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C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
Firstly, don’t bother replying if you don’t read the entire message, otherwise you won’t have both sides of the argument. The second reply in this thread contains my release: NoFear. Okay, I know all of you here will have heard of my name (In good and bad). The good was Reserved Slots, Kill Messages, and my public expansion of my Kill Messages lower down in this thread. First of all, I wish I could turn back the clocks and fix all that has gone wrong. I think it has gone past a stage now that I can fix any trust, and I'm not looking to fix it. Image yourself (16 years of age) trying cigarettes for the first time in your life, the amount of peer pressure that has been placed upon you. This was a huge factor in this case. Now, you finally accepted the cigarette into your hand, and its light, slowly burning away. You take one small puff of the cigarette and think, "Oh, I'll be fine; the nicotine won't get to me". You hope this is correct, only to find yourself craving for more, more, more! You would do anything to get another cigarette. You have become addicted and think you can get away with it and not get caught be anyone. Now, I’m sure you would have guessed from the above that I am actually 16 years of age. Yes, this is a lot of responsibility for me, and a load more if I got finalized together in the partnership with Black-Intel/Black hand Studios. People will say that I should never be part of that, and to some degree I have to agree but I myself wanted to help, unfortunately I went the wrong way. Now, I don't smoke, but I know people who do and I wrote this little story to say how powerful it can be from what I have learnt from them. They wish they could give it up, and they have tried really hard. Now you can apply this same situation to my cheating, first time I did worry about it, but after a time, it became natural. I couldn’t help myself. I’m not looking to bore you to death; I’m giving you an insight into why I cheated. To begin it was kill the cheaters in the game; I would exclusively hunt them down and fire. RenGuard 1.03 is being bypassed and various events for the next RenGuard 1.04 have slowed down the production. Certain rumors fly past my ears that v00d00 completed RenGuard 1.04, but turned sour creating a hack that would be unstoppable (This was believed to have been made available to certain friends). Other people have certainly done this, for example Sir_Kane. I admire what he has created, although know myself that he shouldn’t have. He also knows what he has done and will suffer the consequences. I would like you to grant him a second chance, which is what he deserves. I believe in a “three strikes and your out” system. On my hand, I have done a whole lot more than what you have seen. Behind the scenes I’ve been causing a huge amount of havoc that fortunately hasn’t spread to any bad ears yet, but only time will tell what had happened (More importantly, what will happen in the future). That to me has wasted all my chances, and I don’t want anymore. I’ll leave the end there.
Next, I would like to publicly release my latest and last piece of work for the Renegade community, all of which is my own work. I will get a member of Black-Intel to read over the code and they will tell you if they think it is safe to use. This was opened to n00bstories and Black-Intel to begin with, and as I have finished the work I would like to release this to all communities. I present NoFear, a client modification for Command & Conquer Renegade as an attempt to keep this game from dying as it reaches the end in its life cycle. This modification allows the user to: - Expanded Kill Messages (Including Weapon/Vehicle and Preset) - Team Vehicle Delivered Messages - Console Commands to enable/disable Expanded Kill Messages - Customization File for above features Source code is not shipped out, because the nature of this code means that you could make a slight change and see a lot more than you should be allowed to see. The scripts.dll version is 2.9.2. I hope everyone enjoys this release as my last work on the Renegade engine as I will most likely move onto another game and start from scratch to build up a reputation for myself and my name. If you meet me in any of those games, I would like all Renegade events to be forgotten or neglected. Without further delay, you can now download my modification. This is also most likely goodbye.
Allready got it tyvm. Good job..
I will download this and try it out. I admire the fact that you got caught cheating and still have didn't go childish and say well now that you've kicked me out of this and that I wont release any fixes and whatnot. Thanks for the great things you've done to Renegade. See you around. (I hope)
first of all your body craves nicotine. i have been addictided to it (not cigorets) and found it pretty easy to get off of it. in fact all you need it willpower, find something to do that will take your mind off of nicotine. second of all, i will not fogive the fact you cheated. but i also for some reason feel some sympathy. i have considerd getting my own back on cheaters, but i just think to myself "is it worth it?". no is the answer. never the less, what you did for the community was counterd by the fact you did this. i think everyone should be allowed a second chance. imo, if you do stop cheating i think this should all be forgotten. unless ofcourse it happens again. i belive no one should have a 3rd chance. im sure i will be called a jackass for posting my opionion. but thats how it goes on this forum.
gamemodding wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 13:02 first of all your body craves nicotine. i have been addictided to it (not cigorets) and found it pretty easy to get off of it. in fact all you need it willpower, find something to do that will take your mind off of nicotine. second of all, i will not fogive the fact you cheated. but i also for some reason feel some sympathy. i have considerd getting my own back on cheaters, but i just think to myself "is it worth it?". no is the answer. never the less, what you did for the community was counterd by the fact you did this. i think everyone should be allowed a second chance. imo, if you do stop cheating i think this should all be forgotten. unless ofcourse it happens again. i belive no one should have a 3rd chance. im sure i will be called a jackass for posting my opionion. but thats how it goes on this forum. No that isn't true. You will in-fact be called a jackass because you don't know how the "Spell-check Message" button works.
Alex wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 13:44 Allready got it tyvm. Good job.. This is an updated version, So Version 2.
yes i do know how it works, but it doesn't find the right corrections. and i don't have the time to check it, it takes too long to load.
dead6re wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 14:25 Alex wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 13:44 Allready got it tyvm. Good job.. This is an updated version, So Version 2. Work's fine for me. I edited mine just a little bit.
Although I respect the work that you've done for this community, it is your fault that you cheated. Cheating is very different from smoking as its your choice whether you continue or not, and honestly, you must be hanging around some pretty sad people if they use peer pressure on you to make you cheat on a videogame to make yourself look good at it.
I recommended this for a fellow clan member and he gets this; http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3033/huhhgm7.jpg I don't know whether its a present bug or something....
Caveman wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 16:20 I recommended this for a fellow clan member and he gets this; http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3033/huhhgm7.jpg I don't know whether its a present bug or something.... I am unable to replicate this error; Can you find out more about the situation like the nicknames of the players involved?
Why should you deserve any more chances than the average joe? I mean, there's people who admitted cheating and said they're sorry and haven't been given any lenience. Admitting to cheating only after you got caught, denying it all until there's proof on the table. You should have enough balls that if someone suspects you of cheating, with or without proof, and you in fact are cheating, that you should admit it regardless, for the sake of the other person. The last thing you should do is flame the other person and lie about it making the other seem like s/he didn't know what he was talking about. I'd rather have someone who blatantly cheats more than someone who has an advantage that is hard to spot. You can re-ban the ones who blatantly do it quite easily, but the people who lie and will try and sneak through, i really can't trust them to say they won't try to sneak again. Besides. The douche had a second chance - remember Crimson admitting that she told him to stop? What did he do? Not stop. How many chances does a guy get if he does something for the community? Besides it's of my own opinion I really don't give a shit about server modded shit. O.K you can go ahead and fix bugs like falling through the map, beyond that Renegade was fine as it is. As for you, you already admitted you don't even care what people think of you after you cheated. You should care, you ruined some of their games, and every person who hasn't cheated has a right to be mad because EVERYONE makes the choice of whether or not to cheat - Just because we were mature enough to choose not to cheat hardly means you can act like you're above it all. I'd feel embarassed if I knew and talked to you and were part of anything you did. Furthermore, i don't really care how good or bad whatever you made is, the fact that you're a big bag of douchery leads me to not want to have anything to do with something so abnormally doucehbaggish. If other people like it, cool, but we sure as hell didn't need it and it's not like renegade would be dead without you. That pretty much goes for both, because there'd still be dedicated people who would much rather see other priorities come first rather than scripts where you can change your score to make yourself feel like you're anything but the shitty-ass scum player you are. That was the worst analogy EVER, by the way. You're comparing something like a game, to a certain aspect like cheating and not being able to stop? I'll bet 100$ that you didn't even TRY to stop. Just fuck off.
Quote: You will in-fact be called a jackass because you don't know how the "Spell-check Message" button works. Keep the urge to correct grammar to yourself or continue that discussion via private messages.
Sniper De and I are gonna become friends if we find a couple of other cheater-topics.
if i had known this has happend before i would of posted something much diffrent.
Dave Anderson wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 16:10 Quote: You will in-fact be called a jackass because you don't know how the "Spell-check Message" button works. Keep the urge to correct grammar to yourself or continue that discussion via private messages. I didn't mean it as a flame, I was simply saying that people will flame him not because if his opinion on the matter but his poor spelling. HL if I offended you then I'm sorry. On topic: Yeah sure I have the name of the player. Also I don't know if I was suppose to see this but when I joined my server I saw Nod Harvy delivered. Then I saw Nod APC Delivered. Meaning I saw some of the Nods information when I was on GDI. (This only happened a few times) [21:16:44] <%sccrscorer> W|NGD|NGO killed BaboonDude (GDI Minigunner/Auto Rifle vs Nod Minigunner) When I joined the server and he killed someone I kept seeing this so I'm assuming its something to do with the "|" in his name. Hope this helps.
So Sniper_De7, you think flaming other people is bad (above case of doing so is no different from any other flaming). Yet you insult people on your own. That's slightly pathetic. Also, nice FPS there, Alex.
No, I think it's bad that people that cheat and then flame the other person who has caught/accuse them cheating is bad. (Coincidentally, lying at the same time) Big difference there, chief.
In fact, for some people apparently - you should be glad they caught you cheating, because you wouldn't have your cheat addiction anymore.
SK What SK said. Thanks SK. Just after I joined the game, That first moment of fps lag. EDIT: Quote'd the wrong person. Lol
Is it normal that the Nod messages appear as gold now (on Alex' screenshot)? Or am I missing something?
Caveman wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 15:25 Dave Anderson wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 16:10 Quote: You will in-fact be called a jackass because you don't know how the "Spell-check Message" button works. Keep the urge to correct grammar to yourself or continue that discussion via private messages. I didn't mean it as a flame, I was simply saying that people will flame him not because if his opinion on the matter but his poor spelling. HL if I offended you then I'm sorry. On topic: Yeah sure I have the name of the player. Also I don't know if I was suppose to see this but when I joined my server I saw Nod Harvy delivered. Then I saw Nod APC Delivered. Meaning I saw some of the Nods information when I was on GDI. (This only happened a few times) [21:16:44] <%sccrscorer> W|NGD|NGO killed BaboonDude (GDI Minigunner/Auto Rifle vs Nod Minigunner) When I joined the server and he killed someone I kept seeing this so I'm assuming its something to do with the "|" in his name. Hope this helps. It isn't that you offended me, because you didn't. The mods, however, posted new rules for a reason.
Goztow wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 17:16 Is it normal that the Nod messages appear as gold now (on Alex' screenshot)? Or am I missing something? I think you read it wrong, The n00bjetter (Havoc) killed a Noddy.
Goztow wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 23:16 Is it normal that the Nod messages appear as gold now (on Alex' screenshot)? Or am I missing something? They're based on the team of <killer> as the primary color. Just like normal, you kill someone and the message "<nick1> killed <nick2>" is in the color of your team. In other words, two GDI guys killed two Nod guys when he took that screen shot.
Dave Anderson wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 15:22 It isn't that you offended me, because you didn't. The mods, however, posted new rules for a reason. Yes. Please abide by them.
icedog90 wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 21:07 Dave Anderson wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 15:22 It isn't that you offended me, because you didn't. The mods, however, posted new rules for a reason. Yes. Please abide by them. As I previously stated. I didn't intend to flame or insult anyone. I was just simply trying to say that he would get flamed because of his spelling. I apologize if I came across rude. As to WhiteDragon; Would you care to go into a little more detail?
in real life different people have different amounts of chances, so in ren we might as well take this into account as well as the fact that our community is small. communism is when people are even, and this is a site created by a democratic country, not saying we vote on everything here.
gamemodding wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 20:02 first of all your body craves nicotine. i have been addictided to it (not cigorets) and found it pretty easy to get off of it. in fact all you need it willpower, find something to do that will take your mind off of nicotine. second of all, i will not fogive the fact you cheated. but i also for some reason feel some sympathy. i have considerd getting my own back on cheaters, but i just think to myself "is it worth it?". no is the answer. never the less, what you did for the community was counterd by the fact you did this. i think everyone should be allowed a second chance. imo, if you do stop cheating i think this should all be forgotten. unless ofcourse it happens again. i belive no one should have a 3rd chance. im sure i will be called a jackass for posting my opionion. but thats how it goes on this forum. Lets just say that he went wrong about 3 times (I think). first time pretty badly...
OK, that was me being stupid, about the message color . The fact if this would be cheating or not has been discussed before: http://www.black-intel.net/forum/index.php/topic,320.0.html and my statement was that I see it as a possible unfair advantage. I think that's what Whitedragon means.
Caveman wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 17:25 On topic: Yeah sure I have the name of the player. Also I don't know if I was suppose to see this but when I joined my server I saw Nod Harvy delivered. Then I saw Nod APC Delivered. Meaning I saw some of the Nods information when I was on GDI. (This only happened a few times) [21:16:44] <%sccrscorer> W|NGD|NGO killed BaboonDude (GDI Minigunner/Auto Rifle vs Nod Minigunner) When I joined the server and he killed someone I kept seeing this so I'm assuming its something to do with the "|" in his name. Hope this helps. The "|" will be causing the problem in the messages. Seeing the NOD APC/HARVY Messages should not appear unless the game is not recieving all the information. It would be interesting if this happens within the first minute of the game and wether or not it keeps doing that. This cannot be reguarded as a cheat, the information that you can recieve can be communicated to you in other ways, this just makes it a lot more easier. At Sniper_De7, Crimson never told me to stop because she didn't know. You are getting the story confused with Sir_Kane who did get told to stop.
well the position of nod soldiers and vehicles can be communicated too, so I guess radar hack isnt a cheat either ? Oh and since you can communicate about destroying the enemy, you can also use fr as the outcome is the same ... And ofcourse stealth reveal is allowed, I mean you can easily communicate that.. I think your point isnt really vailid...
why don't you and Kane just fuck off tbh. This looks like some piece of shit that should be a server side modification if anything, just another thing to unbalance the game for people who choose to take any advantage they can get their hands on.
dead6re wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 04:35 At Sniper_De7, Crimson never told me to stop because she didn't know. You are getting the story confused with Sir_Kane who did get told to stop. Quote: I would like you to grant him a second chance, which is what he deserves I was talking about him, which is indeed why I said that. But as for you, I don't think you deserve one either. The fact that you lied about cheating(yours and his) and you even knew that he cheated just makes it all the more sadder. What am I talking about? Quote: Silent_Kane has managed to perform various little tricks server side in the dll he is currently coding. These are found and removed by Crimsons request. This incident more to do with "fluke" then hacking. -you Not only did you lie about cheating, but you *did* get a second chance. Every single time you entered a game with or without cheats, you made a choice wether or not to stop cheating, as i'd be 100% sure that you didn't even try to do. So even after every time someone suspected you of cheating, and you were, they just didn't have proof, you still made the decision to cheat. Take that to people who, because they are new - join a game with some obvious cheat and don't know any better, obviously they'll get caught and banned and shown no mercy, when theyd on't even know how to go about attempting at making it less obvious they cheated in the first place. Every single time i want to join a game I make the decision of not cheating as does anyone else who knows how easily it is to get. You're not above everyone else, you don't deserve any second chances, even if you already have, so quit acting like you do.
dead6re wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 04:35 Caveman wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 17:25 On topic: Yeah sure I have the name of the player. Also I don't know if I was suppose to see this but when I joined my server I saw Nod Harvy delivered. Then I saw Nod APC Delivered. Meaning I saw some of the Nods information when I was on GDI. (This only happened a few times) [21:16:44] <%sccrscorer> W|NGD|NGO killed BaboonDude (GDI Minigunner/Auto Rifle vs Nod Minigunner) When I joined the server and he killed someone I kept seeing this so I'm assuming its something to do with the "|" in his name. Hope this helps. The "|" will be causing the problem in the messages. Seeing the NOD APC/HARVY Messages should not appear unless the game is not recieving all the information. It would be interesting if this happens within the first minute of the game and wether or not it keeps doing that. This cannot be reguarded as a cheat, the information that you can recieve can be communicated to you in other ways, this just makes it a lot more easier. At Sniper_De7, Crimson never told me to stop because she didn't know. You are getting the story confused with Sir_Kane who did get told to stop. Its within the very first moment of the game. After that I stop seeing the harvy messages and other team messages and just see kills and our vehicle purchases.
I see this NoFear thing as a HUGE cheat. Why would you have made/use this, let alone release it? It sure doesnt help your story. ALthought, i do really see you go, ALOT will get done slower (including rg1.04). But its funny, most of the people who keep complainging they want rg 1.04 to be released sooner, want you out. This is going against their own logic, and anyway even if you did cheat, i think you saw the error of your ways, and I'd rather have you cheat (but still working on rg 1.04) than have ALOT more cheaters because of the slow down of rg 1.04.... BUT I also think more info should be released about the supposide SK and v00d00 thing
Cheat?? I look it at as a great way to catch cheaters. Instead of having to scroll up on irc hoping to catch it its right there.
Wall hack is also a great anti cheat! You can see everyone that could do suspect damage! Do you use it though? I hope not.
Sccrscorer wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 08:23 Cheat?? I look it at as a great way to catch cheaters. Instead of having to scroll up on irc hoping to catch it its right there. Little problem, though. What if you see someone kill someone else with a Repair Gun(Weak)? OMG FINAL REN!!1!1 -- NO, they probably just ran into a proxy c4, but there is no way (and should be no way) to check that ingame. That's what moderators in IRC are for (and where this script should actually go).
i done something like that once... "roshambo(GDI minigunner) destroyed someone's Nod Light Tank"
havoc9826 wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 11:45 Sccrscorer wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 08:23 Cheat?? I look it at as a great way to catch cheaters. Instead of having to scroll up on irc hoping to catch it its right there. Little problem, though. What if you see someone kill someone else with a Repair Gun(Weak)? OMG FINAL REN!!1!1 -- NO, they probably just ran into a proxy c4, but there is no way (and should be no way) to check that ingame. That's what moderators in IRC are for (and where this script should actually go). Yes we know that. It says that on IRC. But if you see 3 apcs just blew up by pistol from an SBH you don't have to alt tab out because its there in your face. Its just like having two monitors. One ingame and on on IRC so you can see the kill messages. How do you work out that this is a cheat. Extended kill messages. Its what you see on IRC. You can't see the other teams chat. So its not a cheat. Its just a easier way to catch cheaters. Thats how I see it. If I had any doubt that this was a cheat do you really think I would openly test it out in public, come to the Renegade forums and say well this part doesn't work. No. I would keep it to myself and abuse it. So to the people who think its a cheat. Could you explain to me in some detail what exactly makes it a cheat.
obviously if i see a repair gun "kill" a tank im not gonna !Kb em im gonna look out and if it happens way too much i will test.. just like if im in irc i would look for that and let a mod ingame know
Caveman wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 09:07 Yes we know that. It says that on IRC. But if you see 3 apcs just blew up by pistol from an SBH you don't have to alt tab out because its there in your face. I've seen a Nuclear Strike do that. If you get some clueless mod or someone who can be trusted with !poll kicking on the other side of the map who has no idea who planted the nuke or that one was even planted, you get problems.
solution: dont make clueless people mods? durrr
Thats the same thing if someone was in IRC. If they saw that. Are you now saying that having IRC is a cheat?
Most servers disallow people to be in IRC and the game at the same time. I wouldn't personally view this as a cheat, and I really don't think he made this to give himself an advantage overothers either. However I can see how this would upset some people since it could provide an advantage. Even if you did know what character/weapon someone had, there's no way to know exactly where that person is at the same time unless you can already see them on your screen.
I want to add: I can understand serevr owners / admins using this. It's their serevr and if it can help them catch cheatres, then I don't see a problem with it. It's their serevr and they do with it how they like anyway.
Also, I see lots of modern games with this already built into the game. Its your loss if you don't use it and you know about it. I'm just bringing modifications that I feel are needed (And ones that were requested). Look at CS:S!
Other modern games might have more powerful weapons, therefore it is not a problem to make your weapons do more damage. For players not using final renegade or whatever, it's their loss if they do not know about it or use it. It's publically availible anyway... Right? Personally I do not think this will really give you an advantage though. I have had some test builds from Dead6re and have seen little to no use for it really. The only thing that it did for me was make the message window spammed and less readable, which actually is a bad effect as you will more easily miss (team) messages. It might be handy for moderators/server owners to check what exactly happened more easily than having to alt tab to irc and make renegade crash when going back (with a certain version of scripts.dll ), however I have not used that information a lot in finding and stopping cheaters.
StealthEye wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 18:02 ...than having to alt tab to irc and make renegade crash when going back ... Many people nowadays (especially popular server owners) will have a dual monitor configuration. So that'll save time and crash at 'alt-tab'bing out.
trooprm02 wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 09:17 BUT I also think more info should be released about the supposide SK and v00d00 thing Wtf did I miss?
trooprm02 wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 11:17 I see this NoFear thing as a HUGE cheat. Why would you have made/use this, let alone release it? It sure doesnt help your story. ALthought, i do really see you go, ALOT will get done slower (including rg1.04). But its funny, most of the people who keep complainging they want rg 1.04 to be released sooner, want you out. This is going against their own logic, and anyway even if you did cheat, i think you saw the error of your ways, and I'd rather have you cheat (but still working on rg 1.04) than have ALOT more cheaters because of the slow down of rg 1.04.... BUT I also think more info should be released about the supposide SK and v00d00 thing 1) Dead6re has absolutely nothing to do with BHS or RenGuard 2) What on earth is this "v00d00 thing?" Last time I checked, v00d00 has just come back after months of inactivity to work on something that allows you to reconstruct buildings server-side. Is that a cheat now too? Everything else seems to be these days.
1. Why do you think the NoFear dll is a cheat? From what I have seen (havn't actually tried it), it provides enhanced kill messages, and team vehicle information...I don't see how any of that is a cheat?? 2. v00d00 never left BHS, like the rest of us, he has a life and responsibilities that take up his time. It's true that he was absent for awhile, but it's because he was extremely busy, not because he "left" or "quit". 3. v00d00 has done some work on a mod that would enable server owners to have an option for re-purchasing a building. The idea being that for example, if the entire team donated all of their money, a building could be "turned back on". This would be a server-side mode and certainly not a cheat.
Blazer wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 19:37 1. Why do you think the NoFear dll is a cheat? From what I have seen (havn't actually tried it), it provides enhanced kill messages, and team vehicle information...I don't see how any of that is a cheat??. Thats what i've been trying to say.
It gives information that other players don't have.
Does the information benefit the player that has it to a point that gives them an easier time playing the game?
It would be there own fault they don't check these forums or n00bstories forums. Because thats were the release of this nifty tool was announced.
warranto wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 21:05 Does the information benefit the player that has it to a point that gives them an easier time playing the game? I do believe that it can, just like advantage skins/sounds, clearscope and radar hack can. You can benefit from all information you get more as long as you use it correctly.
Goztow wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 15:25 warranto wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 21:05 Does the information benefit the player that has it to a point that gives them an easier time playing the game? I do believe that it can, just like advantage skins/sounds, clearscope and radar hack can. You can benefit from all information you get more as long as you use it correctly. The information provided by this dll gives the user no advantage over anyone else, atleast from what I can see. Its really not that different from looking in irc, even a "public" channel. I see no way that this could be used to give a regular user advantage over anyone else.
Goztow wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 16:25 warranto wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 21:05 Does the information benefit the player that has it to a point that gives them an easier time playing the game? I do believe that it can, just like advantage skins/sounds, clearscope and radar hack can. You can benefit from all information you get more as long as you use it correctly. That doesn't mean information is a cheat... I have my Renegade running full detail, that mean I can see SBH flicker when they jump and I can see them kick up dirt when they run. Someone with low detail cannot see this, and therefore I have an advantage over them. Am I cheating?
Goztow wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 15:25 warranto wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 21:05 Does the information benefit the player that has it to a point that gives them an easier time playing the game? I do believe that it can, just like advantage skins/sounds, clearscope and radar hack can. You can benefit from all information you get more as long as you use it correctly. Renx wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 12:47 That doesn't mean information is a cheat... I have my Renegade running full detail, that mean I can see SBH flicker when they jump and I can see them kick up dirt when they run. Someone with low detail cannot see this, and therefore I have an advantage over them. Am I cheating? Those people may be unfortunate, but your advantage came shipped with the game straight from EA. You may have a financial and technological advantage, but that doesn't make it your fault that you have a better machine than they do, so you shouldn't be punished for it. AmunRa wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 12:31 The information provided by this dll gives the user no advantage over anyone else, atleast from what I can see. Its really not that different from looking in irc, even a "public" channel. I see no way that this could be used to give a regular user advantage over anyone else. Let me present an example scenario: I doubt regular users (if allowed to do so) will be constantly alt-tabbing between IRC and Renegade (note that Windowed mode only allows someone to see the last few lines of IRC output unless they move the window, which is analogous to alt-tabbing) to see if there are any SBH units left after GDI destroys the HON. Seeing a SBH unit make a kill after the HON is destroyed will allow GDI to know that there still is/are a/some stealth unit(s), whereas they may not have had such knowledge otherwise (e.g. if a Nod player had just purchased the SBH in the Power Plant when the HON died). Now, with this knowledge, GDI will actively try to prevent this/these unit(s) from entering their base, and will be more conservative about base defense than they would have if they had assumed there were probably no remaining SBH units. I'm sure many other scenarios exist in which there could be an unfair advantage gained from this. However, as I stated before, my greatest concern is the constant accusations that we'll get from ignorant players who 1. don't understand that the weapons in the kill messages refer to those the person is currently holding, rather than what they were killed with, and 2. have the naïveté to believe that anyone who killed them and is not using RenGuard must be cheating, and/or that noone who uses RenGuard could possibly be cheating (which is already an issue, but combine this with #1 and it gets even worse). Unless you plan to have all C4 and beacon detonations (with their corresponding owners) displayed ingame, I predict that if people who are too dumb to understand what this is get their hands on it (through direct download or a future scripts.dll/core patch release), the problems this may create would outweigh the benefits (at least until someone invents an ingame !shun command).
I can see where you're going with this but then again why would a average joe have this? If someone wants to download this then they must have SOME knowledge of the weapon presents and whatnot. As for the !shun command. That already exists.
Caveman wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 13:11 I can see where you're going with this but then again why would a average joe have this? If someone wants to download this then they must have SOME knowledge of the weapon presents and whatnot. As for the !shun command. That already exists. Unless it comes with a future core patch, in which case a great many players will have it, regardless of whether or not they're smart enough to understand it. Also, who has a !shun command that works for ingame players and not just people in IRC?
havoc9826 wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 13:58 Those people may be unfortunate, but your advantage came shipped with the game straight from EA. You may have a financial and technological advantage, but that doesn't make it your fault that you have a better machine than they do, so you shouldn't be punished for it. LOL I was involved in a HUGE e-argument about 4 years ago on this subject. My side was condemned and our win was decided as unfair because we loaded the map faster.
The new brenbot has a !shun command that works in-game
If you want an exemple: the mere fac u know an engee killed your teammate which was in the base and not a hotwire is enough to decide not to go after it. My problem is not that people know this info, the problem is some know it and some don't, making it an unfair advantage.
havoc9826 wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 14:58 Goztow wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 15:25 warranto wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 21:05 Does the information benefit the player that has it to a point that gives them an easier time playing the game? I do believe that it can, just like advantage skins/sounds, clearscope and radar hack can. You can benefit from all information you get more as long as you use it correctly. Renx wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 12:47 That doesn't mean information is a cheat... I have my Renegade running full detail, that mean I can see SBH flicker when they jump and I can see them kick up dirt when they run. Someone with low detail cannot see this, and therefore I have an advantage over them. Am I cheating? Those people may be unfortunate, but your advantage came shipped with the game straight from EA. You may have a financial and technological advantage, but that doesn't make it your fault that you have a better machine than they do, so you shouldn't be punished for it. AmunRa wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 12:31 The information provided by this dll gives the user no advantage over anyone else, atleast from what I can see. Its really not that different from looking in irc, even a "public" channel. I see no way that this could be used to give a regular user advantage over anyone else. Let me present an example scenario: I doubt regular users (if allowed to do so) will be constantly alt-tabbing between IRC and Renegade (note that Windowed mode only allows someone to see the last few lines of IRC output unless they move the window, which is analogous to alt-tabbing) to see if there are any SBH units left after GDI destroys the HON. Seeing a SBH unit make a kill after the HON is destroyed will allow GDI to know that there still is/are a/some stealth unit(s), whereas they may not have had such knowledge otherwise (e.g. if a Nod player had just purchased the SBH in the Power Plant when the HON died). Now, with this knowledge, GDI will actively try to prevent this/these unit(s) from entering their base, and will be more conservative about base defense than they would have if they had assumed there were probably no remaining SBH units. I'm sure many other scenarios exist in which there could be an unfair advantage gained from this. However, as I stated before, my greatest concern is the constant accusations that we'll get from ignorant players who 1. don't understand that the weapons in the kill messages refer to those the person is currently holding, rather than what they were killed with, and 2. have the naïveté to believe that anyone who killed them and is not using RenGuard must be cheating, and/or that noone who uses RenGuard could possibly be cheating (which is already an issue, but combine this with #1 and it gets even worse). Unless you plan to have all C4 and beacon detonations (with their corresponding owners) displayed ingame, I predict that if people who are too dumb to understand what this is get their hands on it (through direct download or a future scripts.dll/core patch release), the problems this may create would outweigh the benefits (at least until someone invents an ingame !shun command). Tack on the fact that if you knew there were no sbhs or not that you could also safely repair in the field or not, whereas the average person doesn't know this.
The average person should be able to figure that out without any assistance. Basic rule: If they can still use the Hand, SBH roam the land. Other than that its a quick thing to see an approximate as to who is out there in active combat, how many players there are on the team, and who you have not heard from in a while, be it that they are afk, guarding the base, or waiting for the right time to strike.
Why should they be able to figure that out? Just because someone hasn't died or killed in a while doesn't mean they're sbhs. My point is that if it were me, and i actually wanted to download this, i would use this as obvious assurance if there is an sbh or not. You can guess all you like and you may be right in "assuming" but if you see sbh kills whatever, then you KNOW there is an sbh. Quite different to just assuming there might be. Anyways, like I said, I would use it to my advantage that way, and that's what could make it unfair. Tantamount to cheating, I don't really know - I guess it depends on what you would count as cheating. edit: oh and just a question, is the ta-Kane or however it's capitalized the same guy as who was in [NE]?
Assurance only as long as he actually kills someone. In which case, the smart person will mention to watch out for the SBH in the field.
and with this you won't need that supposed smart person. Besides, I don't remember a single time where the HON was down and someone said that there was an sbh when there was one. Like I said, with this you don't *need* to have someone say there was an sbh that whoever got killed by him. That is an advantage, you can't discount that it is. Now the question is that if it's an advantage does that mean that only everybody should get it or no one, and that's not a question I can certainly answer. To be fair, it would be either no one or everyone, and since not everyone can... that would imply that it can only be fair if no one did.
So you guys are saying that knowing what someones current character is, and what weapon they killed you with, is a cheat? As if 99% of the time you don't outright see them kill you. * In many servers, the enhanced kill messages not only show in IRC, but are broadcast via host messages...I guess they are forcing "cheats" onto their players? * I play with dual monitors, and can see IRC while I play...I guess I'm using the dual monitor cheat, since I can see the kill messages? And no, I don't spy on team chat, which is displayed in a seperate admin-only channel. * I often check the IRC kill messages to make sure someone else is not cheating. Like I'm driving my stank and suddenly it pops although nobody is around, I'm like WTF OMG HAX...then I check IRC and see that it was timed c4 that I obviously didn't see get tossed on me * As mentioned, ALWAYS assume that SBH are about, even if the hand is destroyed, as that is the best time for SBH to be sneaky and own careless players. Seeing that an SBH killed you in a kill message shouldn't be considered a cheat, as you should always assume they are about. * I've often been sniped out of the blue and the killer will say in F2 chat "lol sbh sniper ownz u"...I guess he forced me to use the "know what killed you cheat"? Seriously...you guys need to relax, lol.
I said it was an advantage, not a cheat. Some people disallow clear scope from their servers, for the reason that it gives people an advantage (if they can't notice people as easily). some people may determine it cheating based on their own definition of cheating. Whether or not mild or not mild, it is an advantage. For example, some people might consider bright skins "cheating" because you can identify people a lot easier than a random person would who doesn't know how to download them if s/he wants to. I think there was only one person who said it was cheating though. I would think it's up to the server admin to allow or disallow. It's a little unfair for the guy with the lone sbh to kill a guy if the other team has this. Of course, the person who got killed *might* tell the team anyways, with or without, but now the person with the sbh doesn't have a choice.
Personally I consider bright C4 much more of a cheat than knowing if someone sniped me with a havoc or a deadeye (as if I couldnt tell).
I would agree there, but knowing if a team has NO sbhs is an advantage that I would put to use. Instead of repairing in the tiberium where I would normally repair if i really needed to, I could instead repair under cover, or just out in the open. The same could be said about knowing if there are any techs left.
Ok let me make my point. Hand gets destoryed. With this .dll you'll know if a SBH has died recently. Whos to say whether there isn't another 10 sbhs laying around? Thats just like saying to your team. I just saw an SBH die, its ok to get out of your tanks now. This program doesn't tell you whether theres any left. It just simply says who was killed with what. What is the damn problem.
My point was an sbh *killing* someone else, thus the sbh lives. And the only person who knows this is the person who he killed (which is probably someone who isn't smart enough to tell the team, or doesn't care enough) and any person who uses this script or whatever you want to call it. I did not say that if one sbh dies that means all of them are dead.
Sniper_De7 wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 19:53 I would agree there, but knowing if a team has NO sbhs is an advantage that I would put to use. Instead of repairing in the tiberium where I would normally repair if i really needed to, I could instead repair under cover, or just out in the open. The same could be said about knowing if there are any techs left. Theres no way to tell that there are no SBH's...even if the hand has been gone for 15 mins, there is probably still a few lurking around. I know I love keeping my sbh alive as long as possible when the hand is lost
When this was in development i strongly suggested dead6re to also make a server side dll which would toggle this thing on or off. Meaning the client dll checks with the serevr dll if you can use it on this server or not. He choose to ignore this or simply didn't know how to do it, so be it. ----------------------------------------------------------- So you guys are saying that knowing what someones current character is, and what weapon they killed you with, is a cheat? As if 99% of the time you don't outright see them kill you. This isn't the point! You choose to ignore the whole question. It's the fact you now also have all info on who was killed by whom for the complete game and not only for yourself. Big difference. * In many servers, the enhanced kill messages not only show in IRC, but are broadcast via host messages...I guess they are forcing "cheats" onto their players? What's so hard to understand in the explanation of sniper de7. Boradcast message = server side = all know it = all have the same info = no advantage for one compared to another. * I play with dual monitors, and can see IRC while I play...I guess I'm using the dual monitor cheat, since I can see the kill messages? And no, I don't spy on team chat, which is displayed in a seperate admin-only channel. Yes, you have an unfair advantage towards others. But as you are a serevr owner/admin, you can do whatever you want anyway, as stated before. TK2 has a passworded IRC and has strict, though hard to control, guidelines not to look in irc while playing for this reason. * I often check the IRC kill messages to make sure someone else is not cheating. Like I'm driving my stank and suddenly it pops although nobody is around, I'm like WTF OMG HAX...then I check IRC and see that it was timed c4 that I obviously didn't see get tossed on me Most of the time it won't even show up as timed c4 as ssaow cannot actually guess that it was timed if the player has changed weapons since. As I said, I guess this is your privilege as server owner/administrator. * As mentioned, ALWAYS assume that SBH are about, even if the hand is destroyed, as that is the best time for SBH to be sneaky and own careless players. Seeing that an SBH killed you in a kill message shouldn't be considered a cheat, as you should always assume they are about. Maybe in a 20v20 game but not in a 5v5 game. Anbd there's a difference between assuming and knowing which will influence your gameplay. If you assume the cops could be around teh corner then you mlight still drink a couple of glasses whereas if you know it, you will not drink any at all. * I've often been sniped out of the blue and the killer will say in F2 chat "lol sbh sniper ownz u"...I guess he forced me to use the "know what killed you cheat"? All have the same info, you don't have an advantage. Seriously...you guys need to relax, lol.
An attentive player on GDI would mentally keep track of who they've seen/killed and whether they have an advanced unit (and therefore which one) or a free unit. If they don't see a certain player, or a lack of change in that player's score for an extended amount of time, they can assume that the person is either AFK or deliberately staying out of contact with everyone because they definitely have an advanced unit. Until everyone who was in the server before the HON died is accounted for, that attentive GDI player would stay alert for advanced units, especially SBH, and if he/she is concerned enough, he/she will inform the team accordingly when relevant and/or asked for.
I decided not to implement a server side option because anything this DLL provides as information can be provided by any player. If someone is killed by an SBH when the HON is dead, they can tell you there is an SBH alive. It provides an advantage, I agree, but this advantage can be gained in other ways if you have a good team to work with.
Goztow wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 23:30 * I often check the IRC kill messages to make sure someone else is not cheating. Like I'm driving my stank and suddenly it pops although nobody is around, I'm like WTF OMG HAX...then I check IRC and see that it was timed c4 that I obviously didn't see get tossed on me Most of the time it won't even show up as timed c4 as ssaow cannot actually guess that it was timed if the player has changed weapons since. As I said, I guess this is your privilege as server owner/administrator. SSAOW might not show that yet, but DragonServ currently does show the owners of Timed/Remote C4 (in the moderator channels), what type exploded or was disarmed (and if the latter, by whom), and whether it was attached to anything. It's certainly possible, and not unrealistic to think Whitedragon may include this feature in the next SSAOW release.
Goztow wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 13:41 It gives information that other players don't have. Exactly. Not only this but something like this i think would kill the game somemore. Its good to see ren still kicking, but heavy modding like this, (i think) is way too much. If i kill someone, its tells everyone else exactly what vechile im in, what char etc. Same thing as wall hack? I think so.
And now you idiots are going to tell me that user created reticles and Windows Magnifying glass are advantages in the game. I see nothing wrong with NoFear, and if it was considered a cheat, I'm sure this discussion would have been locked and moved by the moderation.
Thats exactly why you ARE NOT, a mod. And I see why you don't even play ren anymore, because you obviously have no clue about gameplay
trooprm02 wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 10:18 Thats exactly why you ARE NOT, a mod. And I see why you don't even play ren anymore, because you obviously have no glue about gameplay You're right, I don't have any glue about gameplay. Then again, I don't think anybody does. I know damn well what gives people advantages, and if yellow SpongeBob C4 skins are not considered cheating, NoFear certainly is not cheating. Also, just because I've stopped playing the game doesn't mean I stopped due to my lack of understanding of the game. It doesn't take a genius to figure these things out. It just takes simple logic and reasoning, but you would know nothing about them, apparently.
ruelz Spelling/Grammar: This is a gaming forum, not literature. Keep the urge to correct to yourself. If it pains you so much to see someone misspell a word, miss a comma, etc., give them lessons in private because we don't want to see it on the forums. However, we would appreciate it if everyone's post was at least legible.
gamemodding wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 10:32 ruelz Spelling/Grammar: This is a gaming forum, not literature. Keep the urge to correct to yourself. If it pains you so much to see someone misspell a word, miss a comma, etc., give them lessons in private because we don't want to see it on the forums. However, we would appreciate it if everyone's post was at least legible. If he can't fucking hit the 'c' key instead of the 'g' key, I can't be expected to hold to that rule.
j_ball430 wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 09:34 gamemodding wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 10:32 ruelz Spelling/Grammar: This is a gaming forum, not literature. Keep the urge to correct to yourself. If it pains you so much to see someone misspell a word, miss a comma, etc., give them lessons in private because we don't want to see it on the forums. However, we would appreciate it if everyone's post was at least legible. If he can't fucking hit the 'c' key instead of the 'g' key, I can't be expected to hold to that rule. Ok, I see you left ren cuz u sucked so much (u have admitted this), why stay on these forums to correct spelling? But I do agree with u that u do need help.
trooprm02 wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 10:37 j_ball430 wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 09:34 gamemodding wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 10:32 ruelz Spelling/Grammar: This is a gaming forum, not literature. Keep the urge to correct to yourself. If it pains you so much to see someone misspell a word, miss a comma, etc., give them lessons in private because we don't want to see it on the forums. However, we would appreciate it if everyone's post was at least legible. If he can't fucking hit the 'c' key instead of the 'g' key, I can't be expected to hold to that rule. Ok, I see you left ren cuz u sucked so much (u have admitted this), why stay on these forums to correct spelling? But I do agree with u that u do need help. It's funny how you can only resort to ad hominem. LET'S NOT ATTACK THE ISSUE. LET'S ATTACK THE PERSON, INSTEAD. You've yet to prove me wrong on ANYTHING. Until then, you don't reserve the right to insult my character.
TOo late, already reserved Btw, keep dodging the fact you have NO opionion on anything ren related for 2 reason: 1)you sucks balls at it 2)you dont even play Glad to see you agree
trooprm02 wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 15:58 1)you sucks balls at it why flame someone if they are bad on renegade? i have already admited i am a n00b but i play for fun. most of the time in ROFL at myself running circles shooting in the air. don't sink further down than you already have.
trooprm02 wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 10:58 TOo late, already reserved Btw, keep dodging the fact you have NO opionion on anything ren related for 2 reason: 1)you sucks balls at it 2)you dont even play Glad to see you agree Wait wait wait... So you're saying that because I may not be skilled in the game that I have no fundamental understanding of the game? Okay, so by that logic most sports columnists have NO fundamental understanding of the sport they're covering? What about coaches that have never actually played the sport they're coaching? You know what they say, "those who cannot do, teach." You don't have to play or be talented to understand concepts of a sport or a game. I obviously exceed your understanding of the game, and you're still playing!
j_ball430 wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 16:06 trooprm02 wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 10:58 TOo late, already reserved Btw, keep dodging the fact you have NO opionion on anything ren related for 2 reason: 1)you sucks balls at it 2)you dont even play Glad to see you agree Wait wait wait... So you're saying that because I may not be skilled in the game that I have no fundamental understanding of the game? Even i do, im just not that good tprm02, you are sinking lower with each post.
trooprm02 is the official retard of the week.
Silent Kane wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 11:47 trooprm02 is the official retard of the week. week? he is the biggest retard. This isn't a cheat, but it gives players an advantage over people without it. That is the reason I think it should be a server side modification, sure it doesn't make a huge difference but if I choose to load up bright sniper skins, c4, colourful stealth, clear scope this and any other non-cheat then the advantage starts to stack up. It's all irrelevant as the cat is out of the bag and it isn't going back in - perhaps something like this should be included in RG 1.04 to help level the playing field (especially as it can be turned off if desired)
trooprm02 wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 10:58 TOo late, already reserved Btw, keep dodging the fact you have NO opionion on anything ren related for 2 reason: 1)you sucks balls at it 2)you dont even play Glad to see you agree You're pretty horrible at Renegade yourself. Please stfu, because how good someone is at Renegade has nothing to do with how smart or how logical you are, or even your personality.