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Real ID Act and the Threat of a Police State
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ClxR-8VLxD8 I'll refuse a chip/card. Like the guy says at the end of the video, if everybody rejects this invasion of privacy, it will fail.
Re: Real ID Act and the Threat of a Police State
Chips in the human body, yeah, fuck you Mr. Government. I'll die fighting before they ever come near me with crap like that.
Just listen to the guy at the end, "If airliners don't want your custom, let them go bankrupt",
RoShamBo wrote on Mon, 09 July 2007 18:38 Just listen to the guy at the end, "If airliners don't want your custom, let them go bankrupt", I know I'd be bold enough to reject it, but I'm not sure about every other mindless drone in America.
oh sure stick it in my arm... and while you are on it you should put a chip in my brain that makes me think better... a fuck it just rape me already since thats all that is! its really like the government having you... if bush wants to go with this let him get one first then mayb i will do it (prob not). its bullshit and if i need to i would take a ship over to europe than have them stick some shit in me... since knowing how the states are, in 5 years they will find out that this chip causes you to have cancer in 9/10 cases or some stupid shit like that.
That's what gonna eventually happen...there are people like us here who hate this shit and then of course, there will be the fucking stupid dumbshits who will advocate it.
I don't know why everybody goes, "well, it's eventually going to happen" as if that's a logical reason to not try and prevent it. It's a pathetic cop-out. Maybe it is inevitable. I won't deny that possibility, but that doesn't mean that we should just sit by until it happens so we can say "See, I knew it would happen!" Those under 18 may not have a voice, but those of us 18 and older should be fighting for what's right instead of sitting back and letting our freedoms fade away as if they never existed.
cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 11:21 I don't know why everybody goes, "well, it's eventually going to happen" as if that's a logical reason to not try and prevent it. It's a pathetic cop-out. Maybe it is inevitable. I won't deny that possibility, but that doesn't mean that we should just sit by until it happens so we can say "See, I knew it would happen!" Those under 18 may not have a voice, but those of us 18 and older should be fighting for what's right instead of sitting back and letting our freedoms fade away as if they never existed. So you are indirectly saying that I am below 18? Maybe you should learn to not make stupid hasty assumptions. I am way older than you think me to be and I have a voice and I am a fucking arrogant SOB who thinks rationally and will kick the bullshit out of anyone who try to force their shit on me. You greatly misunderstood my statement...to equate me with the "See, I knew it would happen!" statement is an insult against my personality. Cuz you have no fucking clue as to who I am in real life. I meant that eventually the majority of the people will be sold on the idea as to make the cause of the few hopeless. This trend is quite true...when a radical concept is proposed, there is a lot of opposition initially. But as time goes on, people get used to it and adapt to the situation. Even those who vehemantly opposed it get tired and settle in. In the end, only a few will be left defending what they believe. I don't want to derail the topic but take the case for the acceptance of homosexuality. In 1999, there were more Americans who were opposed to it...now in 2007, that percentage has drastically fallen. Why? The idea became more accepted...it looked very "wrong" at first but more and more people came to realize that it was harmless after all. And this will continue. So likewise, I am sure that will be the case with this chip too...what? You think people are gonna learn how to live in the woods and not go buy groceries? Hell, people will give up too easily. Forget Bush's bill...this is gonna take a long time, maybe decades to implement (but this will come true). This is a progressive thing...like a slow (but very active) spreading cancer. The government is not going to fix a day and set up centers to inject you with this chip...they are gonna do it one area at a time. And the technology to make it all work in a massive scale is not everywhere yet and it will cost money. It's not gonna happen overnight. And this is the greatest disadvantage (to the people) because time is in the hands of the government...and the longer it takes, the more time people have to think about it and let the idea sink in. And the more people put the idea into the bottom drawer thinking it will not happen any time soon. Eventually, thanks to them putting it off, they will be forced to become accustomed to it, accept it as the reality and Mr. Government will come out on top. That's why we need to fight right now...we must fight right now and cripple the development of such privacy-invading technologies. But how many people will stand up today, right now against this? Count me in but just a few will resist...because to many people, this is a far off thing. They think it will never affect their lives but they will be surprised when it catches them...and they will lose then. But I am sure, the government will face a very difficult battle because this involves your own physical body...the last place you want the government to invade. But the populations of the future (the babies of today and their descendants) will have a different mindset...an attitude that makes it easy for the governemnt to implement such technology on a personal level. Recall how fast technology grew in the 20th century? Likewise, our descendants will grow in a technology rich environment...since they will grow up surrounded by these things, they will be more used to it and more open to technology. Look around you...do you see any senior citizens with a fucking godamned iPhone? Or a cellphone or laptop or a computer as a matter of fact? The vast majority of them do not embrace these things because it is new to them...but the generations that came after them do because they grew in a technology-rich place....and this trend is only going to accelerate even further as time goes on. I will let you decide if that is good or bad. We have people today who camp outside the Apple store to get thir hands on a iPhone like as if it's a shit they can't live without. I don't blame them...they (and us) grew in an age of technology...some embrace it and others are more conservative...but the conservatives in this matter are vastly outnumbered and eventually, unless they are all prepared to live in the desert/jungle OR rise up right now, they will have to bow down to the harsh reality.
I love my country, but they can stick that chip up their ass because I don't want it going in me.
BuzzOfTheStar wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 00:56 cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 11:21 I don't know why everybody goes, "well, it's eventually going to happen" as if that's a logical reason to not try and prevent it. It's a pathetic cop-out. Maybe it is inevitable. I won't deny that possibility, but that doesn't mean that we should just sit by until it happens so we can say "See, I knew it would happen!" Those under 18 may not have a voice, but those of us 18 and older should be fighting for what's right instead of sitting back and letting our freedoms fade away as if they never existed. So you are indirectly saying that I am below 18? Maybe you should learn to not make stupid hasty assumptions. I am way older than you think me to be and I have a voice and I am a fucking arrogant SOB who thinks rationally and will kick the bullshit out of anyone who try to force their shit on me. You greatly misunderstood my statement...to equate me with the "See, I knew it would happen!" statement is an insult against my personality. Cuz you have no fucking clue as to who I am in real life. I meant that eventually the majority of the people will be sold on the idea as to make the cause of the few hopeless. This trend is quite true...when a radical concept is proposed, there is a lot of opposition initially. But as time goes on, people get used to it and adapt to the situation. Even those who vehemantly opposed it get tired and settle in. In the end, only a few will be left defending what they believe. I don't want to derail the topic but take the case for the acceptance of homosexuality. In 1999, there were more Americans who were opposed to it...now in 2007, that percentage has drastically fallen. Why? The idea became more accepted...it looked very "wrong" at first but more and more people came to realize that it was harmless after all. And this will continue. So likewise, I am sure that will be the case with this chip too...what? You think people are gonna learn how to live in the woods and not go buy groceries? Hell, people will give up too easily. Forget Bush's bill...this is gonna take a long time, maybe decades to implement (but this will come true). This is a progressive thing...like a slow (but very active) spreading cancer. The government is not going to fix a day and set up centers to inject you with this chip...they are gonna do it one area at a time. And the technology to make it all work in a massive scale is not everywhere yet and it will cost money. It's not gonna happen overnight. And this is the greatest disadvantage (to the people) because time is in the hands of the government...and the longer it takes, the more time people have to think about it and let the idea sink in. And the more people put the idea into the bottom drawer thinking it will not happen any time soon. Eventually, thanks to them putting it off, they will be forced to become accustomed to it, accept it as the reality and Mr. Government will come out on top. That's why we need to fight right now...we must fight right now and cripple the development of such privacy-invading technologies. But how many people will stand up today, right now against this? Count me in but just a few will resist...because to many people, this is a far off thing. They think it will never affect their lives but they will be surprised when it catches them...and they will lose then. But I am sure, the government will face a very difficult battle because this involves your own physical body...the last place you want the government to invade. But the populations of the future (the babies of today and their descendants) will have a different mindset...an attitude that makes it easy for the governemnt to implement such technology on a personal level. Recall how fast technology grew in the 20th century? Likewise, our descendants will grow in a technology rich environment...since they will grow up surrounded by these things, they will be more used to it and more open to technology. Look around you...do you see any senior citizens with a fucking godamned iPhone? Or a cellphone or laptop or a computer as a matter of fact? The vast majority of them do not embrace these things because it is new to them...but the generations that came after them do because they grew in a technology-rich place....and this trend is only going to accelerate even further as time goes on. I will let you decide if that is good or bad. We have people today who camp outside the Apple store to get thir hands on a iPhone like as if it's a shit they can't live without. I don't blame them...they (and us) grew in an age of technology...some embrace it and others are more conservative...but the conservatives in this matter are vastly outnumbered and eventually, unless they are all prepared to live in the desert/jungle OR rise up right now, they will have to bow down to the harsh reality. I never implied that you are under 18. I included everybody who reads this when I said that, including you in case you're under 18. It is a cop-out to just say that it will eventually happen. At least, that's what it came across to me, and far too many people use it. While I agree with most of what you said, the difference between the iPhone and the microchip is that the iPhone is just a possession. A microchip will be much more than that. It'll be a tracking device. It'll destroy whatever privacy we thought we had. The iPhone just makes you look cool (or so one thinks).
Still better than a rectal chip. Canadacdn wrote on Mon, 09 July 2007 18:51 Silly Americans. So true.
And? Who cares if they know where you are at any given point. Unless you're suggesting you will end up being somewhere you shouldn't be?
warranto wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 09:58 And? Who cares if they know where you are at any given point. Unless you're suggesting you will end up being somewhere you shouldn't be? Do you leave the door open when you go to the bathroom? Do you like it when people are listening in to your conversations? Do you want someone to just watch you wherever you go? I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of my privacy being invaded whether or not I'm doing something illegal. Even more so than that, I hate the idea of being tracked for the simple fact that it's the principle of my freedoms being taken from me. I don't do anything wrong when I go to the bathroom. Afterall, it is natural to have to go to the bathroom, yet I still shut the door. Even if my phone conversation is innocent chit-chat, I still don't care for people to be listening over my shoulder. I may just be going from home to work and vice versa, but I still wouldn't want someone to tail me. What is it with you people and the screwed-up idea that I'm implying I want to do something illegal because I want my life to be... MY life? Also, I own the government. I should know what they're doing at all times, not the government watching me.
Tell you what, if it comes to be that government is allowing cameras to be put in homes, wiretaps put in all the phones and robots hovering over you as you walk, then I'll agree with you. Until then, who cares if the government knows you are at 105 degrees North by 55 degrees East. It doesn't tell them that you are going to the bathroom, what you are saying, or what you are doing at any given time. It simply says where you are in the world.
Unless they have a warrant, they have no right to even know where I'm at. Again, it's not that I care if people know I'm home. It's the fact that tracking me, however minor it may be, without a warrant is invading my privacy. It's having an all-too-powerful stalker watching where I am.
I find americans so amusing. On one ahnd they say: OMG NO KEEP US SAFE! and then when their goverment comes up with something that can potentially make a sever difference, they all complain that it infringes their privacy. FYI this wouldn't be all that different from a normal ID as RFID range is very very limited. And when your for example inside a car, it won't work because it acts like a cage of farraday, blocking out all radiowaves. -Ghost-
Actually, I'm not one of those Americans saying "keep me safe!" I'm an American saying, "give me liberty or give me death." I would rather die in a terrorist attack than have to lose my freedoms. As Benjamin Franklin once said, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." I still hate the idea of being tracked, even if the RFID's tracking capabilities is limited. The lack of tracking capability is irrelevant, anyways.
I'd love it. No more missing persons. Besides, that "liberty or death" is a joke. NO government would allow that to an unlimited extent, and that is taking what Ben Franklin said out of context. "Essential liberty" has no bearing on being a blip on a screen. Besides, if you are worried about chips... http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-6038770.html
Yeah, there would be pros to it, but the cons completely outweigh them. If you want to be tracked, then it should be a voluntary act to get a microchip implanted in your skin. If you want the government's protection, then you can pay for it by yourself. How are you going to say that's a joke? If I can't have the freedom to choose, what's the purpose of living? I'm not going to be the drone of a few arrogant officials. I'm not perverting what Benjamin Franklin said. My privacy is an essential freedom that would be exchanged for some temporary safety. I'm going to die, anyways, so why should I pretend that I'm invincible by having my government be my keeper? I am not my brother's keeper, and I certainly don't want big brother to be mine. The blip on a screen is my privacy being eroded by the government. I also know about that phone tracking.
Heh, sorry... lots of incomplete thoughts there. That's what you get for trying to answer questions in the middle of working. "Liberty or death" is a joke because EVERYONE gives up some liberty by choice, whether they are aware of it or not. The second the government enacts any type of law, a liberty is eroded. Be it to prevent businesses lying to their shareholders, prevent murder from occurring, or to be able to locate someone at a given point and time. The concept of it is fine, but in practice it doesn't hold up. "Privacy" being an essential freedom is correct, however you give up that freedom the moment you open a window or walk outside, or anywhere else someone can see you. That's all this does, with a lot less information than someone in visual range.
Should you not be able to choose how much of your private life is available to people at any given time? When you open a window, people will see what you let them see. When you go outside, people will see you, and how much of you, or what you're thinking, you can express by your appearance or what you say; with these things, you choose how much of your privacy is invaded. When you get a bank of credit card, you sign an agreement which states exactly what information can be collected about you. You agree to whatever privacy violations they pose to you; therefore, since you agreed to them, they aren't privacy violations at all. The data protection act is relevant here. If information is given to people that you didn't agree to, you can take the violater to court. You choose the terms by which information about you can be used. It looks to me as though this new technology will make certain things that people normally wouldn't agree to mandatory. If people don't want this stuff implemented, then it shouldn't be implemented. Why am I reminded of The Matrix when I read about this stuff? Sometimes I wish I had the money to go live in the country.
warranto wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 12:57 Heh, sorry... lots of incomplete thoughts there. That's what you get for trying to answer questions in the middle of working. "Liberty or death" is a joke because EVERYONE gives up some liberty by choice, whether they are aware of it or not. The second the government enacts any type of law, a liberty is eroded. Be it to prevent businesses lying to their shareholders, prevent murder from occurring, or to be able to locate someone at a given point and time. The concept of it is fine, but in practice it doesn't hold up. "Privacy" being an essential freedom is correct, however you give up that freedom the moment you open a window or walk outside, or anywhere else someone can see you. That's all this does, with a lot less information than someone in visual range. Well, yes, I know there is some liberty given up. I do agree with some of it, after all, I'm not an anarchist. However, those aren't necessities being given up. I give up the ability to take the law into my own hands, and I'm fine with that. Yeah, I give that up when I open a window or walk outside, but the huge GLARING difference between the two? I made the decision to open my window and walk outside. I did so under my own power. Letting the government know where I'm at without me doing so is the impeding on my privacy.
Oh, and warranto and those who agree with the "nothing to hide" argument, I request you affix your eyes to this: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565
Jake just fucking stop it, the government isn't out to get you and you need to cut it out. Ever since you changed your political affiliation you have been arguing ridiculous crap for absolutely no reason. Edit: after watching that video the computer system is highly unrealistic the caller's medical records are private and will never be publicly available. It is almost impossible for a average person to obtain their own medical records.Oh and our current state driver license for the State of Michigan meets all Real ID act requirements so piss off and stop trying to cause panic. "Common machine readable technology," NOT RF IDs The simple magnetic strip on the back of most IDs is what they are talking about. You don't like your information on it rub it on a magnet.
Why should I support the dissolving of my rights? We're inching closer and closer to a police state. It's ridiculous. You need to watch the entire movie instead of just that clip. I watched it last night, and it's scary. The fact that my government WANTS to be able to know where I'm at is scary. Why should they want to know that? Everyday Americans are not criminals, so why should we be tracked by our government? I'm not under house arrest. I haven't done anything illegal. Also, name some "ridiculous crap" that I've been arguing. I want you to mention why it's so ridiculous, too.
Isn't this just about the card and not the chip? They said they were discussing it but nothing more. As for the chip in the card I doubt it will hold that much more information than it already held about you. Also on the monitoring point they have had capabilities of monitoring what you say and do for some time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON . I guess that difference here is that with Echelon you actually had to do something for them to have the authority to listen in. I have also seen that recently quite a few things are going that way for example new passports and driving licenses seem to contain information digitally now which I guess is a similar principle. Tin foil hats at the ready!
Sorry, could help but post this link with the tin foil hat reference... http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/items/tinfoilhat.xml
warranto wrote on Wed, 11 July 2007 16:54 Sorry, could help but post this link with the tin foil hat reference... http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/items/tinfoilhat.xml Blizzard posted that before i left the WoW community. They did that as an april fool's joke, cos on the WoW forums, alot of people were conspiring about the company favouring certain classes...etc...
Oh I know. I've played the game for almost a year and a half now (maybe longer?).
Every MMO has that problem. In Guild Wars it's the same damn thing. Some people say Arenanet hates Paragons, some say they hate Warriors, Some say they hate Mesmers, or Ritualists. Just because some builds get nerfed and people are too lazy to come up with new ones.
Jecht wrote on Thu, 12 July 2007 14:49 Every MMO has that problem. In Guild Wars it's the same damn thing. Some people say Arenanet hates Paragons, some say they hate Warriors, Some say they hate Mesmers, or Ritualists. Just because some builds get nerfed and people are too lazy to come up with new ones. With WoW it seemed to rotate with every patch with the previous OP class being the now-worst
Heh, ok.. enough with the MMO stuff.. I didn't mean to get us this far off track.
anyway... Back on topic. I Peridected in the future that republics and demoracy will fall. Soon every nation, including ones in Europe, Will try to make their contry so "sucure" that the presidents/priministers and congress/parliment won't relize what they are doing. I bet in the future, Arm gaurds everywhere, No freedoms of speech for the fear of terrorists, Every assembly will result in instant exucution, you'll be lucky to have a trail. We'll have a machine in our houses that constantly checks us every time we leave the house. No cars, but goverment trains to take you to places the goverment says to go. The goverments will also sqeeze every half-penny and resources out off our hands, any thing that can harm. They will make us work in fatorys to make weapons to fight against the newly form rebellion or make us join the army or air force. And a small ration, the same size at every house will be your "pay." Then comes your chance. The voting poll. Of cource the last thirdy years no one voted for no one. And voted no against any tax or law. But this time the polls are gone. The goverment thinks that your votes are favoring the rebellion. And stop the last light of demorcacy. The countries of earth will be a imperilistic Communism uder one corrupted leader, that insipered hundrerds in of followers and murdered millions who express their oppions, and fought aggaist the goverment. Our Act of open rebellion is expect in 20 years. We must start a orgization and find a new, vauled, resource. Who's with me when this happens?
tankkiller wrote on Mon, 16 July 2007 21:12 anyway... Back on topic. I Peridected in the future that republics and demoracy will fall. Soon every nation, including ones in Europe, Will try to make their contry so "sucure" that the presidents/priministers and congress/parliment won't relize what they are doing. I bet in the future, Arm gaurds everywhere, No freedoms of speech for the fear of terrorists, Every assembly will result in instant exucution, you'll be lucky to have a trail. We'll have a machine in our houses that constantly checks us every time we leave the house. No cars, but goverment trains to take you to places the goverment says to go. The goverments will also sqeeze every half-penny and resources out off our hands, any thing that can harm. They will make us work in fatorys to make weapons to fight against the newly form rebellion or make us join the army or air force. And a small ration, the same size at every house will be your "pay." Then comes your chance. The voting poll. Of cource the last thirdy years no one voted for no one. And voted no against any tax or law. But this time the polls are gone. The goverment thinks that your votes are favoring the rebellion. And stop the last light of demorcacy. The countries of earth will be a imperilistic Communism uder one corrupted leader, that insipered hundrerds in of followers and murdered millions who express their oppions, and fought aggaist the goverment. Our Act of open rebellion is expect in 20 years. We must start a orgization and find a new, vauled, resource. Who's with me when this happens? Say anymore and im sure Geaorge Lucas will sue!
Ancient_and_forever wrote on Mon, 16 July 2007 15:28 tankkiller wrote on Mon, 16 July 2007 21:12 ....WORDS.... Say anymore and im sure Geaorge Lucas will sue! I'm also getting a hint of George Orwell in there as well. Originality for the win.
I really need to read that book. I may actually go up to the library right now.
I feel you z310, for some reason I feel like I'm missing out there since I hear it referenced so often. Can't believe my High School made me read "The Great Gadspy" instead of something I could've used.
warranto wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 08:42 Besides, if you are worried about chips... http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-6038770.html It was also recently revealed that not only can they easily track anyone with a cellphone, they also have the ability to remotely activate your cellphones microphone, so they can listen in on your location.
Unless you remove the battery from the phone (in my case, that would be nearly impossible, unless I wanted to no longer have a functioning phone).
Apparently the iphone has an NSA backdoor in it. Also, you can't remove the battery from it. The feds must love them.
The TSA will now have "Behavior Detection Officers". Why? To read the body language and facial expressions of air travelers. You know, travelers will "ill intent". There's also a science surrounding this bullshit. I swear to God, why is America being turned into a nation of paranoid fucktards? http://www.lp.org/yourturn/archives/000678.shtml
cheesesoda wrote on Fri, 17 August 2007 10:12 The TSA will now have "Behavior Detection Officers". Why? To read the body language and facial expressions of air travelers. You know, travelers will "ill intent". There's also a science surrounding this bullshit. I swear to God, why is America being turned into a nation of paranoid fucktards? http://www.lp.org/yourturn/archives/000678.shtml OMFG! This country is getting fucked up from the inside for sure. Seriously, this "Behavior Detection" is the most bullshitest thing I ever heard. And now how many innocent people will now be stopped and questioned...how embarrasing will it be? For example, I have black hair, black eyes and dark skin (I am an immigrant)...and unfortunately I don't smile a lot...OMG! Now they are definitely gonna stop me and ask my intent (yeah right, I am gonna hijack the damned plane!)...think about it. What if other paranoid fucktard air travellers complain to these "officers" (aka legalized steroetyping officers) that this one air traveller look suspicious to them? Damn this shit. It's only gonna affect immigrants/minorities but I think it won't stop the "officers" from stopping whites too just for fucks sakes. P.S. Well, I travel a lot to my native homeland...I will keep everyone here posted if some bullshit happens to me or if I see things like this happening in airports.
Behaviour Detection?! ROFLMAO. Please. Will the people detecting 'suspicious behaviour' be of the same excellent, conscientious, and intelligent pedigree as regular airport security? Because every person I have come across in airport security is a total mongoloid. What exactly IS suspicious behaviour, anyway. I'm sure terrorists are smart enough to know NOT to recite verses from the Qu'aran in the terminal. I'm going to have fun with these security measures next time I head out of the continent. I'm already starting to brush up on my "maniacally-evil laugh" , and my "fast-hands" is pretty good. I'll also start perfecting a "mustache twirl" , even though I don't have one. Of course, "shifty eyes" is always very suspicious behaviour; bonus points if you cut out a set of eye-holes in a newspaper, and do "shifty eyes" through that.
nikki6ixx wrote on Fri, 17 August 2007 11:19 What exactly IS suspicious behaviour, anyway. I'm sure terrorists are smart enough to know NOT to recite verses from the Qu'aran in the terminal. That's right, because every terrorist in the world is muslim.
Ghostshaw wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 11:01 I find americans so amusing. On one ahnd they say: OMG NO KEEP US SAFE! and then when their goverment comes up with something that can potentially make a sever difference, they all complain that it infringes their privacy. FYI this wouldn't be all that different from a normal ID as RFID range is very very limited. And when your for example inside a car, it won't work because it acts like a cage of farraday, blocking out all radiowaves. -Ghost- this post screams ignorance
Canadacdn wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 21:32 Apparently the iphone has an NSA backdoor in it. Also, you can't remove the battery from it. The feds must love them. That's why you don't get an iPhone. Plus, you save $X hundred and avoid dealing with AT&T.
looks like propoganda to me, really it dose llok like propoganda dont get your mind sucked into this yet. i dunno but shit like this really dose poison people and scares them into beleiving this stuff. Hey also in the constitution it also says if you dont like the government thats is set up you can over-throw it.
kikiller wrote on Wed, 22 August 2007 21:04 looks like propoganda to me, really it dose llok like propoganda dont get your mind sucked into this yet. i dunno but shit like this really dose poison people and scares them into beleiving this stuff. Hey also in the constitution it also says if you dont like the government thats is set up you can over-throw it. Yeah, this is hardly propaganda. The RealID Act has already been passed in Congress...