CRUELLY FORCED to do what the military does. They just wanted to rob the US government to pay for their education. IMPEACH BUSH. What if you saw someone who agreed to take out a loan and now that EVIL bank is trying to make them pay it back. They were just trying to get an education! For shame! I know that it might seem like these statements don't really flow correctly; that I said Gbull is correct and then did not directly support his statements, but what I mean is more that I would have said what Gbull said myself, then launched into this little rant.
I'm not saying I wouldn't serve. I'm just posting my thoughts about this. And you don't really "sign up" for a draft.
Bring it on!!!!! It will teach some of the younger generation some discipline and respect
Nightma12 wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 02:58 I find that outragous. Forceing people to go to war, many who probably disagree with the war themselfs. Great to live in Britain! I'm for the war. Probably the only one on these entire forums.
puddle_splasher wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 07:35 Bring it on!!!!! It will teach some of the younger generation some discipline and respect I honestly doubt that you'd be so gung-ho about this if you had a son being forced to go into the military to serve in the war in Iraq.
Sn1per74* wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 08:50 Nightma12 wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 02:58 I find that outragous. Forceing people to go to war, many who probably disagree with the war themselfs. Great to live in Britain! I'm for the war. Probably the only one on these entire forums. have fun dying for it
Although Canada isn't in Iraq, our troops are one of the largest forces keeping Afghanistan from total collapse. America and Britain are doing their part, but the rest of our NATO 'allies' are being a bunch of table-scrap pilfering grab-asses and not giving us the help we sorely need. If America were to re-instate a draft, it would help our chances in that country to keep it from collapsing. However, this will never go through. Rich Republican parents will be pretty pissed off at the possibility that their trust-fund babies could end up in a foreign country doing service. Regular voters will simply put the Democrats in power, and keep them there for years. If this ever does go through, there'll likely be some draft-dodgers headed up this way.
Every day I feel that I'm the ONLY Republican on these forums.
Sn1per74* wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 14:33 Every day I feel that I'm the ONLY Republican on these forums. I know that feeling. Try telling a bunch of university students that haven't worked a day in their life that NAFTA is awesome, or that Wal-Mart is actually pretty good for the world... I'm never making that mistake again.
Sn1per74* wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 14:33 Every day I feel that I'm the ONLY Republican on these forums. I'm not necessarily a Republican, but I'm a conservative if that makes you feel better.
Jecht wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 18:01 Sn1per74* wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 14:33 Every day I feel that I'm the ONLY Republican on these forums. I'm not necessarily a Republican, but I'm a conservative if that makes you feel better. I like you, you're always on my side!
nikki6ixx wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 13:39 Although Canada isn't in Iraq, our troops are one of the largest forces keeping Afghanistan from total collapse. wait!!!! Hold up one second... canada has an army?
Nobody should be forced to fight for their country. It isn't right.
Sniper don't feel alone. I'm for the war too. As far as being the only Republican you'd probably most easily define me as a Republican but I think I might be farther right than the current US Republican party. Also nikki I'm very lucky that I go to a university that isn't politically active at ALL. I would get in some major trouble if it was. lol It was hard enough being the only non diabolical-liberal in my Honors Western Civ Seminar class. Imagine that too, they weren't just the regular college dumbasses, they were the elite college dumbasses. The ones who when he asked if they came from a suburb they said "oh god no I would NEVAR live in a suburb" and were like scoffing so much I thought they wouldn't have time to breathe. They managed to squeeze in breathing at some point though because they never did die. Anyhow the teachers like "So you live on a farm then?" "Well no..." "Oh so you live in a highrise apartment building?" "No I don't" "Then you live in the suburbs!" He was terrorizing them with the fact that they were like everybody else. So yeah, Conservative-lyfe yo.
Doitle wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 21:48 Sniper don't feel alone. I'm for the war too. As far as being the only Republican you'd probably most easily define me as a Republican but I think I might be farther right than the current US Republican party. Also nikki I'm very lucky that I go to a university that isn't politically active at ALL. I would get in some major trouble if it was. lol It was hard enough being the only non diabolical-liberal in my Honors Western Civ Seminar class. Imagine that too, they weren't just the regular college dumbasses, they were the elite college dumbasses. The ones who when he asked if they came from a suburb they said "oh god no I would NEVAR live in a suburb" and were like scoffing so much I thought they wouldn't have time to breathe. They managed to squeeze in breathing at some point though because they never did die. Anyhow the teachers like "So you live on a farm then?" "Well no..." "Oh so you live in a highrise apartment building?" "No I don't" "Then you live in the suburbs!" He was terrorizing them with the fact that they were like everybody else. So yeah, Conservative-lyfe yo. Haha, I know exactly the type. My university is full of them.
If you know anything at all about American politics you know a draft will never happen.
Sn1per74* wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 15:33 Every day I feel that I'm the ONLY Republican on these forums. Umm.. your political party doesn't have to dictate every belief of yours. Do you actually have family members or friends in the war who actually see what happens in the front lines and what the war is about?
NuNeGa wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 22:22 nikki6ixx wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 13:39 Although Canada isn't in Iraq, our troops are one of the largest forces keeping Afghanistan from total collapse. wait!!!! Hold up one second... canada has an army? I loled at that XD Sn1per74* wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 15:33 Every day I feel that I'm the ONLY Republican on these forums. I'm Republican too
NuNeGa wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 21:22 nikki6ixx wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 13:39 Although Canada isn't in Iraq, our troops are one of the largest forces keeping Afghanistan from total collapse. wait!!!! Hold up one second... canada has an army? We sure do. We also have three submarines! If we wanted to, we could totally push around Malta. But then Denmark would kick our arse, hard.
If everyone did basic military training I think the world would run a lot smoother. But with that being said, I don't believe it's the right thing to do in a situation like this. Quote: wait!!!! Hold up one second... canada has an army? Britian has 3x as many forces in Afghanistan yet they won't push down into the southern regions to help Canada and the Netherlands. I would judge a country's military strength based on how they function, not just numbers. nikki6ixx We also have three submarines! We have four
As I said last night Canadacdn... 1. In the event of a draft within the next year or few, I will be in college, therefore having a legit excuse to NOT be drafted. 2. What that guy said was his opinion, that a draft would be great. The news is exploding all over it like it's gonna happen. It's not, and as luv2pb said, it never will. The only reason this guy thinks it's a good idea is because he's sittin out there with thousands of troops, and he's pissed that congress won't let Bush send any more. 3. The draft, aside from political reasons, will also not happen because of the already large numbers of men AND women enlisted in the military. It's simply not needed. In the event of some emergency, we can just call upon those already enlisted. When considering political reasons, you'll note that almost all the presidential candidates, Republican and Democrat are for an end to the "war" (if you can call it that), so that by the time the draft gets around, the next president will just shoot it down. Now I'd also like to bring up points that people already mentioned and further defend them. Doitle That's terrible that they signed up for the military and now they are being CRUELLY FORCED to do what the military does. They just wanted to rob the US government to pay for their education. IMPEACH BUSH. I like that he brings this up. People against the war say, oh look at our poor boys over there in Iraq, its so terrible that they have to be over there at a young age. But wait, they willingly signed up for the military. What did you think they signed up for? Now I'm sure there's some military personel that don't want to be over there, but know that it's their duty and accept it. Eh it's late, I forgot what else I was gonna bring up, but I'll say this. Sure I have plans for the future, college, job, wife n kids, and that's why I'm NOT joining the military. If the draft came around, it would mean there's some large emergency that threatens the safety of the U.S., at which point I'd have enough national pride to go proudly if I was drafted. Yea I had plans, but shit happens and there's nothin I can do about it.
Renx wrote on Mon, 13 August 2007 00:11 If everyone did basic military training I think the world would run a lot smoother. But with that being said, I don't believe it's the right thing to do in a situation like this. I agree, I would love to do basic military training. I am just too lazy to get up and do it. I am too lazy to get up and go to bed when I am tired. To put it in perspective.
razorblade001 wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 23:50 Renx wrote on Mon, 13 August 2007 00:11 If everyone did basic military training I think the world would run a lot smoother. But with that being said, I don't believe it's the right thing to do in a situation like this. I agree, I would love to do basic military training. I am just too lazy to get up and do it. I am too lazy to get up and go to bed when I am tired. To put it in perspective. Like the kids who feel they need to talk back to the teachers ALL THE TIME. It's fun sometimes though.
OMG I remember one teacher had the nerve to assign me an Oral Presentation project, that had to cover 3 topics. And made it due the NEXT day.. Then I come in, do it, and she has the nerve to tell me I was "unprepared" >_< But it is all about the self control. Didn't want to start a big conflict, so I put it behind me.
Tunaman wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 12:15 puddle_splasher wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 07:35 Bring it on!!!!! It will teach some of the younger generation some discipline and respect I honestly doubt that you'd be so gung-ho about this if you had a son being forced to go into the military to serve in the war in Iraq. I served 4 years in the Royal Engineers and joined up of my own accord So dont talk shit about something you dont understand
Renx wrote on Mon, 13 August 2007 00:11 Britian has 3x as many forces in Afghanistan yet they won't push down into the southern regions to help Canada and the Netherlands. I would judge a country's military strength based on how they function, not just numbers. NL are fighting the war on "terrorism" too? lol
I wish I could say I was a Republican... actually, I don't. I'm a proud Libertarian, and I can no longer support this war when we are not doing anything to ensure that Iraq is going to even attempt to stand on their own two feet. Sorry, but America is not their crutch. We've given them plenty of time, and we're losing troops in a stalemate, and I, for one, am not going to be a pawn of our military. The draft WILL NOT happen. If Republicans know what's good for them (and I hope they do, as I still LOATHE Democrats), they will vote down any attempt for a draft. Even those supporting the war still will never go for it.
Bottom line is even if you don't support the war- You should still support our troops. And, if you don't agree with George W. Bush, you should still support him. He is the President of our great country, and it is a hard job. He needs all the support he can get.
Supporting your troops is COMPLETELY different than supporting the war. Also, I'm not going to keep supporting someone who makes mistakes simply because they're in a position of power. If you sit back, blindly following someone, you don't get the best results. I'm not saying the presidency is easy, and anybody who can achieve that has my respect, but Bush would be better off as one of your drinking buddies than our President. I supported him for as long as I could, but he's stretched my patience way too thin.
What exactly do you think he did SO wrong? Edit: Numero 600th post for me last post.
Well, the Patriot Act is definitely one of them. Sure, it doesn't look bad on paper, but when you don't specify what the government can do, you let the powers be abused. Not to mention that I would rather die in a terrorist attack than know that my government could be looking over my shoulder all the time. While I admire him being steadfast in his decisions with Iraq, he could also afford to change some of his strategies. He's not pressing the Iraqi government to progress, at all, but instead just throw in more troops and money into this "surge" that hasn't done near what it was supposed to. He needs to grow some balls with Iraq and threaten their puppet government with losing any and all support from our troops if they don't put forth the effort in preparing their troops and government for a solo fight. I don't like the fact that he feels he can order Miers to defy a congressional subpoena to testify in court. Let's not forget about him ordering Rove not to testify, either. Recently, I've changed my stance on stem cell research. While I will NEVER support abortion (I think it should be illegal), as long as it is legal, the embryos should be able to be used to further studies to cure diseases. As disgusted as I am by abortion, why not let this travesty be used to benefit others? Now that abortion is still legal, but certain stem cell research is, there's a lot of wasted potential. Bush is supposed to support the shrinking of our government, not the expanding of it, yet here he is supporting the ignoring of our Bill of Rights.
cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 13 August 2007 12:22 Well, the Patriot Act is definitely one of them. Sure, it doesn't look bad on paper, but when you don't specify what the government can do, you let the powers be abused. Not to mention that I would rather die in a terrorist attack than know that my government could be looking over my shoulder all the time. While I admire him being steadfast in his decisions with Iraq, he could also afford to change some of his strategies. He's not pressing the Iraqi government to progress, at all, but instead just throw in more troops and money into this "surge" that hasn't done near what it was supposed to. He needs to grow some balls with Iraq and threaten their puppet government with losing any and all support from our troops if they don't put forth the effort in preparing their troops and government for a solo fight. I don't like the fact that he feels he can order Miers to defy a congressional subpoena to testify in court. Let's not forget about him ordering Rove not to testify, either. Recently, I've changed my stance on stem cell research. While I will NEVER support abortion (I think it should be illegal), as long as it is legal, the embryos should be able to be used to further studies to cure diseases. As disgusted as I am by abortion, why not let this travesty be used to benefit others? Now that abortion is still legal, but certain stem cell research is, there's a lot of wasted potential. Bush is supposed to support the shrinking of our government, not the expanding of it, yet here he is supporting the ignoring of our Bill of Rights. You've done your research. I like the points you brought up.
puddle_splasher wrote on Mon, 13 August 2007 10:51 I served 4 years in the Royal Engineers and joined up of my own accord So dont talk shit about something you dont understand Do you have any clue about what's going on in the war in Iraq? Seriously? Do you have family members over there telling you what's going on? I do. Being forced to do that is nothing like just signing up in the military because you want to. I'm not against having people serve in the military , I'm against drafting unwilling people into a war where it is unnecessary.
I have extremely mixed feelings about the war. -I support the troops ONLY to a point where I hope they make it back alive. But I draw the line at what they are doing over there in the first place. -I support going over to help out the country, I don't support military action.
Ryu wrote on Mon, 13 August 2007 12:09 Renx wrote on Mon, 13 August 2007 00:11 Britian has 3x as many forces in Afghanistan yet they won't push down into the southern regions to help Canada and the Netherlands. I would judge a country's military strength based on how they function, not just numbers. NL are fighting the war on "terrorism" too? lol The ISAF isn't "fighting terrorism." It's a force there to transfer control of the Afghan government away from the Taliban and back to Afghans who actually give a shit about their country and don't just want to sell opium to kids in our countries. The NL are one of the most active contributors. It's the British and the Americans who are following on Canadian and NL led missions in Afghanistan, not the other way around. And it's us who get shit on by the villagers when we try to make promises because the "more powerful" countries didn't keep the promoises they made 3 years ago when they came.
cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 13 August 2007 13:22 Well, the Patriot Act is definitely one of them. Sure, it doesn't look bad on paper, but when you don't specify what the government can do, you let the powers be abused. Not to mention that I would rather die in a terrorist attack than know that my government could be looking over my shoulder all the time. While I admire him being steadfast in his decisions with Iraq, he could also afford to change some of his strategies. He's not pressing the Iraqi government to progress, at all, but instead just throw in more troops and money into this "surge" that hasn't done near what it was supposed to. He needs to grow some balls with Iraq and threaten their puppet government with losing any and all support from our troops if they don't put forth the effort in preparing their troops and government for a solo fight. I don't like the fact that he feels he can order Miers to defy a congressional subpoena to testify in court. Let's not forget about him ordering Rove not to testify, either. Recently, I've changed my stance on stem cell research. While I will NEVER support abortion (I think it should be illegal), as long as it is legal, the embryos should be able to be used to further studies to cure diseases. As disgusted as I am by abortion, why not let this travesty be used to benefit others? Now that abortion is still legal, but certain stem cell research is, there's a lot of wasted potential. Bush is supposed to support the shrinking of our government, not the expanding of it, yet here he is supporting the ignoring of our Bill of Rights. Just shut the fuck up and GTFO. You're annoying "libertarianism" is annoying the piss out of me. You're "I want to walk the middle of the line" bullshit so "I'm never wrong" is getting on my nerves.
DarkDemin wrote on Mon, 13 August 2007 23:17 cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 13 August 2007 13:22 Well, the Patriot Act is definitely one of them. Sure, it doesn't look bad on paper, but when you don't specify what the government can do, you let the powers be abused. Not to mention that I would rather die in a terrorist attack than know that my government could be looking over my shoulder all the time. While I admire him being steadfast in his decisions with Iraq, he could also afford to change some of his strategies. He's not pressing the Iraqi government to progress, at all, but instead just throw in more troops and money into this "surge" that hasn't done near what it was supposed to. He needs to grow some balls with Iraq and threaten their puppet government with losing any and all support from our troops if they don't put forth the effort in preparing their troops and government for a solo fight. I don't like the fact that he feels he can order Miers to defy a congressional subpoena to testify in court. Let's not forget about him ordering Rove not to testify, either. Recently, I've changed my stance on stem cell research. While I will NEVER support abortion (I think it should be illegal), as long as it is legal, the embryos should be able to be used to further studies to cure diseases. As disgusted as I am by abortion, why not let this travesty be used to benefit others? Now that abortion is still legal, but certain stem cell research is, there's a lot of wasted potential. Bush is supposed to support the shrinking of our government, not the expanding of it, yet here he is supporting the ignoring of our Bill of Rights. Just shut the fuck up and GTFO. You're annoying "libertarianism" is annoying the piss out of me. You're "I want to walk the middle of the line" bullshit so "I'm never wrong" is getting on my nerves. Libertarianism has NOTHING to do with "walking the middle of the line". I'm still what some would consider to be "Republitarian" which, as the name suggests, is still conservative. None of what I said in what you quoted is irrational, at all. Give me one good reason why I should give up my freedoms so some other half-wit feels safe? Why should I support a war that I would never dream of fighting, especially if there's no real progress? Sure, we're not losing as many liberals would like to claim, but we're certainly not forcing Iraq to stand on their own. Disallowing for stem-cell research doesn't deter women from getting abortions. The whole idea of an abortion is so self-important that the women don't dare think outside of their realm of comfort, so why should others have to suffer when there could be some progresses made?
I'll say this in fear of changing the topic's subject matter: You can get stem cells from places other than embryos you know. They're present in full grown adult people.
You are all missing a valid point. IF "drafting" is imposed then all the shit that you are talking still won't stop you from going. Get used to the idea that it could happen. World wars, Vietnam ...........and the rest. They went and some didn't come back, but they still went, regardless of wether they wanted to or not You are no exception, grow up and get ready to put your boots on
And... noone said they wouldn't go.
puddle_splasher wrote on Tue, 14 August 2007 09:36 You are all missing a valid point. IF "drafting" is imposed then all the shit that you are talking still won't stop you from going. Get used to the idea that it could happen. World wars, Vietnam ...........and the rest. They went and some didn't come back, but they still went, regardless of wether they wanted to or not You are no exception, grow up and get ready to put your boots on Yeah, but the world wars were kinda more important than the W.M. (oil in).D Iraq.
puddle_splasher wrote on Tue, 14 August 2007 04:36 You are all missing a valid point. IF "drafting" is imposed then all the shit that you are talking still won't stop you from going. Get used to the idea that it could happen. World wars, Vietnam ...........and the rest. They went and some didn't come back, but they still went, regardless of wether they wanted to or not You are no exception, grow up and get ready to put your boots on Wait, so let me get this straight. We all should just shut up and accept the fact that our government can force conscription and will probably do so? That's what we would call being a tool. You see, this type of government that we have in America, it's not like yours. I know the idea's foreign, but try and follow me. We have this type of government called a republic. This is where the people elect people into office that they want to represent them in the government. These special people that are elected then make decisions for us normal people in the big, scary government. How do us normal people vote for these special people? Well, we all talk about our views and opinions, then we make decisions based on that, and these special people that want our votes then agrees with one side or the other. This is what we call partisanship. There are two big ones in America, but that's not the topic we're going to get into. Once these special people get elected, they don't stay elected for the rest of their lives. They only serve for a certain amount of time that we call terms. In order for these special people to be elected again, they have to make the people that voted for them before vote for them again. How do they do that? They do that by listening to what the people have to say. Also, if these special people don't hear from us normal people, they have nobody to listen to and can make big boo boos and get away with it. Do you see where I'm getting at now? If us normal people voice our opinions to those special people, they will listen to us normal people and make good decisions in the big, scary government. Edit: It really isn't that fucking hard to understand. If you keep your mouth shut, the elected assholes will do whatever the fuck they please. I don't like trusting half-wits with my money and my freedoms. If I can side with people and make a big enough of a threat to yank these idiots from office, they're not going to fuck with me. If we make it clear that we don't support a draft and will not vote for half-wits who do, they will no longer support a draft, or they will no longer be in office. Trust me, I get your point about how we're going to have to go if a draft is reinstated, but you make it sound like we shouldn't voice our opinion on it because it would be futile to dissent against it. It's opinions like that which make me want to curb stomp some stupid fuckers. Edit2: Telling us to "grow up" and get ready for a draft because we're all disagreeing with it really does show how much of a tool you really are.
lol, the electoral college system is shit and widely regarded in the international opinion as such.
jimmyny wrote on Tue, 14 August 2007 09:56 lol, the electoral college system is shit and widely regarded in the international opinion as such. Yes, I hate the electoral college, but that's just concerning the Presidency. We still elect our Senators and Congressmen. Bush can't enact a draft, and a good majority of both houses won't allow for it. That is, if those morons want to be elected again.
cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 14 August 2007 08:42 puddle_splasher wrote on Tue, 14 August 2007 04:36 You are all missing a valid point. IF "drafting" is imposed then all the shit that you are talking still won't stop you from going. Get used to the idea that it could happen. World wars, Vietnam ...........and the rest. They went and some didn't come back, but they still went, regardless of wether they wanted to or not You are no exception, grow up and get ready to put your boots on Wait, so let me get this straight. We all should just shut up and accept the fact that our government can force conscription and will probably do so? That's what we would call being a tool. You see, this type of government that we have in America, it's not like yours. I know the idea's foreign, but try and follow me. We have this type of government called a republic. This is where the people elect people into office that they want to represent them in the government. These special people that are elected then make decisions for us normal people in the big, scary government. How do us normal people vote for these special people? Well, we all talk about our views and opinions, then we make decisions based on that, and these special people that want our votes then agrees with one side or the other. This is what we call partisanship. There are two big ones in America, but that's not the topic we're going to get into. Once these special people get elected, they don't stay elected for the rest of their lives. They only serve for a certain amount of time that we call terms. In order for these special people to be elected again, they have to make the people that voted for them before vote for them again. How do they do that? They do that by listening to what the people have to say. Also, if these special people don't hear from us normal people, they have nobody to listen to and can make big boo boos and get away with it. Do you see where I'm getting at now? If us normal people voice our opinions to those special people, they will listen to us normal people and make good decisions in the big, scary government. Edit: It really isn't that fucking hard to understand. If you keep your mouth shut, the elected assholes will do whatever the fuck they please. I don't like trusting half-wits with my money and my freedoms. If I can side with people and make a big enough of a threat to yank these idiots from office, they're not going to fuck with me. If we make it clear that we don't support a draft and will not vote for half-wits who do, they will no longer support a draft, or they will no longer be in office. Trust me, I get your point about how we're going to have to go if a draft is reinstated, but you make it sound like we shouldn't voice our opinion on it because it would be futile to dissent against it. It's opinions like that which make me want to curb stomp some stupid fuckers. Edit2: Telling us to "grow up" and get ready for a draft because we're all disagreeing with it really does show how much of a tool you really are. Politicians are liars. Every one of them. They could say they don't support the draft one minute, and after elected, could support it the next minute. Saying you would go if a draft was instated doesn't make you a tool. It's doing your duty for your country. It doesn't matter if your ideals conflict with it or not.
Jecht wrote on Tue, 14 August 2007 14:58 Politicians are liars. Every one of them. They could say they don't support the draft one minute, and after elected, could support it the next minute. Saying you would go if a draft was instated doesn't make you a tool. It's doing your duty for your country. It doesn't matter if your ideals conflict with it or not. Sure, they could support it, but then they would be hard pressed to find support next election. That's not anywhere near what I said. I don't consider anybody a tool for not doing drugs simply because they're illegal. I was saying that saying we need to grow up and get ready for it like we shouldn't have an opinion is being a tool. I don't get the whole blindly following politicians thing.
If the draft is reinstated for a war and you don't go to help your country, I'll shoot you personally.
DarkDemin wrote on Tue, 14 August 2007 15:46 If the draft is reinstated for a war and you don't go to help your country, I'll shoot you personally. I don't worry about the draft being reinstated, but I would go if I had to. Also knowing that I probably wouldn't be fit for combat.
If you are naive enough to think that having a discussion on "being drafted for war" is going to come to the attention of the Goverment then think again. You are being a "tool". YOU CAN'T STOP WHAT THE GOVERMENT WANTS. YOU VOTED THEM IN AND WILL DO AS YOUR TOLD!! EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE CONCEPT OF WAR. Your discussions will do nothing but make you angry. As for that old chestnut "I am not fit"!!!! YOU WILL BE AFTER BASIC TRAINING. Failing that its time for the feathers.
..... The way i look at the war in Iraq is this: 1. We are losing a lot of good men and wemen over there. 2. We are in a stalemate. 3. if we pull out of over there, the insurgenest will then realize that they won, and start planning to bomb us again. (or does no one here remember 9/11, big planes into the world trade center, and the pentagon??) no win situation. but the worst of two evils is pulling out, and then getting hit by a nuke.
ether way this war will be going on for years to come. i personally would skip drafting you can call me a coward but i have to much to loose over here and im not selfish. if i didn't i probably would i have experience in the military lifestyle. but drafting for an unjust war is wrong ether way.
puddle_splasher wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 05:53 If you are naive enough to think that having a discussion on "being drafted for war" is going to come to the attention of the Goverment then think again. You are being a "tool". YOU CAN'T STOP WHAT THE GOVERMENT WANTS. YOU VOTED THEM IN AND WILL DO AS YOUR TOLD!! EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE CONCEPT OF WAR. Your discussions will do nothing but make you angry. As for that old chestnut "I am not fit"!!!! YOU WILL BE AFTER BASIC TRAINING. Failing that its time for the feathers. Yeah, you're an idiot. I try and explain even the simplest of concepts, and it goes straight over your head.
The Government doesn't do whatever they want, they do whatever they think will get them voted in again. Right now a draft would be suicide. People don't feel as if they're at war right now. As soldiers go overseas, life still goes on as per normal on this continent. If you turned off the TVs you'd never know there was a war going on. Think back to WW2. There were German uboats sinking ships off of the eastern coastline constantly, and you got bombed on the other side of the country. Those weren't things you could fight by increasing security at airports and border crossings. This war is different and to think they would call a draft seems foolish to me, especially with the kind of numbers you guys have over there already. If it were me in your situation though, pretending that I wasn't already in the CF and Canada called a draft, I would join before they had a chance to enlist me so that I would at least get a trade that I would enjoy.
Renx wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 10:03 The Government doesn't do whatever they want, they do whatever they think will get them voted in again. good idea, although bush can not get elected again...
jimmyny wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 11:30 good idea, although bush can not get elected again... But the Republican's will be affected by his decisions. Considering most people in government are 'career politicians' , they want to keep their jobs, and will vote with that first and foremost.
scarabguy wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 06:59 3. if we pull out of over there, the insurgenest will then realize that they won, and start planning to bomb us again. (or does no one here remember 9/11, big planes into the world trade center, and the pentagon??) All those A-rabs look the same to me too.
puddle_splasher wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 04:53 YOU CAN'T STOP WHAT THE GOVERMENT WANTS. YOU VOTED THEM IN AND WILL DO AS YOUR TOLD!! ddermmm governments are employees of the people, not the other way around
Spoony wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 16:02 puddle_splasher wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 04:53 YOU CAN'T STOP WHAT THE GOVERMENT WANTS. YOU VOTED THEM IN AND WILL DO AS YOUR TOLD!! ddermmm governments are employees of the people, not the other way around It's mentality like his that makes government as powerful as it is. He just continues to further my accusation of him being a tool.
cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 08:28 Spoony wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 16:02 puddle_splasher wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 04:53 YOU CAN'T STOP WHAT THE GOVERMENT WANTS. YOU VOTED THEM IN AND WILL DO AS YOUR TOLD!! ddermmm governments are employees of the people, not the other way around It's mentality like his that makes government as powerful as it is. He just continues to further my accusation of him being a tool. Interesting thing. One of the reasons The Second Amendment was inserted the American Constitution (Right to bear arms) by the Founding Fathers was so that people could resist the government, and military. Historians even posit that the Founding Fathers assumed America would undergo an armed civil revolution every 20-30 years, in order to keep the government afraid of it's citizens, and therefore, elected officials would govern with the country in mind. The government is supposed to work for YOU. Not the other way around.
i live in central mississippi, and one of our senators is retireing next election season. recently he hasn't listened to anyone or any thing that dosent fill his pockets. if his choice is to follow us or follow the company that will give him 5 million bucks, he ignores us the people.
No, Politicians follow the will of their political party. It's kind of sad really.
No, he's right. They follow the will of the companies that fuel their campaigns. They also throw in a few treats for the normal citizens by attaching money grants onto bills, and maybe voting in favor of the citizens.
thats why socalist partys that are funded by unions get my vote
jimmyny wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 09:48 thats why socalist partys that are funded by unions get my vote I am going to go out on a limb and guess that's sarcasm. At least, I'm hoping it's sarcasm.
why would it be sarcastic?? socalist partys take some funding from trade unions, which are funded by there members, mainly working class people. Americans liked tony blair right?
I hate Socialism and labor unions. >.>
The whole idea of government-controlled equality is just a fantasy dream. I don't know about you, but I don't like my government spending more of my money than I'd like. Maybe you're used to it, but I couldn't imagine having the government take half of my income and spend it on coked-up assholes living on the street using my money to fuel their addiction. Labor unions just further the whole, "we demand everything and expect to give as little back as possible". I understand the purpose of trying to protect the workers' rights, but the teacher's union in America is a prime example of socialism gone awry.
cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 10:47 The whole idea of government-controlled equality is just a fantasy dream. I don't know about you, but I don't like my government spending more of my money than I'd like. Maybe you're used to it, but I couldn't imagine having the government take half of my income and spend it on coked-up assholes living on the street using my money to fuel their addiction. Labor unions just further the whole, "we demand everything and expect to give as little back as possible". I understand the purpose of trying to protect the workers' rights, but the teacher's union in America is a prime example of socialism gone awry. If workers can't band together and protect their rights, who will?
GoArmy44 wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 12:13 cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 10:47 The whole idea of government-controlled equality is just a fantasy dream. I don't know about you, but I don't like my government spending more of my money than I'd like. Maybe you're used to it, but I couldn't imagine having the government take half of my income and spend it on coked-up assholes living on the street using my money to fuel their addiction. Labor unions just further the whole, "we demand everything and expect to give as little back as possible". I understand the purpose of trying to protect the workers' rights, but the teacher's union in America is a prime example of socialism gone awry. If workers can't band together and protect their rights, who will? I didn't say they can't band together, but I don't think they should have any special rights. I think if they want to band together to get higher wages, then let them, but if the business wants to replace those ungrateful workers, then they should be able to do that, too. The Teacher's Union gets to the point where no teacher can get a bonus because that would be unfair to other, less productive teachers. Let's not forget to mention that it's nearly impossible to fire teachers. In a lot of cases, the schools will have bad teachers go to a different building to spend their day, while still being paid because schools can't fire them. There has to be a balance between the employer and the employee. They naturally have that balance, and it throws it all off when the government tries to step in.
I am fairly sure most of Labour's funding (Tony Blair's party) came from large single donations from people, not unions, despite what the party's traditional ethos was.
cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 12:47 The whole idea of government-controlled equality is just a fantasy dream. I don't know about you, but I don't like my government spending more of my money than I'd like. Maybe you're used to it, but I couldn't imagine having the government take half of my income and spend it on coked-up assholes living on the street using my money to fuel their addiction. Labor unions just further the whole, "we demand everything and expect to give as little back as possible". I understand the purpose of trying to protect the workers' rights, but the teacher's union in America is a prime example of socialism gone awry. The point is to get them working and paying taxes too, not just to get them off drugs. The end result is better for everyone. And to stay on topic, another factor is probably to bolster the country's "fit for military service" numbers in case of a draft
Renx wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 13:55 cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 12:47 The whole idea of government-controlled equality is just a fantasy dream. I don't know about you, but I don't like my government spending more of my money than I'd like. Maybe you're used to it, but I couldn't imagine having the government take half of my income and spend it on coked-up assholes living on the street using my money to fuel their addiction. Labor unions just further the whole, "we demand everything and expect to give as little back as possible". I understand the purpose of trying to protect the workers' rights, but the teacher's union in America is a prime example of socialism gone awry. The point is to get them working and paying taxes too, not just to get them off drugs. The end result is better for everyone. And to stay on topic, another factor is probably to bolster the country's "fit for military service" numbers in case of a draft Nobody should be forced to care about the "common good". I'm not going to spend your money, regardless if it's for a "worthy" cause, so I don't expect mine to be spent for anything besides on services for myself like law enforcement and education. Let me and others donate to charity if I want to. I work to live my life, not so some half-wit can live his/hers.
cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 15:28 Spoony wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 16:02 puddle_splasher wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 04:53 YOU CAN'T STOP WHAT THE GOVERMENT WANTS. YOU VOTED THEM IN AND WILL DO AS YOUR TOLD!! ddermmm governments are employees of the people, not the other way around It's mentality like his that makes government as powerful as it is. He just continues to further my accusation of him being a tool. The Goverment may well be the employee. But they all have their own political agenda ahead of them. They will tell you what they think you want to hear and then stick the knife into your back as you turn away. During the 4 year term they do what they want and its only after that time that we really get the chance to force them out. Very rarely will any Goverment leaders ideas and concepts totally agree with any individual. But the big one with the younger generation is WAR. Its not wrong to fear war, but I believe its wrong not to fight for freedom. If that means going to war because your Goverment, that you elected, gets us to that position, whereby our peace and liberty has to be sacrificed in order to retain our peace, then so be it. We will march. As for being a tool. I beg to differ. I cast my vote but in a democratic country whereby the majority wins, I dont throw a strop and say "Im not going to war and I may be unfit to do so". Keeping the peace sometimes means war, that seems like a simple concept to me.
puddle_splasher wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 16:58 cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 15:28 Spoony wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 16:02 puddle_splasher wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 04:53 YOU CAN'T STOP WHAT THE GOVERMENT WANTS. YOU VOTED THEM IN AND WILL DO AS YOUR TOLD!! ddermmm governments are employees of the people, not the other way around It's mentality like his that makes government as powerful as it is. He just continues to further my accusation of him being a tool. The Goverment may well be the employee. But they all have their own political agenda ahead of them. They will tell you what they think you want to hear and then stick the knife into your back as you turn away. During the 4 year term they do what they want and its only after that time that we really get the chance to force them out. Very rarely will any Goverment leaders ideas and concepts totally agree with any individual. But the big one with the younger generation is WAR. Its not wrong to fear war, but I believe its wrong not to fight for freedom. If that means going to war because your Goverment, that you elected, gets us to that position, whereby our peace and liberty has to be sacrificed in order to retain our peace, then so be it. We will march. As for being a tool. I beg to differ. I cast my vote but in a democratic country whereby the majority wins, I dont throw a strop and say "Im not going to war and I may be unfit to do so". Keeping the peace sometimes means war, that seems like a simple concept to me. Do you ever ask yourself why I would ever dare to call you an idiot? Rest assured, it's not because your opinion differs from mine. It's because every point I make seems to fly over your head. Explain to me how you're not a tool when you continually say that there's no point in discussing this because the government will do as it pleases. You act as if we shouldn't question the government because they're the government and we can't stop them. What's the point in a democratic government system if we can't stop the government? The simple fact of the matter is that we can. As I said before, it's your attitude that lets the government take in all the power it wants.
Ask any soldier who they'd rather have watching their back in the thick of battle... 1. someone who, like them, has made the conscious choice to serve in the military, put themselves through the rigorous training knowing full well they may die in battle 2. someone who never wanted to be a soldier but was forced into it
cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 09:50 I hate Socialism and labor unions. >.> Labor Unions aren't necessarily a bad thing. When I worked for Meijer, sure, it sucked having them suck my paycheck dry. For Spartan however, they actually serve a purpose and I like being part of their union. Alas, my last day is today though. No more making $12 an hour doing temp-work. Back to college I go! Socialism can't work though. The former Soviet Union is proof that it's an unfair system.
I know labor unions aren't ALL bad. I just remarked on the evil potential that they have by giving the teachers' union as an example.
CarrierII wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 11:49 I am fairly sure most of Labour's funding (Tony Blair's party) came from large single donations from people, not unions, despite what the party's traditional ethos was. The BASTARD certainly fucked it into the FBU!!!! (Fire Brigade Union) after all the money that they received from us. A donation comes off my wage weekly, towards the FBU, towards Blair and his fuckin (not fucking, too polite) idiots.
cheesesoda wrote on Fri, 17 August 2007 06:32 I know labor unions aren't ALL bad. I just remarked on the evil potential that they have by giving the teachers' union as an example. I think the "evil" lies in the way that a union can destabilize an economy or society by the actions it takes. Teachers are an integral part of our society, so if all the teachers picked up the pickets, leaving no one to teach children, society as a whole would have a problem which seems selfish in my opinion. I think this applies to all public services of this sort(including vital industries). Of course not all unions represent that kind of work, my dad for example was and is still in the plumbers and pipe fitters union. It provides health care and other much needed benefits we would not normally get to our entire family. And while it has had its history of strikes you don't really read about them in newspapers or history books because they did not cause the widespread damage that public service strikes would cause.
Hey everyone! Get ready for war with Iran! To be honest, if the US does actually attack Iran, I will believe that 9/11 was an inside job to invade the middle east.
If the US invade Iran then I'll have to retract most of my previous statements.
Canadacdn wrote on Mon, 20 August 2007 23:35 Hey everyone! Get ready for war with Iran! To be honest, if the US does actually attack Iran, I will believe that 9/11 was an inside job to invade the middle east. this has come from the media which lies like no other orginazation and exagerates to the limits. i would like the media to be reformed. we are neutral and wouldnt invade iran we would lose all support. and the 9/11 conspiracy about the government is stupid i dont care what you say. Everyone knows that the muslums have hated great britian and europe because of the crusades and the UN taking alot of land away to give to isreal, they are doing it to get back at us. If you dont beleive me look at your history books. especially the crusades. This is practically the crusades all over again.
Quote: If you dont beleive me look at your history books. especially the crusades. This is practically the crusades all over again. I don't really get what they are all mad about, I mean yeah we(Christians) killed a great many Muslims, Jews, and yes Christians in the crusades but do they not recall in their history classes the conquest of Hispania and the Battle of Tours over 350 years earlier?
Renx wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 12:55 And to stay on topic, another factor is probably to bolster the country's "fit for military service" numbers in case of a draft staying on topic.. there are two kinds of wars: one i call just a war; it goes on but doesn't really affect the country fighting the other is a total war which is when the country puts all its resources in to fighting he war. losing a total war usually means the end of that nation. a draft is used during a total war, like ww1 or 2. all available men are given guns and told to fight or make the guns. all women are told to get to work too. the war in Iraq isn't a total war, and thus it doesn't affect our daily lives. turn off your tv or radio and you could forget it is going on...
scarabguy wrote on Fri, 24 August 2007 18:43 there are two kinds of wars: one i call just a war; it goes on but doesn't really affect the country fighting the other is a total war which is when the country puts all its resources in to fighting he war. losing a total war usually means the end of that nation. a draft is used during a total war, like ww1 or 2. all available men are given guns and told to fight or make the guns. all women are told to get to work too. A total war is when a draft is used and losing a total war usually means the end of that nation? Then by your definition explain Vietnam?!?! I have friends serving in Iraq and Afghanistan and they are scared shittless everyday. While I am against the war wholly and in everyway possible I will support my countries troops* and I pray they return home SAFE and SOON. * this is just an exception insert, unfortunately it seems every army that has been deployed in Iraq has had some accusations of ill treatment, murder, torture or any other form of war crime against them. For the troops over there that act less than honourably I do not and will not support at all, they are just thugs, murderers and bastards with rifles. Incidents of this nature would probably increase if a draft were brought into effect, because any prisoner would be acted against resentfully, like they are the reason that person is here and if they just removed that reason......well you've seen and heard it in the news I don't have to explain further! This is just my opinion, you don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it, but you have to respect that I am entitled to it as you all are to yours. Some of the basic freedoms we fought for in the First and Second World Wars so don't flame me!
i mean, when drafts do show up, its usually during a tatal war. yes, the draft was used during vietnam, but we didn't put all our resources in to it, so it wasn't TOTAL WAR. *puts flame jacket on* yes i made a mistake, but only a N00B tries to find every fault in what i said next thing i know, you'll be correcting my grammar.. Edit: can i borrow your signature?
Keep in mind the only reason the draft was used in Vietnam was because it had been in more or less continuous use since World War 2 (a total war). So really nothing you said was wrong; if anything, you were a bit unclear.
Quote: While I am against the war wholly and in everyway possible I will support my countries troops Tell me how you can support the troops but not what they're trying to accomplish. The "we support the troops but not the war" is the most senseless compaign I've ever heard. You either support them or you don't, this middle ground people try to stand on simply does not exist. And about the definitions of war... I'm not entirely sure about Iraq, but in Afghanistan it's not a war because frankly we're not at war with anyone. Saying that we're at war with the Taliban is no different than saying the Police are at war with the Hells Angels. The ISAF is just what the name implies - a security assistance force - obviously there to assist the government in regaining control and rebuilding the country. "War" is nothing more than a term used by the media to grab our attention right now.
This article explains how well the reconstruction in Iraq is going, and how intent the Bush administration is on winning this illegal war.