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I hear many people complain about the ramjet rifle power vs. helicopters, and that they are n00b weapons that should damage the helicopters like they do. What these people don't realize is is that the ramjet rifle supposedly shoots its projectiles at a mile per second muzzle velocity. Do you think a dinky, poorly armor helicopter is going to like the kinentic energy of a mile per second bullet? No.
Too bad renegade is not based on realism, k? A rocket launcher would tear up a helicopter yet it does LESS damage per shot. As well as any other unit is unrealistic and so is the damage so can you use an argument that doesn't go with the realism? How about going with fairness, which is where the argument for sniping copters falls short, sadly.
Considering the damage done by the helicopter chaingun, it seems perfectly fair to me.
It has unlimited range, kills a copter in 5 hits (what's that? 6 seconds?) and you're shooting a vehicle, which is considerably easier to hit. Compare that to the copter which has to hit a small target in seconds, and if it's two n00bjets, you can cut the time to even less. Or if you have 5 of them, as often the case usually is, since it requires no skill for some nameless guy to shoot a copter. (this is why they keep buying n00bjets, since it's so easy to get points) Unfortunately, any person in a copter, if sucks too much can't even get close to a person who sucks in a n00bjet since it takes far more skill to pilot a copter. I'm not even going to add any more ideas to people who buy n00bjets the entire game, since they'll abuse it. oh, and the copter range is also limited. The apache's being so pathetically poor PPS - even if it miraculously was fair, which it isn't - but for the sake of argument - why would it be the ramjet that gets to do the damage? I can hardly play a game of field or city flying or walls where some guy buys a havoc to shoot at artys or MRLS or copters.
Considering Nod has artillery which can distract Havocs or easily kill them at long ranges, I think that any Apache driver who doesn't support, but goes commando, should get blown out of the air. If the U.S. had initially bombed Iraq with B-52 and a lack of jamming at the beginning of our wars with them, then the U.S. Army would be sitting in their bases right now, and Sadam Hussein would be in one of his 394 palaces, as the casualty rate for the bomber crews would have been at least 80% and the public opinion of the war would drop down the roof. But we removed the air defense with jamming, F-117's and cruise missile, so when our susceptible aircraft arrived, they would blow the crud out of Iraq while having a casualty rate of 0%.
Sniper_De7 wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 21:26 PPS - even if it miraculously was fair, which it isn't - but for the sake of argument - why would it be the ramjet that gets to do the damage? I can hardly play a game of field or city flying or walls where some guy buys a havoc to shoot at artys or MRLS or copters. High caliber-weaponry destroys lightly armored vehicles. Ramjets are still useless versus real tanks such as the medium tank or flame tank.
nukchebi0 wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 20:33 Considering Nod has artillery which can distract Havocs or easily kill them at long ranges, I think that any Apache driver who doesn't support, but goes commando, should get blown out of the air. If the U.S. had initially bombed Iraq with B-52 and a lack of jamming at the beginning of our wars with them, then the U.S. Army would be sitting in their bases right now, and Sadam Hussein would be in one of his 394 palaces, as the casualty rate for the bomber crews would have been at least 80% and the public opinion of the war would drop down the roof. But we removed the air defense with jamming, F-117's and cruise missile, so when our susceptible aircraft arrived, they would blow the crud out of Iraq while having a casualty rate of 0%. Uh.... thanks for that information? Artilleries can easily kill havocs at long range? are you serious? Either the havoc is entirely stupid all-together or... well the havoc is entirely too stupid. (Which goes with my point that it's normally someone who sucks buying n00bjets) I also fail to see how going out into the middle of city flying where my teammates are and getting shot by like 5 n00bjets constitutes as "going commnado" and it still doesn't address the fact that ramjets do insane damage. I'd have no problem if there was some kind of limit on the number of n00bjets you could buy. I can honestly handle probably 2-3 pretty easily on a map say city fly. But when you've got like a band of 5 n00bjets on the bridge and you die in less than 2 seconds, that it isn't fair at all. And still just because it's light armoured doesn't mean it should do insane amount of damage, i don't care what the fuck it would do in a realistic event, if it's going to do damage at least make it reasonable, not 5 hits and a copter is dead or i believe it's 7 and an arty is. A rocket soldier should be more effective at killing light armoured vehicles no matter what, as would railguns/pics, so yeah, why would the ramjet do the most damage out of all of these
Sniper_De7 wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 18:42 nukchebi0 wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 20:33 Considering Nod has artillery which can distract Havocs or easily kill them at long ranges, I think that any Apache driver who doesn't support, but goes commando, should get blown out of the air. If the U.S. had initially bombed Iraq with B-52 and a lack of jamming at the beginning of our wars with them, then the U.S. Army would be sitting in their bases right now, and Sadam Hussein would be in one of his 394 palaces, as the casualty rate for the bomber crews would have been at least 80% and the public opinion of the war would drop down the roof. But we removed the air defense with jamming, F-117's and cruise missile, so when our susceptible aircraft arrived, they would blow the crud out of Iraq while having a casualty rate of 0%. Uh.... thanks for that information? Artilleries can easily kill havocs at long range? are you serious? Either the havoc is entirely stupid all-together or... well the havoc is entirely too stupid. (Which goes with my point that it's normally someone who sucks buying n00bjets) I also fail to see how going out into the middle of city flying where my teammates are and getting shot by like 5 n00bjets constitutes as "going commnado" and it still doesn't address the fact that ramjets do insane damage. I'd have no problem if there was some kind of limit on the number of n00bjets you could buy. I can honestly handle probably 2-3 pretty easily on a map say city fly. But when you've got like a band of 5 n00bjets on the bridge and you die in less than 2 seconds, that it isn't fair at all. And still just because it's light armoured doesn't mean it should do insane amount of damage, i don't care what the fuck it would do in a realistic event, if it's going to do damage at least make it reasonable, not 5 hits and a copter is dead or i believe it's 7 and an arty is. A rocket soldier should be more effective at killing light armoured vehicles no matter what, as would railguns/pics, so yeah, why would the ramjet do the most damage out of all of these 1. I said distract. If the Havoc is trying to gun a copter down, an artillery can easily massacre them. 2. If they are on the bridge then you can buy a flamer and run them over. 3. Rocket soldiers do more damage to heavily armoured vehicles than Havocs, and the PIC/Railgun does too. However the ramjet is a instant hit owning to the muzzle velocity of a mile per second, while the rocket can't hit anything but heavily armored vehicles without much trouble. Since the PIC/Railgun does the same amount of damage to infantry, but still annoys/destroys vehicles at long ranges, then it really is a better buy than the ramjet, but people can buy what they choose. Personally, I buy the sniper rifle to snipe, since I will be getting headshots, the ramjet to defend a base, since engineers die with a body shot, and a PIC/Railgun to drive away vehicles. I never buy the Volt-Auto Rifle, due to its range (what range?).
nukchebi0 wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 21:07 Sniper_De7 wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 18:42 nukchebi0 wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 20:33 Considering Nod has artillery which can distract Havocs or easily kill them at long ranges, I think that any Apache driver who doesn't support, but goes commando, should get blown out of the air. If the U.S. had initially bombed Iraq with B-52 and a lack of jamming at the beginning of our wars with them, then the U.S. Army would be sitting in their bases right now, and Sadam Hussein would be in one of his 394 palaces, as the casualty rate for the bomber crews would have been at least 80% and the public opinion of the war would drop down the roof. But we removed the air defense with jamming, F-117's and cruise missile, so when our susceptible aircraft arrived, they would blow the crud out of Iraq while having a casualty rate of 0%. Uh.... thanks for that information? Artilleries can easily kill havocs at long range? are you serious? Either the havoc is entirely stupid all-together or... well the havoc is entirely too stupid. (Which goes with my point that it's normally someone who sucks buying n00bjets) I also fail to see how going out into the middle of city flying where my teammates are and getting shot by like 5 n00bjets constitutes as "going commnado" and it still doesn't address the fact that ramjets do insane damage. I'd have no problem if there was some kind of limit on the number of n00bjets you could buy. I can honestly handle probably 2-3 pretty easily on a map say city fly. But when you've got like a band of 5 n00bjets on the bridge and you die in less than 2 seconds, that it isn't fair at all. And still just because it's light armoured doesn't mean it should do insane amount of damage, i don't care what the fuck it would do in a realistic event, if it's going to do damage at least make it reasonable, not 5 hits and a copter is dead or i believe it's 7 and an arty is. A rocket soldier should be more effective at killing light armoured vehicles no matter what, as would railguns/pics, so yeah, why would the ramjet do the most damage out of all of these 1. I said distract. If the Havoc is trying to gun a copter down, an artillery can easily massacre them. 2. If they are on the bridge then you can buy a flamer and run them over. 3. Rocket soldiers do more damage to heavily armoured vehicles than Havocs, and the PIC/Railgun does too. However the ramjet is a instant hit owning to the muzzle velocity of a mile per second, while the rocket can't hit anything but heavily armored vehicles without much trouble. Since the PIC/Railgun does the same amount of damage to infantry, but still annoys/destroys vehicles at long ranges, then it really is a better buy than the ramjet, but people can buy what they choose. Personally, I buy the sniper rifle to snipe, since I will be getting headshots, the ramjet to defend a base, since engineers die with a body shot, and a PIC/Railgun to drive away vehicles. I never buy the Volt-Auto Rifle, due to its range (what range?). and no, an artillery can't "massacre" an infantry because of many things. 1. IT doesn't even hit where you tell you it to hit often times 2. the artillery shells travel so slow that you can often times dodge them if you see them. 3. A havoc should be able to get off about 7 shots before an artillery could kill him. 4. You can easily run away even if you did have low health. Since they're so slow this all doesn't tell me the exact principle of the fairness of copters being able to get killed in 5 hits, 5 hits takes around 6 seconds and probably 3-4 if you had two 1000 dollar characters. how in god's name can you call that fair? A 900 dollar unit shouldn't be able to be killed with a gun that already shoots instantly and capacity to shoot 4 rounds, not to mention its UNLIMITED range. I'd bet you if it took an ounce of skill for snipers to shoot copters (say the bullet didn't travel instantly) They'd probably give up entirely and probably quit city flying. Because I've seen it plenty of times before where people flat out QUIT after losing the barracks even after I kill their n00bjets multiple times. Which makes me believe that the only units they can do good in is a n00bjet, which means that it is overpowered and too easy to use. Like I said, even on field people use snipers to kill artilleries/mrls. They don't even TRY to use a tank. Often times it's usually their first unit they buy and even if you kill them they'll still come back again and again probably not once buying a med tank - why? because it takes no skill what-so-ever to shoot light armoured vehicles with a gun that does massive damage and has unlimited range
Sniper_De7 wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 22:03 nukchebi0 wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 21:07 Sniper_De7 wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 18:42 nukchebi0 wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 20:33 Considering Nod has artillery which can distract Havocs or easily kill them at long ranges, I think that any Apache driver who doesn't support, but goes commando, should get blown out of the air. If the U.S. had initially bombed Iraq with B-52 and a lack of jamming at the beginning of our wars with them, then the U.S. Army would be sitting in their bases right now, and Sadam Hussein would be in one of his 394 palaces, as the casualty rate for the bomber crews would have been at least 80% and the public opinion of the war would drop down the roof. But we removed the air defense with jamming, F-117's and cruise missile, so when our susceptible aircraft arrived, they would blow the crud out of Iraq while having a casualty rate of 0%. Uh.... thanks for that information? Artilleries can easily kill havocs at long range? are you serious? Either the havoc is entirely stupid all-together or... well the havoc is entirely too stupid. (Which goes with my point that it's normally someone who sucks buying n00bjets) I also fail to see how going out into the middle of city flying where my teammates are and getting shot by like 5 n00bjets constitutes as "going commnado" and it still doesn't address the fact that ramjets do insane damage. I'd have no problem if there was some kind of limit on the number of n00bjets you could buy. I can honestly handle probably 2-3 pretty easily on a map say city fly. But when you've got like a band of 5 n00bjets on the bridge and you die in less than 2 seconds, that it isn't fair at all. And still just because it's light armoured doesn't mean it should do insane amount of damage, i don't care what the fuck it would do in a realistic event, if it's going to do damage at least make it reasonable, not 5 hits and a copter is dead or i believe it's 7 and an arty is. A rocket soldier should be more effective at killing light armoured vehicles no matter what, as would railguns/pics, so yeah, why would the ramjet do the most damage out of all of these 1. I said distract. If the Havoc is trying to gun a copter down, an artillery can easily massacre them. 2. If they are on the bridge then you can buy a flamer and run them over. 3. Rocket soldiers do more damage to heavily armoured vehicles than Havocs, and the PIC/Railgun does too. However the ramjet is a instant hit owning to the muzzle velocity of a mile per second, while the rocket can't hit anything but heavily armored vehicles without much trouble. Since the PIC/Railgun does the same amount of damage to infantry, but still annoys/destroys vehicles at long ranges, then it really is a better buy than the ramjet, but people can buy what they choose. Personally, I buy the sniper rifle to snipe, since I will be getting headshots, the ramjet to defend a base, since engineers die with a body shot, and a PIC/Railgun to drive away vehicles. I never buy the Volt-Auto Rifle, due to its range (what range?). and no, an artillery can't "massacre" an infantry because of many things. 1. IT doesn't even hit where you tell you it to hit often times 2. the artillery shells travel so slow that you can often times dodge them if you see them. 3. A havoc should be able to get off about 7 shots before an artillery could kill him. 4. You can easily run away even if you did have low health. Since they're so slow this all doesn't tell me the exact principle of the fairness of copters being able to get killed in 5 hits, 5 hits takes around 6 seconds and probably 3-4 if you had two 1000 dollar characters. how in god's name can you call that fair? A 900 dollar unit shouldn't be able to be killed with a gun that already shoots instantly and capacity to shoot 4 rounds, not to mention its UNLIMITED range. I'd bet you if it took an ounce of skill for snipers to shoot copters (say the bullet didn't travel instantly) They'd probably give up entirely and probably quit city flying. Because I've seen it plenty of times before where people flat out QUIT after losing the barracks even after I kill their n00bjets multiple times. Which makes me believe that the only units they can do good in is a n00bjet, which means that it is overpowered and too easy to use. Like I said, even on field people use snipers to kill artilleries/mrls. They don't even TRY to use a tank. Often times it's usually their first unit they buy and even if you kill them they'll still come back again and again probably not once buying a med tank - why? because it takes no skill what-so-ever to shoot light armoured vehicles with a gun that does massive damage and has unlimited range If copters are that susceptible to ground fire (they get pawned by any machine gun), wouldn't that be a minor hint that they are a waste of money, which should be spend on ramjet infantry to eliminate theirs. Also, they standard sniper rifle is almost as quick of a destruction for helicopters. Why don't you complain concerning that?
And you're assuming artilleries can hit the Havoc despite the fact that artilleries are not the most accurate vehicle, especially at very long ranges. And a Ramjet can take out an artillery easily and still have enough ammo left over for aircraft! Besides, a Ramjet character can stay all the way in their base and hit aircraft coming from the opposite base without any threat from artillery.
Usually people who say ramjets are fair are the people who either: 1. Use them often 2. Suck at using them Just like in Generals, people who use Pathfinder find him balanced(and he is NOT). I think they should at least be modified to reload after each shot, just like when you pick up one.
Quote: If copters are that susceptible to ground fire (they get pawned by any machine gun), wouldn't that be a minor hint that they are a waste of money, which should be spend on ramjet infantry to eliminate theirs. Also, they standard sniper rifle is almost as quick of a destruction for helicopters. Why don't you complain concerning that? Copters aren't susceptible to ground fire. The only real thing that usually kills copters are two things... copters and ramjets and no the 500 sniper is not almost as quick, it takes twice more shots. It has to reload twice to kill one. I'm all for an infantry to do damage to a copter but at least make it so that only skilled people can use it effectively to kill skilled copters. Although I have to agree that 500 snipers probably shouldn't be able to do any damage to light armoured vehicles. If I had to try out a more even way I'd say the ramjets do damage what 500 snipers do and the 500 snipers little damage to light armoured vehicles. That way there's some incentive to buy 1000 dollar snipers but the main use of the sniper rifle is unchanged (infantry damage is the same) Although I won't even get started on that, since the minute the enemies hand/barracks goes down expect 50 n00bjets shooting base infantry. (again, more proof for why a n00b would use the character)
Sniper_De7 wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 14:15 Quote: If copters are that susceptible to ground fire (they get pawned by any machine gun), wouldn't that be a minor hint that they are a waste of money, which should be spend on ramjet infantry to eliminate theirs. Also, they standard sniper rifle is almost as quick of a destruction for helicopters. Why don't you complain concerning that? Copters aren't susceptible to ground fire. The only real thing that usually kills copters are two things... copters and ramjets and no the 500 sniper is not almost as quick, it takes twice more shots. It has to reload twice to kill one. I'm all for an infantry to do damage to a copter but at least make it so that only skilled people can use it effectively to kill skilled copters. Although I have to agree that 500 snipers probably shouldn't be able to do any damage to light armoured vehicles. If I had to try out a more even way I'd say the ramjets do damage what 500 snipers do and the 500 snipers little damage to light armoured vehicles. That way there's some incentive to buy 1000 dollar snipers but the main use of the sniper rifle is unchanged (infantry damage is the same) Although I won't even get started on that, since the minute the enemies hand/barracks goes down expect 50 n00bjets shooting base infantry. (again, more proof for why a n00b would use the character) Then buy armored tanks and crush the n00bjets before eliminating their barracks/HON.
SpyGuy246 wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 22:43 And you're assuming artilleries can hit the Havoc despite the fact that artilleries are not the most accurate vehicle, especially at very long ranges. And a Ramjet can take out an artillery easily and still have enough ammo left over for aircraft! Besides, a Ramjet character can stay all the way in their base and hit aircraft coming from the opposite base without any threat from artillery. 1. A Havoc can't eliminate both at once. 2. On what maps?
1. then it will destroy them one at a time by hiding after almost every shot. Infantry can hide, vehicles and planes can't 2. Walls_flying
A "good" Havoc can eliminate both of them within a short amount of time since the Ramjet does disproportionate damage to both the artillery and the aircraft. I have been under Ramjet fire in both vehicles and I know how fast they go down. And you can only return fire if you can determine from where the Havoc is shooting, which can be difficult when your attention is directed towards attacking the enemy base or another vehicle. Here I am thinking mainly of Walls_Flying, though City_Flying is the almost the same way. On top of a building in Walls, a Havoc has a great view of the sky. And in the alcove by the highway in City, a Havoc has the same advantage with considerable cover from air attack.
The way to fights havoc is with a sniper. It's simple as that. If your enemy has a sniper sniping heli's, then go snipe the sniper. If he's dead, he can't snipe your heli, can he? The only unfair point of ramjets is the ridiculous amount of points they make. Other than that, it balances the game perfectly. It's the only serious thread against heli's who are overpowered alltogether. Also they cost 1000, so it's not as if you can waste so many of them. They also suck against heavy or medium armored tanks, making them useless during a rush. Therefor, 1 ramjet can be a necessity, 4 ramjets will make you simply loose the game if the enemy team is organised. Some people don't understand that if there are too many ramjets, you could just use a unit that ain't harmed by it. As I said: the only unfair part is the amount of points they gather from shooting tanks.
Thread. Threat.
Unfortunately, the base usually dies 5 minutes after i switch to a sniper. Besides, usually against 5 snipers it's a little hard to do anything, especially if they control the field since they've got so many and they're killing the harv. The reason they CAN keep buying havocs/sakuras is the fact that they get so much points for shooting anything. The idea of sniping copters has no logical reasoning behind it. How does it make any sense at all, that snipers band together to shoot at vehicles? edit: and n00bjets stay in base by their ref/powerplant just waiting for tanks to come so they can pointwhore off them in city_Flying as well as walls_fly. Copters can't do fuck all about it since they don't have the range not to mention 3/4 snipers on the wall and you really can't do shit about using a copter since you die in 2 seconds flat.
Sniper_De7 wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 07:41 Unfortunately, the base usually dies 5 minutes after i switch to a sniper. Besides, usually against 5 snipers it's a little hard to do anything, especially if they control the field since they've got so many and they're killing the harv. The reason they CAN keep buying havocs/sakuras is the fact that they get so much points for shooting anything. The idea of sniping copters has no logical reasoning behind it. How does it make any sense at all, that snipers band together to shoot at vehicles? edit: and n00bjets stay in base by their ref/powerplant just waiting for tanks to come so they can pointwhore off them in city_Flying as well as walls_fly. Copters can't do fuck all about it since they don't have the range not to mention 3/4 snipers on the wall and you really can't do shit about using a copter since you die in 2 seconds flat. I have killed three snipers on the wall as Nod on that map (one Havoc, two Deadeyes, by neckshotting the Havoc after bodyshotting neck shotting the Deadeye, and headshotting the other Deadeye. It is easy to kill snipers on the wall. Helicopters are useless in Renegade anyway, except to toy around in.
Goztow wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 02:36 The way to fights havoc is with a sniper. It's simple as that. If your enemy has a sniper sniping heli's, then go snipe the sniper. If he's dead, he can't snipe your heli, can he? The only unfair point of ramjets is the ridiculous amount of points they make. Other than that, it balances the game perfectly. It's the only serious thread against heli's who are overpowered alltogether. Also they cost 1000, so it's not as if you can waste so many of them. They also suck against heavy or medium armored tanks, making them useless during a rush. Therefor, 1 ramjet can be a necessity, 4 ramjets will make you simply loose the game if the enemy team is organised. Some people don't understand that if there are too many ramjets, you could just use a unit that ain't harmed by it. As I said: the only unfair part is the amount of points they gather from shooting tanks. Finally. I said twice use a flame tank, or a light tank, as it removes them effectively.
nukchebi0 wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 14:20 If they are on the bridge then you can buy a flamer and run them over. Helicopters are useless in Renegade anyway, except to toy around in. I'm just going to come out and say it: you suck at Renegade.
mrpirate wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 15:48 nukchebi0 wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 14:20 If they are on the bridge then you can buy a flamer and run them over. Helicopters are useless in Renegade anyway, except to toy around in. I'm just going to come out and say it: you suck at Renegade. I agree with this statement.
No competent sniper is going to sit on a bridge or any place a vehicle can possibly reach. Doing so is suicide and most everybody knows it. And flamers are incredibly easy to avoid/escape if you're not in the open, which a sniper should not be. Aircraft are very useful at reconnaissance and vehicle killing, since they can get right up above a vehicle where its turret cannot reach.
When you snipe you just take a humvee or a buggy along with you. When you see a tank on the bridge (On City_Flying) you get your ass in and go back to the base. You'll be able to outrun the flamer, get out and take a few potshots at it just to humilate it, and then get back in. Pathetically easy.
Lijitsu wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 16:43 mrpirate wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 15:48 nukchebi0 wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 14:20 If they are on the bridge then you can buy a flamer and run them over. Helicopters are useless in Renegade anyway, except to toy around in. I'm just going to come out and say it: you suck at Renegade. I agree with this statement.
mrpirate wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 14:48 nukchebi0 wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 14:20 If they are on the bridge then you can buy a flamer and run them over. Helicopters are useless in Renegade anyway, except to toy around in. I'm just going to come out and say it: you suck at Renegade. Why?
SpyGuy246 wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 17:13 No competent sniper is going to sit on a bridge or any place a vehicle can possibly reach. Doing so is suicide and most everybody knows it. And flamers are incredibly easy to avoid/escape if you're not in the open, which a sniper should not be. Aircraft are very useful at reconnaissance and vehicle killing, since they can get right up above a vehicle where its turret cannot reach. Single vehicle killing, because if to hover above one, you will get the crap blown out of you by another. However, I did forget about the reconnaissance aspect, and they are helpful for that.
Not necessarily. A good pilot can outmaneuver multiple tanks and even APCs. Missile-type vehicles might pose a bit of a problem, but stanks are too lightly armored and MRLSs are just impractical. They also both don't have the ability to aim very high. And none of these can cause the same kind of damage in the same amount of time as a Ramjet. Not that I'm saying that aircraft alone is enough for an assault. It's meant to be a supplement.
I suppose my being capable of killing over 10 vehicles on city flying with a copter and getting most kills has nothing to do with the fact that it's a good unit.
nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 12:24 mrpirate wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 14:48 nukchebi0 wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 14:20 If they are on the bridge then you can buy a flamer and run them over. Helicopters are useless in Renegade anyway, except to toy around in. I'm just going to come out and say it: you suck at Renegade. Why? See the quoted lines.
mrpirate wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 12:05 nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 12:24 mrpirate wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 14:48 nukchebi0 wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 14:20 If they are on the bridge then you can buy a flamer and run them over. Helicopters are useless in Renegade anyway, except to toy around in. I'm just going to come out and say it: you suck at Renegade. Why? See the quoted lines. That's really helpful. You typed a vague unsupported statement and are telling me to understand it. Really funny.
nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 09:24 mrpirate wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 14:48 nukchebi0 wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 14:20 If they are on the bridge then you can buy a flamer and run them over. Helicopters are useless in Renegade anyway, except to toy around in. I'm just going to come out and say it: you suck at Renegade. Why? Copters, especially transports, are not something you "toy around in", especially if you actually HAVE A JOB TO DO while controlling them. I've been playing for a fairly short time, about 2 weeks now, and I got all but 2 of my recommendations (6) for transporting units. Clearly, the only maps I can do this on is City and Walls Flying, but oh well. I agree with Sniper about the fact that ramjets are too powerful for the flying craft, especially transports. When I have several units and do my common cliff drops on Walls Flying, I tend to lways notice my health has gone from full to near 0 in about 2-3 seconds. Why? Because the other team has about 5 ramjets firing continuously at my transport. If you want to even this out, at least have a gunner position on the flying transports, so you can kill those pesky snipers, instead of risking yourself to squash them. Being a mainly transporting guy on the flying levels, those ramjets probably piss me off more than the occasional tank rider or soldier. Thats just my two cents worth though.
I'm personally surprised you could get 4 recommendations with a Chinook, let alone any kind of aircraft. More often than not, those are deathtraps on the servers I join -- partially due to Ramjets and partially due to idiot pilots.
SpyGuy246 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 16:53 I'm personally surprised you could get 4 recommendations with a Chinook, let alone any kind of aircraft. More often than not, those are deathtraps on the servers I join -- partially due to Ramjets and partially due to idiot pilots. I don't even think the server I join allows Chinooks... I don't remember, but I know that the Apache and Orca are used often when available. Generally every 3rd pilot isn't an idiot, and every 3rd of those pilots knows exactly what he's doing.
OK, I will elaborate. You suck at Renegade because you suggest killing snipers with a Flame Tank. Is this your prefered strategy? I am having some difficulty an circumstance other than extreme stupidity (what's this about a "n00b"jet?) where a Flame Tank would be able to drive across the bridge on City_Flying without the Havocs at the other end doing something in the 30 seconds or so before the Flame Tank arrived to stop it from killing them. Or maybe you were planning to use the Flame Tank, a unit with no splash damage and extremely limited range, to kill snipers in areas where they can't be run over. I don't know. You suck at Renegade because you say helicopters are useless. In my experience, the exact opposite is true. And I have been playing Renegade for over four years, as well as playing in clans like gse, (who lost something like 9 out of 200 clan wars) so I'd like to think my experience is worth something. I always use an Orca or Apache when I play on City_Flying, as does Sniper_de7, and he and I almost always finish near the top of the server in points and kills. I don't have any numbers, but I'd say that if you're playing on City_Flying and myself or de7 is on your team in a helicopter, you'd certainly win the majority of the time. Hopefully this reply is in-depth enough for you.
mrpirate wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 15:16 OK, I will elaborate. You suck at Renegade because you suggest killing snipers with a Flame Tank. Is this your prefered strategy? I am having some difficulty an circumstance other than extreme stupidity (what's this about a "n00b"jet?) where a Flame Tank would be able to drive across the bridge on City_Flying without the Havocs at the other end doing something in the 30 seconds or so before the Flame Tank arrived to stop it from killing them. Or maybe you were planning to use the Flame Tank, a unit with no splash damage and extremely limited range, to kill snipers in areas where they can't be run over. I don't know. You suck at Renegade because you say helicopters are useless. In my experience, the exact opposite is true. And I have been playing Renegade for over four years, as well as playing in clans like gse, (who lost something like 9 out of 200 clan wars) so I'd like to think my experience is worth something. I always use an Orca or Apache when I play on City_Flying, as does Sniper_de7, and he and I almost always finish near the top of the server in points and kills. I don't have any numbers, but I'd say that if you're playing on City_Flying and myself or de7 is on your team in a helicopter, you'd certainly win the majority of the time. Hopefully this reply is in-depth enough for you. 1. I forgot that flame tanks aren't as fast as they are in Tiberian Dawn, where they are useful for squashing infantry, as well as torching them. And, snipers on the bridge can be run over. 2. Thank you for proving my point that the ramjet isn't overpowered. If it wasn't effective against helicopters, then the game would essentially be an air battle, as no ground vehicles would survive to be useful. Then the game would be pointless. Ramjets help insure that air units are supplements, not commandos. If I played Tiberian Dawn and bought only Orcas, I would lose to the easy computer in about two seconds when Flame Tanks wipe out my base defenses, and impossible to kill rocket soldiers tore my Orcas apart before eliminating the rest of my base from the map. Or I could buy only Apaches, and get annihilated when Mammoth Tanks destroy my oblisks and shoot down my Apaches with their Tusk missiles. Instead, I use Orcas for hunting harvesters, and unprotected vehicles, or turrets, while using Apaches to eliminate MLRS's and bands of grenadiers. However, I always have tanks, so when there is air defenses, or overwhelming forces that air units can't handle. The smae is for Renegade. If there is no defense, then helicopters are fine. But helicopters won't survuve against any defense at all. I remember one rather idiotic attack I commenced in which I commanded four Apaches to eliminate a Mammoth Tank. By the time the attack finished, the Mammoth Tank had two third of its health,m and I had three dead copters. Since their is no homing rockets in Renegade, ramjets provide the anti-air defense that is otherwise so desperately lacking. I don't suck at Renegade. prefer to snipe, and on City Flying am shooting down helicopters with the Ramjet. If someone wanted to snipe me, they easily could. But I never die. When I want to kill people I use the sniper rifle, but the Ramjet is much more effective at anti-air. Have snipers cover you if to want to fly helicopters, but don't expect to win with them over enemy territory. It doesn't work in Tiberian Dawn, and it shouldn't work in Renegade. (Also, what servers do you play on?)
nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:14 mrpirate wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 15:16 OK, I will elaborate. You suck at Renegade because you suggest killing snipers with a Flame Tank. Is this your prefered strategy? I am having some difficulty an circumstance other than extreme stupidity (what's this about a "n00b"jet?) where a Flame Tank would be able to drive across the bridge on City_Flying without the Havocs at the other end doing something in the 30 seconds or so before the Flame Tank arrived to stop it from killing them. Or maybe you were planning to use the Flame Tank, a unit with no splash damage and extremely limited range, to kill snipers in areas where they can't be run over. I don't know. You suck at Renegade because you say helicopters are useless. In my experience, the exact opposite is true. And I have been playing Renegade for over four years, as well as playing in clans like gse, (who lost something like 9 out of 200 clan wars) so I'd like to think my experience is worth something. I always use an Orca or Apache when I play on City_Flying, as does Sniper_de7, and he and I almost always finish near the top of the server in points and kills. I don't have any numbers, but I'd say that if you're playing on City_Flying and myself or de7 is on your team in a helicopter, you'd certainly win the majority of the time. Hopefully this reply is in-depth enough for you. 1. I forgot that flame tanks aren't as fast as they are in Tiberian Dawn, where they are useful for squashing infantry, as well as torching them. And, snipers on the bridge can be run over. 2. Thank you for proving my point that the ramjet isn't overpowered. If it wasn't effective against helicopters, then the game would essentially be an air battle, as no ground vehicles would survive to be useful. Then the game would be pointless. Ramjets help insure that air units are supplements, not commandos. If I played Tiberian Dawn and bought only Orcas, I would lose to the easy computer in about two seconds when Flame Tanks wipe out my base defenses, and impossible to kill rocket soldiers tore my Orcas apart before eliminating the rest of my base from the map. Or I could buy only Apaches, and get annihilated when Mammoth Tanks destroy my oblisks and shoot down my Apaches with their Tusk missiles. Instead, I use Orcas for hunting harvesters, and unprotected vehicles, or turrets, while using Apaches to eliminate MLRS's and bands of grenadiers. However, I always have tanks, so when there is air defenses, or overwhelming forces that air units can't handle. The smae is for Renegade. If there is no defense, then helicopters are fine. But helicopters won't survuve against any defense at all. I remember one rather idiotic attack I commenced in which I commanded four Apaches to eliminate a Mammoth Tank. By the time the attack finished, the Mammoth Tank had two third of its health,m and I had three dead copters. Since their is no homing rockets in Renegade, ramjets provide the anti-air defense that is otherwise so desperately lacking. I don't suck at Renegade. prefer to snipe, and on City Flying am shooting down helicopters with the Ramjet. If someone wanted to snipe me, they easily could. But I never die. When I want to kill people I use the sniper rifle, but the Ramjet is much more effective at anti-air. Have snipers cover you if to want to fly helicopters, but don't expect to win with them over enemy territory. It doesn't work in Tiberian Dawn, and it shouldn't work in Renegade. (Also, what servers do you play on?) Well, you and your four Apache must have been horrible pilots then if you only damged 2/3 of the Mammoth Tank's health
Feetseek wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 20:19 nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:14 mrpirate wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 15:16 OK, I will elaborate. You suck at Renegade because you suggest killing snipers with a Flame Tank. Is this your prefered strategy? I am having some difficulty an circumstance other than extreme stupidity (what's this about a "n00b"jet?) where a Flame Tank would be able to drive across the bridge on City_Flying without the Havocs at the other end doing something in the 30 seconds or so before the Flame Tank arrived to stop it from killing them. Or maybe you were planning to use the Flame Tank, a unit with no splash damage and extremely limited range, to kill snipers in areas where they can't be run over. I don't know. You suck at Renegade because you say helicopters are useless. In my experience, the exact opposite is true. And I have been playing Renegade for over four years, as well as playing in clans like gse, (who lost something like 9 out of 200 clan wars) so I'd like to think my experience is worth something. I always use an Orca or Apache when I play on City_Flying, as does Sniper_de7, and he and I almost always finish near the top of the server in points and kills. I don't have any numbers, but I'd say that if you're playing on City_Flying and myself or de7 is on your team in a helicopter, you'd certainly win the majority of the time. Hopefully this reply is in-depth enough for you. 1. I forgot that flame tanks aren't as fast as they are in Tiberian Dawn, where they are useful for squashing infantry, as well as torching them. And, snipers on the bridge can be run over. 2. Thank you for proving my point that the ramjet isn't overpowered. If it wasn't effective against helicopters, then the game would essentially be an air battle, as no ground vehicles would survive to be useful. Then the game would be pointless. Ramjets help insure that air units are supplements, not commandos. If I played Tiberian Dawn and bought only Orcas, I would lose to the easy computer in about two seconds when Flame Tanks wipe out my base defenses, and impossible to kill rocket soldiers tore my Orcas apart before eliminating the rest of my base from the map. Or I could buy only Apaches, and get annihilated when Mammoth Tanks destroy my oblisks and shoot down my Apaches with their Tusk missiles. Instead, I use Orcas for hunting harvesters, and unprotected vehicles, or turrets, while using Apaches to eliminate MLRS's and bands of grenadiers. However, I always have tanks, so when there is air defenses, or overwhelming forces that air units can't handle. The smae is for Renegade. If there is no defense, then helicopters are fine. But helicopters won't survuve against any defense at all. I remember one rather idiotic attack I commenced in which I commanded four Apaches to eliminate a Mammoth Tank. By the time the attack finished, the Mammoth Tank had two third of its health,m and I had three dead copters. Since their is no homing rockets in Renegade, ramjets provide the anti-air defense that is otherwise so desperately lacking. I don't suck at Renegade. prefer to snipe, and on City Flying am shooting down helicopters with the Ramjet. If someone wanted to snipe me, they easily could. But I never die. When I want to kill people I use the sniper rifle, but the Ramjet is much more effective at anti-air. Have snipers cover you if to want to fly helicopters, but don't expect to win with them over enemy territory. It doesn't work in Tiberian Dawn, and it shouldn't work in Renegade. (Also, what servers do you play on?) Well, you and your four Apache must have been horrible pilots then if you only damged 2/3 of the Mammoth Tank's health No, the Apache chaingun doesn't damage heavily armored vehicles. And, you missed my entire point.
Rockets?? And sorry if I missed my point. I'm dumb.
Feetseek wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:27 Rockets?? And sorry if I missed my point. I'm dumb. There are no rockets on Apaches in Tiberian Dawn.
OOOOHHHH. Tiberian Dawn....... Feetseek wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:27 I'm dumb.
How is that proof that ramjets aren't overpowered? because 2 people who happen are considerably better than the majority of renegade in copters can kill n00b snipers? Yeah, screw everyone else, right? Here's the thing which I've already stated. any general n00b can shoot at a vehicle in the sky with a gun that shoots instantly and its range is endless. meanwhile, any general n00b in an apache *can't* kill a sniper since it takes a bit of skill to actually hit a small moving target, especially in the less than 6 seconds given to the pilot. That's saying if it was just one 1000 dollar sniper. Just because *we* can kill plenty of snipers isn't something you can use as a point. I can kill sakuras with tib sydneys but what does that mean? get my point? If anything, we'd have more say. I was just in a server not too long ago where some guy bought honest-to-god 7-8 sakuras in a row. Never once did he even attempt anything else. Now, just because this guy sucks with a ramjet isn't something you can rely on if you're goign to convince anyone that the n00bjet is under or over powered. The fact of the matter is that it takes a mere 5 shots to kill a full health apache. You can do this at any range you like, and can even hide in windows where copters can't even hit you. Now a copter? can't exactly do much to hide a copter from the field. Get out to repair and there's a tank near you you're screwed. I'm not even going to use my trump card because I don't have to. And why are you talking about tiberian dawn? what's the point of that in renegade? is it because it's loosely based on it? And it's a common mistake for the guy to realize you aren't talking about Tiberian dawn since it holds no bearing in a completely different game, so if you're going to use an argument can you use one LOGICALLY? For the sake of God, if not for me. Because God hates stupid people
Feetseek wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:40 OOOOHHHH. Tiberian Dawn....... Feetseek wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:27 I'm dumb. Obviously, based on your juvenile response and ignorance to the fact I was talking about Tiberian Dawn.
Sniper_De7 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 20:44 How is that proof that ramjets aren't overpowered? because 2 people who happen are considerably better than the majority of renegade in copters can kill n00b snipers? Yeah, screw everyone else, right? Here's the thing which I've already stated. any general n00b can shoot at a vehicle in the sky with a gun that shoots instantly and its range is endless. meanwhile, any general n00b in an apache *can't* kill a sniper since it takes a bit of skill to actually hit a small moving target, especially in the less than 6 seconds given to the pilot. That's saying if it was just one 1000 dollar sniper. Just because *we* can kill plenty of snipers isn't something you can use as a point. I can kill sakuras with tib sydneys but what does that mean? get my point? If anything, we'd have more say. I was just in a server not too long ago where some guy bought honest-to-god 7-8 sakuras in a row. Never once did he even attempt anything else. Now, just because this guy sucks with a ramjet isn't something you can rely on if you're goign to convince anyone that the n00bjet is under or over powered. The fact of the matter is that it takes a mere 5 shots to kill a full health apache. You can do this at any range you like, and can even hide in windows where copters can't even hit you. Now a copter? can't exactly do much to hide a copter from the field. Get out to repair and there's a tank near you you're screwed. I'm not even going to use my trump card because I don't have to. And why are you talking about tiberian dawn? what's the point of that in renegade? is it because it's loosely based on it? You obviously didn't read close enough in my post about the balancing of the helicopter's power, or having a cover sniper. Anyway, what is your trump card?
Yes, I did already comment on it, and i said a snipe rwould be the last unit in the world to shoot copters. a sniper = kill infantry. If you're going to have an anti-copter unit, it should be a PIC/Rave, That makes more logical sense than a sniper. Or i said if it's going to be a unit like the sniper, make it so that it takes the least bit of skill to kill a copter. Not anyone who has an IQ of over 12 can shoot copters. I'm not goign to tell you my trump since anyone who's had a hand of playing clanwars (which, if you're going to go into strategies as to winning a map, clanwars shows you exactly how to do it) would know what i mean with snipers. The point is, snipers = killing infantry. Every person who supports n00bjets are the exact same people who use n00bjets religiously. They're the ones I talk about where if you kill them, they'll buy another 1000 dollar sniper, over and over and over until the map ends. They know, as I do, that they get massive points for shooting copters and they can reclaim their lost money easily by shooting anything on sight, meaning if you kill them they can easily buy another. This is why if the sniper had any ounce of skill in it, say the gun didn't shoot instantly, I'd know for a fact these people would STOP using it, since they'd suck so bad they'd probably just leave the server. Does that about sum it up for you? I don't know how much more easy i can tell you
I play on pretty much any server that doesn't have me banned (see signature). I've been using the name letterB recently, but you may see me playing as tibharvy, brutalHJ, or mrpirate. And how is everyone getting helicopters any more annoying than everyone getting n00bjets, which is the case now?
Sniper_De7 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 20:56 Yes, I did already comment on it, and i said a snipe rwould be the last unit in the world to shoot copters. a sniper = kill infantry. If you're going to have an anti-copter unit, it should be a PIC/Rave, That makes more logical sense than a sniper. Or i said if it's going to be a unit like the sniper, make it so that it takes the least bit of skill to kill a copter. Not anyone who has an IQ of over 12 can shoot copters. I'm not goign to tell you my trump since anyone who's had a hand of playing clanwars (which, if you're going to go into strategies as to winning a map, clanwars shows you exactly how to do it) would know what i mean with snipers. The point is, snipers = killing infantry. Every person who supports n00bjets are the exact same people who use n00bjets religiously. They're the ones I talk about where if you kill them, they'll buy another 1000 dollar sniper, over and over and over until the map ends. They know, as I do, that they get massive points for shooting copters and they can reclaim their lost money easily by shooting anything on sight, meaning if you kill them they can easily buy another. This is why if the sniper had any ounce of skill in it, say the gun didn't shoot instantly, I'd know for a fact these people would STOP using it, since they'd suck so bad they'd probably just leave the server. Does that about sum it up for you? I don't know how much more easy i can tell you A ramjet was obviously designed to be more than just a sniper rifle.
Not really, Westwood just threw it in there to counter copters, they didn't care to actually make it fair though, which is exactly the point i'm trying to say. Westwood had no real intentions to making the ramjet be overpowered. They had no knowledge that people would abuse the fact people would use it to get massive points and have 5 n00bjets on one team. If they would have known they'd have made another unit and make it so that it takes a small amount of skill to kill a copter. Not make it so everyone can, as everyone does. So to answer your question, it WAS intended to be just to kill infantry. That's what a sniper rifle is for. You don't hear stories of the white feather shooting down tanks. It's because it's impractical. And besides even yet And even so, it stilld oesn't explain why it's good against artys or anything, since tanks are aplenty good anti-arty or anti-mrl unit, so logically it doesn't fit at all. Here let me stretch a story to make a point, if westwood had a gun that killed all copters in one hit, but copters could kill other things well, does that mean that it makes that specific gun any more or less fair? If it's going to be fair, make it so that it takes more skill to kill a copter. I'm fine if it's anti air and everything, but it shouldn't be able to kill a copter in 5 hits, if it was say 10 or something, than it would require a lot more skill for a person. Now do you understand? Just because it's anti-whatever doesn't mean it should be overpowered so much that it makes that unit useless
nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:47 You obviously didn't read close enough in my post about the balancing of the helicopter's power, or having a cover sniper. Anyway, what is your trump card? If you truly think that because the Ramjet Rifle is basically the only thing that can take down orcas and apaches besides other orcas and apaches, that this is a reason why it is not overpowered, then something is wrong with you. 1) The Ramjet Rifle is a sniper rifle... which happens to kill every character in 2 hits, and also decimates vehicles.. If you don't think its strange that an anti-infantry weapon severely damages vehicles, then my point will totally be lost. 2) The Ramjet Rifle does just the same or more damage to all of the light-armoured vehicle than any other infantry weapons can in the same amount of time, but with infinite range and instantaneously. 3) The Ramjet Rifle seems to be a all-purpose weapon! The amount of points that it gives just for shooting tanks is insane. If you think it takes any skill at all to pop a tank with a ramjet rifle, you must be crazy. 4) Part of the Ramjet's overpoweredness comes from it being the only weapon besides other orcas and choppers that can easily and effectively take them down, it severely outbalances the other weapons.. why bother buying something else when you can buy a ramjet and demolish the helicopters without them being able to take a shot at you?
Ralphzehunter wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:23 nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:47 You obviously didn't read close enough in my post about the balancing of the helicopter's power, or having a cover sniper. Anyway, what is your trump card? If you truly think that because the Ramjet Rifle is basically the only thing that can take down orcas and apaches besides other orcas and apaches, that this is a reason why it is not overpowered, then something is wrong with you. 1) The Ramjet Rifle is a sniper rifle... which happens to kill every character in 2 hits, and also decimates vehicles.. If you don't think its strange that an anti-infantry weapon severely damages vehicles, then my point will totally be lost. 2) The Ramjet Rifle does just the same or more damage to all of the light-armoured vehicle than any other infantry weapons can in the same amount of time, but with infinite range and instantaneously. 3) The Ramjet Rifle seems to be a all-purpose weapon! The amount of points that it gives just for shooting tanks is insane. If you think it takes any skill at all to pop a tank with a ramjet rifle, you must be crazy. 4) Part of the Ramjet's overpoweredness comes from it being the only weapon besides other orcas and choppers that can easily and effectively take them down, it severely outbalances the other weapons.. why bother buying something else when you can buy a ramjet and demolish the helicopters without them being able to take a shot at you? 1. Conisidering Renegade's futuristic weaponry, that isn't a surprise. 2. Which comes at the expense of being an instant target for other snipers. 3. I don't like the benefits of shooting tanks. I was talking only about helicopters. 4. My experiences tell me other snipers can easily kill ramjet infantry.
Sniper_De7 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:16 Not really, Westwood just threw it in there to counter copters, they didn't care to actually make it fair though, which is exactly the point i'm trying to say. Westwood had no real intentions to making the ramjet be overpowered. They had no knowledge that people would abuse the fact people would use it to get massive points and have 5 n00bjets on one team. If they would have known they'd have made another unit and make it so that it takes a small amount of skill to kill a copter. Not make it so everyone can, as everyone does. So to answer your question, it WAS intended to be just to kill infantry. That's what a sniper rifle is for. You don't hear stories of the white feather shooting down tanks. It's because it's impractical. And besides even yet And even so, it stilld oesn't explain why it's good against artys or anything, since tanks are aplenty good anti-arty or anti-mrl unit, so logically it doesn't fit at all. Here let me stretch a story to make a point, if westwood had a gun that killed all copters in one hit, but copters could kill other things well, does that mean that it makes that specific gun any more or less fair? If it's going to be fair, make it so that it takes more skill to kill a copter. I'm fine if it's anti air and everything, but it shouldn't be able to kill a copter in 5 hits, if it was say 10 or something, than it would require a lot more skill for a person. Now do you understand? Just because it's anti-whatever doesn't mean it should be overpowered so much that it makes that unit useless If it really wasn't fair, wouldn't someone have made a patch to fix it, especially Westwood, considering the amount of feedback they have recieved. Also, helicopters do need a counter.
Uh because people didn't buy 5+ n00bjets back in 2002 when Westwood could make a patch to fix it. If you honestly think EA cares about Renegade enough so to make a patch for it, after 4 years of it, you'd be out of your mind. Westwood only put it in there at the last second, how could they possibly foretell that people were going to abuse n00bjets? They didn't. Let me answer why n00bjets are n00bjets. If you're going to make a gun one of the things in question will be, "how fast does the gun reach its target?" Now, for shooting a copter, having a gun that shoots INSTANTLY is already anti-air, since there's only few other guns that actually do this (pic/rave/pistol/others) The second thing is...... "how far will the gun be able to shoot", in the case of a n00bjet, it shoots as far as the map allows it. Which is yet again another quality that makes it good for anti-air. The last thing you want to ask is how much damage it does, now why in god's name would a gun have ALL OF ABOVE, and then have it's damage be MORE than any other infantry? This includes a PIC/Rave, which is specifically designed for killing tanks. If this doesn't sink in, i don't know what will. A ramjet is perfectly capable of being anti air if it did small amount of damage but kept the long range + instant shot. The fact that it has all three, makes it vastly over powered. Coupled with the fact that it can hide. It makes it even more so. Not to mention the supreme amount of points you gain by shooting over half-health vehicles just so that you can gain points (which people do, I don't give a damn if you don't, people do it all the time. Today there was a team of GDI sniping my arty so I decided to be like them and snipe the entire game, shooting at mammoth tanks and killing their n00bjets. I got MVP for basically doing nothing. A little pathetic, no?
nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 22:37 Ralphzehunter wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:23 nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:47 You obviously didn't read close enough in my post about the balancing of the helicopter's power, or having a cover sniper. Anyway, what is your trump card? If you truly think that because the Ramjet Rifle is basically the only thing that can take down orcas and apaches besides other orcas and apaches, that this is a reason why it is not overpowered, then something is wrong with you. 1) The Ramjet Rifle is a sniper rifle... which happens to kill every character in 2 hits, and also decimates vehicles.. If you don't think its strange that an anti-infantry weapon severely damages vehicles, then my point will totally be lost. 2) The Ramjet Rifle does just the same or more damage to all of the light-armoured vehicle than any other infantry weapons can in the same amount of time, but with infinite range and instantaneously. 3) The Ramjet Rifle seems to be a all-purpose weapon! The amount of points that it gives just for shooting tanks is insane. If you think it takes any skill at all to pop a tank with a ramjet rifle, you must be crazy. 4) Part of the Ramjet's overpoweredness comes from it being the only weapon besides other orcas and choppers that can easily and effectively take them down, it severely outbalances the other weapons.. why bother buying something else when you can buy a ramjet and demolish the helicopters without them being able to take a shot at you? 1. Conisidering Renegade's futuristic weaponry, that isn't a surprise. 2. Which comes at the expense of being an instant target for other snipers. 3. I don't like the benefits of shooting tanks. I was talking only about helicopters. 4. My experiences tell me other snipers can easily kill ramjet infantry. 1) Then why do the rest of the infantry weapons suck compared to the Ramjet? 2) Just like any other infantry character. 3) It doesn't matter whether you're only talking about helicopters, its still a reason why ramjets are overpowered. 4) Taking account that the ramjet infantry can hide behind a wall after each shot and while reloading, it requires a lot more skill to snipe the ramjet infantry than it does for the ramjet infantry to kill the chopper/orca.
Sniper_De7 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 22:48 Uh because people didn't buy 5+ n00bjets back in 2002 when Westwood could make a patch to fix it. If you honestly think EA cares about Renegade enough so to make a patch for it, after 4 years of it, you'd be out of your mind. Westwood only put it in there at the last second, how could they possibly foretell that people were going to abuse n00bjets? They didn't. Let me answer why n00bjets are n00bjets. If you're going to make a gun one of the things in question will be, "how fast does the gun reach its target?" Now, for shooting a copter, having a gun that shoots INSTANTLY is already anti-air, since there's only few other guns that actually do this (pic/rave/pistol/others) The second thing is...... "how far will the gun be able to shoot", in the case of a n00bjet, it shoots as far as the map allows it. Which is yet again another quality that makes it good for anti-air. The last thing you want to ask is how much damage it does, now why in god's name would a gun have ALL OF ABOVE, and then have it's damage be MORE than any other infantry? This includes a PIC/Rave, which is specifically designed for killing tanks. If this doesn't sink in, i don't know what will. A ramjet is perfectly capable of being anti air if it did small amount of damage but kept the long range + instant shot. The fact that it has all three, makes it vastly over powered. Coupled with the fact that it can hide. It makes it even more so. Not to mention the supreme amount of points you gain by shooting over half-health vehicles just so that you can gain points (which people do, I don't give a damn if you don't, people do it all the time. Today there was a team of GDI sniping my arty so I decided to be like them and snipe the entire game, shooting at mammoth tanks and killing their n00bjets. I got MVP for basically doing nothing. A little pathetic, no? As far as I was aware, the PIC does more damage to tanks than the ramjet. However, I agree with you completely that the amount of points given for tank shots (14) is extraneous. However, a ramjetter within view of a helicopter should also be within view of a supporting sniper. Considering the strenght of helicopters against everything else, I think that a ramjet is perfectly fine. I have picked off three Sakuras in City Flying, protecting a transport helicopter rushing a base (I had help distracting) The Chinook had about one red bar left, but it dropped its payload sucessfully and killed the Nod powerplant. Of course, if I hadn't been there, it wouldn't have lived, thus showing the need for covering snipers when flying. I remember originally playing City_Flying and thinking that the Apache was sweet until getting blown out of the air by a ramjet. When my body landed on the bridge below, I was near a Medium Tank. Realizing my mistake, I decided to wait for the bridge to be taken by Nod before purchasing another Apache. I killed an Orca and two harvester that time, before accidentally pressing the 'E' button and falling to my doom. Anyways, I have been scared away from helicopters. Based on mrpirate, you are a very good pilot, and obviously fly over hostile territory to rack up kills quickly. Could you maybe give me a few hints on flying so I can enjoy it again?
Ralphzehunter wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 22:11 nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 22:37 Ralphzehunter wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:23 nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:47 You obviously didn't read close enough in my post about the balancing of the helicopter's power, or having a cover sniper. Anyway, what is your trump card? If you truly think that because the Ramjet Rifle is basically the only thing that can take down orcas and apaches besides other orcas and apaches, that this is a reason why it is not overpowered, then something is wrong with you. 1) The Ramjet Rifle is a sniper rifle... which happens to kill every character in 2 hits, and also decimates vehicles.. If you don't think its strange that an anti-infantry weapon severely damages vehicles, then my point will totally be lost. 2) The Ramjet Rifle does just the same or more damage to all of the light-armoured vehicle than any other infantry weapons can in the same amount of time, but with infinite range and instantaneously. 3) The Ramjet Rifle seems to be a all-purpose weapon! The amount of points that it gives just for shooting tanks is insane. If you think it takes any skill at all to pop a tank with a ramjet rifle, you must be crazy. 4) Part of the Ramjet's overpoweredness comes from it being the only weapon besides other orcas and choppers that can easily and effectively take them down, it severely outbalances the other weapons.. why bother buying something else when you can buy a ramjet and demolish the helicopters without them being able to take a shot at you? 1. Conisidering Renegade's futuristic weaponry, that isn't a surprise. 2. Which comes at the expense of being an instant target for other snipers. 3. I don't like the benefits of shooting tanks. I was talking only about helicopters. 4. My experiences tell me other snipers can easily kill ramjet infantry. 1) Then why do the rest of the infantry weapons suck compared to the Ramjet? 2) Just like any other infantry character. 3) It doesn't matter whether you're only talking about helicopters, its still a reason why ramjets are overpowered. 4) Taking account that the ramjet infantry can hide behind a wall after each shot and while reloading, it requires a lot more skill to snipe the ramjet infantry than it does for the ramjet infantry to kill the chopper/orca. 1. The Volt-Auto Rifle, PIC, Laser chaingun, Chem Sprayer, to name a few that don't. 2. An annoyer is targeted first. 3. Over credited, more like it. 4. Not really, considering the ramjet infantry won't move around like a lunatic when not under direct attack, which makes headshots easy.
Sniper_De7 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 19:16 Not really, Westwood just threw it in there to counter copters First of all, that's inaccurate. The Ramjet Rifle was in the multiplayer game before the 1.030 patch introduced the flying vehicles to multiplayer a month and a half after the game's release. It was also used by one Black Hand Sniper on top of the Comm Center in the second to last mission of singleplayer. Unless you have evidence that EA was planning, before crunch time, to have Westwood finish user-operated flying vehicles after the game's release, that argument is shot down. Secondly, would you prefer that the game be balanced as it was in singleplayer? If you ever play it, try shooting the buggy and apache with a sniper rifle, then a rocket, in the second level on Commando difficulty. Another important thing to note is that the rate of fire of the guns on the buggy, hummer, apaches, and APCs is also at least half of what it is in muitiplayer. Also, see what a remote C4 does to a building's MCT or a turret (or a rocket or grenade launcher to a turret), and what a Personal Ion Cannon/rocket/tank shell does to every vehicle. Would you prefer that the PIC take out everything through an APC in one hit, kill light tanks in two, and kill heavier vehicles in three or four shots? Would you like the slow rocket and grenade launcher to be capable of killing an apc in 3-4 hits, respectively? Would you want apaches restricted to chainguns, and orcas restricted to missiles, and have them refill on the helipad after discharging their payloads? My philosophy on this issue is as follows: The default settings for the game have been the same as they were back in early 2003 when the 1.037 patch was released. Nothing is going to officially change, and the only differences you will see are made by specific server settings or community-made modifications. One example is Black-Cell's Veterancy system, which gives light vehicles increased resistance to the sniper rifle and Ramjet when you reach a certain score and kill a certain amount of enemy units. If you prefer to play in a vanilla (pure) Renegade server, and you've been playing since the game was released, you already know how it's going to be, so adapt your gameplay style to improve your success rate. If you possess this knowledge, yet you choose not to at least attempt to adapt, you have no just reason to gripe. Don't cry "n00bjet" if you're willing to fly into the fray as a lone forward assault unit while your team doesn't control the field enough to protect you from snipers. You have eyes and ears, and you know most of the game's possible strategies, as well as the preference of infantry-oriented players to buy snipers, so if you're not using your senses and knowledge, you only have yourself to blame for being blasted out of the sky.
Here's the arguement, pure and simple. The noobjet is the noobjet because noobs buy them, and only them. In this case, a noob is someone who uses the ramjet for what it isn't intented (Shooting Mammoths, etc), and suck with them when faced with their actual task (Killing infantry). My last game on C&C_City_Flying, Over half the team (12 people) were getting ramjets and nothing but ramjets. Coincidentally, all of those except for 1 or 2 had almost nonexistant score totals, with maybe 5 kills between them all. You know what would balence the Ramjet? Making it the single-shot per clip variety like the kind you pick up from dead Sakuras. This makes a lot of sense, seeing how it's so high powered. Let it keep the range and the power and the instant shot, but make it a one-shot-at-a-time weapon.
havoc9826 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 23:11 Sniper_De7 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 19:16 Not really, Westwood just threw it in there to counter copters First of all, that's inaccurate. The Ramjet Rifle was in the multiplayer game before the 1.030 patch introduced the flying vehicles to multiplayer a month and a half after the game's release. It was also used by one Black Hand Sniper on top of the Comm Center in the second to last mission of singleplayer. Unless you have evidence that EA was planning, before crunch time, to have Westwood finish user-operated flying vehicles after the game's release, that argument is shot down. Secondly, would you prefer that the game be balanced as it was in singleplayer? If you ever play it, try shooting the buggy and apache with a sniper rifle, then a rocket, in the second level on Commando difficulty. Another important thing to note is that the rate of fire of the guns on the buggy, hummer, apaches, and APCs is also at least half of what it is in muitiplayer. Also, see what a remote C4 does to a building's MCT or a turret (or a rocket or grenade launcher to a turret), and what a Personal Ion Cannon/rocket/tank shell does to every vehicle. Would you prefer that the PIC take out everything through an APC in one hit, kill light tanks in two, and kill heavier vehicles in three or four shots? Would you like the slow rocket and grenade launcher to be capable of killing an apc in 3-4 hits, respectively? Would you want apaches restricted to chainguns, and orcas restricted to missiles, and have them refill on the helipad after discharging their payloads? My philosophy on this issue is as follows: The default settings for the game have been the same as they were back in early 2003 when the 1.037 patch was released. Nothing is going to officially change, and the only differences you will see are made by specific server settings or community-made modifications. One example is Black-Cell's Veterancy system, which gives light vehicles increased resistance to the sniper rifle and Ramjet when you reach a certain score and kill a certain amount of enemy units. If you prefer to play in a vanilla (pure) Renegade server, and you've been playing since the game was released, you already know how it's going to be, so adapt your gameplay style to improve your success rate. If you possess this knowledge, yet you choose not to at least attempt to adapt, you have no just reason to gripe. Don't cry "n00bjet" if you're willing to fly into the fray as a lone forward assault unit while your team doesn't control the field enough to protect you from snipers. You have eyes and ears, and you know most of the game's possible strategies, as well as the preference of infantry-oriented players to buy snipers, so if you're not using your senses and knowledge, you only have yourself to blame for being blasted out of the sky.
havoc9826 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 00:11 Sniper_De7 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 19:16 Not really, Westwood just threw it in there to counter copters First of all, that's inaccurate. The Ramjet Rifle was in the multiplayer game before the 1.030 patch introduced the flying vehicles to multiplayer a month and a half after the game's release. It was also used by one Black Hand Sniper on top of the Comm Center in the second to last mission of singleplayer. Unless you have evidence that EA was planning, before crunch time, to have Westwood finish user-operated flying vehicles after the game's release, that argument is shot down. If I remember correctly Westwood wasn't able to get seeking rockets to work in time for release with the 1.015 or whatever patch added aircraft, so the Ramjet was used as an anti-aircraft gun. Perhaps someone like Aircraftkiller who actually knows what they're talking about can clear this up because my memory is spotty.
I did a bit of Googling, and I found the patch notes for 1.014 and 1.015. Unless part of the "Multiplayer balance tweaking" and "Various modifications and bug fixes." listed in 1.014 include the MRLS rockets' seeker ability, I'm not sure when it was added. 1.014 came out 2 days after the game was released, and it included the "Q" button toggle and some other junk. 1.015 came out 1 day later to fix firewall problems. The next patch, 1.030, was released a month and a half later, and it included the flying vehicles. I'll attach the appended version I made of the patch history which is already on your computer at C:\Westwood\Renegade\patch.txt (mine includes the 1.014 and 1.015 notes).
I'm pretty sure it was said by aircraftkiller or someone else that worked with westwood said that they did it as such. But n00bjets completely lose their argument against Arties and MRLs and any other non-flying unit. There is a unit that's good against artys/mrls - Know what it's called? It's called a tank. Yet you see people n00bjetting them consistantly over and over. Why? Because they get massive points and it takes absolutely NO skill to shoot the tank since it's such a huge target. Like I said, I AGREE that a sniper can be an anti-air unit. The thing that needs changing is the fact that any dipshit can grab a n00bjet and hit a copter. Renegade isn't based around unit A kills unit B always. It's Person A, who has played the game 3times more than Person B (I'm not doing this on purpose mrp) Person A should normally always win, Despite if he uses a tib sydney or a havoc. Why? Because it's a skill for aiming at infantry. However, since it requires NO skill to shooot any vehicles in game (including a copter) Not to mention n00bjets do more damage over time than PIC (dealing with light armoured vehicles - 240 damage with 4 shots, meanwhile it takes 3 shots of a PIC/Rave to do the same thing, but they have to wait for reloading, meaning it takes longer) And besides, the idea of light armoured means that it has less health already. The fact that it needs to take irregular damage from ramjets makes it completely stupid. Look, i don't know what else I need to tell you. Ramjets easily overpower copters. If you don't know what you're doing in a copter, you can do nothing to stop it. (Your own case is a very example of this, you stop coptering because it's useless) Which is the case for every other person who wants to try out a copter, they get owned so fast with snipers they don't stand a chance. I already admitted that anti-air is generally necessary the thing which fails to be addressed is that just because a unit is anti-whatever, doesn't mean that it should do massive damage to it. I mean if rockets did major damage to copters the people who buy n00bjets wouldn't buy rocket soldiers because that would require an ounce of skill to actually hit a copter. They specifically buy ramjets because it's extremely easy to use and it's overpowered. I don't know how much more clearer I can get. edit: Also, I think I've already stated that I can usually kill most of the havocs anyways. I also said that anyone *else* who wants to be in a copter doesn't stand a chance against 5 ramjets. Snipers would perfectly be capable of being support against air if they did small amounts of damage, since it means that the copter can fight a partially injured copter. Instead, and a reason why it's overpowered, it can kill them in 5 shots and pretty much with ease kill all copters except for people who know how to fly in one (not very damn many) As for your talking about single player. I don't think I've ever once suggested this and I don't know why you went out of your way to type about it. At one point did I ever say anything about copying single player or it to be like single player. Single player is a complete joke.
mrpirate wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 08:51 Person B is more skilled than person A. mrpirate you're tactic is n00bish. What is your tactic?
nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:08 A ramjet was obviously designed to be more than just a sniper rifle. Looks like a sniper rifle...scopes like a sniper rifle...shoots like a sniper rifle...sounds like a sniper rifle... It must be a sniper rifle. And since when do fair AA weapons have scopes? And since when are fair AA weapons impossible to outmaneuver, due to their super-fast projectiles?
SpyGuy246 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 13:45 nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:08 A ramjet was obviously designed to be more than just a sniper rifle. Looks like a sniper rifle...scopes like a sniper rifle...shoots like a sniper rifle...sounds like a sniper rifle... It must be a sniper rifle. And since when do fair AA weapons have scopes? And since when are fair AA weapons impossible to outmaneuver, due to their super-fast projectiles? A commando gun that can handle vehicles as well as infantry-a hybrid.
Sniper_De7 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 07:25 I'm pretty sure it was said by aircraftkiller or someone else that worked with westwood said that they did it as such. But n00bjets completely lose their argument against Arties and MRLs and any other non-flying unit. There is a unit that's good against artys/mrls - Know what it's called? It's called a tank. Yet you see people n00bjetting them consistantly over and over. Why? Because they get massive points and it takes absolutely NO skill to shoot the tank since it's such a huge target. Like I said, I AGREE that a sniper can be an anti-air unit. The thing that needs changing is the fact that any dipshit can grab a n00bjet and hit a copter. Renegade isn't based around unit A kills unit B always. It's Person A, who has played the game 3times more than Person B (I'm not doing this on purpose mrp) Person A should normally always win, Despite if he uses a tib sydney or a havoc. Why? Because it's a skill for aiming at infantry. However, since it requires NO skill to shooot any vehicles in game (including a copter) Not to mention n00bjets do more damage over time than PIC (dealing with light armoured vehicles - 240 damage with 4 shots, meanwhile it takes 3 shots of a PIC/Rave to do the same thing, but they have to wait for reloading, meaning it takes longer) And besides, the idea of light armoured means that it has less health already. The fact that it needs to take irregular damage from ramjets makes it completely stupid. Look, i don't know what else I need to tell you. Ramjets easily overpower copters. If you don't know what you're doing in a copter, you can do nothing to stop it. (Your own case is a very example of this, you stop coptering because it's useless) Which is the case for every other person who wants to try out a copter, they get owned so fast with snipers they don't stand a chance. I already admitted that anti-air is generally necessary the thing which fails to be addressed is that just because a unit is anti-whatever, doesn't mean that it should do massive damage to it. I mean if rockets did major damage to copters the people who buy n00bjets wouldn't buy rocket soldiers because that would require an ounce of skill to actually hit a copter. They specifically buy ramjets because it's extremely easy to use and it's overpowered. I don't know how much more clearer I can get. edit: Also, I think I've already stated that I can usually kill most of the havocs anyways. I also said that anyone *else* who wants to be in a copter doesn't stand a chance against 5 ramjets. Snipers would perfectly be capable of being support against air if they did small amounts of damage, since it means that the copter can fight a partially injured copter. Instead, and a reason why it's overpowered, it can kill them in 5 shots and pretty much with ease kill all copters except for people who know how to fly in one (not very damn many) As for your talking about single player. I don't think I've ever once suggested this and I don't know why you went out of your way to type about it. At one point did I ever say anything about copying single player or it to be like single player. Single player is a complete joke. Okay, I believe you have made your point. Maybe they should have a ramjet limit, like a mine limit. And please, may I have coptering tips.
nukchebi0 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 11:27 SpyGuy246 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 13:45 nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:08 A ramjet was obviously designed to be more than just a sniper rifle. Looks like a sniper rifle...scopes like a sniper rifle...shoots like a sniper rifle...sounds like a sniper rifle... It must be a sniper rifle. And since when do fair AA weapons have scopes? And since when are fair AA weapons impossible to outmaneuver, due to their super-fast projectiles? A commando gun that can handle vehicles as well as infantry-a hybrid. Ah, kind of like the God crate? "There's this gun, and it can handle vehicles, and infantry, and aircraft, and it has unlimited range, a scope, and super-fast projectiles. Not only that but it has a 4-shot clip." Is there anything it CAN'T handle? Heavy armor is easy to outrun, even on foot. I suppose the only drawback of the ramjet is that it doesn't harm structures. Otherwise everyone would use them. Oh wait, they already do...
Dover wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 13:35 nukchebi0 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 11:27 SpyGuy246 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 13:45 nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:08 A ramjet was obviously designed to be more than just a sniper rifle. Looks like a sniper rifle...scopes like a sniper rifle...shoots like a sniper rifle...sounds like a sniper rifle... It must be a sniper rifle. And since when do fair AA weapons have scopes? And since when are fair AA weapons impossible to outmaneuver, due to their super-fast projectiles? A commando gun that can handle vehicles as well as infantry-a hybrid. Ah, kind of like the God crate? "There's this gun, and it can handle vehicles, and infantry, and aircraft, and it has unlimited range, a scope, and super-fast projectiles. Not only that but it has a 4-shot clip." Is there anything it CAN'T handle? Heavy armor is easy to outrun, even on foot. I suppose the only drawback of the ramjet is that it doesn't harm structures. Otherwise everyone would use them. Oh wait, they already do... What is the God crate, and what about the APC, they are fast and not harmed.
If rocket soldiers' rockets would properly seek and hit moving aircraft, rockets did a little more damage to all types of armour, and Nod soldiers did the same damage as GDI soldiers, then I believe it would be perfectly balanced to reduce n00bjet damage against light armour to exactly that of the 500 sniper's. There wouldn't be problems (or at least no more problems than there are now) with MRLS, Artillery or the orca/apache because there would be RELIABLE rocket soldiers, and if you don't have a HON/Barr (or can't afford a rocket soldier), then standard soldiers -- even the Nod ones -- would do reasonable damage! No misbalance at all, and the game would be more fun for both parties. The problem though is that even with mods that make rockets seek, they absolutely suck at seeking aircraft and NEVER hit moving aircraft (I know this from the trial on the n00bstories server). If they seeked properly and stood a good chance of hitting, they would be fine for the job. I don't believe that a single unit in the game should have so much strength. I'm talking about the ramjet here. Without ramjets, aircraft would indeed be more powerful, ***but not with the proposed changes above***. Those chances would balance everything.
I hope you're not suggesting that everyone use APCs. That would be the absolute worst, most boring game ever. And APC drivers, 75% of the time, annoy me to no end. flyingfox (or Aircraftkiller), do you think there would be a way to make rocket launchers track like the Soviet AA missiles in RenAlert? Those seemed to track aircraft well.
flyingfox wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 14:54 If rocket soldiers' rockets would properly seek and hit moving aircraft, rockets did a little more damage to all types of armour, and Nod soldiers did the same damage as GDI soldiers, then I believe it would be perfectly balanced to reduce n00bjet damage against light armour to exactly that of the 500 sniper's. There wouldn't be problems (or at least no more problems than there are now) with MRLS, Artillery or the orca/apache because there would be RELIABLE rocket soldiers, and if you don't have a HON/Barr (or can't afford a rocket soldier), then standard soldiers -- even the Nod ones -- would do reasonable damage! No misbalance at all, and the game would be more fun for both parties. The problem though is that even with mods that make rockets seek, they absolutely suck at seeking aircraft and NEVER hit moving aircraft (I know this from the trial on the n00bstories server). If they seeked properly and stood a good chance of hitting, they would be fine for the job. I don't believe that a single unit in the game should have so much strength. I'm talking about the ramjet here. Without ramjets, aircraft would indeed be more powerful, ***but not with the proposed changes above***. Those chances would balance everything. You should design a game.
The rocket launchers in APB already do track. Secondary fire shoots a rocket that's faster and homes onto targets, but does slightly less damage.
mrpirate wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 00:54 havoc9826 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 00:11 Sniper_De7 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 19:16 Not really, Westwood just threw it in there to counter copters First of all, that's inaccurate. The Ramjet Rifle was in the multiplayer game before the 1.030 patch introduced the flying vehicles to multiplayer a month and a half after the game's release. It was also used by one Black Hand Sniper on top of the Comm Center in the second to last mission of singleplayer. Unless you have evidence that EA was planning, before crunch time, to have Westwood finish user-operated flying vehicles after the game's release, that argument is shot down. If I remember correctly Westwood wasn't able to get seeking rockets to work in time for release with the 1.015 or whatever patch added aircraft, so the Ramjet was used as an anti-aircraft gun. Perhaps someone like Aircraftkiller who actually knows what they're talking about can clear this up because my memory is spotty. During the flying beta test, Devinoch had told us that n00b cannons were made the principal means of AA fire because WS didn't have the time to make missile equipped units lock on to targets properly. This is where everyone arguing for the n00b cannon is wrong; so please, shut up about it. I've been around since long before all of you were, in all the beta tests. I know exactly what happened, so if you want to tell me that n00b cannon Ramjet Rifles are balanced then you'd better start telling me that the sky is green, because I'm not going to believe either...
Dover wrote on Fri, 21 April 2006 11:17 The rocket launchers in APB already do track. Secondary fire shoots a rocket that's faster and homes onto targets, but does slightly less damage. Huh. Did not know that. Of course, I've yet to do real multiplayer with it. I need to learn how to find APB servers on GameSpy or somewhere.
There are no APB servers on Gamespy, and there probably never will be.
Kind of weird, the homing rockets in APB home to everything, not just aircraft. Makes them useful for elimating tiny infantry from far away, but it makes me question the realism, and the usefulness of the regular shot...
its fair.those people that complain about it are n00bs.they cant go up there kill all those snipers or run them over.NOOO!!have to always complain about stuff.I never complain about that stuff.and if they're not good enough to operate the orcas or choppers y dont they just stop giving the other team points!!!
ripred999 wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 11:25 its fair.those people that complain about it are n00bs.they cant go up there kill all those snipers or run them over.NOOO!!have to always complain about stuff.I never complain about that stuff.and if they're not good enough to operate the orcas or choppers y dont they just stop giving the other team points!!! You forgot to put capslock on........sucker
Sniper_De7 wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 14:22 You forgot to put capslock on........sucker but he didn't forget to doublepost -.-
Gawd, stop whining about ramjets and play, if you cant handle them you suck. I use ramjets from time to time, but only against infantry and air units, the exception of course if is if i come under fire from ground vehicles, i dont know why ppl are so obsessed with points, the important part to me is to defend the base by any methods needed. And heres a tip for lowering the chance of being shot out of the sky, keep low, close to the ground, at least on walls. it all comes down to proper teamwork, a good team can defeat anyone and anything. So in my opinion anyone who whines over ramjets, SUCK!, and i dont consider ramjets always that good, my goal is to destroy the enemy base, that is the ultimate victory, anything else is to me a stalemate.
ok soo many of you people are always complaining about the ramjet whaa it does too mush to my heli whaaaa you cant dodge it if all you are going to do is sit at your computer and complain about it maybe you shouldnt play ren.like if u cant handle it dont play.sure it can be annoying to get sniped while your in a heli but if you are getting sniped maybe u shouldnt be using one at that point in time. get over the noobjet damage and play the god damn game
Tip: 1.) Sneak in and take out barracks 2.) assault with Heli's Its as simple as that. or take out the PP wich makes havoc's and sakuras twice as expensive.
By the time you had 7 copters they'd have enough for n00bjets not to mention some of their own. This is why usually not many people do this kind of rush, especially since most people just let the base defences hit them and have no idea of how to fly. assuming you were thinking mainly of stopping Havocs, seeing as how you mentioned killing the barracks but not the hand or anything, you might also note that 3(4 is more realistic) out of the 7 orcas would die rushing the powerplant. Probably one or two more would die from the ob behind the powerplant because they don't know how to cover from it.. Quote: During the flying beta test, Devinoch had told us that n00b cannons were made the principal means of AA fire because WS didn't have the time to make missile equipped units lock on to targets properly. This is where everyone arguing for the n00b cannon is wrong; so please, shut up about it. I've been around since long before all of you were, in all the beta tests. I know exactly what happened, so if you want to tell me that n00b cannon Ramjet Rifles are balanced then you'd better start telling me that the sky is green, because I'm not going to believe either... The thread should have ended after this, so I'll just repost it.
It was made so.Deal with it.You cant change anything by complaining about it.Those who complain are n00bs. PS:DROP IT!!!!!!!!!
I suppose "complaining about it" never got far with blacks and women rights? Besides, whose dictionary are you using for the definition of n00b? If it's yours, you clearly aren't qualified to be making a dictionary. If it's not yours, then they aren't qualified to be making a dictionary. How in God's name is complaining anything related to playing the game for over a large amount and still sucking? Can you please clarify? No? That's a fucking shame. Now can you shut up before making more non-sensical statements? Thank you in advance, buster.
my suggestion to balance the n00bjet would be to reduce the damage... so that if you hit a basic soldier with full health, after a bodyshot he got 1hp left... so this prevent people from killwhoring bases without basedefense... (remember walls without barracks, funny to have 7 havocs up the mesa who kills everything in sight...but not for Nod) but against orcas/apaches? uhm yes its a hard (maybe impossible to beat enemy) but without the n00bjet someone have to weaken air...or how do you want to stop a orcafleet crushing your base? with pistols?
I like ramjet rifles I find them to be balanced with positive and negative points I dont see what you are all bitching about tbh
i totaly agree with you
You don't see anything wrong because you probably don't use a copter that much, especially after, "I like ramjets". the idea that two people who suck monsterously at the game can buy two havocs/sakuras and can kill a copter with ease unless the copter knows what he's doing (and the snipers don't, which is usually the case) Let me put it to ya this way. If I go out on field with a med tank, I have a good chance of killing 2-3 light tanks if they suck. Why? Because they have no skill and can't shoot at me and usually miss. Now in the case when fighting the noobjet, it takes absolutely *no* skill to shoot a vehicle, (this goes double for arties/mrls by the way, which has no valid reason for doing damage against it, and no one can refute) It takes no skill to shoot at the vehicle because of two things: It fires instantly, and it has unlimited range. Now, if it took an ounce of skill to use a noobjet (ie the idea that they either have to fire more shots (less-damaging noobjet), or have to lead their shots (slow-firing noobjet)) Have a gun do all of these and any random person can be "good" just because *anyone* can use it. Care to refute any of this, red? Because I'd like for you to come out of your veil and show how smart you really are. That is of course if you already are unveiled @ Wodka, if people actually had as much "teamwork" as getting 5 noobjets, they can be sure to get 5 PICs / Raves, which would dessimate any copter(Which they won't do, by the way, because they won't have that super range of shooting copters from the other side of the map so they'll probably cry and leave the game since they can't use anything but noobjets). Aside from that, APCs, tanks, and (gasp) another orca/apache is fine enough to do the job, plus, i wasn't saying making the damage against copters be null and void, I was saying for it to do less damage (more like the ramjets do 500sniper damage whilst the 500snipers did the null and void damage. Every bit of armour you take off a copter helps another copter, so it would be good anti air, just it's not going to damage and kill copters near-instantly.
Aircraftkiller basically said what we need to know: the designers of the game thought this was needed to make it balanced, who are we to say it isn't? OK, they said they put it in because there was nothing better but they still decided it had to be in for balance reasons. Orca/apache are way overpowered anyway.
Quote: Aircraftkiller basically said what we need to know: the designers of the game thought this was needed to make it balanced, who are we to say it isn't? OK, they said they put it in because there was nothing better but they still decided it had to be in for balance reasons. Orca/apache are way overpowered anyway. Who are we to say it isn't balanced? We're the players of the game. They(ramjets) were rushed and honestly, I don't think Westwood thought people would abuse noobjets to get 1000s of points and having 5 of them on one team shooting everything and anything in sight to get a score and thus be "better" But like I've ALREADY FUCKING SAID.(Read the topic, PLEASE) A unit can be anti-whatever but it doesn't have to do massive damage/unlimited range/shoot instantly. That's like saying, well, copters are too strong so we'll put in a unit that kills copters in one hit. Unbalanced? Yes. The idea is not to take away the anti-air (noobjets) but lower the aspects of the noobjet so that it doesn't make it so easy to destroy one. I'm *FINE* with it being anti-air but it's way too overpowered when any dimwitted fool being new to this game (or spent the entirety of whatever he's played so far) and using noobjets. Aside from that, tanks aren't that *horrible* at killing copters, you just need to know how to aim them. (ie have good skill) The average noob doesn't know how to fly a copter, thus, even a tank, apc, or a soldier can kill a copter. Can't say this when that same noob who can't copter grabs a ramjet and shoots copters out of the sky, can you? Why? because it doesn't take a bit of skill to do it.
I read the topic, you'll even notice if you scroll back that i made regular comments in it. An i'm not trying my best to make people change their opinion, unlike some persons around here
Yeah, damn people trying to correct things that are wrong.
But again, this debate is 100% pointless, the ramjets are part of the game, and they do the damage they do, that is never going to change, so i suggest you stop whining and play, or find a server that has different settings for them
Alexraptor wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 10:16 that is never going to change Quote: server that has different settings for them you know, these two contradict eachother
Sniper_De7 wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 10:51 Yeah, damn people trying to correct things that are wrong. That's the whole point, for me and for others: it is not wrong. That's just your personal opinion you try to put us on with.