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C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
And old hostnames cannot have new owners why? I get A00~4 from Kamuix, he has been with a crap load of other communities, from Black-Brigade to rencorner.. Do the host names make a difference in the quality of the community? I think not..
For once I have to agree with "teh pwnerer" (Matix). Acey, if you don't already know ... XWIS logins are a business of their own these day. Because they're used to get people on top of the list (which is important cuz most people are too lazy to scroll down a bit to find a better server) people fight over nicks. All of the nicks that are used for RenUnderground are controlled by Nightma12 and AOhost -- and the servers are COMPLETELY new setups, configurations, bots, servers, teamspeak, etc -- so no, its not the same server renamed (not by a long shot). Renegade needs stronger server communities run by credible people. There are only a few right now ... and this will make a pleasant addition. Don't be shy, check it out. And if you have a suggestion, feel free to make it. This is just as much YOUR server at it is anyone else's. Hope to see you all there!
Not all of us at the top of the list run shitty servers.
Many people just get a new account that starts with a000 something just to be on the top of the list. But at least most of the good servers are up there.
XWIS logins are a completely diffent subject that we could argue about over the span of thousands of posts. Let's not go there in this topic But some servers like RenCorner are admin'd by cheaters and don't deserve to even be listed. And people like Kamuix think it's cool to give them their a0000004 nick to put them on the top of the list. It's just a really shitty situation and it needs to end. Can anyone tell me one reason why the fuck it isn't sorted by PING or something more logical?
Crimson did mention in her interview with TK2 that there could be something in the pipeline for randomly sorting the server list... and if that happens A000 nicks go belly up, and everyone will start using server nicks that reflect the server itself, such as TK2Srv
danpaul88 wrote on Thu, 12 October 2006 13:09 Crimson did mention in her interview with TK2 that there could be something in the pipeline for randomly sorting the server list... and if that happens A000 nicks go belly up, and everyone will start using server nicks that reflect the server itself, such as TK2Srv That's a fact . Randomly is just the most honnest way: on ping wouldn't be good as obviously xwis' ping system doesn't work correctly.
danpaul88 wrote on Thu, 12 October 2006 07:09 Crimson did mention in her interview with TK2 that there could be something in the pipeline for randomly sorting the server list... and if that happens A000 nicks go belly up, and everyone will start using server nicks that reflect the server itself, such as TK2Srv THANK FUCKING GOD!! Sorry, was my caps on?
The interview will be up at renegadecommunity.com soon btw, I'm waiting until it's written out. I want to note she said that this project isn't a priority (also because she got a fairly good a000 herself).
If that were her reason for not making it a priority that would be selfish. There has to be more to it than that. But I do think that a quick switch to something like "Sort by Ping" would be pretty easy to implement. Probably one line of code I'd imagine. I don't mind people like Crimson having high level nicks and their servers showing up at the top. But when people hoard them or waive them around like they're a rare jewel ... that's straight up WRONG. And we've been seeing more and more of that. Anyway, back on topic ... the server has been doing well and seeing many new faces. We had some good games yesterday (8v8).
danpaul88 wrote on Thu, 12 October 2006 07:09 Crimson did mention in her interview with TK2 that there could be something in the pipeline for randomly sorting the server list... and if that happens A000 nicks go belly up, and everyone will start using server nicks that reflect the server itself, such as TK2Srv On the selfish admin side that sucks because we are at the top right now but on a player/ren supporter side it's awsome. HOWEVER I will believe it when I see it. I have come to realise words like "soon", "might" and "in the works" don't mean shit to some poeple. Btw sort by ping would suck. It should simply be random ... as a player you can then sort it however you like (if needed/wanted).
I think you misunderstand. There are a lot of things more important than the sorting of the server list. Like the ladder and RenGuard, just to start. There are a few things that would have to fall into place in order to make the server list sort differently. As you might imagine, it would involve a game patch, because the same players who are too lazy to re-sort the list are highly unlikely to go out and find a voluntary patch. If I can make a clean split, I'll split off this off-topic line of discussion.
Before anyone jumps on it, that "also" was there for a reason. As she said in the interview: it has a lot more involved.
Crimson wrote on Thu, 12 October 2006 21:57 I think you misunderstand. There are a lot of things more important than the sorting of the server list. Like the ladder and RenGuard, just to start. There are a few things that would have to fall into place in order to make the server list sort differently. As you might imagine, it would involve a game patch, because the same players who are too lazy to re-sort the list are highly unlikely to go out and find a voluntary patch. If I can make a clean split, I'll split off this off-topic line of discussion. they'll be casually gamers who just play it from time to time, and, if the game dosnt notify them directly of updates, they probably won't know about them at all.
Exactly. That's why it would have to be an official, mandatory patch. Fortunately with TFD released there ARE some budget dollars at EA for QA and patching.
fl00d3d wrote on Thu, 12 October 2006 21:16 If that were her reason for not making it a priority that would be selfish. There has to be more to it than that. But I do think that a quick switch to something like "Sort by Ping" would be pretty easy to implement. Probably one line of code I'd imagine. I don't mind people like Crimson having high level nicks and their servers showing up at the top. But when people hoard them or waive them around like they're a rare jewel ... that's straight up WRONG. And we've been seeing more and more of that. Anyway, back on topic ... the server has been doing well and seeing many new faces. We had some good games yesterday (8v8). Fl00d3d, if you think renegade is such an ease to decode (translate asm to C or such thing) then why not do it for yourself? It has to be said, it isn't that easy, even rather hard. And you sid it is selfish of crimson not to make it a priority, but by your anology I could state the same about you, you would be selfish because(I guess) you don't have a a000000 nick, personnally even if BlackIntel didn't have 3 a000000 names, I would still prefer renguard fixed up then fixing the listings.
I like the a000 nicks just because it tradition
Black-Cell server is populer, And there host name is BCserv. Just goes to show that some server's don't need a a000 nick.
Heh, that would be amusing. A "list by popularity" option.
maybe have it so that it is ordered by amount of people in each server...(if possible)
Do you there is a big possibility that this mandatory patch to out by the end of December?
does anyone have to he sources to renegade? surely i can't take THAT long to convert 10,000 lines of asm and i cant even find a de-complier.
Kamuix wrote on Thu, 12 October 2006 15:29 Do you there is a big possibility that this mandatory patch to out by the end of December? HIGHLY unlikely. Quote: does anyone have to he sources to renegade? EA of course.
I personally would love too see a "randomize server list". Every X minutes (I say like 2-3) it would place 10 (or how ever many servers are on one page). This would give everyone a shot at gaining users. I myself Have a supply of a000 nicks. Which I dont use as I dont need silly nicks for users as most servers do.... I bet if you took away everyones a000 nicks for 1 week. There user count would go down alot. Many of them will reply says "No it wont, Our community plays etc". Well thats just pure bullshit. Then why are you using them?
I have a very solid stack of regulars who would stay no matter what nickname I had. My high nickname just ensures a steady supply of n00bs to be annoyed by and beat the pants off of. But, while my high nickname may have attracted people to the server in the first place, there are OTHER factors that keep them coming back. Even with a high nickname, a shitty server won't keep players coming back.
There are high servers that are still empty.
EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 12 October 2006 17:19 fl00d3d wrote on Thu, 12 October 2006 21:16 If that were her reason for not making it a priority that would be selfish. There has to be more to it than that. But I do think that a quick switch to something like "Sort by Ping" would be pretty easy to implement. Probably one line of code I'd imagine. I don't mind people like Crimson having high level nicks and their servers showing up at the top. But when people hoard them or waive them around like they're a rare jewel ... that's straight up WRONG. And we've been seeing more and more of that. Anyway, back on topic ... the server has been doing well and seeing many new faces. We had some good games yesterday (8v8). Fl00d3d, if you think renegade is such an ease to decode (translate asm to C or such thing) then why not do it for yourself? It has to be said, it isn't that easy, even rather hard. And you sid it is selfish of crimson not to make it a priority, but by your anology I could state the same about you, you would be selfish because(I guess) you don't have a a000000 nick, personnally even if BlackIntel didn't have 3 a000000 names, I would still prefer renguard fixed up then fixing the listings. OK, brotha ... back off. Just chill. I wasn't trying to take a stab at anyone. First of all, I know enough about programming to know that when things are set to sort they're usually specified by a single value or variable. Under this assumption, I suggested that it is PROBABLY just an easy switch. Do you know otherwise? Because to be completely honest, even *IF* it were terribly hard for them to switch what was being sorted, that would be an absolutely terrible design flaw on their end to program such intricate code that has no flexibility in times like these. Don't try to be a self-proclaimed expert ... and God knows I sure as hell didn't. But don't treat me like an idiot either. As for the nicknames, I've had a problem with the sorting method for quite some time. If things were sort by [lets say] ping then that would be something that was more in the control of each server owner than a '$200/mo xwis login' that was hoarded by a group of people knowing it was worth something. It should have NEVER been like that. I'm not being selfish at all. I want the server owners to be able to list their servers and compete on a fair level for players, etc. It is not that way right now - there is a very unfair advantage to those that have good xwis logins whether you want to accept that or not. And to be completely honest I think the XWIS folks know that and just don't give a damn. I hope this is fixed sooner than later, but in the meantime I have a handful of nicks that we can use for our servers. EvilWhiteDragon: please don't come at me like that when I'm sincerely looking out for a general interest. I wasn't trying to start a flamewar over it.
Without the a000 nicks BlackIntel servers would be dead. As they were before. Now they get good ammounts of traffic.
So are you comparing black intel with your buddy matix, AKA the-pwnerer. Because without the a000 name hes has from Kam, rencorner wouldnt exist. and thats proven by the people that play in his server. Back on topic: A random sorting of the servers would be ideal actually. All in all fairness to all server owners. Chances are though, by the time this happends alot more people will have lost thier intrest in Renegade. But lets hope that doesnt happen, because with TFD on the shelves, theres still alot of n00bs in training:LOL Renguard should be a priority. You dont have to have a really high a00000 naick to get traffic. {WG} server is not very high up, but we get a descent amount of traffic for it being a clan server.
It's not possible to "randomize" the server list by simply changing the order in which servers are sent to the client. The client orders them after they're sent.
the17doctor wrote on Thu, 12 October 2006 18:17 maybe have it so that it is ordered by amount of people in each server...(if possible) I have always wanted that.
Tbh, most of the servers at the top are pretty decent, NoNoobs, Noobstories(even though i lag alot more in that server for some reason) and Jelly server.. I do NOT see the point in changing a system which works fine. Squabbling(sp?) over something as petty as that, well..
fl00d3d wrote on Fri, 13 October 2006 02:06 EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 12 October 2006 17:19 fl00d3d wrote on Thu, 12 October 2006 21:16 If that were her reason for not making it a priority that would be selfish. There has to be more to it than that. But I do think that a quick switch to something like "Sort by Ping" would be pretty easy to implement. Probably one line of code I'd imagine. I don't mind people like Crimson having high level nicks and their servers showing up at the top. But when people hoard them or waive them around like they're a rare jewel ... that's straight up WRONG. And we've been seeing more and more of that. Anyway, back on topic ... the server has been doing well and seeing many new faces. We had some good games yesterday (8v8). Fl00d3d, if you think renegade is such an ease to decode (translate asm to C or such thing) then why not do it for yourself? It has to be said, it isn't that easy, even rather hard. And you sid it is selfish of crimson not to make it a priority, but by your anology I could state the same about you, you would be selfish because(I guess) you don't have a a000000 nick, personnally even if BlackIntel didn't have 3 a000000 names, I would still prefer renguard fixed up then fixing the listings. OK, brotha ... back off. Just chill. I wasn't trying to take a stab at anyone. First of all, I know enough about programming to know that when things are set to sort they're usually specified by a single value or variable. Under this assumption, I suggested that it is PROBABLY just an easy switch. Do you know otherwise? Because to be completely honest, even *IF* it were terribly hard for them to switch what was being sorted, that would be an absolutely terrible design flaw on their end to program such intricate code that has no flexibility in times like these. Don't try to be a self-proclaimed expert ... and God knows I sure as hell didn't. But don't treat me like an idiot either. As for the nicknames, I've had a problem with the sorting method for quite some time. If things were sort by [lets say] ping then that would be something that was more in the control of each server owner than a '$200/mo xwis login' that was hoarded by a group of people knowing it was worth something. It should have NEVER been like that. I'm not being selfish at all. I want the server owners to be able to list their servers and compete on a fair level for players, etc. It is not that way right now - there is a very unfair advantage to those that have good xwis logins whether you want to accept that or not. And to be completely honest I think the XWIS folks know that and just don't give a damn. I hope this is fixed sooner than later, but in the meantime I have a handful of nicks that we can use for our servers. EvilWhiteDragon: please don't come at me like that when I'm sincerely looking out for a general interest. I wasn't trying to start a flamewar over it. First: sorry for my harsh reply And the sorting will probably be determined by some switch, but I think it will be rather hard to find the switch in asm code. It might be possible to get it from the LFDS, but I doubt it having a way to get the server listing. If anyone of us had the renegade source code it would probably be easy indeed, but as we don't it will be a lot harder then just switching the switch. I have to agree it is insane that people want to spend so much money on just some a000000 name. I even feel it is a pitty that there are still new servers are being setup, since there will not be an increase in players anymore. Even if half of the servers would be down there would stil be enough for all of the players I think. Besides, we've had a long time in which we didnt have a000000 nicks to start with. Though we still got quite some users there, only it was a bit harder to get it filled in the first place. Personnally I thing server should be listed based on the real player count. Or based on player to server ping instead of xwis to serverping, but that would be rather hard I expect as that would require quite some hacking in renegade. You could ofcourse make the sorting random, but thatway it would be totally impossible to get some loyal players, as they would have to search for the servers every time. I don't think anyone would like that. It would not be such a bad idea, if just the buddy list would work properly, but XTF doesn't seem to care about that. If even he cares about renegade at all. You are right in terms of it being somewhat unfair, but still I did rather see RG fixed then the listings at this point in time, as you might understand. So I think that Crimson has a point with the low priority. ghost wrote on Fri, 13 October 2006 02:27 Without the a000 nicks BlackIntel servers would be dead. As they were before. Now they get good ammounts of traffic. Yeah right thats probably why you wanted to be a mod and even an admin so badly. And at this point we are getting a reasonable amount of players that keep coming back. Btw, why are you trying to stab us in the back? I have some possible evidence of you lying and even you committing fraud, or at least trying to. And I expect that if I would dig a bit deeper that you would either have cheated in renegade or are cheating in renegade, but as I don't have enough evidence (to MY standards) I will not try to disgrace you. jschultz9 wrote on Fri, 13 October 2006 03:16 So are you comparing black intel with your buddy matix, AKA the-pwnerer. Because without the a000 name hes has from Kam, rencorner wouldnt exist. and thats proven by the people that play in his server. Back on topic: A random sorting of the servers would be ideal actually. All in all fairness to all server owners. Chances are though, by the time this happends alot more people will have lost thier intrest in Renegade. But lets hope that doesnt happen, because with TFD on the shelves, theres still alot of n00bs in training:LOL Renguard should be a priority. You dont have to have a really high a00000 naick to get traffic. {WG} server is not very high up, but we get a descent amount of traffic for it being a clan server. First: Thanks for your support And secondly, read my comment on randomizing the server listings
a000 nicks are noobfilters. Join a non a000 server if you want to have a good game.
And Xphaze, for example, isn't at the top... doesn't make it crap... Bah, they need to be randomized, somehow...
Ma1kel, do you have any reason why, or are just just stating something out of the blue? As others have stated, there are little new players joining the servers which are further down the list, so it is hard for a new server to get regulars. I think BCServ (as Alex stated) started getting people the same way. The a00 nicks were not common yet and the B was pretty high on the list I assume. I think most good servers started exactly the same way, because even without the a00 nicks they would need players, who are commonly too lazy to scroll 10 pages down just to join a random server... We used BlkIntel nicks before, and disliked the a000 nicks too (I still dislike them). However Cat998 offered us the a0000000a,b,c nicks, and we decided to give it a try. The difference in player counts shocked us, so we decided to keep using those names. Having high nicks might be an advantage, but in the same way having low nicks is a disadvantage. Randomizing the player list would be terrible I think though. You would need to find the servers you wanted to play on every time, which would be quite annoying. It is only an option when the buddies thing would work properly. Sorting on ping might be a good solution, if the ping system is fixed. Wouldn't it be possible for the client to ping to the servers directly? That would however need a change in the XWIS protocol (could probably be done backwards compatible) By player count sounds ok. Maybe it would be possible to show more servers on the screen, as that would only really solve the problem of too lazy players to scroll down, but would require quite big changes to the listings screen. Another thing to watch out for would be that it would only work for patched clients. Unless this uses the patch mechanism it would still be useful to have the "high" nicks.
Like I said: It is only an option when the buddies thing would work properly. Buddies would be the favorites
StealthEye wrote on Fri, 13 October 2006 15:53 Like I said: It is only an option when the buddies thing would work properly. Buddies would be the favorites And like I said before that
Kamuix wrote on Fri, 13 October 2006 10:46 There are too many servers! Give Nightma12 a0000004 and there will be one less. But seriously, the only thing that a000 nicks do is show the player how "hooked up" the server owners are. For example, if you have a good a000 nick then that means that either you (1) paid a lot of money for it -or- (2) you own it, or know someone that owns it and worked out a deal with them. And all of the people that own the a000 (or at least are usuing them atm) are people that are active in the community and doing things for the community. I wouldn't be opposed to the nick-race if there was some sort of regulation put on it that could be agreed upon by all of the parties involved. (ie. "You are not allowed to sell your nick" or "You must be using your nick full time on an active server otherwise it is released" or "Only 2 a000 nicks per serial" etc etc). Regardless, I think the opinion is pretty strong in favor of needing SOMETHING to be done.
I'm sure that if I really wanted to and had support, BHS could "own" all the top nicknames and hand them out based on some system. But I'm not stupid enough to believe that would actually work out without arguments. There is no way to do that without being accused of favoritism. The current system is more like capitalism.
Quote: I'm sure that if I really wanted to and had support, BHS could "own" all the top nicknames and hand them out based on some system. But I'm not stupid enough to believe that would actually work out without arguments. There is no way to do that without being accused of favoritism. The current system is more like capitalism. That is true, because if, and we know it would: n00bstories had a top a000 nick, then they would say BHS Crimson,blah blah blah. But I do agree there should be some sort of systeme with the host names. Because people pay for a nick for a month then "someone" comes along and out bids them, then the person that had the nick is shit out of luck.
he stole the a0000004 nick
It's not possible to "steal" nicknames on XWIS, because the nicks are bound to your own serial, and you are able to reset nick passwords everytime you need it.
How about... You give me all the a000 nicks and i keep them so none of you can use them?
Cat998 wrote on Fri, 13 October 2006 17:52 It's not possible to "steal" nicknames on XWIS, because the nicks are bound to your own serial, and you are able to reset nick passwords everytime you need it. We never recieved any sort of "this nickname has already been registered" messages. Then just one day, he up and takes it without even so much as telling us that it's his and saving us several days of trying to get our server back online.
I didin't know who it belonged to for awhile, until I got added by him.
It's not BHS'/XWIS place to restrict any nicks on XWIS because they're at the top of the list by default. Better ban b000 too.
I still stand by my idea. Just randomize the list. Every X minutes the server list refreshes and 10 (Or how every many servers on one page) appear, And so on... This would give everyone a fair chance in getting traffic, Which is why most of us host. I hear people complaining about there nicknames not bringing in the traffic other then the server itself. Pure bullshit, Then why are these servers using high nicks?
Acey#GW wrote on Sat, 14 October 2006 15:50 How about... You give me all the a000 nicks and i keep them so none of you can use them?
Becuase everyone would go for next nicks that appear near the top
Kam, thats why it was suggested its not sorted by nicks. Thats the whole point to the topic. If they did away with a00000 everyone would go for b0000 names. Thats why randomize it and then there isnt the big struggle for hosting nicks.
I noticed, I was just responding to the last poster, who for some reason quoted something sarcastic
I'm not being serious, as i couldn't careless really, players have their own preferences on server, why do you guys want to shove your server in their face? I only play on, Ren ladder servers, Jelly games, nonoobs snipe and Black Cell servers.
And tell me, how did you find these servers? I bet you did not scroll down the whole list to find those servers (because they are on the top). The regulars don't care about the position, the new players do. And you won't get regulars without new players...
The black cell servers are near the bottom?
Ever thought of the time before the a000 became popular? It was pretty high at that time (Black-Cell). I have said that in this before in this topic...
ghost wrote on Sat, 14 October 2006 20:36 I still stand by my idea. Just randomize the list. Every X minutes the server list refreshes and 10 (Or how every many servers on one page) appear, And so on... This would give everyone a fair chance in getting traffic, Which is why most of us host. I hear people complaining about there nicknames not bringing in the traffic other then the server itself. Pure bullshit, Then why are these servers using high nicks? So you preffer to have every day a new load of noobs and no regulars? Nofi, but I preffer it that ppl can find my server because it has a sollid place in the listings. If the buddy list would work I might agree with you, but now, no.
Make a uniq server and you will get people , Not too long ago, just for the hell of it I made a map on M06 and I put refinery lights everywhere and made it look like fire, lots of smoke and damage zones, the objective was too escape the mansion without dieing. That was one popular server LoL
EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sat, 14 October 2006 23:25 ghost wrote on Sat, 14 October 2006 20:36 I still stand by my idea. Just randomize the list. Every X minutes the server list refreshes and 10 (Or how every many servers on one page) appear, And so on... This would give everyone a fair chance in getting traffic, Which is why most of us host. I hear people complaining about there nicknames not bringing in the traffic other then the server itself. Pure bullshit, Then why are these servers using high nicks? So you preffer to have every day a new load of noobs and no regulars? Nofi, but I preffer it that ppl can find my server because it has a sollid place in the listings. If the buddy list would work I might agree with you, but now, no. I dissagree, it is true that when the server is higher listed it will be more crowded. But less to no regulars? No way. We try to keep the gamers as satisfied as possible, it's like merchandise: If something is very wanted, we try to offer it. People complain the 40pl. serv is too big, we've added a small aow serv for 20pl. Now we have added a CP-maps serv too. Like Kamuix said, "Make a uniq server and you will get people". Though I do agree the BlackIntel servers are unique.
Herr wrote on Sun, 15 October 2006 12:58 EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sat, 14 October 2006 23:25 ghost wrote on Sat, 14 October 2006 20:36 I still stand by my idea. Just randomize the list. Every X minutes the server list refreshes and 10 (Or how every many servers on one page) appear, And so on... This would give everyone a fair chance in getting traffic, Which is why most of us host. I hear people complaining about there nicknames not bringing in the traffic other then the server itself. Pure bullshit, Then why are these servers using high nicks? So you preffer to have every day a new load of noobs and no regulars? Nofi, but I preffer it that ppl can find my server because it has a sollid place in the listings. If the buddy list would work I might agree with you, but now, no. I dissagree, it is true that when the server is higher listed it will be more crowded. But less to no regulars? No way. We try to keep the gamers as satisfied as possible, it's like merchandise: If something is very wanted, we try to offer it. People complain the 40pl. serv is too big, we've added a small aow serv for 20pl. Now we have added a CP-maps serv too. Like Kamuix said, "Make a uniq server and you will get people". Though I do agree the BlackIntel servers are unique. I think you misuderstad me, if the wol list would be randomized, it would be nearly impossible to quickly find your favorite server right? So I think there will be less people tryig to play in the same server everyday, because they would have to look through 117(?) servers and get their favorite out of it. Ad its completely random... Small chance that a lot of ppl would do that.
Couldn't you just add the server name to your buddy list and hit Join? Or has that stopped working since XWIS took over? (I haven't checked myself).
havoc9826 wrote on Sun, 15 October 2006 20:48 Couldn't you just add the server name to your buddy list and hit Join? Or has that stopped working since XWIS took over? (I haven't checked myself). As said above, it stopped working whe XWIS took over yes.
Yes, that stopped working, and it dead easy to fix (on the XWIS side). It is the default password sent to the channel which XWIS thinks is bad. It should ignore it on non passworded channels. Joining passworded channels through buddies probably works, but that's of much less use... That's why you get the "invalid password" message when trying to join though buddies.
StealthEye wrote on Sun, 15 October 2006 18:08 Yes, that stopped working, and it dead easy to fix (on the XWIS side). It is the default password sent to the channel which XWIS thinks is bad. It should ignore it on non passworded channels. Joining passworded channels through buddies probably works, but that's of much less use... That's why you get the "invalid password" message when trying to join though buddies. FYI, yes the join buddy still works for passworded servers only. It would just be better if you could select servers to be added to a favorites list that would appear at the top above any other servers - similar systems are used for lots of games, but really if your server is getting no traffic it is down to more than just the server nick.
At the end of the day it will go one of two ways, there aren't anywhere near enough people who play the game to fill all the servers that are hosted, not even a 5th of them. So one of the following will ensue: You get 5 times as many servers that are a tenth full, still no real benefit to anyone. The servers that are full now, keep their regulars and the rest just look for a busy server. Again, randomizing the list is of no benefit. Their are too many servers for such a small fan base, this is the major problem, randomizing will not change that, it will either spread players out and there are no full servers, or the popular servers stay popular and it takes people a little longer to find them. The only ways to fix the problem are, either get more players, like at least 4 times the amount we have now, which is never gonna happen. Or we need far fewer servers, again, this is unlikely. All randomizing will do is split the player base up even more as far as I can see. Also, before anyone starts, no I'm not saying this because we have a top login name. I have no problems helping out other servers and communities, you can ask three other communities at the top of the list who lends them a name. I don't ask for money, I never did, they where loaned out indefinatly as a favour to people I know who run good servers. I will never ask for them back unles the favour was abused in any way. I have been offered silly amounts of money in the past for login names, I have said no on each and every single time. My viewpoint is based on a general view, both as a server owner and a fan of the game in general. Spliting up the player base helps nobody.
Quote: Also, before anyone starts, no I'm not saying this because we have a top login name. I have no problems helping out other servers and communities, you can ask three other communities at the top of the list who lends them a name. I don't ask for money, I never did, they where loaned out indefinatly as a favour to people I know who run good servers. I will never ask for them back unles the favour was abused in any way. I have been offered silly amounts of money in the past for login names, I have said no on each and every single time. Who is to decide who runs a good server? Ive seen alot of servers that dont have an a0000 name that are good servers. lag free, descent players. but I dont see you offering them an a000 name. Its a prefernece and a bargain chip. Correct me if Im wrong, but didnt you trade a login name to someone for thier private bot once thier private bot is finished. I also have logs of the person with the bot telling me so, so lying is useless.
Do you know what a favour is, jschultz? You do one for someone, they tend to be inclined to do a favour back. Bit different to selling something.
Quote: FYI, yes the join buddy still works for passworded servers only. Thanks for clearing that up Quote: It would just be better if you could select servers to be added to a favorites list that would appear at the top above any other servers - similar systems are used for lots of games, but really if your server is getting no traffic it is down to more than just the server nick. Yes, that way would be slightly better than buddies, but buddies would work too imo. The main problem of a lower nick is that there will be little players joining when it's empty, and therefore little players will become regulars. The server will fill up if you sit in for a couple of minutes, but you have to be online and playing in your own server to get it running a little. When you have some regulars willing to join and wait for other players then it will fill up easily. If we would move down again we would be getting more players than before. I know this because when I start my test server (BlkIntel5, so not at the top) it fills up much quicker than before we had the a0000 nicks. Probably due to "BlackIntel" in the server name. Quote: Their are too many servers for such a small fan base, this is the major problem, randomizing will not change that, it will either spread players out and there are no full servers, or the popular servers stay popular and it takes people a little longer to find them. Regulars would manually sort by name again, because that's easier to look for their server, which basically makes the randomizing thing useless, lol I agree that randomizing is solely annoying and will not help solving this issue much. Quote: The only ways to fix the problem are, either get more players, like at least 4 times the amount we have now, which is never gonna happen. Or we need far fewer servers, again, this is unlikely. More players would be nice, but highly unlikely indeed Fewer servers is only possible by limiting them on the XWIS side, but that's not a really nice solution as some people will still want to run a 1p test server to test maps or start a 2 player server to play with their friends or something... You could ofcourse limit it only for dedicated servers, but then: Quote: Who is to decide who runs a good server? Currently, it's obviously the owner of the nick deciding that...
I have to agree that there are quite simply TOO MANY SERVERS for the number of players we have and if people who run servers that are empty or less than 25% full all day long would just give up the ghost and join forces with an existing server community that has traffic, we'd all be better off and this wouldn't be as much of an issue. Jelly might be right with the end result of randomizing.
It's strange that gamespy doesn't have these problems. What's the exact ranking system on there?
Crimson wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 04:13 if people who run servers that are empty or less than 25% full all day long would just give up the ghost and join forces with an existing server community that has traffic, we'd all be better off and this wouldn't be as much of an issue. perhaps I have a skewed perspective because of the type of game I play, but I have ALWAYS preffered smaller less populated servers run by clans - for me this means that when there is someone in game it will most likely be a player that isn't a complete retard - there are several decent clan servers out there and whenever I have been involved in hosting one I have never had the desire to see it full of noobs. I cannot see the fun of joining a 40 player noobstories server (used for example only) when generally speaking most of the people in there are running around shooting shotguns from half way accross the map and the number of players means that any stealth tactics/start game tactics and quite often skill are nullified by sheer numbers and starting credits. I will regularly scan the list for any servers with only one player in for a 1v1 match and have had some of the mot challenging public games/met some good people this way - to suggest that people should drop their servers simply because their server is not always populated is, imo, ridiculous. Argue about the nicks all you want and fight over server population, just bear in mind that plenty of people purposely avoid large/full servers.
[PA Pirate wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 12:29] Crimson wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 04:13 if people who run servers that are empty or less than 25% full all day long would just give up the ghost and join forces with an existing server community that has traffic, we'd all be better off and this wouldn't be as much of an issue. perhaps I have a skewed perspective because of the type of game I play, but I have ALWAYS preffered smaller less populated servers run by clans - for me this means that when there is someone in game it will most likely be a player that isn't a complete retard - there are several decent clan servers out there and whenever I have been involved in hosting one I have never had the desire to see it full of noobs. I cannot see the fun of joining a 40 player noobstories server (used for example only) when generally speaking most of the people in there are running around shooting shotguns from half way accross the map and the number of players means that any stealth tactics/start game tactics and quite often skill are nullified by sheer numbers and starting credits. I will regularly scan the list for any servers with only one player in for a 1v1 match and have had some of the mot challenging public games/met some good people this way - to suggest that people should drop their servers simply because their server is not always populated is, imo, ridiculous. Argue about the nicks all you want and fight over server population, just bear in mind that plenty of people purposely avoid large/full servers. That's why we at BlackIntel have an 12 player server too (and for the moment a 10player, but that will change), just to be able to sneak and do nice tactics as destroying the ob in field with just 1 hotty. The first server after us having 12 players is some a00gzon2 or something. Anyway big end down the list.
Yes, but do we need 60 small empty servers?
Crimson wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 13:08 Yes, but do we need 60 small empty servers? At the other hand, these servers would possibly be full if they were on the top page.
jschultz9 wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 01:39 Quote: Also, before anyone starts, no I'm not saying this because we have a top login name. I have no problems helping out other servers and communities, you can ask three other communities at the top of the list who lends them a name. I don't ask for money, I never did, they where loaned out indefinatly as a favour to people I know who run good servers. I will never ask for them back unles the favour was abused in any way. I have been offered silly amounts of money in the past for login names, I have said no on each and every single time. Who is to decide who runs a good server? Ive seen alot of servers that dont have an a0000 name that are good servers. lag free, descent players. but I dont see you offering them an a000 name. Its a prefernece and a bargain chip. Correct me if Im wrong, but didnt you trade a login name to someone for thier private bot once thier private bot is finished. I also have logs of the person with the bot telling me so, so lying is useless. FIrst off, don't get bitter because I said no to your offer of $100 a mointh for a login name. That proves one point already, that I do have the best intentions for the game at heart, giving you a good login name would be like rewarding a serial killer with early parol and then giving him a winning lottery ticket. I don't know who these logs are with that you claim to have, if you care to tell me who I can reply to them. I have 3 login names loaned out indefinatly. Iccy at non00bs has one, the guy helped us out alot when we where first starting out as a server and community, so I returend the favor. Crimson offered me money for a login, I said no we don't want money for them, so she offered me a few app's in return. I was always going to let her have a login name when she asked, I just thought she may be able to help us out too, also at the time we had just started using the n00bstories IRC server, we had just donated also to BHS at the time, so we had no problems in giving the login to Crimson. As a whole, Crimson, n00bstories and BHS benefited from our donation and login name more than the Jelly server did. As I say though, it's all done as a gesture of good will and such. I did ask about the bot she uses on n00bstories, she did say it was far from ready and no where near ready for public release, I didn't loan the name to Crimson on the proviso that she gave us the bot. I think you mis-interpreted what was said to you there buddy. Hex at n00bless offered me help with wolproxy and gave me the prog when we where having trouble with the westwood decline pages, he helped us out so I helped him out. Nightma12 offered me some stuff in return in a PM on my forums, to be honest I had no interest as we hae enough names loaned out now, so I never bothered to reply to it. Also, I never said servers outside the top of the list wern't good servers, I said that all the servers I loaned names to where good servers, big difference there chum. If I was heel bent on holding back the competition so to speak, why would I loan names to two of the biggest and most popular servers in non00bs and n00bstories ?
Goztow wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 07:19 Crimson wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 13:08 Yes, but do we need 60 small empty servers? At the other hand, these servers would possibly be full if they were on the top page. And the servers not on the top page wouldn't be full, the end result is still the same, isn't it? You still have the same numberof servers that are empty, so where exactly is the improvement? You still have empty servers, some of the servers that are at the bottom now may still end up at the bottom through sheer bad luck, and may still not get any traffic. As I say, the lack of players, and the mass of servers are the problem. People just keep making new servers and then moan when its never used. Here's how I see it. If I was baker, and I was walking down a street with 15 bakeries on it, you know what I would think, this is a bad place to open a bakery.
I'd actually open up a brewery there, all that bread would make people tirsty. However, it would be in the same street.
Crimson wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 06:08 Yes, but do we need 60 small empty servers? Do we NEED them? no Do they do any harm to anyone? no I don't see why people in charge of the succesful servers would have an issue with people hosting more servers, empty or not - it just gives people more choice. Many clans/communities want a server up that they can use for private matches/events as well as public games so although a server may be empty does not mean it is not fulfilling it's purpose. Quote: That proves one point already, that I do have the best intentions for the game at heart, giving you a good login name would be like rewarding a serial killer with early parol and then giving him a winning lottery ticket. love the analogy.
Goztow wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 11:23 It's strange that gamespy doesn't have these problems. What's the exact ranking system on there? Its up to the player, he can set it so the lowest ping server is first or he can set it so the servers are listed in order of how many players are in there. Plus you can mark servers, so your favourite servers are highlighted. Don't forget playerspy..an actualy working version of "buddies" This is why GSA>WOL.. it actually works...
PAPirate wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 08:46 Crimson wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 06:08 Yes, but do we need 60 small empty servers? Do we NEED them? no Do they do any harm to anyone? no I don't see why people in charge of the succesful servers would have an issue with people hosting more servers, empty or not - it just gives people more choice. Many clans/communities want a server up that they can use for private matches/events as well as public games so although a server may be empty does not mean it is not fulfilling it's purpose. This is starting to look like a circular argument.
Randomizing will not fix the problem of empty servers. A 300% increase in players, or a massive reduction in the amout of servers will do that. Dress it up how you want to, blame a00 nicks, blame EA for their lack of support. Fact is, regardless of cause, there aren't enough players to go around, no amount of randomizing will change that. I just don't see how randomizing the player list helps to fill up all the empty servers. You may move the traffic around slightly, but the end result is no different.
True, if XWIS (WOL) were run like GameSpy Arcade, then we wouldn't even be arguing here. Point proven right there.
Acey#GW wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 14:15 Goztow wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 11:23 It's strange that gamespy doesn't have these problems. What's the exact ranking system on there? Its up to the player, he can set it so the lowest ping server is first or he can set it so the servers are listed in order of how many players are in there. Plus you can mark servers, so your favourite servers are highlighted. Don't forget playerspy..an actualy working version of "buddies" This is why GSA>WOL.. it actually works... how does the buddy system not work? WOL even has /page and /join, unlike gayspy. Also, I dont think people know this, but its ALREADY possible to sort the server list in WOL, just hit the stuff at the top, i know for a fact you can for latency, I think you can for names, and im not even sure what else...
trooprm02 wrote on Tue, 17 October 2006 16:54 Acey#GW wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 14:15 Goztow wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 11:23 It's strange that gamespy doesn't have these problems. What's the exact ranking system on there? Its up to the player, he can set it so the lowest ping server is first or he can set it so the servers are listed in order of how many players are in there. Plus you can mark servers, so your favourite servers are highlighted. Don't forget playerspy..an actualy working version of "buddies" This is why GSA>WOL.. it actually works... how does the buddy system not work? WOL even has /page and /join, unlike gayspy. Also, I dont think people know this, but its ALREADY possible to sort the server list in WOL, just hit the stuff at the top, i know for a fact you can for latency, I think you can for names, and im not even sure what else... Well thats funny, if the buddy system actually worked no one would have brought it up. Its riddled with errors, i can only use it to find out where my buddies are, then join throught advanced game listings. Plus the fact GSA is never down for maintenance....or never down for days without an explanation.
Acey#GW wrote on Tue, 17 October 2006 12:08 Plus the fact GSA is never down for maintenance....or never down for days without an explanation. Amen to that! ^^ And, yes, you can sort WOL listings but it is a matter of what comes up as "default".
Acey#GW wrote on Tue, 17 October 2006 17:08 Well thats funny, if the buddy system actually worked no one would have brought it up. Its riddled with errors, i can only use it to find out where my buddies are, then join throught advanced game listings. Plus the fact GSA is never down for maintenance....or never down for days without an explanation. The Buddy list always worked when WOL was owned by Westwood, it has never worked with XWIS, along with the invite, they don't work properly either. And GSA has been going for how long? Just think... XWIS has only been up, and taken over from WWS/WOL for about 6-12 months, there are bound to be downtimes. GSA probaly has more servers than XWIS, so they can send the "payload" of players to those while they maintain their other servers.
Merovingian wrote on Tue, 17 October 2006 19:50 Acey#GW wrote on Tue, 17 October 2006 17:08 Well thats funny, if the buddy system actually worked no one would have brought it up. Its riddled with errors, i can only use it to find out where my buddies are, then join throught advanced game listings. Plus the fact GSA is never down for maintenance....or never down for days without an explanation. The Buddy list always worked when WOL was owned by Westwood, it has never worked with XWIS, along with the invite, they don't work properly either. And GSA has been going for how long? Just think... XWIS has only been up, and taken over from WWS/WOL for about 6-12 months, there are bound to be downtimes. GSA probaly has more servers than XWIS, so they can send the "payload" of players to those while they maintain their other servers. That does not matter, i bet the buddylist etc works on red alert 2 and YR. They deliver a piss poor service. We know we are at the bottom of the pile when it comes to priority. The XWIS thing is so very basic. In the whole time it has been running, you would expect improvements to be made, and i have seen no evidence of any improvement. Besides, i find the GSA player name alot more flexible.
Look, the first server http://xwis.net/rg/online are the most joined server and the other ones has mostly 0 players. FM has now already Z000 nicks
/me wakes up with a big smile on his face. "What's up, Crimson?"
y is there a passworded server on an a00 nick? is there a need for that... -.- it pushes all the other servers down =/ lol
It makes them look cool
I think it's more likely they simply don't care.
Goztow wrote on Mon, 16 October 2006 11:37 I'd actually open up a brewery there, all that bread would make people tirsty. However, it would be in the same street. So, to continue with my analogy for a second, that would be like hosting a COD2 server on the Renegade listings. Anyway, I'm still wondering why people think the random server list is going to help reduce the number of empty servers. Judging from the lack of arguement, we've established that the best we can hope for is a small shift in traffic. End result, there will still be lots of empty servers, there will be no matter what you do with the server listings, simple fact is there's too few players to fill them. So is the effort really worth putting in when the end result is still the same? Especially when you look at how many projects Crimson and BHS are trying to get off the ground.