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I am fairly sure that most have you have been following this situation from time to time over the last week or so. In case you haven't, you can view the entire story here. Should she live, or should she die?
She should live. I've been following this really really closely reading about it and everything. Watching / Reading coverage from both sides of the media and just the family view points as well. I have quite a few reasons why i think she should live but im tired and dont' want to type them right now. My biggest problem though is starving a woman to death. Thats wrong no matter how you put it. Prisinors (Spelt wrong prob) die more peaceful than that. If that was a dog we were starving to death im sure the PETA and all these other groups would be all over it calling for the people doing it to be thrown in jail. I was wondering were a topic was about this.
Let her body rest in peace. Her soul has already left us.
^agreed^ One shouldn't be left to live a life of meaninglessness. If there was anyhope of a full recovery or of fealing any pain i would be agenst it. One thing i am agenst is the use of starvation ( i dunno why i just am)
In 32 seconds we put a man on death row to death for murder & the public are not allowed to see it. We are watching this woman whom has commited no crime being starved to death for weeks in full view of the public. We have the methods backwards!! Lord ... please allow this woman whom has suffered SO much be laid to rest gracefully and quicky. Amen
Terri Shiavo has been braindead for over a decade. The pretend rumor that she hasn't is a lie perpetuated by Republicans in the media in an effort to create yet another wedge issue of morality. What they, and Terri's family have done, is rob the husband of an incredible sum of money keeping a body without a brain on life support. The vast majority of the brain, including the parts governing higher thought processes, has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid. The video tapes CNN and FOX show of her muscles twitching exist because muscles twitch. Terri Schiavo not being dead is scientifically impossible, and no miracle will come around to save her now. Letting the body die from lack of sustenance is not morally wrong to me, since there is no brain to suffer from it. Even if there were, she's under so many drugs she would feel nothing anyways.
SuperFlyingEngi Terri Shiavo has been braindead for over a decade. The pretend rumor that she hasn't is a lie perpetuated by Republicans in the media in an effort to create yet another wedge issue of morality. What they, and Terri's family have done, is rob the husband of an incredible sum of money keeping a body without a brain on life support. The vast majority of the brain, including the parts governing higher thought processes, has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid. The video tapes CNN and FOX show of her muscles twitching exist because muscles twitch. Terri Schiavo not being dead is scientifically impossible, and no miracle will come around to save her now. Letting the body die from lack of sustenance is not morally wrong to me, since there is no brain to suffer from it. Even if there were, she's under so many drugs she would feel nothing anyways. She breathes by herself so her brain IS intact. Medicaid pays for the vast majority of her bills and her husband was awarded 1 million dollars in 1992 due to a malpractice suit, he has been using that to help pay the bills. Her family has been willing to pay for her care for quite some time. There is no reason they need to starve her. Dying from dehydration is a nasty and terrible way to go.
The legal argument at this point is merely a tossing of words between two sides who cannot defend their case. The husband says that she spoke with him regarding this issue (without documentation) over a decade ago. Conversely, the parents obviously contend this with their own asperations of what Terri would want. This means that the legal debate must go into the realm of what makes more sense, as no more than circumstantial evidence can be presented. An interesting thing to note is that there is absolutely no logical basis behind the death decision. Doctors call this woman braindead, and she very well may be. However, her body continues to function to a certain degree. Aside from the fact that the brain is required to control the body in the first place, there is absolutely no scientific evidence to say that Terri's consciousness is in fact dead. In fact, to date there is no evidence to support a definate region of the brain where self-awareness takes place. We have general ideas, we know what can affect it in a peer-to-peer scale (talking, emotions, communication), but we do not know where this originates. Therefore, the purpose of this judgement is to determine the fate of that which all thought originates. That being said, it is no more logical to kill a "brainlive" person than a "braindead" person, as there is no more definable proof that the actual person is dead outside the lack of communication in a tangable way. In essence, someone with Down's Syndrome isn't killed because that person can still speak, learn, and think in a fashion that tells others that he can in the first place. The only difference that we can actually tell with Terri is that she cannot do it in a way we can understand. Does that constatute killing her and not a child with Down's Syndrome, Cerebral Palsy... or even a kid who is completely normal? The logic isn't there, so lets hope they can figure it out in time.
SuperFlyingEngi Terri Shiavo has been braindead for over a decade. The pretend rumor that she hasn't is a lie perpetuated by Republicans in the media in an effort to create yet another wedge issue of morality. "The Republican-controlled media is spreading lies about this woman!" I'm not surprised to hear that coming from you. Those evil Republicans and their "morals"; how dare they try to save this woman's life! Do us all a favor and stop talking. Quote: What they, and Terri's family have done, is rob the husband of an incredible sum of money keeping a body without a brain on life support. You call having only a single feeding tube and probably a catheder (screw spelling) to collect body waste full-blown life support? You must not have ever seen anyone in the ICU in the hospital, or you'd know what true life support is; this woman is not on full-blown life support. Had her husband allowed it, she might have been rehabilitated to the point of feeding herself. Quote: The vast majority of the brain, including the parts governing higher thought processes, has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid. The video tapes CNN and FOX show of her muscles twitching exist because muscles twitch. Terri Schiavo not being dead is scientifically impossible, and no miracle will come around to save her now. So you call her watching and following a balloon held over her head a simple twitching of her eye muscles that just happen to correspond to the movement of the balloon? How about when she smiles when people she recognizes walk into the room? Is that just a simple twitching of muscles? Quote: Letting the body die from lack of sustenance is not morally wrong to me That's because Hitlery Clinton won't allow you to have any morals. Quote: since there is no brain to suffer from it. Even if there were, she's under so many drugs she would feel nothing anyways. To my knowledge, they haven't given her any painkillers since they believe her to be unconcious and not suffering. No brain to suffer from it? What is it, then, that keeps her heart beating; that keeps her lungs breathing; that keeps her kidneys functioning? What is it that makes her smile when her parents enter the room? What is it that makes her make signals that obviously mean, "No," when asked if she wants her feeding tube removed? Why do you support the murder of this woman?
cowmisfit She should live. I've been following this really really closely reading about it and everything. Watching / Reading coverage from both sides of the media and just the family view points as well. I have quite a few reasons why i think she should live but im tired and dont' want to type them right now. My biggest problem though is starving a woman to death. Thats wrong no matter how you put it. Prisinors (Spelt wrong prob) die more peaceful than that. If that was a dog we were starving to death im sure the PETA and all these other groups would be all over it calling for the people doing it to be thrown in jail. I was wondering were a topic was about this. I think she should die. But I was thinking along the same lines as you about them starving her to death. That is just barbaric. Lethal injection is quick and painless. I mean, the needle of a Lethal injection is sterilized before use to reduce discomfort. I hear she can't even feel any pain and that she doesn't know that she is being starved, but it is still barbaric. You lot should check out the video for One by Metallica http://launch.yahoo.com It covers exactly this topic.
...She doesn't feel pain. Quote: No brain to suffer from it? What is it, then, that keeps her heart beating; that keeps her lungs breathing; that keeps her kidneys functioning? What is it that makes her smile when her parents enter the room? What is it that makes her make signals that obviously mean, "No," when asked if she wants her feeding tube removed? She has a brain, but it's in a neurovegetative state. By neurovegetative state, I mean that only her vegetative nervous system is working, this system regulates all invonluntary body activity. Quote: So you call her watching and following a balloon held over her head a simple twitching of her eye muscles that just happen to correspond to the movement of the balloon? How about when she smiles when people she recognizes walk into the room? Is that just a simple twitching of muscles? Where the hell are you getting this from?
One does not cover the topic. One is about a soldier that lost his arms, his legs, was blinded, deafened, and cannot speak. Terri can see, she can hear, and she can move somewhat.
She's not a fucking vegetable. She smiles, and she responds to movement. That's not what I call being brain dead. I honestly think that she has more activity in her brain than most liberals do, and they're not considered brain dead (Yes, I know it's rhetoric, but I felt that this was a perfect time to insert it no matter how incorrect it may be, so fuck off anybody who wants to bitch at me for this comment). The husband has a girlfriend with two kids from that girlfriend, he just wants his wife to be out of the way, collect the money from her death, and then live happily ever after with his girlfriend. Sure, he hasn't come out and said that, but who can deny that being a motive? Now, let's say she IS brain dead, starving the woman is horrible. It's a slow process, and just wrong. I just can't see how letting this woman starve is even an option. I swear, this world gets stupider and stupider by the fucking day. Next week animals will be put in front of humans in importance and we'll all be eating out of dog dishes because some "revolutionary" "thinkers" decide that it'd be a great way to support our pets and whatnot bullshit.
Aircraftkiller a.k.a. ACK One does not cover the topic. One is about a soldier that lost his arms, his legs, was blinded, deafened, and cannot speak. Terri can see, she can hear, and she can move somewhat. She can move? She can hear alright, but it doesn't really make a difference seeing as she can't communicate... That soldier and Terri ended up in a very similar situation... Anyway I had no clue that she could move at all...
j_ball430 She's not a fucking vegetable. She smiles, and she responds to movement. That's not what I call being brain dead. I honestly think that she has more activity in her brain than most liberals do, and they're not considered brain dead (Yes, I know it's rhetoric, but I felt that this was a perfect time to insert it no matter how incorrect it may be, so fuck off anybody who wants to bitch at me for this comment). LOL, I never said she was a vegetable. I can tell you've made that statement based on the overplayed clip of her "reacting" to her surroundings... j_ball430 The husband has a girlfriend with two kids from that girlfriend, he just wants his wife to be out of the way, collect the money from her death, and then live happily ever after with his girlfriend. Sure, he hasn't come out and said that, but who can deny that being a motive? How exactly his she been in his way? Remember, 20 Courts agreed with the man. The only reason why they're unplugging her in the first place is because euthanasia on human beings is illegal.
Most courts are going on the basis that a) He spent the money on her support for the last 15 or so years, b) she supposedly said she wouldn't want to live that way and c) "I wouldn't want to live that way either". As opposed to the parent's "She would want to live" argument. The only difference is that the former argument has no logical foothold at all.
http://codeblueblog.blogs.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/ct_scan_terri.png This is Terri Schiavo's brain. Note hole in middle. The reason her muscles involuntarily twitch and she has reaction is because the small part of the brain at the base of the spinal cord is still intact. It is infact impossible that she has higher brain functions. And Hydra, have you actually watched the major media on this? They bring on a bunch of fake "medical professionals" like their "Nobel Prize Nominee" [There is no such thing] and then run series about how people recovered from comas. [Different medical condition entirely] And hey, I just heard that someone in North Carolina got rolled up by the police this morning for posting a bounty on both Michael Schiavo's head, and Judge Grier's.
Fuck conservatives. They are all religious fanatic idiots. "Yes, I know it's rhetoric, but I felt that this was a perfect time to insert it no matter how incorrect it may be, so fuck off anybody who wants to bitch at me for this comment."
There is absolutely no need for any kind of political bias here. This situation isn't red versus blue, it is the individual life of someone. There are many people on both sides of this issue who affiliate with the liberals and vise versa. Why this even came up to this extent in all of 18 posts is mind boggling. Can someone please give a logical reason to kill her off that doesn't include the irrelevant statement of "I wouldn't want to live that way".
"I want her to die in peace, so lets starve her to death!"
Javaxcx Can someone please give a logical reason to kill her off that doesn't include the irrelevant statement of "I wouldn't want to live that way". It seems sort of obvious to me, that Michael has convinced a trial judge, an appeals judge, the supreme court of Florida, a Federal judge and a Federal appeals judge... that Terri didn't want to live that way; it has nothing to do with I Of course, I haven't read all those court transcripts.. but regardless of all the "evidence" that each side is pulling out of their ass these days, can someone please provide me with a logical reason to believe over seven judges at the state and federal level have erred, or are for some reason biased?
Michael's case carries more weight than her parent's case. Michael can rely on at two pieces of (circumstantial) evidence while the parents have.. well... none. In a court of law, no evidence means no case. But just because there is evidence to support Michael's claim and not Terri's parents, does not mean there is any real logic behind the ruling other than "you can prove your case and you can't". The judges aren't stupid, they are doing their job exactly within the regions they are allowed to and are siding with death as opposed to life. Oh yeah, did I mention that within the confines of this case, the ruling also says that 1+1=3, dogs walk people, and hamburgers eat YOU!
Renx "I want her to die in peace, so lets starve her to death!" Quote: euthanasia on human beings is illegal.
Nodbugger Breathing is not an involuntary action. actually, it's both.
Just another reason why my proposal to follow every person on earth with a flying camera would save the day. Then we'd know exactly what she said on the subject.
SEAL Fuck conservatives. They are all religious fanatic idiots. "Yes, I know it's rhetoric, but I felt that this was a perfect time to insert it no matter how incorrect it may be, so fuck off anybody who wants to bitch at me for this comment." And this is why I see liberals as brain dead.
Quote: Can someone please give a logical reason to kill her off that doesn't include the irrelevant statement of "I wouldn't want to live that way". They say she's in deep depression because of her state, and (obviously) she can't do anything about it. She's already been in that state for a number of years, and keeping her alive would just prolong that depression. Mind you, I have no clue how they figured out that she's depresses, but thats a different story.
Nodbugger Breathing is not an involuntary action. You failed at Biology.
Hmm, if it wasn't involuntary then the population would have ended just as it started.
You can't argue that it wont hurt her to starve her because she cant feel, then use the fact that she FEELS depressed as one of your reasons for starving her. That's not even circular logic, that's just stupid.
IRON FART Quote: Can someone please give a logical reason to kill her off that doesn't include the irrelevant statement of "I wouldn't want to live that way". They say she's in deep depression because of her state, and (obviously) she can't do anything about it. She's already been in that state for a number of years, and keeping her alive would just prolong that depression. Mind you, I have no clue how they figured out that she's depresses, but thats a different story. So then she isn't really braindead because she can feel something and convey it. If this were true, then straving her would be like starving a child with Down's Syndrome because they can't cure it and the child is stuck with it.
When you're awake/conscious, breathing isn't involuntary, when you're asleep/unconscious it's involuntary. Because of this, a kid who tries to hold his breath until he gets what he wants can't suffocate himself, once he loses consciousness from holding his breath (if he holds it that long) he'll start breathing again involuntarily.
If you're so mentally incapacitated that breathing and starring at a balloon is all you've got going for you... Who WOULD want to stay alive?
SEAL If you're so mentally incapacitated that breathing and starring at a balloon is all you've got going for you... Who WOULD want to stay alive? 80% of our congressmen
I don't see why your standard of living has anything to do with what Terri would want.
SEAL If you're so mentally incapacitated that breathing and starring at a balloon is all you've got going for you... Who WOULD want to stay alive? It doesn't matter. No one can say what she would want but her. If she cannot, then it is unfortunate, but still no one can say what she wants.
I'll refrain from posting the Captain Obvious image..
To cowmisfit: Does your signature actually align me with Nazi fascists?
SuperFlyingEngi To cowmisfit: Does your signature actually align me with Nazi fascists? I would bet his signature depicts his opinion of the situation.. If you align yourself with it, that would be your problem, not his.
I don't see this issue as a Republican/Democrat thing... only certain brain dead psychotics can align a woman's life with a party line. I am pretty undecided on it. I am certain that allowing her to starve to death is NOT the way to go, but as retarded as it is, it's the only legal way to end her life. Would I want to live that way? Probably not... but then again would I want to die if I knew that 16 years down the road I was going to be back to normal? It's a tough question. (And no, I'm not saying that Terri can recover... who knows?)
Oddly enough, the only way I can possible see Schiavo recovering to any extent from her brain condition is through stem cell research, oh so vehemently opposed by the same people who oppose ending Schiavo's body after the brain is already gone. And even then, it's quite a long shot. But stem cells will be the miracle medicine once we get the religious fanatics out of the offices they don't belong in.
I see nothing wrong with stem cell research to a point.
SuperFlyingEngi Oddly enough, the only way I can possible see Schiavo recovering to any extent from her brain condition is through stem cell research, oh so vehemently opposed by the same people who oppose ending Schiavo's body after the brain is already gone. And even then, it's quite a long shot. But stem cells will be the miracle medicine once we get the religious fanatics out of the offices they don't belong in. Cool, now you're a 15 year old PhD. Sweet.
j_ball430 I see nothing wrong with stem cell research to a point. Care to define that point? Crimson Cool, now you're a 15 year old PhD. Sweet. Nope, still 14 for another 2 months. But my dad is a huge science buff, and I can't help but live under his roof.
SuperFlyingEngi Terri Shiavo has been braindead for over a decade. The pretend rumor that she hasn't is a lie perpetuated by Republicans in the media in an effort to create yet another wedge issue of morality. Quote: What they, and Terri's family have done, is rob the husband of an incredible sum of money keeping a body without a brain on life support. Quote: Letting the body die from lack of sustenance is not morally wrong to me, since there is no brain to suffer from it. Even if there were, she's under so many drugs she would feel nothing anyways. Quote: Nope, still 14 for another 2 months. But my dad is a huge science buff, and I can't help but live under his roof. I'll type up my response to this after my head stops pounding from the bullshit it just read.
SuperFlyingEngi j_ball430 I see nothing wrong with stem cell research to a point. Care to define that point? No, not really. I just wanted to state that I don't really see anything wrong with stem cell research up until a point. All that was meant for was to prove your assumption wrong.
Huge science buff != PhD This is stupid, even from you.
Of course I know that. What's your point? A PhD is not a mark of attaining a certain level of intelligence that cannot be superceded without a PhD. That's all semantics, though.
Too bad it makes the difference between professional opinion and personal opinion, eh?
I've seen a fair amount of this, and from what I understand she had an eating disorder, which caused cardiac arrest, which in turn caused the brain to pretty much turn into spinal fluid. I've also heard there is a 100% no chance of recovery, and if there was, she'd starve herself again (point made from prementioned eating disorder) If that's true then she wants to die, she's braindead now. Her soul is most probably gone and recognising people's faces could (imho) be attributed to what little brain she has left. I think she should be allowed to die seeing as she's pretty much dead anyway. It may sound harsh but I don't see the point of prolonging this when there's millions dying of things like war, cureable disease, murder, etc.
Renx Too bad it makes the difference between professional opinion and personal opinion, eh? No it doesn't.
Well, as I have suffered this many a time, I can say it does. I have built my own pc and network, yet I can't get a job doing data input. I am doing a course in Java 2, yet because I don't have anything on paper to say I know about computers, I cannot get any kind of it work.
SuperFlyingEngi Renx Too bad it makes the difference between professional opinion and personal opinion, eh? No it doesn't. Care to elaborate? Or are you just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing?
To be as smart as the average PhD student, it's not a requirement to have a PhD. My dad has worked as a development editor assessing the scientific content that biology students going for PhDs read in books during their schooling his whole career. But it doesn't take his knowledge to see the hole in Schiavo's head, along with the smoothing of the brain's surface in the rear to know she's been gone for a long time. Oh, and if it interests you all, Tom Delay (R-TX) pulled the plug on his dad when he was in the hospital, and Terri's dad pulled the plug on his mother. And Jeb Bush apparently declared martial law when he sent paramilitary forces to the hospice where Terri Schiavo is in an attempt to "rescue" her in direct violation of a court order. But since the local police were under court order to protect Schiavo, they had no choice but to bar passage to the state officials, and that died down quickly. But you don't hear that on FOX News. Instead, they try to make up for it with their Nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize in Medicine. [There are two things wrong with that. Figure them out.]
SuperFlyingEngi To be as smart as the average PhD student, it's not a requirement to have a PhD. Maybe not, but to be anything in this country, you have to have been doing it for 2 years
Javaxcx There are many people on both sides of this issue who affiliate with the liberals and vise versa. Why this even came up to this extent in all of 18 posts is mind boggling. You can thank SuperFlyingLiberalTool's intense hatred of Republicans and morals for turning this into a "left vs. right" debate. All those in favor of making SuperFlyingLiberalTool shut the hell up, please say "Aye!" AYE!!!
So because your dad is a "science buff", he's allowed to walk into an OR and perform brain surgery? He's allowed to diagnose brain death? Is he also performing stem cell research? If not, then it's a personal opinion, an educated guess at the very best. Funny that you are talking about this "Nobel Peace Prize nominee" (that I don't know a thing about, btw)... while a few months ago (here) you were singing the praises of someone on the "short list" for a Nobel Prize?
Understanding how a brain works and performing brain surgery are two entirely different things. To be fair, I never actually said my dad offered anything more than a personal opinion, it's just that PhDs seem to be a bit over-valued here. Ok, here's what is wrong with a Nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize in Medicine: A) There is no Nobel Peace Prize in Medicine. It's a Nobel Prize in Medicine. B) There is no such thing as a nominee for it. The short list is a different thing entirely. What they fail to mention on network TV is that he was "nominated" for the prize by his state governor, who has no authority at all to recommend anyone for anything over at Oslo.
SuperFlyingEngi Terri Shiavo has been braindead for over a decade. The pretend rumor that she hasn't is a lie perpetuated by Republicans in the media in an effort to create yet another wedge issue of morality. Like it or not, the goverment and the republicans are not out to get you, your dad however is out to ruin your life and turn you into a evil monstor with no value for human life enless of course its a terrorist or dog, then GO SAVE THEM!!! Quote: What they, and Terri's family have done, is rob the husband of an incredible sum of money keeping a body without a brain on life support. ......I don't even know what to say to this. This is by far the stupidest statement I've ever had the displeasure of reading. Quote: Letting the body die from lack of sustenance is not morally wrong to me, since there is no brain to suffer from it. Even if there were, she's under so many drugs she would feel nothing anyways. You are a sick fuck. Not morally wrong eh? Ever seen someone starve to death? Yea, your right. THAT is not morally wrong at all. Super's America !!! PEACE AND FREEDOM FROM TERRORIST. Quote: Nope, still 14 for another 2 months. But my dad is a huge science buff, and I can't help but live under his roof. But my dad, but my dad said this, but my dad said this. Your dad is an idiot. Your supposed to be the "awww we're killing innocent civilians" fucktard, and now look. Its an innocent american and your saying "ah w/e its not wrong to me, stave her."
cowmisfit Like it or not, the goverment and the republicans are not out to get you, your dad however is out to ruin your life and turn you into a evil monstor with no value for human life enless of course its a terrorist or dog, then GO SAVE THEM!!! You're a funny kid. cowmisfit ......I don't even know what to say to this. This is by far the stupidest statement I've ever had the displeasure of reading. This all started with the malpractice lawsuit filed against the doctor who let Schiavo kill herself, and when the parents didn't get any money from the suit, they started all this. cowmisfit You are a sick fuck. Not morally wrong eh? Ever seen someone starve to death? A body without a mind, you idiot. You really didn't glean that from the context? cowmisfit But my dad, but my dad said this, but my dad said this. Your dad is an idiot. Your supposed to be the "awww we're killing innocent civilians" fucktard, and now look. Its an innocent american and your saying "ah w/e its not wrong to me, stave her." There's nothing to suffer from a bunch of cells being starved. Terri Schiavo no longer has a brain to suffer with. - By the way - Did you all know that George Bush signed a law in Texas that allowed hospitals to pull the plug on patients like Terri Schiavo if the patient's insurance runs out? The hypocrisy never ends... atrios.com George Bush signed the law which allows the hospitals to make this decision: A patient's inability to pay for medical care combined with a prognosis that renders further care futile are two reasons a hospital might suggest cutting off life support, the chief medical officer at St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital said Monday. Dr. David Pate's comments came as the family of Spiro Nikolouzos fights to keep St. Luke's from turning off the ventilator and artificial feedings keeping the 68-year-old grandfather alive. St. Luke's notified Jannette Nikolouzos in a March 1 letter that it would withdraw life-sustaining care of her husband of 34 years in 10 days, which would be Friday. Mario Caba-llero, the attorney representing the family, said he is seeking a two-week extension, at minimum, to give the man more time to improve and to give his family more time to find an alternative facility. The Bill (Search for section 166.044) Apparently, this is a matter of principle for the GOP.
Must I ask again where it says anywhere in any constitution in the west that one has the right to die?
ok heres my stand on this, im a little late, i know. but I think they should honor the husbands descision. HOWEVER: The way in which they are carrying it out is disgusting, prisoners on death row have an easier death then she is getting. Its not fair to starve her to death, and its extremely painful(if she can feel it that is). But I heard its against the law to give lethal injection, go figure.....
gbull ok heres my stand on this, im a little late, i know. but I think they should honor the husbands descision. HOWEVER: The way in which they are carrying it out is disgusting, prisoners on death row have an easier death then she is getting. Its not fair to starve her to death, and its extremely painful(if she can feel it that is). But I heard its against the law to give lethal injection, go figure..... Why should they honor the husband's decision? She's not his property. Honor her parents' decision since they raised her.
Not necessarily legally. In THIS case, Michael is the LEGAL guardian. And it is unfortunate that it is like that, because what he is doing is nothing short of litigated murder.
I know, I agree with that him being the legal guardian, and it is a shame, but I don't care what laws say, government is there to protect its people, not let the innocent slaughter of them happen before their eyes without any attempts to prevent it.
SuperFlyingEngi . What they fail to mention on network TV is that he was "nominated" for the prize by his state governor, who has no authority at all to recommend anyone for anything over at Oslo. You're partly correct, but only missing a few key points.. He was nominated by a congressman on the recommendation of the International Police chiefs federation... I was led to believe that the Congressman was also a Dr, which could have given credibility to his ability to nominate, but that may not be true.
No one has a right to nominate anyone for a non-existant award, because A) There are no nominations for the Nobel Prize, pardoning the fact that there is no Nobel Peace Prize in Medicine. Or am I tragically mistaken? Please, if doctors are allowed to nominate other people for non-existant awards, show me where it says that.
Javaxcx Not necessarily legally. In THIS case, Michael is the LEGAL guardian. And it is unfortunate that it is like that, because what he is doing is nothing short of litigated murder. This proves that the legal system is flawed, and it's very sad that this woman has to die as a consequence. SuperFlyingEngi http://codeblueblog.blogs.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/ct_scan_terri.png This is Terri Schiavo's brain. As of 9 years ago, and that's the only CT scan ever taken of her brain. Her husband wouldn't allow an MRI be done on her, which would reveal much more about the brain that cannot be gathered from a CT scan. Other than that sorry excuse for "evidence", you have no evidence that she is simply "a body without a mind," that she cannot feel pain, and that she is truly unconcious, so everything you have said in this thread means absolute dick (then again, that also applies to everything you have ever said in this forum).
SuperFlyingEngi No one has a right to nominate anyone for a non-existant award, because A) There are no nominations for the Nobel Prize, pardoning the fact that there is no Nobel Peace Prize in Medicine. Or am I tragically mistaken? Please, if doctors are allowed to nominate other people for non-existant awards, show me where it says that. If you take your head out of your ass for a second, you should be able to easily drop the "peace" part of the title, then continue your argument.. http://nobelprize.org/medicine/nomination/nominators.html
Bad msgtpain... citing your sources and doing your own research.
I'm sorry, next time I'll consult with my dad instead.. No wait, he knows that you can nominate people for a nobel prize too...
Msgtpain, quit being so blind to Republican propaganda; don't you know that nobelprize.org is owned by Rupert Murdoch and is therefore filled with conservative bias? That's why I have just ordered the new Nobelprize.org Blocker.
msgtpain If you take your head out of your ass for a second, you should be able to easily drop the "peace" part of the title, then continue your argument.. http://nobelprize.org/medicine/nomination/nominators.html Fair enough, but does the nominator fit under 6 or 7? You said you were merely led to believe he was a doctor. And really, watch the mainstream media, who announces him as a nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize in medicine... and they never correct their mistakes. Hydra As of 9 years ago, and that's the only CT scan ever taken of her brain. Her husband wouldn't allow an MRI be done on her, which would reveal much more about the brain that cannot be gathered from a CT scan. Other than that sorry excuse for "evidence", you have no evidence that she is simply "a body without a mind," that she cannot feel pain, and that she is truly unconcious, so everything you have said in this thread means absolute dick (then again, that also applies to everything you have ever said in this forum). Did he really not let anyone give Terri Schiavo a CAT scan? Really? You must have some evidence beyond What Fox Said. And how is that a sorry excuse for evidence? It's a scan of her brain showing how the back is smooth, and not bumpy like a normal brain, and how there's a gigantic hole in the middle that has since been filled with cerebral spinal fluid. - STORY - I was watching FOX last night, some Hannity & Zombie special or something, and Terri Schiavo's parent's lawyer is talking about how she asked Terri if she wanted to live, and slowly, and with great effort, Schiavo said IIIIIII waaannnnttt tooooo liiiivveee.... Terri Schiavo is deaf. That and Colmes is a loser.
Were the fuck do you find all of these things out? your a fucking retard, show me one thing that says she's deaf and can't feel anything thats not from some bullshit source (aka your dad)
How much money does it cost to stick a feeding tube in here and feed her threw that? I don't know anything about medical science and crap, but honestly... doesn't look hard to keep a feeding tube in her for a few more years. But... I have absolute no knowledge of medical stuff, so if I'm wrong, please correct me.
Apparently, it took them years to figure out how to do that, so it's classified as a "medical procedure" rather than life support I think.
You can't just stick a tube in and forget about the whole thing. You would still need someone to clean the body, deal with the waste, rotate the body every so often (otherwise, clots tend to form which can block blood flow and cause death), perform tests to make sure that, yes, she's still a vegetable, keep records, etc. Over the course of years, the cost of keeping a body on life support with medical staff caring for it, can rise into the millions of dollars. Especially, as in this case, when the body can do nothing to aid the medical staff. That's an awful lot of money to be spending on someone who isn't really THERE anymore. Money that should be going into care for patients who are still alive, and who have some hope of recovery- not for bodies with no capacity for emotion, thought, or feeling. BTW, has anyone even looked at the CAT scan of this woman's head? The only thing that's even working in there is the brain stem- you can't think with that, you can't feel with that. The lights are on, but nobody's home.
SuperFlyingEngi And really, watch the mainstream media, who announces him as a nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize in medicine... and they never correct their mistakes. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151148,00.html Here's a transcript of Hannity and Colmes where they talked to this guy in question. ONCE in the transcript, Hannity said "Peace" instead of just "Nobel Prize". Given it's not scripted, I would say it was a simple mistake in words. Nowhere else but that one citation do I find references to a "nobel peace prize in medicine"... but don't take MY word for it. http://search.foxnews.com/_1_2UGSTYI02Y8IJFI__info.foxnws/search/web/nobel%2Bprize%2Bmedicine Oh my god, there I go citing sources again.
That's the only transcript I could find on FOX, CNN, or MSNBC even talking about Dr. Hammesfahr. But I did look at the actual letter written by Rep. Mike Bilirakis (R-FL), which does actually reference the Nobel Peace Prize in Medicine. This must be where Hannity made the mistake. That and Bilikaris wasn't authorized to nominate Hammesfahr for the award anyways. According to an explanation of the nomination process posted on the Nobel Prize website, the Nobel Assembly sends out invitations to approximately 3,000 people who are allowed to propose candidates for the Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine. The 3,000 are "mainly members of the Nobel Assembly, previous prize winners, and a selection of professors at universities around the world" -- not U.S. congressmen. Furthermore, the Nobel Assembly's "Nomination and Selection" criteria make clear that "information about the nominations, investigations, and opinions concerning the award is kept secret for fifty years," so if Hammesfahr had received an actual nomination, he presumably would not know about it. So you know, Hammesfahr was disciplined in 2003 by the Florida Board of Medicine So Hammesfahr couldn't have been nominated, and if he had been, he wouldn't know about it. But that didn't stop Hannity from making the reference 8 times, and Joe Scarborough making the reference 4 times. Scarborough also claimed that Hammesfahr treated Schiavo, which is false, since the doctor merely examined her along with 4 others. mediamatters.org From the March 21 edition of Fox News' Hannity & Colmes: HANNITY: And we're going to talk to a doctor who spent 10 hours with her tonight, and he says that he believes, in his expert opinion -- this is a man that was nominated for a Nobel Prize, by the way -- that she could be rehabilitated. [...] HANNITY: And coming up later in the program tonight, we're going to meet a doctor who actually spent 10 hours examining Terri Schiavo. He was nominated for a Nobel Prize. He believes that she could be rehabilitated. [...] HANNITY: You were nominated for a Nobel Prize in medicine? HAMMESFAHR: Yes. [...] HANNITY: You were nominated to get a Nobel Peace Prize in this work. Are you saying that this woman could be rehabilitated? [...] HANNITY: How is it possible we're in this position if you have examined her? You were up for a Nobel Prize. This is mind boggling to me. [...] HANNITY: Well, this is what I want to understand. This is your area of expertise that got you nominated for one of the most prestigious awards in medicine, the Nobel Prize. [...] HANNITY: -- hang on a second -- and talk to a Nobel prize-nominated physician who spent 10 hours with her, who believes if, given the opportunity, he can rehabilitate her? [...] HANNITY: Imagine being in his position and having a guy like a Nobel Prize nominee like Dr. Hammesfahr, who I'm looking at right now, who spent 10 hours with her and feels that, given the chance, he could rehabilitate this girl. From the March 21 edition of MSNBC's Scarborough Country: SCARBOROUGH: And a Nobel Prize-nominated neurologist who has treated Terri Schiavo, he says Terri should live and that her husband is perpetrating a hoax that is just aimed at killing his wife. [...] SCARBOROUGH: And I'm going to be talking with a Nobel Prize-nominated neurologist who has treated Terri Schiavo and he says her husband is pulling a huge hoax simply to kill his wife. [...] SCARBOROUGH: Coming up: a Nobel Prize-nominated neurologist who is treating Terri Schiavo says her husband is pulling a hoax. [...] SCARBOROUGH: So, what is Terri Schiavo's true medical condition? Here to help us sort it out is Dr. William Hammesfahr. He's a neurologist who was nominated for a Nobel Prize for his work in medicine. And he's one of the doctors who has treated Terri Schiavo. So I was partially mistaken about the mainstream media. But if anything they were trying to cover up for this hoax letter by not accurately citing it.
You're making an accusation that you can't back up, or at least haven't backed up... I'm not saying that he "was able to" nominate, but you're stating that he "could not" nominate. Do you think you should maybe find out if he was possibly sent a nomination form, before outright discrediting him? They send out around 3,000 offers to whomever they choose.. I seriously doubt he was one of them, but I wouldn't say he wasn't, unless I knew for sure; how about you?
So you're saying that "mainstream media" is perpetuating this "story"... and yet you only pull up one network who is doing it. There are a few more you haven't referenced. Hence, you're still dead wrong.
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Hmm, yes, we should always believe what we see on the tv and them old fashioned news"paper" things. I prefer not to bother myself..
cowmisfit Were the fuck do you find all of these things out? your a f*cking retard, show me one thing that says she's deaf and can't feel anything thats not from some bullsh*t source (aka your dad) Just thought I'd get back to this - she has no cortex, which means she can't hear. It also means she can't see. msgtpain You're making an accusation that you can't back up, or at least haven't backed up... I'm not saying that he "was able to" nominate, but you're stating that he "could not" nominate. Do you think you should maybe find out if he was possibly sent a nomination form, before outright discrediting him? They send out around 3,000 offers to whomever they choose.. I seriously doubt he was one of them, but I wouldn't say he wasn't, unless I knew for sure; how about you? The Nobel organization offers invitations to "mainly members of the Nobel Assembly, previous prize winners, and a selection of professors at universities around the world" Not U.S. Congressmen. And even then, if it were a real nomination, Hammesfahr wouldn't know about it since the process is a secret. Crimson So you're saying that "mainstream media" is perpetuating this "story"... and yet you only pull up one network who is doing it. There are a few more you haven't referenced. Hence, you're still dead wrong. Scarborough's show is on MSNBC.
Well, it's too late to do anything anymore. Plugging the tube in now will actually hurt her more. Sad that people have to die this way - feeling it or not.
I hope your happy Tool, you have successfully supported the murder by starvation of an innocent disabled woman in the Unted States of America.
cowmisfit I hope your happy Tool, you have successfully supported the murder by starvation of an innocent disabled woman in the Unted States of America. Tool: cowmisfit Fuck You
Only Lewis Black can reply to you idiots: click
cowmisfit I hope your happy Tool, you have successfully supported the murder by starvation of an innocent disabled woman in the Unted States of America. You do indeed refuse to read my opinion on the matter, don't you? You've made no attempt to address it. You obviously have made no conscious thought about what I'm saying And I'm the mindless "tool" Michael Schiavo has succesfully proven in front of 28 courts in a row that Terri Schiavo is braindead. The movies the media shows time and again of Terri having random, spasmodic muscle twitches are by no means a sign of whether or not she is thinking any more. Her brain lacks both the capacity to see and hear. It was a sad event when Terri Schiavo died 15 years ago. But the past is the past, and it's long past time to move on.
I don't care if she was braindead. Starving anyone is pretty uncool SFE.
Only if there's anything to suffer from it.
SuperFlyingEngi Her brain lacks both the capacity to see and hear. Well, now you can be right when you claim this as truth. Congratulations for supporting murder. Sieg Heil!
So you would be FOR the holocaust as long as they gave the Jews painkillers?
You entirely misinterpreted what I said. Try again.