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C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
I originally wasn't going to make a thread about this, but of the 6 or 7 testers that have played it each one says they loved it. And since another one of my threads was being topic-jacked, I decided to make its own thread. The map is called Epocilation. The root word is Epoc which means "Period/Event in time" More on why it is named that at a later date. (I don't want to make promises I can't keep, lets keep it at that) Here are some screen shots of the map as of the last build: (All shots taken from lvl edit) Nod base: GDI Base: Main feature - Duel Layer Bridge: Battle under the bridge: View of city A: View of city B: The map may seem symmetrical.. it sorta is.. but when I say symmetrical.. I mean C&C_Under symmetrical. Meaning it isn't exactly the same on each side. In fact each side is unique, but it is divided up equally making it symmetrical. In those images, it shows the bases have 2 silos. Well I have been having problems getting both to work correctly simultaneously, SO I have decided to remove one silo from each team, leaving only one for each team. In exchange, I am giving each team a repair pad. Additionally, something that I have, but has not been featured in any of the past builds, are destructible walls that I am going to be placeing around the bases. (For those of you who tested, and noticed the side base defense that is going to be a side entrance) I am currently fixing some bugs that I have found and have been found for me. A list of things fixed for those of you who tested it are: -Found and included all reported missing textures -Remade smoke emitters to release 3/5 less particles and also made each particle much more opaque. This, I hope, will fix the FPS dip that traveling through the smoke presented. (If not, limit the dip) -Corrected targeting on remains of light tank. -Fixed the problem with Recon bikes rolling on their back side and blowing up. -Fixed missing obelisk interior items (PT, MCT) -Added destruction announcements to Construction Yard. (Working on making them audible) And That is all that I fixed now. So yea, that is what I am working on, and when it comes out, I hope you all enjoy it.
Dude, that looks awesome.
"Woah, nice graphics! I'd like to get my hands on that game!"
This map is the best map I've played in a LONG LONG time.
Goddamn! That is a nice map. -MathK1LL *goes speechless*
I spotted something wrong with it, its too good. You need to fix that bug or people will complain. Infact, i'm going to see if i can get you banned from these forums(!)
Very nice work, looks great It does look a tad big though so stanks will rule there probably O_o
GDI are so gone with 2 Obs guarding
Dude... Awsome... Release this now... Now... NOWW!!!!
Even though this map looks awesome, I think it will still have problems with the side attacks, Looks as though with the (main) defenses both in front, then the vechs rushing can get behind say the Ref and Bar, before the defenses can injure them enough. But, what can I say, New Maps usually suck, this one doesn't.
Yeah, it really does look nice. If the map is really is large, then like Zunnie says, stanks will own the map and therefore the battle field. I would recommend adding maybe one or two more AGT's to the GDI's base to off set Nods large advantage. Otherwise, Nod will always easy win as they launch stank rushs over and over. Also, when you release the map, will you also release the .lvl file for it aswell? Game-Maps.NET will be glad to host your maps and files.
Trust me, I already thought of that. The bases are well defended. I first off positioned the AGTs so that they have the best angles possible. Next I made climbing on the side cliff to the GDI base pretty hard without the AGT spotting you. Also, as I said in the OP, each base will be surrounded by destructible walls. There are going to be Guard towers located on the side and back ends of the base. *EDIT* OH! LOL, the screen shots didn't show it XD Guys don't worry, the bases separated from the map because of a cliff that runs along side the base. Here, this is an OLD image, but it is how the bases are seporated:
..ran out of time to edit: Ok, the next version isn't quite ready yet BUT I want to be ready for when it is. So for those of you who want to do an alpha test for version 1.09, then say so here. I am taking ONLY THE FIRST 3 PEOPLE. (5 in total, 2 people already volunteered)
Gimme
Have you thought about adding Nods Shine of Nod and Advance Comm Centers?
I have, and as in past maps that I tried that = fail. -First of all, I don't have all the required textures/PT images. -No room in bases -Going for a "traditional" AOW feel for the map. I don't want to set up superweapon structures.
razorblade001 wrote on Sat, 21 July 2007 12:54 I have, and as in past maps that I tried that = fail. -First of all, I don't have all the required textures/PT images. -No room in bases -Going for a "traditional" AOW feel for the map. I don't want to set up superweapon structures. Ah ok, well, cant wait to play it then.
You can always remove one tiberium silo
Haven't seen a better looking map in a while. I'll be waiting for this release.
razorblade001 wrote on Fri, 20 July 2007 23:10 I In those images, it shows the bases have 2 silos. Well I have been having problems getting both to work correctly simultaneously, SO I have decided to remove one silo from each team, leaving only one for each team. In exchange, I am giving each team a repair pad.
This map is looking really nice. Definitely one of the best Renegade maps this year.
Only possible problem I see atm is the distance to the base defences. If the open part to the base defences is too large you can't really rush, so please keep that in mind. Besides that, it looks SWEET!
EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sat, 21 July 2007 16:24 Only possible problem I see atm is the distance to the base defences. If the open part to the base defences is too large you can't really rush, so please keep that in mind. Besides that, it looks SWEET! Shouldnt be a problem, there are many maps I played in that have a same setup, it all needs is a big rush.
It is set up so that your able to group up and turn the corner of the cliff in order to be hit by the single base defense. If your team is stupid, they would use the road and drive directly between the 2. This is how it is set: _________^^^BASE^^^________ | | | {BD1} {BD2} |C | |L | |I | |F | |F | |S CLIFFS | | _________| --- EDIT: Alright, the next alpha is progressing nicely, I added in lighting for some of the street lights and neon glow for the Tiberium fields.. except now, I have hit a snag. Somehow, beyond my knowledge, all the textures that were reported missing and were fixed PLUS more have magically stopped appearing. This isn't much of a problem, I will just re-add them into the level's directory. The main problem I am having now is with the smoke emitters scattered around the map. I used to just have normal emitters (Dummy Object) that gave out the smoke, but that is a problem because that sort of emitter will only work on the host's computer when played multiplayer. So I was working on a way to attach the emitter to an object and throw the object in the map. But something odd has happened now, just as mysteriously as the textures vanished, the emitters stopped working! I figured since I was going to replace them anyway, I should delete them. So I deleted them, created the object that is supposed to release the smoke... but it doesn't work <_< and I don't know why... I had another model that released smoke for another level, I took that model, renamed the emitter, and then tried that.. and THAT doesn't work... I made sure that the emitter was located in my level directory.. but I don't get why it isn't emitting smoke... I even tried creating a new object from scratch following the Tutorials at Renhelp.com but still no success... If anyone knows another way to attach an emitter to an object in gmax and have it emit in game, help would be appreciated EDIT DOS: I just viewed the object that emits the smoke in the W3D Viewer.. and it apparently works there... I'll go re-add it to lvl editor and try it again.. EDIT THRISE: Holy razor is a n00b. I just managed to glare at the bottom of the screen.. lvl edit says: "TimeManager::Update: warning, frame 4151 was slow (32915 ms) Attempting to load: F:\Program Files\RenegadePublicTools\LevelEdit\C&C_Epocilation\levels\EMITTER.W3D FAILED TO FIND ANIM IN AnimCollisionManagerClass::Internal_Set_Animation("EMITTER.EMITTER") Targa: Failed to open file "grey3.tga" TimeManager::Update: warning, frame 4617 was slow (39562 ms) TimeManager::Update: warning, frame 4618 was slow (5005 ms) TimeManager::Update: warning, frame 4620 was slow (13913 ms) TimeManager::Update: warning, frame 4621 was slow (5238 ms)" Meaning.. that the texture problem I said I was having above.. is the same problem I am having with the emitter <_<
I have the latest alpha ready. If you want to test it, reply here, and watch your PM box. I am only taking the first 3 people.
Screenshots look nice
Shit.. These guys beat me to it. But I guess I had my turn.
I love to test it aswell, maybe we all can get together and play it on a server.
For the first 3 people that requested to test, check your PM box.
But I asked way before those 3
Sorry, I guess I didn't see it Well, for those people who did get it.. file front seems to be doing some maintenence and the file can't be downloaded at the moment. Quote: Downloads & Videos - We apologize that some files may be temporarily inaccessible and new streaming videos will not be encoded while we perform some system maintenance. I am going to keep it up for a while, but if it persists I will find a new place to host the map.
Maps bugs as of right now 1.Nod harvester runs into the strip control tower >.> 2.Non of the PT work save the CY's 2. 3.Silos messed up (image) 4.Shouldn't there be a transition between pavement and dirt in the city? 5.You can fly through the building that covers part of the road/walkway (image)*Fly UNDER the covered part then you can go up but you get stuck* 6.A lot of smoke emitter will lag in big games >.> And seems this map is made for BIG teams. 7.GDI harvester runs into an AGT to the right if your looking to the outside of base. 8.None of the base defense work D: 9.Bots are worth like 100 points each >.> 10.No Tiberium Silo damage sounds. Same with CY. 11.Nice GDI Sign We save lives! Other than that really nice work man!
sadukar09 wrote on Sun, 22 July 2007 11:36 Maps bugs as of right now 2.Non of the PT work save the CY's 2. 8.None of the base defense work D: 10.No Tiberium Silo damage sounds. Same with CY. Other than that really nice work man! HE didn't put the pt things in yet, nor the base defense building controllers. He told you that when you sent the beta. Same with the tib silo and CY sounds.
oh...forgot At least I found some map bugs
Yes you did, and you did a nice job too! About the harvesters, I forgot to mention in the PM, I didn't set up path finding for them so they just drive off where ever they want to... And bots are only temporary, they are just there for fun. Not going to be in the final version. But thanks, you found some stuff I didn't know about. Quote: 11.Nice GDI Sign Very Happy We save lives! Thx, did you see the Nod one?
Edit button goes away too fast Ok, I fixed most of the bugs you listed. I am now looking into a fix for the emitters lagging in big games (IF and only if the map is played on servers..) How is this: I make 2 different emitters. One permenent, and another one that only releases 2000 particals. I did the math, 2000 particals takes about 10-15 min to be released. Once those particals are released, the emitter will stop functioning. I am going to replace about 5 or 6 emitters with the 2000 partical emitters. This should hopefully reduce any lag after 10-15 mins of play. Because after that, battles should be getting pretty heavy, and a better frame rate would be needed. ^ ^ ^ Is that a good idea?
If you ram the hummer into a vehichle like this one you either respawn back at base or enter white hell. Need to be semi-carefull driving hummer Some cliff errors: In some places you can see stuff your not supposed to: The Nod Conyard MCT has a glitch:
I was havening the same problem with the silo, but I just thought it was my computer, because my laptop didn't seem to have the problem. So what I did was just delete the silo and made a new one (same model) It was probably a problem with the double silos I used to have in. I am going to go and test it out now. @ Reborn, ah yes, my Recon Humm-vee. That is going in as an extra for GDI. (I might make it a normal vehicle however, to balance giving Nod Recon bikes) Those light tanks have been giving me problems.. I am going to go replace them. About the borders, they are as good as fixed. And also, the Nod CY MCT, That was something I rigged up in Level editor. I will go move it up more so you can see the screen. The Construction yard model itself didn't have an MCT.
The recon hummers weapons weak Give it a chaingun? or maybe change to recon bikes missile into mrls/stank rockets
I would recommend giving both teams more vehicles. GDI > FieldTS version of the Med tank and the MRLS with the moveable turret. 2ed choice humvee with the toe missile. Nod > Chem Flamer tank?, buyable recon bikes. Also, maybe buyable harvs like in dedux.
This is what is planned as far as vehicles go: -Both teams will have buyable harvesters to harvest for their team. -Do to reasons beyond my control, which Reborn pointed out, I am now confirming the Recon Humm-vee as a GDI Extra, and not apart of the normal line up. -Nod WILL have buyable recon bikes. The ones that spawn now are the ones that will be purchasable. -Recon bike ammo is going to be changed to MRLS ammo. -GDI MRLS will have rotating turret. This is what I had planned for vehicles. Any other changes I will look into and think about. As far as the Recon Humm-vee's weapon goes, I did that on purpose. I didn't want people to use the Recon humm-vee over the normal humm-vee for obvious reasons. It is for reconnaissance, and reconnaissance only. Due to its speed, it sometimes get shot into twilight when you ram one of the scorched vehicles, and since I don't want to remove the map decorations, nor do I want to adjust the humm-vees settings, I am making it an Extra so that it won't be a problem when people find themselves floating in a cloud of white in the middle of nowhere in a game. Now, onto those cliff errors that Reborn pointed out. I don't think those are a BIG problem, so I am going to lay off on trying to fix them at the moment. If it becomes a bigger problem I will go and fix them. (Plus I don't know how I would fix them X_x)
Maybe give GDI a GDI recon bike. If you want the model for it I'll give you a link. P.S. @ Reborn: Sorry for leaving your server while testing, my internet shut off.
How do you like the idea of Nod having 1 or 2 SAM sites?
Put the SAM sites at the back of the base so Orcas can't escape
That is where I was going to put them. I am going to put some guard towers in the back of GDI's base because those are good with air.
How about an AGT with no missiles? In TD they were suppose to shoot aircrafts too...
razorblade001 wrote on Sun, 22 July 2007 20:47 This is what is planned as far as vehicles go: -Both teams will have buyable harvesters to harvest for their team. -Do to reasons beyond my control, which Reborn pointed out, I am now confirming the Recon Humm-vee as a GDI Extra, and not apart of the normal line up. -Nod WILL have buyable recon bikes. The ones that spawn now are the ones that will be purchasable. -Recon bike ammo is going to be changed to MRLS ammo. -GDI MRLS will have rotating turret. This is what I had planned for vehicles. Any other changes I will look into and think about. As far as the Recon Humm-vee's weapon goes, I did that on purpose. I didn't want people to use the Recon humm-vee over the normal humm-vee for obvious reasons. It is for reconnaissance, and reconnaissance only. Due to its speed, it sometimes get shot into twilight when you ram one of the scorched vehicles, and since I don't want to remove the map decorations, nor do I want to adjust the humm-vees settings, I am making it an Extra so that it won't be a problem when people find themselves floating in a cloud of white in the middle of nowhere in a game. Now, onto those cliff errors that Reborn pointed out. I don't think those are a BIG problem, so I am going to lay off on trying to fix them at the moment. If it becomes a bigger problem I will go and fix them. (Plus I don't know how I would fix them X_x) You could make vehicle blockers around the decorations, I think this would fix it. If you make sure the vehicle blocker is outside the vehicle.
That is a good idea, why didn't I think of that <_< Thanks!
This map is bloody excellent mate, great job! i would to test it @dthdealer: your sig... LOL! (sorry IronWarrior but it is kinda true...)
You can fly/drive inside the hand and the nod power plant, lol. And your c4 bounce off of the mcts..
Would you mind giving me a screen shot of you flying/driving into those structures, please?
Power: Hand: Also, the silos work fine for me: Edit: Oh yeah, the airstrip windows are opaque. This map is pretty incredible mate! Nice work.
At that position just move a bit to the front and rise EDIT:Guard towers work but turrets don't :/ And you can get stuck on this part of the CY http://www.n00bstories.com/image.fetch.php?id=1072130641 P.S. Remove the music and add like Radio or some better TD music
Ok, seems like depending on your computer, the map gives different errors... I'll go put vehicle blockers around the buildings to prevent going inside them with vehicles. I will put something to stop you from getting stuck on CY, and for that part of the building you can fly under and go through, that was the first thing that I fixed . Oh, and for music, I am experimenting with different types. Last version had different music too.
Other fan maps, different script versions, there are lots of things that will cause different errors. Its very annoying lol.
Hmm, Ok I floodfilled the map to get the harvesters to use the waypaths I gave them.. took like an hour and all of my CPU power, but when I test in game, the harvesters find the Tiberium fields all right, and travel back to the refinery fine... the only problem is that they don't use the waypaths that I told them to follow.. And I fear that this throws the economy off because now they are using their own stupid logic, and the Nod harvester's route is a bit shorter than the GDI harvester's route...
Well if you can, make the GDI harvester harvest more tiberium per load at a slower pace! That happend in one map in APB (Pacific Threat) Allied gets 700 credits faster, while Soviets get 1050 credits slower.
Most of your problem I can help with.... Sounds for CY and Silo's should be working if you include ACK's strings.tdb...which can be found with any of his maps, i have a copy if you need it (inlcude it in your zip, give credit to ACK) just smooth out those cliffs so it isnt black at an angle. 2 silo's should work fine, I used a combonation of scripts for CnC_Last_Stand.. Make sure you dont use a Refinery controller for 1 credit a second...as if the PP goes out, then the Silo is worthless....i forget what scripts i used, but i can find out for you if i can find my LE files on my desktop(on my laptop now) Also make sure you setup the repair script with JFW_repair_zone...this will keep the mines from disappearing! Emmiters can be larger and slower moving to help reduce FPS drop...the more it spits out and faster it goes away, the lower the frame rate will be...ex. 5 big puffs is better then 20 puffs in 10 seconds...I made some nice emmiters for Reborn which had lil to no impact on the frame rate....remember size doesnt matter a small emmiter takes up as much frames as a large one. dont use a dummy object, set your emmiters up as objects (i think been awhile), but proxy them in ren-x and clients will be able to view them. If your adding a rotating turret, please speed up the arty turret...I did this in my maps to balance the 2 long range untis out....or just make the MRLS a lil more, up to you. Send me a PM if you'd like me to test the map...I'd love to run thru it...maybe spot any more errors i can help you with. Looking good, havent seen a good map come out in a while. for the harvy you can do what saduker suggested, or you can put pathfinding blockers right along the whole path, which will leave the harvy with no choice but to follow it.
Is there Vis? Cause I don't see any manual vis points or vis sectors.
Cool cool, some of the things you said I already fixed, but a lot of that is very helpful Like the emitters, I made a fix for that. What I did was made each puff more opaque, but I reduced the rate from 5.6 to 2.8. I also made a second emitter that has a maximum emittion of 2000 particles. 2000 Particles in my emitter takes about 7-12 min to be fully released. By that time, assuming people play it, battles should be getting hotter, and a better frame rate would be needed. I replaced 6 of the 11 emitters with this 2000 version. Also about the harvesters, I just played a game and they were making their own paths, but then I wanted to change teams, but keep my money, so I quit and restarted the map... now the harvesters follow the correct paths I gave them.. odd..
You may need VIS... I'd generate it, its easy to setup in Ren-x...and the only pain is running thru looking for errors, but it will pay off in the long run. im assuming the bases are more then 300 meters(as renegade wont render that far) from each other, so you wont notice much dip in the FPS when running around by yourself. Once you get 32+ players you'll be wishing you had VIS tho... Sucks to work with an old engine like this, but it's something that has to be done, nowadays VIS is a thing of the past.
No, the bases are less than 300. The base patches themselves are about 227meters. And the buildings within are even closer. I'd say about 180. And in any case, I am looking in to adding VIS as we speak.
Looks cool. Are those bots in front or just like free vehicles?
Well, the screen shots of the first page are older builds, before I set up the building controllers, so those are just vehicles for people to search for bugs with. They aren't vehicle bots.
If you have any questions about VIS, just ask...Ive done VIS well over 10 times...Also, whats with the beta, I was hoping to try htis out today when i got home :/
VIS is taking a really... REALLY long time <_< I started doing the Autogen VIS sectors at 9:30 PM, last night. It is currently 1:30 PM, the NEXT DAY and it is just barly halfway done... I only ended up making about 300 somewhat sectors.. but when I added the flying sectors, that is what killed me >.< ..also keep in mind I am doing this on a 2.0GHz P4 with 1.25GB of RAM. ..I need an upgrade..
I didnt think this map was flying enabled...yea, on that machine it will take 20-24 hours, maybe a lil bit more. Can you throw me a link to a beta version so i can check it out?
This is the mother of all maps better than WW made maps
sadukar09 wrote on Fri, 27 July 2007 12:52 This is the mother of all maps better than WW made maps I just died inside.......
w00t finished 1 1/2 days I took some sample points, and now I am just going to give it a solo test in ren. I may have the beta out later today.
Good luck! I always wonder why newer maps can't be added as main maps. When you install Renegade, download all those maps and all... there should be more than that.
Ok, I ran into a problem but I am going to give the testers a choice. You see, for some reason, which I think I know why, the VIS sectors surrounding the base structures and some of the roads didn't generate IDs, and when I try to sample a point say near the Weapons Factory, it is "Rejected due to no VIS ID" So, what I am going to have to do is regenerate the sectors. Which will take another day and a half. (I took out some useless ones.. like some that managed to get over the flight roof (how, I have no Idea) but I also added more to fix the ID problem that I am having now) So my question to those of you who want to test: Should I finish up what needs to be done other than VIS and distribute betas as is, and leave correcting the VIS for the next beta... Or would you rather me take care of the VIS now and get it done with. (Will take another 2 days to release beta)
We need a thing like CNC3 auto tranfer if the player doesnt have the map, except since renegade maps are like 10-20mb large, open a window with internetexplorer/firefox and have the map to download right there....that would be nice.
There should atleast be a link next to each server for available downloads of the maps. And it'll be optional for the hoster to put those links up.
razorblade001 wrote on Fri, 27 July 2007 15:23 So my question to those of you who want to test: Should I finish up what needs to be done other than VIS and distribute betas as is, and leave correcting the VIS for the next beta... Or would you rather me take care of the VIS now and get it done with. (Will take another 2 days to release beta) ^ ^ ^ Need answer to that question ^ ^ ^
How many more releases do you want to do? If you do another beta now, you will have to do another for the vis data. However if you wait till you have finished the vis, there may be the kind of error that requires you to completely rebuild the vis. I would almost recommend you get someone who has a faster computer to run vis. That is, if there is someone you trust
Well, I want to do how ever many it takes. If the map isn't out by the end of the month, so be it. I don't like committing to release dates.
This map looks nice. I really like the idea of dual base defenses. That bridge looks cool.
This map looks awsome, I agree it should be a cp3 map like terrace was, I really like the recon bike handling on terrace lol. I think there should be a feature without rengaurd that when you want to join a server but dont have a map on rotation, it opens up Internet Explorer/firefox and gives you the map...or a exe file that extracts the map to your renegade data directory.
This is what I will do: I am going to fix up some more stuff on the map, add some more features like sounds and stuff, then fix some more of the VIS problems I can fix ATM. I will export a version, then I will Regenerate the VIS. And in this time, if you would like to simply side test a work-in-progress beta build, you can just say you would like to. That ok? I say work in progress beta build because it has a lot of bugs that I am not able to fix at this moment. I will when the vis is done though
Can you PM a link to your latest beta version, Im dying to run around a new map, I'll look for and report all errors I find.
Titan1x77 wrote on Fri, 27 July 2007 07:40 Can you throw me a link to a beta version so i can check it out? Titan1x77 wrote on Thu, 26 July 2007 06:47 Also, whats with the beta, I was hoping to try htis out today when i got home :/ Titan1x77 wrote on Thu, 28 July 2007 08:08 Can you PM a link to your latest beta version, Im dying to run around a new map, I'll look for and report all errors I find. I'm just throwing this out there... but something tells me Titan wants the beta.
Sure Titan, check your PM box. Just a heads up: VIS ERRORS! I need to redo the system (my first time actually making it... but I know what I did wrong and am going to fix it) Especially the recon bike.. The entire bridge disappears O_o.
...could I possibly have the link to? I'm looking for really good examples to go by...
id like a copy of it too, this looks like a must have map.
d00d, you gotta ask Crimson if she can put this on CP3
I will give you two guys a link to the next beta, this is what I call a half beta, because not everything I wanted fixed was fixed. The only reason I gave it to Titan is because he has been asking for it for a while. Plus he is pretty experienced when it comes to mapping, so I wanted to see his opinion.
So far I ran thru the map just a lil bit, pretty big! I like what I see so far, but both teams seem doomed to getting thur, espcially GDI (unless Nod is all in Stanks away from the base, but that equals double trouble for GDI) I was hoping for another way into the base other then the front...but I really havent gotten to play it yet, but i can sort of tell how its going to be with a full game. VIS tips, set it at 4-6....thius will take even longer, but you wont get those errors everywhere....prob just around the doors and windows of the base buildings. It look as if you left it at 16, or maybe 10 or something? I'll play thru it a bit more and look for some errors and bugs....
Titan1x77 wrote on Sun, 29 July 2007 12:15 So far I ran thru the map just a lil bit, pretty big! I like what I see so far, but both teams seem doomed to getting thur, espcially GDI (unless Nod is all in Stanks away from the base, but that equals double trouble for GDI) I was hoping for another way into the base other then the front...but I really havent gotten to play it yet, but i can sort of tell how its going to be with a full game. VIS tips, set it at 4-6....thius will take even longer, but you wont get those errors everywhere....prob just around the doors and windows of the base buildings. It look as if you left it at 16, or maybe 10 or something? I'll play thru it a bit more and look for some errors and bugs.... so its released here?