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The protestors in New York this week number somewhere around 500,000. You can see some cool scenes on C-SPAN. Thoughts?
Every person in New York City hates every single one of them. I wish the police would arrest them already. They have broken too many laws to be allowed to continue.
A group that I'm in is among the "counterprotesters"... you'll have to excuse our smaller numbers, but we have jobs. On the other hand, my boss got himself a seat at the convention. I'm so jealous. On the third presidential debate, I'll be involved with a group who protests the protesters in the designated "free speech area". Should be a blast.
Nodbugger Every person in New York City hates every single one of them. I wish the police would arrest them already. They have broken too many laws to be allowed to continue. At least they haven't broken any international laws, like say invading another country without an UN mandate.
cokemaster Nodbugger Every person in New York City hates every single one of them. I wish the police would arrest them already. They have broken too many laws to be allowed to continue. At least they haven't broken any international laws, like say invading another country without an UN mandate. No one broke any international laws. Well Saddam broke 14 security resolutions and countless laws, but you don't care about going after the real criminals.
The US has broken a fair few probably in its time as well, does that give countries like North Korea and China the right to 'disarm' the criminal bush.... who is a criminal in their eyes? But as Java has pointed out: Morality does not equal law, so yes the USA did break international laws. Food for thought, but like many.... word fall on deaf ears.
Cokemaster, don't even bother, if they like to spend billions on bullshit then let them spend billions on bullshit.
cokemaster The US has broken a fair few probably in its time as well, does that give countries like North Korea and China the right to 'disarm' the criminal bush.... who is a criminal in their eyes? But as Java has pointed out: Morality does not equal law, so yes the USA did break international laws. Food for thought, but like many.... word fall on deaf ears. Actually no, we have either bent them or broken them with a UN mandate. We have never broken a UN Resolution. We have never done what the real criminals have done. And don't be a fucking dumb ass and say well North Korea and China see us as the criminals. Are you that fucking stupid? If we are the criminals go live in North Korea or China then come back and tell me who the fuck the real criminals are. You people are fucking retarded.
Crimson A group that I'm in is among the "counterprotesters"... you'll have to excuse our smaller numbers, but we have jobs. On the other hand, my boss got himself a seat at the convention. I'm so jealous. On the third presidential debate, I'll be involved with a group who protests the protesters in the designated "free speech area". Should be a blast. On the contrary, people without jobs don't have the time or money to travel to New York to protest. To suggest that liberals don't have jobs just makes you look ignorant and foolish. Let's see...you are going to protest a bunch of people who know you are there just to counter them, and you will be severely outnumbered. Gee, that sounds smart. I hope you don't get injured, because it looks like these "counterprotesters" are asking for trouble. Oh, and Nodbugger, shut up. Just shut up.
Why should I shut up when I am correct? As I said, go live in Iran, Libya, pre-war Iraq, North Korea, China, or Cuba then come back and tell me who the criminals are.
Nodbugger You people are fucking retarded. Ok.. define "retarded." This will be your own little test.
Nodbugger Why should I shut up when I am correct? I never said you should shut up if you are correct. You are incorrect. Thus, shut up. Nodbugger As I said, go live in Iran, Libya, pre-war Iraq, North Korea, China, or Cuba then come back and tell me who the criminals are. I have been to Iran. And yep, Bush is still a war criminal. My mother lived in Iran for 20 years. Guess what? She thinks he is a war criminal too. This Iranian from the old Ammo forums (Takavar) hated Bush with a passion. As I said, shut up.
Nodbugger Why should I shut up when I am correct? As I said, go live in Iran, Libya, pre-war Iraq, North Korea, China, or Cuba then come back and tell me who the criminals are. Actually at the end of the term... I AM GOING TO CHINA. So yes, I will be able to tell you who the criminals are. And it will always be the same answer: Bush and his war mongering croonies. Anyway Aprime's right... you can't debate with a person who has caught Bush's retorical line - hook line and sinker (sorry for any spelling mistakes)
SEAL Nodbugger Why should I shut up when I am correct? I never said you should shut up if you are correct. You are incorrect. Thus, shut up. Nodbugger As I said, go live in Iran, Libya, pre-war Iraq, North Korea, China, or Cuba then come back and tell me who the criminals are. I have been to Iran. And yep, Bush is still a war criminal. My mother lived in Iran for 20 years. Guess what? She thinks he is a war criminal too. This Iranian from the old Ammo forums (Takavar) hated Bush with a passion. As I said, shut up. How is he a war criminal? Well she is an Iranian, what do you expect her to say? She is brainwashed and she obviously brainwashed you. As a western citizen you must be a fucking idiot to compare Bush to the leaders of Iran and then say Bush is a war criminal. you have been brainwashed and hopefully you will get caught in Iran when we bomb it.
cokemaster Nodbugger Why should I shut up when I am correct? As I said, go live in Iran, Libya, pre-war Iraq, North Korea, China, or Cuba then come back and tell me who the criminals are. Actually at the end of the term... I AM GOING TO CHINA. So yes, I will be able to tell you who the criminals are. And it will always be the same answer: Bush and his war mongering croonies. Anyway Aprime's right... you can't debate with a person who has caught Bush's retorical line - hook line and sinker (sorry for any spelling mistakes) So have you ever been to China? Or are you going to the nice China: Tourists edition? China is just like Jamaica. You have fun in the sun Jamaica and stabbing Jamaica. And please tell me why Bush and his 'cronies' are criminals? None of you fuckers ever back up any of your statements. BTW, how is he a war monger? He defended the US from the Taliban and he defeated an evil Dictator. How is that war mongering? You mean Clinton wasn't a war monger? He did attack a few countries in his presidency. Somalia, Iraq, Bosnia/Serbia, random South American countries and some other African countries. Why are you not sitting here calling him a war monger? Why are you not protesting Saddam? Who is responsible for over a million deaths during the Iran-Iraq war. What about the thousands he killed when he invaded Kuwait? Or the hundreds of thousands he killed inside his country. Or the other wars since the Gulf War? http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstatx.htm What about the on-going genocides in Rwanda and Sudan? Which the UN refuses to do nothing about. What about the wars the past 50 years? The UN never did anything about those. The only one people protested in Mass was Vietnam and this current war. Why are you not bitching about all these other wars? What about the wars that are going on in other places? Why do you fucking care so much the United States is taking out an evil dictator. Why does that piss you have so much?
Nodbugger Every person in New York City hates every single one of them. I wish the police would arrest them already. They have broken too many laws to be allowed to continue. Which laws have the protestors broken? When one of them does break a law, they get arrested immediately. In fact, a couple Republican demonstrators got arrested for lighting a big green dragon thing on fire. Their names aren't out yet, but as soon as they come out some big blog sites will google their names and find out who they are. My money's on Republicans. Crimson, a little protestor protesting tip: Don't light the protestor's signs on fire.
SuperFlyingEngi Nodbugger Every person in New York City hates every single one of them. I wish the police would arrest them already. They have broken too many laws to be allowed to continue. Which laws have the protestors broken? When one of them does break a law, they get arrested immediately. In fact, a couple Republican demonstrators got arrested for lighting a big green dragon thing on fire. Their names aren't out yet, but as soon as they come out some big blog sites will google their names and find out who they are. My money's on Republicans. Crimson, a little protestor protesting tip: Don't light the protestor's signs on fire. For a protest like that a permit is required. And there were no permits given out for the event. Not to mention the millions of dollars in taxes wasted and the police/fire/ambulance personnel diverted to the area. You can also put in there they pissed off a lot of New Yorkers. Taking all those resources away from a city like New York is a terrorist attack in itself.
Nodbugger, you're on a fast, stupid train going no where. Don't you find something remotely strange in that you are the only person here who believes the world works the way you think it does? Oh well, I guess Crimson must be brainwashed as well. Even she agrees that the United States and the Coalition of the Willing violated international law (even though she still feels strongly that that law is flawed).
Javaxcx Nodbugger, you're on a fast, stupid train going no where. Don't you find something remotely strange in that you are the only person here who believes the world works the way you think it does? Oh well, I guess Crimson must be brainwashed as well. Even she agrees that the United States and the Coalition of the Willing violated international law (even though she still feels strongly that that law is flawed). You can interpret it how ever you want, but at the end of the day when the people in charge of enforcing the laws don't say anything, it is OK. And don't give me that crap about if they don't say anything that doesn't mean it is legal. OF COURSE IT MEANS IT IS LEGAL! I cop doesn't pull you over to tell you that you are abiding the law. They only tell you when you are breaking it.
Nodbugger Well she is an Iranian, what do you expect her to say? She is brainwashed and she obviously brainwashed you. You really ought to shut the fuck up. You don't know anything about me, or my family. We inform ourselves. We watch the news just as much as anyone else does, if not more. And we aren't brainwashed. I hope you only talk shit like this on forums, because if you keep this up in the real world you're going to get beat the fuck up. My father, born in Ohio, went to Iran (Peace Corps) and spent almost a decade there. So he has had a good taste of both cultures. And guess what, motherfucker? He thinks Bush is a fuckwad too. You, on the other hand, claim to know the differences and be so aware of what is going on in other countries, but you've never been to places like Iran, have you? Nodbugger As a western citizen you must be a fucking idiot to compare Bush to the leaders of Iran and then say Bush is a war criminal. I never compared Bush to the leaders of Iran. YOU DID. Bush is a war criminal REGARDLESS of other leaders and what they have done. You got that? It does not matter what other leaders have done. Bush being a war criminal is NOT dependant on other leaders. ARE WE CLEAR? And since you so eloquently said that only a "fucking idiot" would compare Bush to leaders of Iran, guess what that makes you? Nodbugger hopefully you will get caught in Iran when we bomb it. HOPEFULLY, I will run into you one day and beat your head in with a tire-iron. You AREN'T smart. You AREN'T informed. You AREN'T mature. And you make people who hold even remotely similar views of yours look like idiots. Shut the fuck up.
You are sounding like John Kerry, it takes a long time to say it but at the end nothing really came out. I have been all around the world. I have been to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. The only two places in the middle east.
And you are sounding like Nodbugger: Stupid, uninformed, logically flawed and immature. It's a good thing you decided to try and attack me in such a vague way, because trying to actually counter points that I made would be too pathetic to watch. (FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, please tell me you meant to say that "Saudi Arabia and Kuwait were the only two places in the middle east that I have been to.")
SEAL And you are sounding like Nodbugger: Stupid, uninformed, logically flawed and immature. It's a good thing you decided to try and attack me in such a vague way, because trying to actually counter points that I made would be too pathetic to watch. (FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, please tell me you meant to say that "Saudi Arabia and Kuwait were the only two places in the middle east that I have been to.") You didn't have any points and yes that is what i meant.
Of course I had no points in that post. I'm still waiting on you to make an actual counter to my post before.
Nodbugger Javaxcx Nodbugger, you're on a fast, stupid train going no where. Don't you find something remotely strange in that you are the only person here who believes the world works the way you think it does? Oh well, I guess Crimson must be brainwashed as well. Even she agrees that the United States and the Coalition of the Willing violated international law (even though she still feels strongly that that law is flawed). You can interpret it how ever you want, but at the end of the day when the people in charge of enforcing the laws don't say anything, it is OK. I don't understand where you're getting off saying that I'm "interpreting" the law. The documents speak for themselves. You just lack the intellect to actually understand what is written (provided you actually READ the information, something you're not very well known for). Quote: And don't give me that crap about if they don't say anything that doesn't mean it is legal. OF COURSE IT MEANS IT IS LEGAL! I cop doesn't pull you over to tell you that you are abiding the law. They only tell you when you are breaking it. Stop being an idiot. No intelligent person on this earth can conclude that "an act is only illegal if you're caught". The law says you may not speed. If you speed, you are violating the law, therefore, doing an illegal act. If you are fortunate enough not to be caught, or are fortunate enough not to suffer the appropriate consequences of violating the law, that does not negate the illegality of the act. It simply means you got lucky. Nodbugger, listen to me very closely: If you play by your logic, and you earnestly believe that an act is only illegal if you are caught, do you have any fucking clue what you're saying? You are giving all people, EVERYWHERE an incentive to do illegal acts. Lets all go and rob banks! If we can get away without being caught, it doesn't matter that we a) tresspassed, b) stole property, or c) possibly threatened people with a deadly weapon. Haha, you know what else your logic entails? Oh get this, because this is a real kicker: Usama Bin Laden did something completely legal because he hasn't been caught yet. I mean, he hasn't been charged with anything. He's still a "free" man (as far as you can call "freedom" for a man on the run). Yes, that's right. Usama killed thousands of people, destoryed VERY expensive property and totalled 4 planes. But that's all completely legal -- because he hasn't been caught. At least, by your logic. PLEASE. Sit down, and reorganize your thoughts.
I never said it isn't illegal if you get caught. If we were speeding and ever cop in the world knew about and they did nothing then there isn't a problem. When the entire UN knows we are doing something and they don't do anything there is no problem. And yes you are interpreting the law. The only part you can eve refute in any resolution is "Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq, Kuwait, and the neighboring States, " We did not violated the territorial integrity. Quote: sovereignty- Complete independence and self-government. A territory existing as an independent state. As of now they are completely independent and they have always been a territory existing as an independent state. So that pretty much gets thrown out the window.
Okay, first off, Iraq is not completely independant. If US forces left Iraq, it would fall further into chaos and violence. The Iraq goverment is dependant on the US for security. If it was truly an independant nation, there would be no need for US troops at all. Nodbugger If we were speeding and ever cop in the world knew about and they did nothing then there isn't a problem. "Isn't a problem" != "legal"
SEAL Okay, first off, Iraq is not completely independant. If US forces left Iraq, it would fall further into chaos and violence. The Iraq goverment is dependant on the US for security. If it was truly an independant nation, there would be no need for US troops at all. Nodbugger If we were speeding and ever cop in the world knew about and they did nothing then there isn't a problem. "Isn't a problem" != "legal" If they don't care it is not a problem. Simple as that. And quit lying. There are 200,000 Iraqi police forces. Which is 50k more than total American troops in the region. They have more than enough. We are just training them.
Quote: We did not violated the territorial integrity. Quote: sovereignty- Complete independence and self-government. A territory existing as an independent state. As of now they are completely independent and they have always been a territory existing as an independent state. So that pretty much gets thrown out the window. Bullshit. You obviously don't know what the word sovereignty means. Quote: sov·er·eign·ty n 1. supreme authority, especially over a state 2. freedom from outside interference and the right to self-government 3. a politically independent state Encarta® World English Dictionary © 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc. Oops, and look! http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sovereignty&r=67 also lies!!! Quote: sov·er·eign·ty Audio pronunciation of "sovereignty" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (svr-n-t, svrn-) n. pl. sov·er·eign·ties 1. Supremacy of authority or rule as exercised by a sovereign or sovereign state. 2. Royal rank, authority, or power. 3. Complete independence and self-government. 4. A territory existing as an independent state. [Download or Buy Now] Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. Main Entry: sov·er·eign·ty Variant: also sov·ran·ty /'sä-vr&n-tE, 's&-, -v&-r&n-/ Function: noun Inflected Form: plural -ties 1 a : supreme power esp. over a body politic b : freedom from external control : AUTONOMY 2 : one that is sovereign; especially : an autonomous state
Nodbugger I never said it isn't illegal if you get caught. I didn't say you DID. You've implied it every time you talk about the lack of illegality dispite the overwhelming evidence stating otherwise. Quote: If we were speeding and ever cop in the world knew about and they did nothing then there isn't a problem. You were STILL speeding. That is a violation of the law. Just because you don't suffer the consequences doesn't mean you didn't violate the law that says "you may not speed". Stop arguing in a circle. Quote: When the entire UN knows we are doing something and they don't do anything there is no problem. See above. Try, PLEASE try and connect the dots. I know it's not your forte. Quote: And yes you are interpreting the law. Oh the irony. Quote: The only part you can eve refute in any resolution is "Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq, Kuwait, and the neighboring States, " We did not violated the territorial integrity. Quote: sovereignty- Complete independence and self-government. A territory existing as an independent state. First of all, I don't need to refute that statement. In fact, you've tried to refute it every time you post that this war was legal according to international law. You've failed, by the way. Oh yeah, your definition supports my claim that you violated the sovereignty of Iraq. No sane person would disagree. Quote: As of now they are completely independent and they have always been a territory existing as an independent state. No one cares about that when we're talking about inherent illegality. This problem goes back to March 19th, 2003. You know, when you launched the campaign to get those WMDs didn't appear in stockpiles and were refuted by the Intelligence Reports? Also, the same time when Saddam was legally, and officially recognized as the sovereign head of Iraq. Before, of course, you blew up part of the nation, took him out of power illegally, and instituted a representitive government of your choosing.
In that case, the UN violates the sovereignty of every one of its member states. The UN demands that each one of its member states follows each and every one of the international laws it passes, or suffer the consequences. Those member states are no longer sovereign since the UN has a higher power over those states if they violate any one of those laws.
Nodbugger If they don't care it is not a problem. Simple as that. So I guess you condone apathy on issues like AIDs and Cancer, right?
hydra1945 In that case, the UN violates the sovereignty of every one of its member states. The UN demands that each one of its member states follows each and every one of the international laws it passes, or suffer the consequences. Those member states are no longer sovereign since the UN has a higher power over those states if they violate any one of those laws. All of those Member States signed the Charter. They didn't have to, but they did anyway. If you'll notice, Iraq is, and was a Member State. So they're under those same laws as well. If you have any questions about the Charter and the laws in it that everyone said "OMG OK!!!111" to, then take a read: http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/
It's unsurprising that he condones stuff like that when he also condones the killing of another human being... Nodbugger, your entire string of arguments seem to rest on the premis that "If you're not caught, it's totally legal to do it". The hell it is. And once you acknowledge this fact, you'll be a lot better off. Quote: When the entire UN knows we are doing something and they don't do anything there is no problem. Perhaps the most stupid statement ever, as taken apart by plenty others before me. If you just accepted that inaction != apathy, you wouldn't feel the need to post stupid remarks like that.
I swear... nodbugger is doing this simply to get us riled up. He can't possibly be THIS stupid.
Javaxcx All of those Member States signed the Charter. They didn't have to, but they did anyway. If you'll notice, Iraq is, and was a Member State. So they're under those same laws as well. If you have any questions about the Charter and the laws in it that everyone said "OMG OK!!!111" to, then take a read: http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/ That still doesn't change the fact that the UN strips every one of its member states of their sovereignty. When a state joins the UN, it is basically agreeing to give up its sovereignty and answer to the almighty United Nations. It is no longer a sovereign nation if it has to adhere to some "international law" that rules over that nation. No member state of the UN is sovereign, so the United States did not violate Iraq's sovereignty when it ousted Saddam's regime. The US did nothing illegal since the "international law" was meaningless to begin with.
warranto I swear... nodbugger is doing this simply to get us riled up. He can't possibly be THIS stupid. You weren't in IRC 30 minutes ago. He is.
hydra1945 That still doesn't change the fact that the UN strips every one of its member states of their sovereignty. When a state joins the UN, it is basically agreeing to give up its sovereignty and answer to the almighty United Nations. It is no longer a sovereign nation if it has to adhere to some "international law" that rules over that nation. No member state of the UN is sovereign, so the United States did not violate Iraq's sovereignty when it ousted Saddam's regime. The US did nothing illegal since the "international law" was meaningless to begin with. The United Nations doesn't strip the Member States of their sovereignty, and here's why: Quote: sov·er·eign·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (svr-n-t, svrn-) n. pl. sov·er·eign·ties Supremacy of authority or rule as exercised by a sovereign or sovereign state. Royal rank, authority, or power. Complete independence and self-government. A territory existing as an independent state. Nothing in the Charter explicitly removes the sovereignty from any Member State. Each State is still legally (under that law) completely sovereign in that it still has supreme authority over itself and is legally independant. I mean, there is no "United Nations" country. However, upon agreeing to that Charter, it does mean that: Chapter I of the Charter "7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll." Additionally, upon agreeing to that Charter, Member States do forfiet some international "authority" as nicely displayed by the rest of Article 2. Are your international "liberties" legally limited by the Charter? Yup, definately. If you don't like it, leave. Your national soveriegnty is untouched unless passed in a Resolution under Chapter VII of that Charter. Here is something I want to expand on: "When a state joins the UN, it is basically agreeing to give up its sovereignty and answer to the almighty United Nations." It doesn't give up it's sovereignty, but it does give the United Nations the authority to mediate, and if necessary, prosecute (under C.VII) illegal international actions. Edit: There is a bit of fallacy in that post, so let me correct it before you reply: I'll assume you'll point out that "international policy" is a sovereign decision. And it is. However, while that policy does exist legally within each nation, the actions taken as per said policy must not violate the United Nations charter. This means, that if you violate this policy, (like the US and CoW did), you violate it (as far as I've researched) through the United Nations but not of your own sovereign international policy. This means that they cannot be legally charged in their own country, but the U.N. does have the legitimate authority to mediate, or prosecute, based on that illegality. So while this doesn't eliminate the sovereignty of a nation, it does authorize the United Nations to legally act against a nation who does violate the Charter (and/or resolutions).
warranto I swear... nodbugger is doing this simply to get us riled up. He can't possibly be THIS stupid. Don't underestimate him. There is no limit.
Even if the UN would have a certain say over what a member state can and cannot do, all member states voluntarily agreed to join, and all member states can step out any moment they want, I'm pretty sure. Therefore they have the power to take all matters back into their own hands any moment they want and are therefore souvereign.
Wh3333333 for off topic. Umm ... yay for protesters excersizing their constitutional right to free speech. Let's all hope there's no violence. Now, on to why nodbugger is buggered: Nodbugger No one broke any international laws. Well Saddam broke 14 security resolutions and countless laws, but you don't care about going after the real criminals. ... We have never broken a UN Resolution Now, despite the fact that java has posted MULTIPLE TIMES the resolution that the United States broke, and that everyone else (crimservative included) agrees that we did, you still refuse to acknowledge it because ... why? Are you just to stupid to think? Nodbugger As I said, go live in Iran, Libya, pre-war Iraq, North Korea, China, or Cuba then come back and tell me who the criminals are. Now, after he posts this challenge, and is answered according to it, what does he say? Nodbugger Well she is an Iranian, what do you expect her to say? She is brainwashed and she obviously brainwashed you. As a western citizen you must be a fucking idiot to compare Bush to the leaders of Iran and then say Bush is a war criminal. you have been brainwashed and hopefully you will get caught in Iran when we bomb it. The fuck? He says "go see how it is." Once they see how it is, and still don't agree with him, he says "She is brainwashed." Can this guy even be taken seriously? What happens when another person answers his challenge? Nodbugger Or are you going to the nice China: Tourists edition? China is just like Jamaica. You have fun in the sun Jamaica and stabbing Jamaica. Interpretation: even though you were there, you still didn't see the truth cause you disagree with me. At this point, I'm forced to conclude that you lose. You offer a challenge, it is met, and you are beaten. Rather than accepting your defeat with honor, you instead scream "NO ITS NOT RITE CUZ I NO HOW IT IS EVEN THO I NEVER BEN THEER!!" Nodbugger For a protest like that a permit is required. And there were no permits given out for the event. Not to mention the millions of dollars in taxes wasted and the police/fire/ambulance personnel diverted to the area. You can also put in there they pissed off a lot of New Yorkers. Taking all those resources away from a city like New York is a terrorist attack in itself. Interesting ... I've never heard that you need a permit to excersize your first ammendment rights ... but I digress. I was watching the news. Fox News, as a matter of fact, and the they were interviewing people in New York. Most or the New Yorkers were not pissed at the protesters. They were pissed off at the Republicans. "Why are they having their convention here? We're primarily Democrat! We don't want them here." So does that mean that the Republicans are terrorist attack in themselves? Nodbugger You can interpret it how ever you want, but at the end of the day when the people in charge of enforcing the laws don't say anything, it is OK. And don't give me that crap about if they don't say anything that doesn't mean it is legal. OF COURSE IT MEANS IT IS LEGAL! I cop doesn't pull you over to tell you that you are abiding the law. They only tell you when you are breaking it. Nodbugger I never said it isn't illegal if you get caught. If we were speeding and ever cop in the world knew about and they did nothing then there isn't a problem. See, you said it was legal if you don't get caught; or rather, that it isn't illegal if no charges are pressed. Let me give you a hypothetical situation: If Seal breaks into your house and puts a bullet in your brain, and I know he did it, but I don't press charges against him, does that mean it was legal for him to do that? Think really hard before you answer this, cause it is directly relevant to both your argument and your continued existance. Nodbugger As of now they are completely independent and they have always been a territory existing as an independent state. So when Bush himself said, "We are returning Iraq's sovereignty," what he meant was, "Even though they've always been sovereign and we're not returning anything cause you can only return something you've taken and we obviously didn't do that. Obviously." Is that what you meant? Cause it looks to me like you're the biggest idiot to ever live.
My group is peacefully protesting the protesters. As far as I'm concerned, their right to free speech shouldn't allow them to march on the streets and fuck up traffic. When the third presidential debate is held here in Phoenix, AZ, there is a designated "free speech area" at a nearby park that has been reserved for protesting, instead of blocking city streets. The fact that counter-protesters are in danger of being physically attacked just shows how psychopathic some libs can be. I've seen them on video... 25% of them are only protesting to get laid by some hot protester chick, 25% of them don't know what they're protesting, 49% can't back up their protests and answer questions with "FUCK YOU" and the like, and the other 1% will answer you with off-the wall answers about conspiracies with aliens from Mars.
What the fuck? My opinion on counter-protesting: When you do this, you're obviously seaking for trouble. Blame the freaking police, they are the ones who are blocking the roads, oh and not to mention that New-York is "Liberal town". The way you re-act over protestants blocking the streets is like when the Russians protested their king. Oh, and by the way: you can pay someone to make him say whatever you want. You can counter-protest if you want, but don't do it in their face, do it somewhere else where you'll be sure that some of the trouble-makers won't be attacking you.
hydra1945 Javaxcx All of those Member States signed the Charter. They didn't have to, but they did anyway. If you'll notice, Iraq is, and was a Member State. So they're under those same laws as well. If you have any questions about the Charter and the laws in it that everyone said "OMG OK!!!111" to, then take a read: http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/ That still doesn't change the fact that the UN strips every one of its member states of their sovereignty. When a state joins the UN, it is basically agreeing to give up its sovereignty and answer to the almighty United Nations. It is no longer a sovereign nation if it has to adhere to some "international law" that rules over that nation. No member state of the UN is sovereign, so the United States did not violate Iraq's sovereignty when it ousted Saddam's regime. The US did nothing illegal since the "international law" was meaningless to begin with. Meaningless or not, the law is the law. Therefor you have 3 choices. Put up with it, change it, or leave. America did not leave the UN, one choice gone. America did not change the law, second choice gone. Therefor America accepted the law as it is, and must abide by it. Regardless of how meaningless or rediculous it is.
Crimson The fact that counter-protesters are in danger of being physically attacked just shows how psychopathic some libs can be. I've seen them on video... 25% of them are only protesting to get laid by some hot protester chick, 25% of them don't know what they're protesting, 49% can't back up their protests and answer questions with "FUCK YOU" and the like, and the other 1% will answer you with off-the wall answers about conspiracies with aliens from Mars. I don't know where you are getting all of this from...sounds pretty silly to me. Ever stop to think that they simply oppose the views and policies of the Bush administration and want to make Bush feel unwelcome, while voicing their views? If these "counter-protesters" are protesting FOR Bush, than it would be less offensive. But you can't really protest FOR something (are you going to hold a sign that says "Good Job!"?), so the only other logical thing that you would be doing is directly protesting the protesters. And THAT is asking for trouble. I say if these counter-protesters are countered themselves with a good old fashioned ass-whomping, they will have had it coming.
Never was Iraq's severity taken away. They were always 'self governed' and never did the US take that away from them. We simply changed their leader. Which is no way violating that. Iraq is still Iraq and it will now be run by the Iraqi people. We in no way took away their sovereignty. I am not evil for not caring if an evil person died. I would not care if Saddam died or if Osama dies. I wouldn't have cared when Hitler died or when Stalin died. They were all evil people that made the world a worse place to live. There is no reason not to kill them. About the Iranian mother. If she lived there for twenty years, I'm assuming she was born there then yes she is brainwashed. Iran has a closed media and they brainwash people from the beginning. She has passed that on to you. Take some asshole out of the anti-bush protests in New York and set them down in Iran and they will never say the same things about the US as they were not so long ago. Same with China, Saddam's Iraq, North Korea, Cuba and the countless other shit holes that you fuck tards want to stay. ViperFud, you are the biggest retard ever. Yes, for a group that large you need a permit. It is a law go look it up. And no New Yorkers never said that. I can show you a video of them saying the complete opposite. They are all pissed at the protesters taking up tax money and all their security forces. Plus all the streets they are taking up. No I never said it is legal f you don't get caught. No where ever have I said that. You analogy doesn't work dumb ass. Why the fuck would you be pressing charges if I was the one killed? It doesn't work to begin with because it isn't even a similar situation. You are just pulling shit out of your ass. Bush never said we are returning Sovereignty to Iraq. He said something that your little mind may have turned into that. Because all of you are so fucking stupid you cannot even understand what someone says, the funny part is you all call him an idiot yes you cannot understand what he says. BTW Java you keep contradicting yourself with that is garble you keep posting. If the UN isn't taking away our sovereignty by taking away what we can and can't do how come we are taking away Iraq's sovereignty?
Quote: [23:19] <n00bstories_bot> What time is it? Time for Nodbugger to SHUT THE FUCK UP!
ok, take the Iraq war topics to the other thread please.
Nodbugger I am not evil for not caring if an evil person died. I would not care if Saddam died or if Osama dies. I wouldn't have cared when Hitler died or when Stalin died. They were all evil people that made the world a worse place to live. There is no reason not to kill them. That's good and all.... Except you've essentially told us something completely different from what you said on IRC last night. You said you would be glad to kill any one of those "evil dictators" as you call them. And, as Javaxcx and I proved to you last night, using your own logic, this means that you are an evil person and any one of us could kill you and not break the law if we didn't get caught. Moving on... My God can you only argue in fucking circles? Quote: No I never said it is legal f you don't get caught. No where ever have I said that. Javaxcx Nodbugger I never said it isn't illegal if you get caught. I didn't say you DID. You've implied it every time you talk about the lack of illegality dispite the overwhelming evidence stating otherwise. Got that now? Quote: BTW Java you keep contradicting yourself with that is garble you keep posting. I hardly see how you can call anyone for "contradicting" theirselves when you can't even accept when you're wrong.
http://www.protestwarrior.com/signs.php?thumb=1 These are the sorts of signs used to protest the protesters. They take their whacked-out logic to the next level to show them the ridiculousness of their messages.
"Help! I'm surrounded by American Hating Idiots!" Im sick and tired of the lame excuse that protesters "hate America". I'm sure some do...but MOST people are protesting because they want to improve America.
150 Canadian protesters joined them and I'm not blamming them.
Aprime 150 Canadian protesters joined them and I'm not blamming them. So they joined on accident?