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The Universe *similar to time travel thread*
Now, I'm sure I'll hear lots of great opinions and explanations/theories from you all. What has been really getting to my head latley is the Universe. If you imagine, what was here before the universe? Did the universe just start existing? or was something else involved. Can you imagine the universe just always being there, that really boggles my mind. Is there an edge to the universe? if you reach the edge will you appear on the other side like in a Mario game
Re: The Universe *similar to time travel thread*
I heard somwhere the sun was created by a large explosion in space. Although i could be rong. And the earth was a giant rock that started out on fire before it rained and flooded the entire thing.
The History of Creation 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 So the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. 1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. 4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; 6 but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. 8 The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. 9 And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. 10 Now a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it parted and became four riverheads. 11 The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one which skirts the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good. Bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one which goes around the whole land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is Hiddekel; it is the one which goes toward the east of Assyria. The fourth river is the Euphrates. 15 Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” 18 And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” 19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. 23 And Adam said: “This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. That about explains my beliefs.
j_ball430 wrote on Mon, 10 October 2005 17:36 The History of Creation 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 So the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. 1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. 4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; 6 but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. 8 The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. 9 And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. 10 Now a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it parted and became four riverheads. 11 The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one which skirts the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good. Bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one which goes around the whole land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is Hiddekel; it is the one which goes toward the east of Assyria. The fourth river is the Euphrates. 15 Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” 18 And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” 19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. 23 And Adam said: “This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. That about explains my beliefs. I agree, thats the only thing that makes sence to me. I mean how can there be nothing and then something blows up. What is there to blow up. God has always been there and always will. The reason we dont understand it is because he is so great and we are....well .....so small.
http://www.nwcreation.net/videos/a_question_of_origins.html I found this site to be very insightful.
I believe in God on top of everything. However, here's something to think about: Not IF, but WHEN extraterrestrial life is discovered (because we're obviously not the only ones in the universe...that'll be a huge waste of space,) wouldn't that kill a lot of people's fate in God? Since on the Bible, it only talks about God creating life on Earth. My other thought is that God put the stars so far away to torment men knowing they'll never be able to reach 'em. What if, space does have an edge, but all the bends in space prevent anyone [capable of FTL travel] from reaching it?
There is a whole lot of space out there, but it's not obvious whether or not there is other life. Which takes us back to your "when" and "if" question. It is indeed an "if" question. Unless you have proof that they do exist (none of this "I saw it on the Discovery Channel" crap) then it's not totaly obvious.
prox wrote on Mon, 10 October 2005 20:27 Not IF, but WHEN extraterrestrial life is discovered (because we're obviously not the only ones in the universe...that'll be a huge waste of space,) wouldn't that kill a lot of people's fate in God? Since on the Bible, it only talks about God creating life on Earth. Who knows...I know people that truly believe that dinosaurs are a hoax. That they never existed. That all of the fossils and bones in museums and unearthed every month are all a conspiracy by satan. You see the bible doesn't mention dinosaurs, or cavemen, so they couldn't have existed.
Have you ever wondered if somewhere far away aliens were in the same situation as us? Wars,The planet. Maybe they have there own gods and everything else.
Quote: The History of Creation 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 So the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. 1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. 4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; 6 but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. 8 The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. 9 And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. 10 Now a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it parted and became four riverheads. 11 The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one which skirts the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good. Bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one which goes around the whole land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is Hiddekel; it is the one which goes toward the east of Assyria. The fourth river is the Euphrates. 15 Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” 18 And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” 19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. 23 And Adam said: “This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. That about explains my beliefs. Right on man! Anyway, to me, we are not the only ones in space...Even if God didn't mention "aliens" in the bible, there has to be more out there than us. What I think, is that God wants us to find out ourselves over time. All that universe, all the other planets, an unlimited amount of questions that you can ask. Not every question is answerable, nor explainable. Someday, IF, we find "aliens", that would be cool. But truly, I doubt we ever will, we will probobly go into a nuclear war and destroy ourselves and the earth before that ever happens.
Oh god, half of are you are jesus loving faggots blinded by religion.
What if we are nothing but units of memory on God's computer screen. I am just kidding of course. Forgive the pun but I am going to play Devil's Advocate here. If God exists, what created him? did he just come from no where?
gbull wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 11:32 If God exists, what created him? did he just come from no where? JeepRubi wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 11:32 God has always been there and always will. ------------------------------------------------ Mindtzar wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 10:29 Oh god, half of are you are jesus loving faggots blinded by religion. you asked a question we gave you an anser now if you dont like it thats your fault.
Mindtzar wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 11:29 Oh god, half of are you are jesus loving faggots blinded by religion. What's your religion? Personally, I belong to The Immaculate Church Of Maybe. Maybe.
I believe that the universe is a gigantic sphere. That there is no 'edge'. Say you travel directly off of earth, eventually you will end back to your orginal start point. (well, the other side of earth, but DIRECTLY the other side.) Once while I was high, I thought about MIB and how the universe was on the kitty's necklace? Well I thought, "What if the universe is nothing but a small ball on some creature's necklace? A 'Jewel' if you will, that is common and given to other creatures as gifts or fashion. What if WE are just some mirco-mirco-mirco organism?" VERY trippy.
SuperMidget wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 12:55 I believe that the universe is a gigantic sphere. That there is no 'edge'. Say you travel directly off of earth, eventually you will end back to your orginal start point. (well, the other side of earth, but DIRECTLY the other side.) Once while I was high, I thought about MIB and how the universe was on the kitty's necklace? Well I thought, "What if the universe is nothing but a small ball on some creature's necklace? A 'Jewel' if you will, that is common and given to other creatures as gifts or fashion. What if WE are just some mirco-mirco-mirco organism?" VERY trippy. Then my friend, we are small/insignificant and doomed to be a plaything of some animals. WHo knows, looking back at futurama, the universe could be a box in our living room. When you think of a micro organism, IF they had brains, im sure they would think "hey the universe is all around me" Well, no shit sherlock. But to an organism that small, the universe seems bigger then it really is. Who knows, maybe were so small compared to big things that people look at us like micro organisms. Hmm raises Eyebrows. But still, wrong. Lol, we know the universe to exist and not be on an animals necklace.
I think there has to be a god, or something like that. Something so powerfull that it had to create itself. Something that created space. It's really strange to imagine that, because, it had to create itself in a "place" where was no space, light, collors. basicly, It had to create itself in "nothing". Also, I think there is a differance between god and religion. I dislike religion, I would nearly say I hate religion. Religion killed more people than cancer. Wars get started cause of religion. (and oil).
cheekay77 wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 13:17 SuperMidget wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 12:55 I believe that the universe is a gigantic sphere. That there is no 'edge'. Say you travel directly off of earth, eventually you will end back to your orginal start point. (well, the other side of earth, but DIRECTLY the other side.) Once while I was high, I thought about MIB and how the universe was on the kitty's necklace? Well I thought, "What if the universe is nothing but a small ball on some creature's necklace? A 'Jewel' if you will, that is common and given to other creatures as gifts or fashion. What if WE are just some mirco-mirco-mirco organism?" VERY trippy. Then my friend, we are small/insignificant and doomed to be a plaything of some animals. WHo knows, looking back at futurama, the universe could be a box in our living room. When you think of a micro organism, IF they had brains, im sure they would think "hey the universe is all around me" Well, no shit sherlock. But to an organism that small, the universe seems bigger then it really is. Who knows, maybe were so small compared to big things that people look at us like micro organisms. Hmm raises Eyebrows. But still, wrong. Lol, we know the universe to exist and not be on an animals necklace. But HOW do we know for sure? It's too big for us to know this. I'm not intending that my drug-induced hallicunation is fact, I was merely sharing some crazy experience I once had
The universe is certainly an interesting topic to ponder while on psychedelics; however, the idea that MIB presents doesn't really answer any questions, since now all the original questions about our universe apply to the kitty with the necklace.
bigejoe14 wrote on Mon, 10 October 2005 22:50 There is a whole lot of space out there, but it's not obvious whether or not there is other life. Which takes us back to your "when" and "if" question. It is indeed an "if" question. Unless you have proof that they do exist (none of this "I saw it on the Discovery Channel" crap) then it's not totaly obvious. Think about all of that space, billions and billions of stars and thousands of galaxies. It's not an IF, It's a WHEN. Most definetly not in our lifetime ( ,) maybe not in our son's, but maybe in our grandson's.
Mindtzar wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 11:29 Oh god, half of are you are jesus loving faggots blinded by religion. I was once like you. Until i found jesus. Hehe
prox, you say you believe in God but you still don't believe the stuff in the Bible. At least not all of it, which would lead to a question of why would you believe some parts and not all? Who gets to decide what parts are true and what aren't? I believe that this topic will turn into a flame war at some point. All topics like this on all forums end up like that. Well, if they're not locked by moderators that is. We have a good start with this comment: Quote: Oh god, half of are you are jesus loving faggots blinded by religion. And it was YOU who started the topic...I can't believe you actually said that...as if you didn't know religion would be one of the sides taken here...
pulverizer wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 12:29 Something so powerfull that it had to create itself. You dont get it. How many times do i have to say it. God did not create himseld and nothing created him. God has ALWAYS existed.
Jeep Rubi wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 16:06 pulverizer wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 12:29 Something so powerfull that it had to create itself. You dont get it. How many times do i have to say it. God did not create himseld and nothing created him. God has ALWAYS existed. Circular Logic, Thats impossible. Yes, and by being impossible, its circular logic again.
Mindtzar wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 12:29 Oh god, half of are you are jesus loving faggots blinded by religion. Remember: The Bible is an INTERPRETATION. Thats not exactly how it went down. Obviously. I believe in God, because when you consider that all we are is a bunch of chemicals, I don't see how things like our eyes, and SENTIENCE can be just random occurrences.
Oblivion165 wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 17:08 Jeep Rubi wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 16:06 pulverizer wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 12:29 Something so powerfull that it had to create itself. You dont get it. How many times do i have to say it. God did not create himseld and nothing created him. God has ALWAYS existed. Circular Logic, Thats impossible. Yes, and by being impossible, its circular logic again. Thats the laws of fisics in OUR world remember. And just incase you forgot god made our world. He made it so everything has a start and an end in our world but that is not the same in his.
Mark, stop being such a closed-minded fuck. We don't force you to believe in a religion, so stop bashing us because we take a side. You're the nitwit flaming us for believing in something other than just some theory that random events took place that somehow spawned atoms, elements, molecules, life, etc... You believe what you will, and I will do the same. You created this thread to discuss what we believe happened, and that's exactly what we're doing. Now, shut the fuck up and contribute to your own thread. Personally, I don't like the idea of religions, either. They tend to cause nothing but troubles and disagreements between denominations of the same basic faith. That's what happens in Christianity. I believe what the Bible says, and I listen to the Bible and interpret it myself rather than let some random religion tell me how I'm supposed to interpret it. I personally believe that the universe is infinite. Just as I believe God is infinite. I don't know if I believe in E.T. If there are other life forms like ours, I highly doubt that God made them any more capable of spanning the universe than we are. Which is why I don't believe that UFOs really exist. If there are other advanced life forms such as ours, I believe that they are just as inferior as we are and aren't capable of making contact with us. As the Bible states, God created us in His own image. I don't think that if He made any other life forms that he would make them any more intelligent than ours. He'd either create them in His image as He did with us, which would leave one to believe that "His image" is absolute, and there really are no inferiors or superiors when we're discussing His image, or He wouldn't create them in His image, which would lead us to believe that they would be, in fact, INFERIOR to us. Thus making contact with each other even more grim.
RTsa wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 15:42 prox, you say you believe in God but you still don't believe the stuff in the Bible. At least not all of it, which would lead to a question of why would you believe some parts and not all? Who gets to decide what parts are true and what aren't? I believe that this topic will turn into a flame war at some point. All topics like this on all forums end up like that. Well, if they're not locked by moderators that is. We have a good start with this comment: Quote: Oh god, half of are you are jesus loving faggots blinded by religion. And it was YOU who started the topic...I can't believe you actually said that...as if you didn't know religion would be one of the sides taken here... Yeah, I know but I was really stupid forgetting that people would bring religion into it. I honestly expected it to stay untainted by religion, didn't quite realise how many people consider themselves religious. Oh well.
Jeep Rubi wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 16:15 Thats the laws of fisics in OUR world remember. And just incase you forgot god made our world. He made it so everything has a start and an end in our world but that is not the same in his. I am going to take your views on "fisics" wish a grain of salt. Not that I would ever accuse you of something like--oh, let's say--having no idea what you're talking about.
mrpirate wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 17:13 Jeep Rubi wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 16:15 Thats the laws of fisics in OUR world remember. And just incase you forgot god made our world. He made it so everything has a start and an end in our world but that is not the same in his. I am going to take your views on "fisics" wish a grain of salt. Not that I would ever accuse you of something like--oh, let's say--having no idea what you're talking about. 10 points to you for owning a religious jerk.
Mindtzar wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 16:24 mrpirate wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 17:13 Jeep Rubi wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 16:15 Thats the laws of fisics in OUR world remember. And just incase you forgot god made our world. He made it so everything has a start and an end in our world but that is not the same in his. I am going to take your views on "fisics" wish a grain of salt. Not that I would ever accuse you of something like--oh, let's say--having no idea what you're talking about. 10 points to you for owning a religious jerk. 10 arrogance points to you for being an anti-religious jerk.
RTsa wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 15:42 prox, you say you believe in God but you still don't believe the stuff in the Bible. At least not all of it, which would lead to a question of why would you believe some parts and not all? Who gets to decide what parts are true and what aren't? I believe that this topic will turn into a flame war at some point. All topics like this on all forums end up like that. Well, if they're not locked by moderators that is. We have a good start with this comment: Quote: Oh god, half of are you are jesus loving faggots blinded by religion. And it was YOU who started the topic...I can't believe you actually said that...as if you didn't know religion would be one of the sides taken here... Using Blazer's info a bit: Do you believe in dinosaurs?
prox wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 17:56 Using Blazer's info a bit: Do you believe in dinosaurs? Heh are you one of those people who think dinosaurs are a hoax? That every fossil found is a hoax or trick by satan, because according to the bible, nothing is that old, and if the bible doesn't mention it, then it didn't happen? These hoaxes happen every day, here's the latest one: http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/10/11/hobbit.jaw.ap/ind ex.html Oh noes, the bible didn't mention anything like that....its a trick by sataaannnn!!
Actually, in the book of Job, it's quite clear that there are dinosaur-like animals mentioned.
j_ball430 wrote on Mon, 10 October 2005 18:36 The History of Creation 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 So the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. 1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. 4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; 6 but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. 8 The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. 9 And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. 10 Now a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it parted and became four riverheads. 11 The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one which skirts the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good. Bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one which goes around the whole land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is Hiddekel; it is the one which goes toward the east of Assyria. The fourth river is the Euphrates. 15 Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” 18 And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” 19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. 23 And Adam said: “This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. That about explains my beliefs. Thats explains my belief as well . But these are the scientific theories. There are 2 that i know of: 1st is the 'Big Bang Theory'. This basically says that at some point in time there was huge explosion which created matter. It also says that this is the reason why galaxies are speeding away from each other, as a result from the explosion. This theory also says that soon or "it may have already started", that the explosion is now starting to implode and everything will draw to a point and crunch again, and there will be another explosion. The other theory is the 'steady state theory'. Which basically says the universe has always existed. I know its a spooky thought, but i personally would not think about it unless i was doing research ont he universe.
Blazer wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 19:20 prox wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 17:56 Using Blazer's info a bit: Do you believe in dinosaurs? Heh are you one of those people who think dinosaurs are a hoax? That every fossil found is a hoax or trick by satan, because according to the bible, nothing is that old, and if the bible doesn't mention it, then it didn't happen? These hoaxes happen every day, here's the latest one: http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/10/11/hobbit.jaw.ap/ind ex.html Oh noes, the bible didn't mention anything like that....its a trick by sataaannnn!! No, I was actually asking him if he believed in dinosaurs to see if he disagreed with some of the Bible too . Nice try, though.
Blazer wrote on Mon, 10 October 2005 21:59 prox wrote on Mon, 10 October 2005 20:27 Not IF, but WHEN extraterrestrial life is discovered (because we're obviously not the only ones in the universe...that'll be a huge waste of space,) wouldn't that kill a lot of people's fate in God? Since on the Bible, it only talks about God creating life on Earth. Who knows...I know people that truly believe that dinosaurs are a hoax. That they never existed. That all of the fossils and bones in museums and unearthed every month are all a conspiracy by satan. You see the bible doesn't mention dinosaurs, or cavemen, so they couldn't have existed. For some reason I never thought of dinosaurs as never actually existing. It's interesting to think about that. Remember that science isn't 100% correct, and that we could be wrong about so many things... things we discovered in space, and we could be COMPLETELY wrong about what we found out about dinosaurs. It's scary to think about that. Definitely when humans seem to really dislike change when they are really used to something. I'm not really freaked out about thinking about that, but it does set off something in my mind..
So some of you believe that as soon as Man first walked the Earth, they immiediately knew how to speak properly, and knew how to use tools? How would this be possible? Look at it like this: We have to teach our children to speak properly, and to use tools. However, in your fractured, not incorrect just fractured, belief, we have always knoqn how to speak and converse, aswell as use tools. Alright the tools part maybe not, but the speach part, yes, you do believe in this, correct? This is why I believe in the Evolution theory, that we all evolved from one thing or the other, and we eventually began to implement tools and speach slowly, until we reached this current point in time. For some reason I haven't been able to finish my really serious posts, so this is a fractured post. Stupid sidetracking computer...
"Jeep Rubi" God has always been there and always will. When did always begin? Time had to have a beggining. Again, I'm not saying God does not exist, but what started creation? In my mind, something cannot come from nothing, be it physical or otherwise. It is my belief that it is above human reasoning. We will never truly know what started it all.
gbull wrote on Wed, 12 October 2005 09:47 "Jeep Rubi" God has always been there and always will. When did always begin? Time had to have a beggining. Again, I'm not saying God does not exist, but what started creation? In my mind, something cannot come from nothing, be it physical or otherwise. It is my belief that it is above human reasoning. We will never truly know what started it all. Yeah I know what you mean. There had to be a beginning. and what was there BEFORE the beginning? Nothing I think. It's really strange to imagine what "nothing" is. It has no shape, Size, collor (not white or black, nor invisible) etc. Then there was something in Nothing which was created or created itself. I don't realy care what happend after that. But what happend before all that can bother the hell out of me.
nothing is black why? black is when there is no light so, if there is no light in nothing, it must be black
Nightma12 wrote on Wed, 12 October 2005 11:50 nothing is black why? black is when there is no light so, if there is no light in nothing, it must be black well, No... Nothing has no size or space or collors. It cannot contain any collers eighter I think. well it drives you nuts if you think to long about it.
Imagine if you will an empty nothingness, no colors, sound, mass, or anything. Now the universe is created by God, "Let there be Light" in a soundless nothing light is created, which I am assuming took a good deal of energy, it is safe to assume that this is the origin of the Big Bang. and if sound was created the same way the sudden noise of nothing would seem pretty loud. Hope I am making myself clear. Edit. Btw Black is the lack of color but it is still something. When you try to imagine nothing, drop the color black from the equation and you see nothing. That will warp your brain
Two more possible speculations: 1. Some things (such as the nature of the universe) are beyond our comprehension. This doesn't sit well with us, as we like to think that our intellect is the greatest in the universe, and that there is nothing that we cannot figure out, given some time to analyze things. What if some things are beyond us, no matter how hard we may try to understand them? 2. We define reality. What if we, either singly or as a whole, subconsciously or via a process that we don't understand, create our reality around us? We decide that the universe is so large that we cannot understand it, so we cannot. What if all we need to achieve anything is to really believe? I don't mean believe like "okay I'm going to believe now *brow furrows*"...I mean really truly believe, just like we believe that what we see, hear, feel, smell, etc is real. Do we believe it is real because we see and feel it, or do we see and feel it because we believe it is real Just some things to think about
gbull wrote on Wed, 12 October 2005 09:47 In my mind, something cannot come from nothing, be it physical or otherwise. Hehe...I just have to say something... So, something cannot come from nothing. This means Big Bang can't be true either. Where did it come from? Physical stuff had to come from somewhere...so even if you believe in Big Bang - Big Crunch theory..it had to come from somewhere! Didn't really help the evolutionists, though it's just your opinion. I have to say I disagree with you. Why am I here if I couldn't have come from anywhere? Quote: Using Blazer's info a bit: Do you believe in dinosaurs? Yes, I do. If you read the Bible. Job's book or whatever it's called in English, you'll find stuff about Behemoths and some Sea Serpent kind of thing...can't remember the name of it. And they're not the kind of behemoths you find in Heroes of Might and Magic. Their description is very near to a dragon or a dinosaur. If you read some 'poor' translation, you'll find it says hippopotamus..but you'll see they're not hippos if you read the desscriptions. (a BIG tail; breathing fire or something like that) And note, to you: I didn't say I'm a fundamentalist. So you shouldn't assume that. I probably would be a "jesus loving faggot blinded by religion" to some of you, but I think I have some senses left To tell you the truth, I haven't really made my mind about all this yet. I'm only 18, and when I learn more about the scientific side of this, I might be able to decide. For now, I just evaluate and participate in discussions like this. On BOTH sides usually, but we'll see
j_ball430 wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 18:29 Actually, in the book of Job, it's quite clear that there are dinosaur-like animals mentioned. I already mentioned Job.
Yeah, and I explained it a bit more edit: Quote: Heh are you one of those people who think dinosaurs are a hoax? That every fossil found is a hoax or trick by satan, because according to the bible, nothing is that old, and if the bible doesn't mention it, then it didn't happen? These hoaxes happen every day, here's the latest one: http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/10/11/hobbit.jaw.ap/ind ex.html Oh noes, the bible didn't mention anything like that....its a trick by sataaannnn!! Wink Scientific discoveries are almost always reported out loud, so people think something great has been discovered. A few months/years later, when they're proven not to be true, there's only a small text somewhere in little print at the bottom of a page. (NOTE: I'm not saying EVERY SINGLE discovery is false) For example, someone found the 'missing part in human evolution'. It was a jaw or something. Later someone noticed the human jaw was actually just a bone from a somewhat mutated pig. The edit in short: Don't believe everything they announce right away. Think about it a bit and see what arguments are against it and so on. If it still stands in five years, it just might be true, or maybe not.
"RTSa" Hehe...I just have to say something... So, something cannot come from nothing. This means Big Bang can't be true either. Where did it come from? Physical stuff had to come from somewhere...so even if you believe in Big Bang - Big Crunch theory..it had to come from somewhere! Didn't really help the evolutionists, though it's just your opinion. I have to say I disagree with you. Why am I here if I couldn't have come from anywhere? Thats part of what I was getting at. It's beyond our comprehension.
pulverizer wrote on Wed, 12 October 2005 11:47 Yeah I know what you mean. There had to be a beginning. and what was there BEFORE the beginning? Nothing I think. It's really strange to imagine what "nothing" is. It has no shape, Size, collor (not white or black, nor invisible) etc. Then there was something in Nothing which was created or created itself. I don't realy care what happend after that. But what happend before all that can bother the hell out of me. In our minds we can't comprehend the fact of something always existing, just like trying to understand infinity. God has always been there, and just because we think there HAS to be a beginning doesn't mean there really was one, it's just that our minds are too puny to understand that concept. It is in fact infinity. Think of it like trying to understand infinity, but just because it is very difficult to comprehend doesn't mean there must be an end in space and that nothing is infinite.
"infinity" and the concept "always existing" are not comparable. What's so difficult about understanding infinity? as numbers go up you'll create more number digits and so on and so on... Regardless, can't you technically say that everything has always existed? (and i don't mean new species i mean solar systems and planets) why would it necessarily have to be a supreme being that's "always existed". It's not much of an argument and it doesn't get anyone out of explaining how god would've been made. now since the universe as we know it is huge, i don't think getting life from the inanimate is so entirely impossible since given the large amoung of time the universe has been here and the large space it has. one chance of life happening out of the entire universe in the span of its time is not so completely proposterous of an idea. I mean if the universe if infinity big, is it that hard to believe that at least one planet has life?
Sniper_De7 "infinity" and the concept "always existing" are not comparable. What's so difficult about understanding infinity? as numbers go up you'll create more number digits and so on and so on... I can tell you didn't think about my post very much when you read it. For humans, understanding how space goes on forever is incredibly difficult. That's infinity, and that's how it's comparable to "always existing". Please don't respond to that with something like "What's so difficult about understanding how space goes on forever? It just goes on forever, that's easy to understand...", because that would be a stupid response that wasn't thought out very well at all. Sniper_De7 Regardless, can't you technically say that everything has always existed? (and i don't mean new species i mean solar systems and planets) why would it necessarily have to be a supreme being that's "always existed". It's not much of an argument and it doesn't get anyone out of explaining how god would've been made. Of course it doesn't make sense, which proves my point. We aren't the most advanced intelligent beings, as we like to think we are. I believe in the Bible, and the Bible says that God has always existed. Just because we think it's impossible for something to always be there doesn't mean it HAD to be made. Again, we are not capable of understanding that. You can't make a logical argument out of it, but God can.
The way I look at space is that you have nothingness and in this nothingness you have planets, comets, and suns, etc.. The way i see space, it seems understandable. i don't know how to explain it well, but i can try. nothingness is just "nothing" and you fill in that void with planets and objects. there may come a point where all you see is nothingness and if you keep going in that direction you get more nothingness forever (For example, from in the middle of nothingness is a big bang* and everything goes away from that point, eventually gravity or other forces might slow them down or stop them in the direction they were going.) another way of going about this is, say there's a guy and a girl. the guy that is holding a pipe that is going straight into the sky says to the girl, "This pipe goes on forever and ever and never stops." The girl replies, "If the pipe goes on forever and ever who is making the *material* that is going up and up." now when you've got something that isn't made of anything this would seem a little bit more understandable because, well, you don't need anything for "nothing" to be created. also my point about saying god has always been there was just to say that it can work in a whole bunch of other instances. who is to say that life hasn't just "always been there" I'm not stating it's impossible for something to have existed forever. thing is, as you can guess i'm not very religious. I believe that something made thousands of years ago not credible. I think that life after death is a fantasy. That back then maybe people needed to have more purpose in life. maybe i'm clearly looking at things completely different than everyone else. * meaning I'm not saying this is what happened
sterps wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 20:16 1st is the 'Big Bang Theory'. This basically says that at some point in time there was huge explosion which created matter. It also says that this is the reason why galaxies are speeding away from each other, as a result from the explosion. This theory also says that soon or "it may have already started", that the explosion is now starting to implode and everything will draw to a point and crunch again, and there will be another explosion. That's actually a few years out of date. http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/hubble_expansion_03041 0.html Quote: At first there was disbelief. Then widespread befuddlement. Then a period of quantification. Now, five years after discovering that the universe is expanding at an ever-faster pace, scientists know exactly how much mysterious "dark energy" is behind the acceleration and have turned to figuring out what it is. The universe is not slowing down as it expands, it is actually speeding up. Instead of a 'Big Crunch' followed by another Big Bang, the universe may accelerate out of control and be obliterated when not even atoms can withstand the stress. But that'll take a few billion years, if it ever happens.
Here is a good site on dimentions and stuff. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/dimensions.html