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C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
I know that this has been brought up countless times, but I can't seem to find any good Renegade 2 screenshots anywhere, even by searching these forums. I'm looking for the screenshots of the woods (that had the Renegade 2 trees) and the Allied/Soviet bases. I've seen them before. I want them for reference purposes. Thanks.
Go to CnC-Source, you can find them there.
Yeah, I tried there, but all of the image files are broken for whatever reason. They have exactly what I want though.
How about these ones?
and these too
What's with the sickle and hammer? Gay...
icedog90 wrote on Tue, 02 January 2007 21:37 and the Allied/Soviet bases I think that might have something to do with it...
Thanks everyone, that's really helpful. If any of you have any more of the ones in the woods, that would be great.
There used to be some w3d assets as well, they included that soviet bunker in the bottom picture of the first post of pictures as well as some destructible walls ect. I used to have it but deleted them >.< Anyone know where it they can be found?
Yeah, here: http://www.cnc-source.com/files/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=267
http://www.cnc-source.com/forums/index.php?automodule=gallery&req=sc&cat =69 Set it to show all posts from the beginning or else you won't see anything. Same for these: http://www.cnc-source.com/forums/index.php?automodule=gallery&req=sc&cat =90
Allied and Soviet bases in Ren2? That'd just be gay. It's bad enough that they're mixing Hell March w/ C&C3 ... and they also mixed RA with Ren2? Wtf is EA thinking?
I hope you know that Renegade 2 was SUPPOSED to be based on Red Alert 2. I don't know what you're pointing out here.
Personally I don't think those even look that good compared to what is possible in Renegade today. Just play C&C_The_Woods_Today with full AA/AF and postprocess shaders enabled. Even APB looks better than that. I'm sure they would have optimized it a bit more though, considering Renegade is hog for what you get.
icedog90 wrote on Wed, 03 January 2007 00:50 I hope you know that Renegade 2 was SUPPOSED to be based on Red Alert 2. I don't know what you're pointing out here. No, I didn't know that. Now it makes more sense. But that confirms the fact that EA is retarded. Now I'm glad they didn't make Ren2.
It was Westwood that was making Renegade 2. EA Games canceled it. Edit: Thanks RenX, that's all I need.
fl00d3d wrote on Tue, 02 January 2007 21:48 Allied and Soviet bases in Ren2? That'd just be gay. It's bad enough that they're mixing Hell March w/ C&C3 ... and they also mixed RA with Ren2? Wtf is EA thinking? Renegade 2 was supposed to be the game that would link the Red Alert and Tiberian universes together. Sort of a prequel to Tiberian Dawn.
icedog90 wrote on Wed, 03 January 2007 00:39 Yeah, here: http://www.cnc-source.com/files/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=267 Thanks ^_^
Canadacdn wrote on Wed, 03 January 2007 00:33 fl00d3d wrote on Tue, 02 January 2007 21:48 Allied and Soviet bases in Ren2? That'd just be gay. It's bad enough that they're mixing Hell March w/ C&C3 ... and they also mixed RA with Ren2? Wtf is EA thinking? Renegade 2 was supposed to be the game that would link the Red Alert and Tiberian universes together. Sort of a prequel to Tiberian Dawn. They was already linked in Red Alert. It was the Brotherhood of Nod pushing the sovites to attack the Allies. After the Sovs won, Kane became the leader.
IWarriors wrote on Wed, 03 January 2007 09:19 Canadacdn wrote on Wed, 03 January 2007 00:33 fl00d3d wrote on Tue, 02 January 2007 21:48 Allied and Soviet bases in Ren2? That'd just be gay. It's bad enough that they're mixing Hell March w/ C&C3 ... and they also mixed RA with Ren2? Wtf is EA thinking? Renegade 2 was supposed to be the game that would link the Red Alert and Tiberian universes together. Sort of a prequel to Tiberian Dawn. They was already linked in Red Alert. It was the Brotherhood of Nod pushing the sovites to attack the Allies. After the Sovs won, Kane became the leader. He ment the missing link between red alert 2 and the tiberium universe. The obvious would be: allies win in RA -> RA2, soviets win in RA -> C&C.
Renegade 2 = what happens between both wars.
A bit of a shame, because I always thought those urban ruins would've been fun to play in.
ljbh, Renegade 2 should have came out
Yeah Renegade 2 was what was between Red Alert 2 and C&C Tiberian Dawn. Putting the pieces together, its rumoured that there's 2 different teams: Allies, and the Scavengers. Scavengers were basically a pro-Soviet insurgency against the Allies, secretly directed by Nod. That's the logo of the Scavengers faction. Notice how it has Nod's scorpion tale, and the Soviet star, as well as Russian. Also notice the bottom left where it says- Scavengers/Fallen Soviet Empire. It was also going to introduce the Mammoth tank, as seen on TAS's website. Tri-count = 10,000 Here's a Kirov Airship - notice the Scavenger logo. This is an untextured Rhinotank TAS also drew some concept drawings of infantry, as seen below there's 2 versions of the Seal and the Conscript soldier: There's also a tribute to Renegade 2 on the CnC-Source website. It briefly explains the theme of the game, and provides some more screenshots. It's a huge wealth of information of the possible sequal to Renegade. Here's some info found on the site- Quote: Renegade 2 was a project presented to Electronic Arts and was dismissed so it was never made. Renegade 2 was a Westwood project back when WW was still alive. The demo that was made for EA was purely an example of what the engine could handle, they showed it off using extremly high polygon models, a newer W3D format and a modified Renegade engine. That is why in everything we have seen of Renegade 2 has high poly models one of the biggest examples is the Scavenger Refinery map made by Chuck Carter. Other examples are the models that Westwood made for the demo these included a bunch of trees, rocks, Soviet and Allied Units and some Soviet Walls. ... Now since Renegade 2 demo which we've only seen screenshots of and have some of the models from it. We never knew what the story was going to be or anything but its most likly it would follow from Renegade 1's story. Which could have been a really great game if packed with all the features Renegade has now with features to match games like Unreal Tournament or Quake3. ... Now keep in mind here that Renegade 2 was only a show-off demo to EA so what they made for it does not mean it was a Red Alert based Renegade but lets speculate anyway from what they did use. The idea for the Renegade 2 demo though well from the screenshots we've and information we've seen suggest it was based after Red Alert 2 and the fact that one of the screenshots has a Hand of Nod with a smashed Soviet Hammer in its fist instead of the Earth in its grip as normal. Suggest it continued after Red Alert 2 as a transition to the Tiberian series. Which as we all know Red Alert 1 was a prequel to Tiberian Dawn originally until EA made Red Alert 2, so my guess is WW wanted to have some fun by merging them again. Which is really quite a fun idea even though they don't match up (Red Alert 2 the prequel to Tiberian Dawn I don't think so!). ... If this was turned into a full game we'd expect to see a world just before Tiberium crashed down in a meteor as it did in Tiberian Dawn. The falling Soviet empire would be scrapped together from parts like there falling empire, the Allied forces would be suffering from a bad economy because of so much money going into the War Effort. The game would tell the story of how the Soviets became the sneaky Brotherhood of Nod and how the government solved economic problems and formed the Global Defence Iniative. ... So we'd expect to see a more advanced technology then Red Alert 2 but looking scrapped together and made of cheap materials. We'd also see the begining of the change over by some Nod style units being on the Soviets and GDI style units being on GDI. The game would also have to tell somewhere how all the Red Alert 2 technology was lost before Tiberian Dawn. An explanation could be so much money went into the war effort and it costed so much to maintain old projects like the Chronosphere and Iron Curtain where closed down. They were forgotten when Tiberium hit the world years later and it was like a world wide gold rush for organisations. There's tonnes of more information out there, including what former Westwood employees have said about Renegade 2. It could've turned out to be a great game, since Westwood was picking up from any mistakes they've made in Ren, and improving the general game. They were also planning to really improve and concentrate on the multiplayer aspect, since most people who have the game loved the multiplayer.
I would LOVE to see this taken somewhere in the future, but I can't really see it happening.
If Renegade 2 came out, it would probably be the most popular game played. The only reason why I like Renegade is becuase it is unique in every way, not 1 other FPS game out there do you see buildings, nukes, ions, and so forth. This game is still unique to this day, why EA closed down Renegade 2, I have no idea. The graphics, even though Ren graphics aren't that great, the Ren 2 graphics look a lot better than Rens. If there was a way to convince EA to continue with Renegade 2, I sure as well would. Speaking of which, Tiberium Wars is comming out real soon (March 28th) which for sure I'm going to try. Maybe another Renegade will come out based off that, which honestly would be pretty cool.
Well, the fact that they are back into the C&C universe and aren't doing TOO shabby, there is hope, but it's the size of a piece of dust.
Im glad they turned back to the community but I'd much rather have Renegade 2 or something similar than C&C 3
If EA did decide to make a Renegade from C&C 3, it would probably be more battlefield-ish.
Actualy, the CnCNZ interview with Adam Isgreen shows that Renegade2 was PRETTY FAR in development when EA canceled it. Quote: # Renegade 2 was a Red-Alert 2 inspired version of Renegade that embraced the C&C multiplayer game mode as the core game play. You could build defenses on build pads, destroy and rebuild buildings, and directly or indirectly command units. The story was about a renegade Soviet commander who launches an assault on U.S. soil to restore pride to his family (He was a Romanov) after their defeat in RA2. * There was to be some humor in the missions - you had an Idaho mission that you could knock over a giant fake potato that was the town's symbol and roll it down a hill at enemies. * "1941" inspired boardwalk scenario with giant ferris wheel. * The giant ants were back in yet another secret mission. * There was an entire sub-game with spies stealing enemy tech and dogs detecting them. * Yes, you could play as a dog. The catch was you couldn't communicate / type to your friends, but you could bark. * The first mission was to take place at the Marin Headlands with the Golden Gate Bridge in the background. Kirovs were bombing the city, while a giant squid took down an Allied Carrier in the bay right behind your base. Epic coolness! iSm0k3r0x wrote on Thu, 04 January 2007 01:28 Tiberium Wars is comming out real soon (March 28th) which for sure I'm going to try. Maybe another Renegade will come out based off that, which honestly would be pretty cool. I think that we'll have a better chance of making a Tiberium Wars TC for Renegade. I had some plans for something like that, but finding a good team these days is a real pain... EDIT: Not to forget that i haven't modded Renegade since before jonwil started releasing the scripts.dll...
Holy crap, Renegade 2 would have been soooo good... Westwood was a brilliant company.
icedog90 wrote on Thu, 04 January 2007 01:46 Holy crap, Renegade 2 would have been soooo good... Westwood was a brilliant company. Hey, after all we're talking about the creators of the father of modern RTS
I'm sick of addons. The Starwars (Still in development) looks like crap. I don't know what they are calling it but it looks like crap, honestly. A Path Beyond isn't even fun, the maps are ridiculously huge, while barley anyone plays (Somedays it would be pretty active). C&C Reborn was horrible, glitchy and whatnot. The newer version still in development looks horrible. There was a Sole Survivor, which was pretty fun I will admit, seeing it was pratically capture the flag (Also had a little fun mission added to it). Sole Survivor was a good add on becusae it didn't have too much in to it. It was a fun multiplayer experience. Renegade can be used for so much, you have your skins, maps, RenGuard, mods (IE: A path beyond), Server side mods, and probably more out there. It's basically a free game that people can easily modify. I don't like it.
Mad Ivan wrote on Wed, 03 January 2007 18:49 icedog90 wrote on Thu, 04 January 2007 01:46 Holy crap, Renegade 2 would have been soooo good... Westwood was a brilliant company. Hey, after all we're talking about the creators of the father of modern RTS Especially that. Westwood made RTS's HUGE. When I was in elementary school (1990's) about every one of my friends had a C&C Game. If not for Computer, they had it for Nintendo 64. Everyone played it. Red Alert, all the expansions (My favorite was The Aftermath), Tiberium Sun, Red Alert 2, then I started playing Tiberium Sun 2. When Yuris Revenge came out it was all I played. I will admit, WarCraft III is probably the most played RTS out there right now (I'm not too sure about Generals, but that was EA made). Westwood shouldn't have sold their company to EA, but I don't think they had a choice..
It Depends on the POV: iSm0k3r0x wrote on Thu, 04 January 2007 01:50 The Starwars (Still in development) looks like crap. I don't know what they are calling it but it looks like crap, honestly. It's dead, HTMLGod canceled it. Quote: A Path Beyond isn't even fun, the maps are ridiculously huge, while barley anyone plays (Somedays it would be pretty active). APB is ment for bigger teams and bigger battles. It's more tactical-oriented than your average FPS. Quote: C&C Reborn was horrible, glitchy and whatnot. The newer version still in development looks horrible. The old version SUCKS INDEED. Hopefully, we'll see something fast-paced, futuristic and effective soon. Quote: There was a Sole Survivor, which was pretty fun I will admit, seeing it was pratically capture the flag (Also had a little fun mission added to it). Sole Survivor was a good add on becusae it didn't have too much in to it. It was a fun multiplayer experience. Indeed, too bad it was canceled and DriReign died...it had potential...all it need were better graphics...it would have rocked. You forgot to add the 20+ "Renegade2 Mods" that were in development but never saw the light of day... Quote: Renegade can be used for so much, you have your skins, maps, RenGuard, mods (IE: A path beyond), Server side mods, and probably more out there. It's basically a free game that people can easily modify. That's the best part. If you have a concept and you are creative enough to expand it, you've got it made. All you need are people to help you. EDIT: Quote: Westwood shouldn't have sold their company to EA, but I don't think they had a choice.. It wasn't their decision. It was Virgin Interactive's. They were the owners of WS at that time.
You know, all we need are people who are willing and have the skill to finish Renegade 2 the way it would have been, and a good open-source game engine. But then, there is that copyright problem with EA. That would be the hardest part.
Renegade Community, even though still alive, isn't active at all. 700 people on daily at a time, not enough for all these mods. Skins and Maps do make this game a little more fun, Lightwave being my favorite of all mods for Renegade period, even though a map Skins do bring this game to a disadvantage for a lot of players though. You have those people who use bright skins for stealth tanks (Making it impossible to hide) and loud sounds for stealth tanks (Making it impossible to even be steatlhy). Which is why I don't really like Skins, seeing I used skins, and advantage (Stealth, yeah, I know) but then I like the default colors and styles, and using stealth skins basically is just retarded which kinda made me realise how stupid I was for using them, I just use basic skins. I don't know, it might be just me, I don't really like skins.
Canadacdn wrote on Thu, 04 January 2007 01:59 *Points to sig* Heh, sorry about that. That reminded me, i should download Roleplay, never played it before
No way EA would let anyone make a Renegade 2 game, especially open-source, and ESPECIALLY without them profiting from it.
Canadacdn wrote on Wed, 03 January 2007 19:02 No way EA would let anyone make a Renegade 2 game, especially open-source, and ESPECIALLY without them profiting from it. Yeah, Renegade 2 is basically, well, fucked...
Mad Ivan wrote on Thu, 04 January 2007 02:02 Canadacdn wrote on Thu, 04 January 2007 01:59 *Points to sig* Heh, sorry about that. That reminded me, i should download Roleplay, never played it before Rp2 is a great fun "sandbox" map similar to GTA. We are in desperate need for support.
I just wish all of the great ideas behind Renegade 2 wouldn't go to waste...
iSm0k3r0x wrote on Thu, 04 January 2007 02:04 Canadacdn wrote on Wed, 03 January 2007 19:02 No way EA would let anyone make a Renegade 2 game, especially open-source, and ESPECIALLY without them profiting from it. Yeah, Renegade 2 is basically, well, fucked... The only options left are making a mod for an existing EA product (eg. Renegade or BF2142) or waiting for EA...for some strange reason ( ) i highly doubt the second.. EDIT: Quote: I just wish all of the great ideas behind Renegade 2 wouldn't go to waste... Well, apb is close to Ren2 storyline-wise, so some stuff could go over there. Remember that they are already doing Giant Ants. Now all they need is the Dog/Spy mini-game
Lol basing it off of San Andreas? LOL!!! Looks sweet actually
Call guys from Westwood and bug them for Ren2's engine? I don't know, I'm at a loss for ideas.
They may not be. There's a mod on standby which most of the members of AR are moving too which is called IvN (Ion vs Nuke) and based around the Ren2/TW era. Currently this mod is inactive and only a few high res models have been made by Ric, but i see a good future in this mod and i hope it'll be a success.
I believe EA owns rights over anything they made for Renegade 2.
If we somehow got Renegade 2's engine, it is a different engine than W3D, and EA couldn't do shit. Right? Unless they also have the rights to it, but I doubt it, seeing as the game never went into production.
Something else worth noting: These are portraits on the Temple of Nod's interior walls, Renegade's last level. Apocolypse Tank in Renegade... hmmm. Its obvious the 2 series were going to be linked, since there now is an Ra2 asset in a Tiberian-series game. We can only suggest, that with all this information, pics, and interviews released, that Renegade 2 was going to fill in the gap between Red Alert 2 and Tiberian Dawn.
Canadacdn wrote on Thu, 04 January 2007 02:10 Call guys from Westwood and bug them for Ren2's engine? I don't know, I'm at a loss for ideas. They probably don't have it. It could have been lost during the transition. Besides, it's abilities are "dated", compared to other modern FPS' out there. And even if they did have it AND give it to us, it would erupt a massive legal war between Petroglyph and EA and i doubt that they want that . Quote: There's a mod on standby which most of the members of AR are moving too which is called IvN (Ion vs Nuke) and based around the Ren2/TW era. Currently this mod is inactive and only a few high res models have been made by Ric, but i see a good future in this mod and i hope it'll be a success. I hope it will go somewhere. The last few R2 mods that i've seen looked like (pardon the expression) utter crap. EDIT: (@Fobby) Yeah, i remember those. Damn, got to play the Campaign again
[quote title=iSm0k3r0x wrote on Wed, 03 January 2007 19:02]Renegade Community, even though still alive, isn't active at all. 700 people on daily at a time, not enough for all these mods.quote] That's not all very true. According to the Renguard mainpage, 2922 players have logged into RenGuard in the last 24 hours. So thats about 3000 people in 24 hours,that number does NOT include the people who don't use Renguard (like myself) who account for about less than half of the players. About 500-600 people (400-450 on WOL, 100-150 on GSA) play Renegade at any given time as well. So Renegade is still pretty much alive.
Fobby, that hud is bad ass... Can you post a DL? (yeah i want it, so what, skins still suck)
Renegade is full of life, especially on weekends.
Even though the Renegade 2 engine doesn't compete with modern FPS games, it still is a whole lot better than what we're stuck with now. And besides, I believe in gameplay much more than graphics.
icedog90 wrote on Wed, 03 January 2007 19:30 Even though the Renegade 2 engine doesn't compete with modern FPS games, it still is a whole lot better than what we're stuck with now. And besides, I believe in gameplay much more than graphics. With you 100%, and if you look at it, graphics really aren't that bad at all. Renegade graphics aren't bad at all, compaired to other games they aren't the greatest, but lets be honest, they aren't horrible at all.
icedog90 wrote on Thu, 04 January 2007 02:30 Even though the Renegade 2 engine doesn't compete with modern FPS games, it still is a whole lot better than what we're stuck with now. Post-Process shaders?
Would like to point out, yet again, Renegade is unique, and people still play it. Even though it is outdated, I bet the whole Renegade community would probably come back and start playing Renegade if Renegade 2 came out. Hell if Renegade 2 came out, Renegade 3 would probably be in the process.
All this community needs is something big, and I think it'd get more players. Post-processing it may be, but undoubtedly the Renegade 2 engine had more features and things it supported, as far as gameplay aspects go.
Renegade 2 used a new lighting engine, which made everything look a lot better. Notice the beams, as well as the light on the ground below the beams.
I noticed that there are trees missing from the Renegade 2 assets download. That's too bad... since the pack only has three unique trees.
Looks awesome indeed...dated, but awesome. Ahhh...got to start looking thru my CnC3 ideas...maybe i might start that mod after all...
The graphics were pretty impressive for 2002, I'm sure a Renegade 3 would have came out of this one was a success. Man... if only things went right.
I don't have a problem with EA buying out WW, it's how companys work. But I really wish EA continued Renegade 2, and finished it. They would have made a lot of profit off of it, no doubt.
Strange how the beams don't light up the tanks.
[NE Fobby[GEN] wrote on Thu, 04 January 2007 00:52]Man... if only things went right. We can never tell what the future may hold, so how do you know it would be right? Sure it would be great if WW were still around, but if EA was never going to publish them who would? If you think of it, Westwood would still be here if someone other than EA chose to publish them.
fl00d3d wrote on Wed, 03 January 2007 01:14 icedog90 wrote on Wed, 03 January 2007 00:50 I hope you know that Renegade 2 was SUPPOSED to be based on Red Alert 2. I don't know what you're pointing out here. No, I didn't know that. Now it makes more sense. But that confirms the fact that EA is retarded. Now I'm glad they didn't make Ren2. Every post you make, makes you look more like a fucking fool.
Merovingian wrote on Wed, 03 January 2007 21:12 Sure it would be great if WW were still around, but if EA was never going to publish them who would? Look at the old Westwood games. Virgin used to publish the older games, and Westwood bought them.
What about asking Petroglyph to make a new FPS game. Ofcourse they wouldn't be able to make it a C&C title but I'm sure they could still make a new unique story. And give it perhaps an even better gameplay experience. Perhaps someone could come up with a petition of sorts and even outline ideas for the game in it and then send that to petroglyph. Tell them they even have the full support of the Renegade Community and perhaps more.
Yeah, I'd love to have a new Renegade-type game, even if its not C&C.
once C&C 3 comes out, renegade won't be as alive as is.. i'd probably still play it every once in a while, but not much, lol i barly play anyway
I dont think C&C 3 will effect Renegade's numbers. They're different game types all together, a lot of the people who play Renegade don't play the other C&C games anyway.
So painful to look at, it makes me want it (very, very much). =(
icedog90 wrote on Wed, 03 January 2007 17:59 You know, all we need are people who are willing and have the skill to finish Renegade 2 the way it would have been, and a good open-source game engine. But then, there is that copyright problem with EA. That would be the hardest part. IIRC, back when the Leipzieg convention was held, EA expressed that they'll support RA:APB and Reborn if they decide to move to another engine. If they meant another EA Games game engine, and if they meant all C&C modifications, I don't remember too well. But I remember the general feeling for me was "Awesome, this is vague enough so that the community could essentially write their own engine and make a C&C game out of it!"
Perhaps all the mod teams (from APB and Reborn and RA2:AR and whatever else) could start working on something that is very very close to what Renegade 2 would be, then when EA sees it, they'll say that their assets were stolen and sue the team like Microsoft did to Halogen which would force them to start working on a C&C FPS. Just maybe... Renegade itself is one of the most "living" multiplayer FPS I've seen at its age. I don't really see a lot of people playing newer FPS's like SW: Battlefront. In fact, I think a game would run better if it's run by people in the community who are dedicated to seeing the game live on. Get Roleplay 2 now by the way, its great.
cmatt42 wrote on Thu, 04 January 2007 23:49 Leipzieg not Leipzieg ...LEIPZIG i live there...so spell it right^^ its all about if's and when's ... if EA give us the sourcecode... when do they do this... a*cheat name removed*... even the renegadesourcecode would be a good start... i personally dont think that EA give us R2 without money... I hate EA anyway... if they publish a new C&C Game.... i maybe won'T buy it... don'T want to support their bussiness..
Just so you know. There is both a Renegade 2 mod and Tiberium Wars Mod in development. Renegade 2 mod Tiberium Wars Mod EA should give us the Ren2 lighting engine. That would look so sweet if it could be put into normal Renegade.
Well, so much for my TW Mod plans...
glyde51 wrote on Thu, 04 January 2007 01:10 So painful to look at, it makes me want it (very, very much). =( I was about to say the same thing. and has crimson put an auto correct thing in to auto replace a*cheat name removed*
one winged angel wrote on Sun, 07 January 2007 08:01 EA should give us the Ren2 lighting engine. That would look so sweet if it could be put into normal Renegade. Good luck.
Canadacdn wrote on Mon, 08 January 2007 04:38 one winged angel wrote on Sun, 07 January 2007 08:01 EA should give us the Ren2 lighting engine. That would look so sweet if it could be put into normal Renegade. Good luck. I heard a strange rumour that ACK has Ren2. I seriously doubt that though.
Quote: I heard a strange rumour that ACK has Ren2. I seriously doubt that though. As far as i can remember, he was lying.
Canadacdn wrote on Mon, 08 January 2007 12:38 one winged angel wrote on Sun, 07 January 2007 08:01 EA should give us the Ren2 lighting engine. That would look so sweet if it could be put into normal Renegade. Good luck. EA has nothing to lose in releasing an old "useless" engine to people.
They got nothing to win either, that's the problem.
The W3D source code isn't useless to them... parts of the code are used in the SAGE engine (Generals, BFME, BFME2, C&C 3) I even heard that they are using part of the code for some of their other games, like Battlefield 2.