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Religious Zealot forces airport to take down Christmas Trees
Summary: The seatle airport has put up Christmas trees for the past 10 years. This year, some fuckhole threatened to sue them because the trees didn't represent his religion. Apparently he would have been satisfied if they allowed him to put up an 8 foot menorah (I doubt he really wanted this and he was most likey being sarcastic). So he gave them a deadline of 2 days to meet his demands, or else he would sue. The airport didn't have time to deal with him so they complied and took down the decorations. I have no problem with freedom of religion, and yeah I can obviously see that Christmas trees do not represent his religion, but what the fuck are they supposed to do? Reserve half of the aiport space so they can put up Menorahs, Buddahs, and the like to make sure they cover every religion so that someone won't sue them? I think its sad that they were forced to undecorate the airport just to avoid being sued. Would it be so bad if the airport were able to say basically, "too bad if you don't like it, these decorations have been put up every year and they aren't bothering anyone but you so fuck off"? Come on, do you believe this guy was actually offended by Christmas trees...more likely he just raised a stink because he wanted attention...otherwise he would be doing the same thing to every department store and mall in the area as well. news story SEA-TAC Airport - All of the Christmas trees inside the terminal at Sea-Tac have been removed in response to a complaint by a rabbi. A local rabbi wanted to install an 8-foot menorah and have a public lighting ceremony. He threatened to sue if the menorah wasn’t put up, and gave a two-day deadline to remove the trees... The same decorations have been put up for at least 10 years... The full story is at http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_120906WABxmastreesEL.11b0d0cc.html#
Re: Religious Zealot forces airport take down Christmas Trees
I would note, for the record, that I am not Christian... and the fact that my family puts up a Christmas tree every year doesn't bother me in the slightest. It's fun to decorate, the holiday provides a wonderful and happy occasion for the whole family to gather- which doesn't happen the rest of the year- and it's tradition. I know predominantly Jewish and Wiccan folks who decorate for Christmas- how do you explain that away? As far as culture in this country goes, Christmas is no longer just a religious occasion. Anyone who cares to argue that point can go ahead and take a trip to any major city and check out the decorations that go up after Thanksgiving- and I don't just mean in stores. My stated opinion is that if it weren't Christmas, then it would be some other holiday- call it commercialization, call it culture, call it whatever you want, but every season has a mainstream holiday that the vast majority of people will recognize even if they don't celebrate it. I'll never understand why people have to destroy one tradition in order to promote another. If it makes people happy to celebrate a holiday, and if the celebration of that holiday does no one any harm, it isn't and cannot be a bad thing.
WOW i cant beleive someone would raise a stink about something like a decorated tree.Its the same as store clerks not being able to say merry christmas.christmas is not just a religious thing its a holiday and festive season.personally i have no clue what religion i am because my dads side is muslim and my moms is anglican( i think i spelled that right), but obviously someone must have shit in this guys cornflakes that day or something.
People will do anything for attention. Sidenote: To the best of my knowledge, "trees" (Christmas trees) have absolutely no religious value whatsoever. So what was the argument? To me the trees seem like a seasonal tradition - not a religious celebration.
fl00d3d wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 23:49 People will do anything for attention. Sidenote: To the best of my knowledge, "trees" (Christmas trees) have absolutely no religious value whatsoever. So what was the argument? To me the trees seem like a seasonal tradition - not a religious celebration. For fucksake take a reality check?? What is Christmas all about? Does Christianity mean something, anything to you, anything at all? But then again when you make the above statement you must be the seasonal half-wit, but thats an insult to the half-wit. Google Christmas tree + tradition. See what it shows.
puddle_splasher wrote on Sun, 10 December 2006 05:41 fl00d3d wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 23:49 People will do anything for attention. Sidenote: To the best of my knowledge, "trees" (Christmas trees) have absolutely no religious value whatsoever. So what was the argument? To me the trees seem like a seasonal tradition - not a religious celebration.
Welcome to the world, full of idiots with wrinkly nutsacs and saggy tits who try and be attention whores by spoiling the world for everyone. What a faggot... Now the Jews have a lot of laws within their religion, some kinda useful, some (imo) just kinda stupid, but there is no where in the Jewish religion saying it is against their law to look at, or be in a room with, or stand next to, or have any kind of interaction with symbols of other religions. So the guy who threatened to sue the airport has almost no argument. It's not against his religion, he might not like it, but that's too bad for him, go use another airport then. If you wanna take it a step further, a Christmas tree is barely a sign of Christianity. Sure it's a sign of Christmas, but the commercialized version, not the true spirit of the Christian Christmas. Well sorry for not representing every other holiday, but if he would get his head out of your ass once in a while you'd realize Christmas trees are symbols of the holidays in general. I have some Buddhist friends who celebrate Christmas!! I think people need to stop giving in to these attention whores just cuz they don't wanna deal with them. They should go to court with this guy just to shut him up. What would his case be? "Oh, well I don't like them." So? Go sit in a corner pisshead and stare at the wall so 1, you won't have to look at the Christmas trees, and 2, so you won't bother any of us normal people.
Sigh, people are so stupid. (Atheist, BTW)
Re: Religious Zealot forces airport to take down Christmas Trees
So you tell me where in the Bible it says that Christmas trees have absolutely ANY value? Its a man made tradition that is synonymous with Christmas because of traditions. But it has absolutely no value religiously. Which was the entire point of what I said. You simply misread it.
puddle_splasher wrote on Sun, 10 December 2006 05:41 fl00d3d wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 23:49 People will do anything for attention. Sidenote: To the best of my knowledge, "trees" (Christmas trees) have absolutely no religious value whatsoever. So what was the argument? To me the trees seem like a seasonal tradition - not a religious celebration. For fucksake take a reality check?? What is Christmas all about? Does Christianity mean something, anything to you, anything at all? But then again when you make the above statement you must be the seasonal half-wit, but thats an insult to the half-wit. Google Christmas tree + tradition. See what it shows. I see you are still up to your "Google this and that" strategy...anyway dude he was just stating his opinion, no need to call him a "seasonal half-wit" because you disagree. Christmas trees have as much to do with Christmas as does the Easter bunny with Easter. Yes they are part of the tradition but the religious value is somewhat unimportant. You can burn the trees, throw away the expensive presents, and turn off the pretty lights but that still does not stop the true meaning of why some still celebrate Christmas: the birth of Jesus Christ. In my opinion the airport should have left the trees up there but it also made me wonder, how many of those trees actually had Christian symbols on them?
fl00d3d wrote on Sun, 10 December 2006 17:20 So you tell me where in the Bible it says that Christmas trees have absolutely ANY value? Its a man made tradition that is synonymous with Christmas because of traditions. But it has absolutely no value religiously. Which was the entire point of what I said. You simply misread it. Flood, its always the bible with you. The bible this the bible that. Why is that? Almost every topic that gets opened, you manage to get the bible into it, why? It does not matter wether the topic warrants a biblical mention or not, you still manage it. What about all other Religious books or dont you acknowledge them and their religions? Are you so narrow minded that the Bible is the be all and end all? Ive said to you before, the bible is a story based around a specific person, in a specific time,in a specific place, by specific people, for a specific purpose. Back to Christmas Trees. If Christians want a Christmas tree then who the F*ck are others to worry about it. If you dont like it then dont look at the tree. Better still keep those people in their houses for the whole of festive period. This is edited for ARMY GO!! The baubles, candles, angel and star, all have Christian conortations. A Christmas tree without those additions is simply a fir tree. Therefore I would be very surprised if the tree had none of the above. Oh look what google gives. Oh no its not the bible so it must be wrong. The Legend of the First Christmas Tree The night of the Saviour's birth, all the living creatures, both flora and fauna, came to Bethlehem with gifts. The olive tree brought its fruit and the palm its dates. But the little fir tree had no gift and was so tired it couldn't resist when the big trees pushed it into the background and hid it from view. But then a nearby angel took pity and commanded a cluster of stars to come and rest on its delicate boughs. When the Baby Jesus beheld this lovely lighted tree, He smiled and blessed it, declaring henceforth that fir trees should always be filled with lights at Christmastime to please little children.
The first known decorated christmas tree was in 1510 and wasn't for religious reasons
The same site that i got the above statement from, records one from 700ad.
puddle_splasher wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 05:21 Flood, its always the bible with you. The bible this the bible that. Why is that? Almost every topic that gets opened, you manage to get the bible into it, why? yeah flooded, stop bringing the Bible into religious discussions where it obviously doesn't belong
fl00d3d wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 23:49 People will do anything for attention. Sidenote: To the best of my knowledge, "trees" (Christmas trees) have absolutely no religious value whatsoever. So what was the argument? To me the trees seem like a seasonal tradition - not a religious celebration. Christmas Trees have something to do with Christains / Catholics because of Saint Nick (aka "Santa") St. Nick devoted himself to God, giving lots of gifts to the poor and needy, etc. So someone decided to make Christmas Trees the symbol of the holiday. I find it funny how you question only Christmas Trees when other religions have other random symbols. P.S. I would like to know why all of a sudden, this year seemed to fire up Non-Christian / Catholics to be outraged about the word "Christmas" In an airport near where I live, they were too, forced to put down the tree. But, I must agree, most commercials only say "Have a good Christmas" etc. When there are a couple more religious holidays. (Sorry if some of this did not make sense, im kinda high, lawly.)
Interesting fact: Jesus wasn't born in December; more than likely he was born in July or August. The shepherds wouldn't have taken their sheep out to graze at night, as it would have been too cold for them. Additionaly, the reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus on December is because it coincides with the winter solstice, a Wiccan holy day called Yule (December 21). According to Wicca, this day is the day when the Goddess gives birth to a son, the God; the solstice has long been viewed by Wiccans as a time of divine births. The Christians adopted it for their use to help convert Wiccans to Christianity. Merry Christmas!
Since when do trees have any religious importance concerning Christmas? I was always taught that it was to celebrate the birth of Christ... not the birth of Christ and decorated evergreen trees.
Quote: The baubles, candles, angel and star, all have Christian conortations. A Christmas tree without those additions is simply a fir tree. Therefore I would be very surprised if the tree had none of the above. Yes you are right, thats why I was wondering if the trees in the Seattle airport had any of those things. Alot of the trees I see around here(my school campus) have none of those things. The legend you quoted is just that...a legend. Yes its a sweet story but even with your statement of 700AD it is still around 700 years after the birth of Jesus. That would be like us today recording the events of the Hundred Years War. Quote: Flood, its always the bible with you. The bible this the bible that. Why is that? Almost every topic that gets opened, you manage to get the bible into it, why? So I decided to search the forums for flood3d's bible references you say are in "almost every topic." Why? Because I think you are full of shit...anyway only found two..this topic and a topic on the movie "The Passion of the Christ" http://www.renegadeforums.com/index.php?SQ=b5905306f0899ca0ff13241606521619& t=search&srch=Bible&btn_submit=Search&field=all&forum_limiter=&a mp;search_logic=AND&sort_order=DESC&author=fl00d3d+
U927 wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 11:40 Interesting fact: Jesus wasn't born in December; more than likely he was born in July or August. The shepherds wouldn't have taken their sheep out to graze at night, as it would have been too cold for them. Additionaly, the reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus on December is because it coincides with the winter solstice, a Wiccan holy day called Yule (December 21). According to Wicca, this day is the day when the Goddess gives birth to a son, the God; the solstice has long been viewed by Wiccans as a time of divine births. The Christians adopted it for their use to help convert Wiccans to Christianity. Merry Christmas! THE BIBLE DOES NOT AGREE!! So you MUST be wrong
GoArmy44 wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 13:16 Quote: The baubles, candles, angel and star, all have Christian conortations. A Christmas tree without those additions is simply a fir tree. Therefore I would be very surprised if the tree had none of the above. Yes you are right, thats why I was wondering if the trees in the Seattle airport had any of those things. Alot of the trees I see around here(my school campus) have none of those things. The legend you quoted is just that...a legend. Yes its a sweet story but even with your statement of 700AD it is still around 700 years after the birth of Jesus. That would be like us today recording the events of the Hundred Years War. Quote: Flood, its always the bible with you. The bible this the bible that. Why is that? Almost every topic that gets opened, you manage to get the bible into it, why? So I decided to search the forums for flood3d's bible references you say are in "almost every topic." Why? Because I think you are full of shit...anyway only found two..this topic and a topic on the movie "The Passion of the Christ" http://www.renegadeforums.com/index.php?SQ=b5905306f0899ca0ff13241606521619& t=search&srch=Bible&btn_submit=Search&field=all&forum_limiter=&a mp;a mp;a mp;search_logic=AND&sort_order=DESC&author=fl00d3d+ The legend!! THE LEGEND????? Thats the fucking bible that you talk about. Its a legend. Aghhhhh its type specific to a person???????? You misunderstood me, almost every reply on this forum, regarding Flood mentions the bible. Certainly not, this one and only topic. However, some of us are more mature and read, analyse and decide from more than one place. That does not make us bad people, nor does it make you a bad person for believing in a simple book.
The New Testament is not a "a nonhistorical or unverifiable story handed down by tradition from earlier times and popularly accepted as historical." Especially when things start appearing that suggest Jesus was a real, and important, person. It's as much a historical text as is anything else that recorded history at that time. ( http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101021104-384797,00.html ) The Old Testament, you would have a better time arguing as a legend, as that was passed down before history was physically written.
puddle_splasher wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 15:45 U927 wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 11:40 Interesting fact: Jesus wasn't born in December; more than likely he was born in July or August. The shepherds wouldn't have taken their sheep out to graze at night, as it would have been too cold for them. Additionaly, the reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus on December is because it coincides with the winter solstice, a Wiccan holy day called Yule (December 21). According to Wicca, this day is the day when the Goddess gives birth to a son, the God; the solstice has long been viewed by Wiccans as a time of divine births. The Christians adopted it for their use to help convert Wiccans to Christianity. Merry Christmas! THE BIBLE DOES NOT AGREE!! So you MUST be wrong Pray tell, where does the Bible disagree? Oh wait, you're going to want me to Google it, or are you going to actually show validating proof of this absurd claim?
Quote: However, some of us are more mature and read, analyse and decide from more than one place. Yes, its always good to have more than one source when studying history. Other than the bible, Tacitus and Josephus both mention Jesus in their writings, of which Tacitus is considered the premier historian of the era. But for religious dealings I turn no farther than the bible. Like you said I am not a bad person because of this and if someone does not believe that, they are no more wrong than I am. For you being more mature than I am, your language, style of writing, and your seemingly out of the blue insults to flood3d make me believe you are no more mature than any of us here.
j_ball430 wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 17:22 puddle_splasher wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 15:45 U927 wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 11:40 Interesting fact: Jesus wasn't born in December; more than likely he was born in July or August. The shepherds wouldn't have taken their sheep out to graze at night, as it would have been too cold for them. Additionaly, the reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus on December is because it coincides with the winter solstice, a Wiccan holy day called Yule (December 21). According to Wicca, this day is the day when the Goddess gives birth to a son, the God; the solstice has long been viewed by Wiccans as a time of divine births. The Christians adopted it for their use to help convert Wiccans to Christianity. Merry Christmas! THE BIBLE DOES NOT AGREE!! So you MUST be wrong Pray tell, where does the Bible disagree? Oh wait, you're going to want me to Google it, or are you going to actually show validating proof of this absurd claim? Show me your claim that Christmas trees are not mentioned in the Bible. You are reading from a BOOK!!! a book that was written and translated, rewritten and translated, many times over and still you believe, in such a book!!! So you show me that the bible, the volume of the sacred law, mentions no Christmas tree. Go on prove to me that its not mentioned. You must understand that this is about faith!! Not proof, because as you cannot give me proof, neither can I. However its all about translations, hopefully we agree to disagree. So for all the kids that are here, I ask ask that you put a Christmas tree and ask santa to lay your gifts at the bottom of it. Another edit for Army!! My friend and I say that sincerely. You are one of the few that agree with looking outwith the Bible. Thats all I ask. For where truth may lie in one book, so must some lies. Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall hear. Knock and it shall be answered. TY Army.
You are so PREDICTABLE. You come out with this outlandish claims, and then you expect ME to prove to you? That's not how it works. What would you say if I was to claim that you're going to die tonight, and then told you to prove to me that you're not? You'd think that I'm an idiot... just as I think of you right now. This is the story of Christmas: Mary is immaculately impregnated. Joseph and her were not married, and though they didn't have sex, everybody would believe otherwise... I mean, she's pregnant, and they didn't have sex? Unlikely. Anyways, time comes for her to give birth. They try to find shelter, and they end up having to stay in a stable. The baby is born in a stable with animals around them... he's born in a trough/manger. Three wise men follow a STAR and then give GIFTS to Jesus. In that story I see the nativity scene, a star, and gifts. No sign of any tree... at all. I don't think the three wise men were walking towards the star, saw a tree, chopped it down, and brought it with them to the manger, and strung lights on it. No tree. If you disagree. YOU prove otherwise. Else, I will laugh at your claims.
There are no Christmas trees in the bible. 'Tards.
Again you do it!! You quote the Bible!! It is words in a book. What do other books say on the matter? WHY is the Bible correct? Its your choice to believe what the bible says. No matter that it was written a few hundred years after the death of Jesus and being passed by word of mouth, changed to suit interpretations. Yet you still believe it is word perfect. Just because you cannot "see" what you seek, then you must translate as everyone else has done. Anyone can translate the bible to "say" what they want it to say. I ask only that you can understand that context. I am also pretty sure that you can. Therefore if people want to put up Christmas trees in Seattle Airport, let them. If people want to complain let them. Take down the trees, regardless of where they originated from!!! Under no circumstances!!!
Err.. people ALWAYS quote words from a book... be it good or ill. People do it from the words of Americas "Founding Fathers" in order to justify anti-government groups. People do it from history books to justify slavery. People do it from philosophy books to help better our understanding of ourselves. Did you know that the Bible is regarded by professionals (inclusing non-religious) as the most accurately recorded book in the history of man, regardless of it's numerous translations? The people copying the books purposefully did so in order to preserve the message it was giving.
puddle_splasher wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 16:34 Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall hear. Knock and it shall be answered. This is a quote from the Bible. There are no Christmas trees in the Bible. You are an asshole. QED
puddle_splasher wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 16:34 j_ball430 wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 17:22 puddle_splasher wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 15:45 U927 wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 11:40 Interesting fact: Jesus wasn't born in December; more than likely he was born in July or August. The shepherds wouldn't have taken their sheep out to graze at night, as it would have been too cold for them. Additionaly, the reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus on December is because it coincides with the winter solstice, a Wiccan holy day called Yule (December 21). According to Wicca, this day is the day when the Goddess gives birth to a son, the God; the solstice has long been viewed by Wiccans as a time of divine births. The Christians adopted it for their use to help convert Wiccans to Christianity. Merry Christmas! THE BIBLE DOES NOT AGREE!! So you MUST be wrong Pray tell, where does the Bible disagree? Oh wait, you're going to want me to Google it, or are you going to actually show validating proof of this absurd claim? Show me your claim that Christmas trees are not mentioned in the Bible. You are reading from a BOOK!!! a book that was written and translated, rewritten and translated, many times over and still you believe, in such a book!!! So you show me that the bible, the volume of the sacred law, mentions no Christmas tree. Go on prove to me that its not mentioned. You must understand that this is about faith!! Not proof, because as you cannot give me proof, neither can I. However its all about translations, hopefully we agree to disagree. So for all the kids that are here, I ask ask that you put a Christmas tree and ask santa to lay your gifts at the bottom of it. Another edit for Army!! My friend and I say that sincerely. You are one of the few that agree with looking outwith the Bible. Thats all I ask. For where truth may lie in one book, so must some lies. Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall hear. Knock and it shall be answered. TY Army. No one can show you that the bible doesn't mention a Christmas tree in it. You have to read it yourself. As for my word, I have read it and it does not make any account of a Christmas tree. Therefore the asshat dude mentioned in the firstpost's argument is VOID. Personally, I'm getting sick of my religion being persecuted because other people are offended by it. I'm not offended by the religious values or lack there of in Athiests, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, ect. In fact, if there were a Minorah in the Airport and not a Christmas tree you wouldn't hear a peep out of me.
http://blamebush.typepad.com/blamebush/2006/12/nazi_trees_assa.html The seriousness of that article resembles my opinion on this issue.
gbull wrote on Tue, 12 December 2006 10:35 puddle_splasher wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 16:34 j_ball430 wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 17:22 puddle_splasher wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 15:45 U927 wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 11:40 Interesting fact: Jesus wasn't born in December; more than likely he was born in July or August. The shepherds wouldn't have taken their sheep out to graze at night, as it would have been too cold for them. Additionaly, the reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus on December is because it coincides with the winter solstice, a Wiccan holy day called Yule (December 21). According to Wicca, this day is the day when the Goddess gives birth to a son, the God; the solstice has long been viewed by Wiccans as a time of divine births. The Christians adopted it for their use to help convert Wiccans to Christianity. Merry Christmas! THE BIBLE DOES NOT AGREE!! So you MUST be wrong Pray tell, where does the Bible disagree? Oh wait, you're going to want me to Google it, or are you going to actually show validating proof of this absurd claim? Show me your claim that Christmas trees are not mentioned in the Bible. You are reading from a BOOK!!! a book that was written and translated, rewritten and translated, many times over and still you believe, in such a book!!! So you show me that the bible, the volume of the sacred law, mentions no Christmas tree. Go on prove to me that its not mentioned. You must understand that this is about faith!! Not proof, because as you cannot give me proof, neither can I. However its all about translations, hopefully we agree to disagree. So for all the kids that are here, I ask ask that you put a Christmas tree and ask santa to lay your gifts at the bottom of it. Another edit for Army!! My friend and I say that sincerely. You are one of the few that agree with looking outwith the Bible. Thats all I ask. For where truth may lie in one book, so must some lies. Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall hear. Knock and it shall be answered. TY Army. No one can show you that the bible doesn't mention a Christmas tree in it. You have to read it yourself. As for my word, I have read it and it does not make any account of a Christmas tree. Therefore the asshat dude mentioned in the firstpost's argument is VOID. Personally, I'm getting sick of my religion being persecuted because other people are offended by it. I'm not offended by the religious values or lack there of in Athiests, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, ect. In fact, if there were a Minorah in the Airport and not a Christmas tree you wouldn't hear a peep out of me. Well said and I agree totally.
Sure it can be shown. 1. Create a searchable database. 2. Scan the entire text. 3. Paste pictures of the results of the "find" function as showing zero results when looking for the words "Christmas Tree". /sarcasm
For everyone who can't take sarcasm: http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/kjv/simple.html
Ohhh a followup story! news story Maintenance staff worked overnight to restore the 14 plastic trees that had been removed during the weekend because of a rabbi's threat to sue over the lack of a menorah in the airport's holiday decor. Airport managers believed that if they allowed the addition of an 8-foot-tall menorah to the display, as Seattle Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky had requested, they would also have to display symbols of other religions and cultures. Airport workers didn't have time to do that during the busy travel season, Airport Director Mark Reis said...There were no immediate plans to display a menorah, airport spokesman Bob Parker said...."We are not going to be the instrument by which the port holds Christmas hostage,"... Yeah! Take that! news story After the removal, some airline workers decorated ticketing counters with their own miniature Christmas trees. Frontier Airlines customer service agents pooled their money to buy four 1-foot-high trees and placed them on their ticket counter. Delta Air Line workers put up a single larger tree. The airlines lease space for ticket counters from the airport, and can display trees there if they want, Reis said. LOL Here's the full story update: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061212/D8LVDM1O0.html
nicely done
Sea-Tac is the best little airport in the world, btw.
That's just too funny. My fiancee and I were talking about this topic the other day, and I wondered when something like this would happen. NOW, back to the arguments since there was a lot said about me and I have been MIA from these forums for a few days and after much has transpired: puddle_splasher wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 06:21 Flood, its always the bible with you. The bible this the bible that. Why is that? Almost every topic that gets opened, you manage to get the bible into it, why? WTF are you talking about, lol? As shown above, I have only brought it into two arguments ... this one, since you so ignorantly discredited a source of faith for the largest religion on the planet; including the old testament which is regarded as holy to both muslims and jews (the other largest world religions). You're very alone on this argument. puddle_splasher wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 06:21 Are you so narrow minded that the Bible is the be all and end all? You're right, I'm narrow-minded becuase of my religious beliefs. I guess that would make you ignorant? On the topic of the Bible, if you must know, I believe that there are many things in the old testament which are more figurative than literal (mostly during the creation). As for the new testament, I feel it is fairly literal and accurate, yes. That is my belief, and if you think I am narrow-minded because of it ... that, sir, makes you ignorant. puddle_splasher wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 06:21 The baubles, candles, angel and star, all have Christian conortations. A Christmas tree without those additions is simply a fir tree. Therefore I would be very surprised if the tree had none of the above. Oh look what google gives. Oh no its not the bible so it must be wrong. The Legend of the First Christmas Tree The night of the Saviour's birth, all the living creatures, both flora and fauna, came to Bethlehem with gifts. The olive tree brought its fruit and the palm its dates. But the little fir tree had no gift and was so tired it couldn't resist when the big trees pushed it into the background and hid it from view. But then a nearby angel took pity and commanded a cluster of stars to come and rest on its delicate boughs. When the Baby Jesus beheld this lovely lighted tree, He smiled and blessed it, declaring henceforth that fir trees should always be filled with lights at Christmastime to please little children. (1) lol (2) If you're going to attempt to discredit the Bible, then you must at least understand the text that is within it. Which you obviously do not. There is absolutely no reference of your little story above or anything close to it in the Bible. And if you want to pull the "I dont believe this" argument again, then I pull the "you're very alone" argument again. MaidenTy1 wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 09:07 puddle_splasher wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 05:21 Flood, its always the bible with you. The bible this the bible that. Why is that? Almost every topic that gets opened, you manage to get the bible into it, why? yeah flooded, stop bringing the Bible into religious discussions where it obviously doesn't belong Sorry ;-( U927 wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 12:40 Interesting fact: Jesus wasn't born in December; more than likely he was born in July or August. The shepherds wouldn't have taken their sheep out to graze at night, as it would have been too cold for them. Additionaly, the reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus on December is because it coincides with the winter solstice, a Wiccan holy day called Yule (December 21). According to Wicca, this day is the day when the Goddess gives birth to a son, the God; the solstice has long been viewed by Wiccans as a time of divine births. The Christians adopted it for their use to help convert Wiccans to Christianity. Merry Christmas! I'm guessing you're Wiccan? My fiancee is "Wiccan lite" and would probably share this opinion with you. But let me remind you that just as YOUR logic would tell you that the explaination above makes sense ... MY logic tells me that it does not because (1) it's biased from a rivaling religion (2) there is no proof to back your claim in any religious documents such as the Bible. Merry Christmas!! warranto wrote on Tue, 12 December 2006 13:13 Sure it can be shown. 1. Create a searchable database. 2. Scan the entire text. 3. Paste pictures of the results of the "find" function as showing zero results when looking for the words "Christmas Tree". /sarcasm Please note that the search was less inclusive, and thus would generate ANY result (more results) related to this topic. Please also note that the NIV was used in the search and that this version is considered one of the most accurate translations.
Site lag contributed to this double post. You can delete THIS post, pls. ;-D
Quote: I'm guessing you're Wiccan? My fiancee is "Wiccan lite" and would probably share this opinion with you. But let me remind you that just as YOUR logic would tell you that the explaination above makes sense ... MY logic tells me that it does not because (1) it's biased from a rivaling religion (2) there is no proof to back your claim in any religious documents such as the Bible. Jesus was born more or less around the time that Easter occurs, it's just celebrated in December. I can't confirm if it was to help convert Wiccans, but it was done to ease the assimilation of other religions. My proof? The Church I attend, and my instructor (a Nun, by the way) have both confirmed this. Quote: Please note that the search was less inclusive, and thus would generate ANY result (more results) related to this topic. Please also note that the NIV was used in the search and that this version is considered one of the most accurate translations. I was being sarcastic....
I know, Warranto, I wasn't targetting you at all in my posts. However, I am going to have to disagree with your statement about the birthdate of Christ. Just a matter of opinion, I guess.
fl00d3d wrote on Wed, 13 December 2006 14:04 U927 wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 12:40 Interesting fact: Jesus wasn't born in December; more than likely he was born in July or August. The shepherds wouldn't have taken their sheep out to graze at night, as it would have been too cold for them. Additionaly, the reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus on December is because it coincides with the winter solstice, a Wiccan holy day called Yule (December 21). According to Wicca, this day is the day when the Goddess gives birth to a son, the God; the solstice has long been viewed by Wiccans as a time of divine births. The Christians adopted it for their use to help convert Wiccans to Christianity. Merry Christmas! I'm guessing you're Wiccan? My fiancee is "Wiccan lite" and would probably share this opinion with you. But let me remind you that just as YOUR logic would tell you that the explaination above makes sense ... MY logic tells me that it does not because (1) it's biased from a rivaling religion (2) there is no proof to back your claim in any religious documents such as the Bible. Merry Christmas!! Actually, I'm Agnostic; my brother is the Wiccan in the family, much to the dismay of my grandmother and aunt (hardcore Hispanic Catholics ). The same religious bias could apply to you as well. And the primary reason why there are no religious documents to back the claim is because the Church tried to wipe out all traces of druid religions in the Middle Ages, saying that it was devil worship. Those whom they could not convert, they killed.
fl00d3d wrote on Wed, 13 December 2006 16:21 I know, Warranto, I wasn't targetting you at all in my posts. However, I am going to have to disagree with your statement about the birthdate of Christ. Just a matter of opinion, I guess. Either way, Christmas wasn't created for the ACTUAL birth date of Christ. It was made in response to a pagan/wiccan holiday.
Whether or not Christ was born in March or December has little or no bearing on the actual celebration/meaning of Christmas (which is not simply "sharing is caring LOL warmfuzzy"), so it's a moot point. But interesting to ponder anyway.
j_ball430 wrote on Wed, 13 December 2006 18:45 fl00d3d wrote on Wed, 13 December 2006 16:21 I know, Warranto, I wasn't targetting you at all in my posts. However, I am going to have to disagree with your statement about the birthdate of Christ. Just a matter of opinion, I guess. Either way, Christmas wasn't created for the ACTUAL birth date of Christ. It was made in response to a pagan/wiccan holiday. Which goes back to my original argument that the damn tree has absolutely *NO* (extra bolding for the blind) religious value. It might have some sort of symbolism but putting up a tree in an airport won't get you into heaven, lol.
fl00d3d wrote on Thu, 14 December 2006 11:24 a tree in an airport won't get you into heaven, lol. Putting up any decorations wont get you into Heaven never mind a tree. In fact celebrations of any sort in any religion wont get you into Heaven. So why did he complain in the first place. A man as Holy as he appears?
fl00d3d wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 23:49 People will do anything for attention.
fl00d3d wrote on Thu, 14 December 2006 13:39 fl00d3d wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 23:49 People will do anything for attention. he complains that it should be equal right.....i wonder how he would be reacting if it was a big ,whatever those candle things are,being taken down?
Candles are a fire hazard, tbh
I don't see what a christmas tree has to do with Christianity and even if it was, what does it matter. There is freedom of religion in America? I thought the people (of the airport) can do what they want, as long as they don't openly spread hate towards another group.
Weirdo wrote on Mon, 18 December 2006 14:40 I don't see what a christmas tree has to do with Christianity and even if it was, what does it matter. There is freedom of religion in America? I thought the people (of the airport) can do what they want, as long as they don't openly spread hate towards another group. Because you have these annoying zealots trying to eradicate what they don't like from public places. Hence why "Christmas" plays are disappearing, along with nativity scenes and the word "Christmas" from a lot of stores and other public areas.
It's not just Christmas...It seems that 90% of the references to Thanksgiving Day are now "Turkey Day". I guess next Independance Day will be "Bottle Rocket Day" :-\
Eh, I say Thanksgiving and Turkey Day... I don't think it's anything evil. Until I see people petitioning for it to be called "Turkey Day", I'm not going to be too worried.
I live near Seattle. They put the decorations back.