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If I remember right, the ramjet you got in SP only had 1 shot per clip. That would also explain why the ramjet you get from drop mods on some servers has only 1 shot per clip. Everyone says the Ramjet is way to powerful, and I usually agree. But what if it was meant to only have 1 shot per clip because it's so powerful? And the 4 shots was just a preset bug they copied from the Sniper Rifle, or something to that affect. What I'm saying it, should Ramjets be modified to have only 1 shot per clip? Even if it was just only the seperate BHS levels. It would solve a lot of balance issues, like Aircraft being killed so easily. They'd no longer have enough time to load up 5 shots and kill it so quickly. Same goes for light armored vehicles. What do you think?
That's a really good idea, actually... I don't know why nobody ever thought of that. This would probably please everybody, even the skill-less n00bjetters.
I agree, it would also slow the n00bs going aroung a base with the barracks down killing baisic infantry like flies...
Pendullum I agree, it would also slow the n00bs going aroung a base with the barracks down killing baisic infantry like flies... I love doing that though >: ) Suppose this will be done, i would limit clipsize to two bullets instead, not one. [/edit] [zunnie]
hum.. interesting idea. it would solve a lot of balence problems i say go for it!
I'd agree with it too. Although I still think the n00bjet is too powerful, at least it gives you a bit of a fighting chance.
Hmm yeah thats a good concept, and you may well be right, Because the ramjet, apart from the scope, has nothing to do with sniper rifle, it does too much damage for a sniper rifle. Also has anyone else seen the Havoc and Ramjet models Westwood DID make for Renegade but changed in the last week or whatever before they realised it? maybe this is why, maybe they rushed it and messed up? Also look at this: http://www.planetcnc.com/renegade/gameinfo/weapons/ I wonder why they gave all the weapons different names? I've never seen any reason Oh and heres a picture of the ramjet i was on about: http://www.cnc-source.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=909&s=6bd5ca5d2004a8d487839f72e8ddf317 And they changed the Sniper scope too it seems: http://www.cnc-source.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=952&s=6bd5ca5d2004a8d487839f72e8ddf317 And the old havoc: http://www.cnc-source.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=893&s=af00249b4f358ea6c088e78648681f91
All of those names are the "nicknames" given to the weapons. They can be found in the manual.
I think the clip should be reduced to 1 bullet. The only reason it might have 4 would be for close range combat which its not in anyway ment for. Its sole purpose is long range sniping.
In the beta, the ramjet had 8 bullets. It was changed to 4 for balance purposes. I wouldn't buy something that cost $1000 when it could only fire a single shot. with rave/sydney that's ok because.........fuck, who am I kidding. great idea! I think it's fair to say it should still have 2 bullets though, and something like this shouldn't be fucked with until the first balance changed maps have came out.
One shot would be better, then you don't have that rapid fire succession of blue streaks. It would also take some skill on non-free men as well, because they would have more time to get you unless you got a headshot.
With 1 bullet you cant afford to miss sometimes... Im busy right now to apply this on the FanMaps servers (server side that is) to limit clipsize to 2 bullets and max.invent to 34 instead of 32. Will need a few games at least to see if its really a good idea i suppose. A problem would be the 500$ sniper though, he will own ramjet snipers then i think.. Could be wrong.. I maybe give a 500$ sniper clipsize 3 then (or maybe increase costs to 600-650$ and leave 4 clipsize alone). First gonna see if this 2 bullet clipsize is a good idea for ramjet. [zunnie]
Sounds really good, zunnie. Can't wait to see the results.
That's the point though, any skilled person using a 500 sniper should be able to pwn other infantry. The n00bjet just does too much damage to everything. The current solution was to make it a sniper only, and make it not damage vehicles. But I don't think it was meant to be a real sniper. Giving it 1 shot makes the damage more realistic, and just because it has a scope doesn't mean it's a sniper rifle either. 1 shot will still take away over half of any infantries health, kill basic infantry, and deal 20% damage to any light armored vehicle. That is plenty powerful enough.
visorneon Hmm yeah thats a good concept, and you may well be right, Because the ramjet, apart from the scope, has nothing to do with sniper rifle, it does too much damage for a sniper rifle. Also has anyone else seen the Havoc and Ramjet models Westwood DID make for Renegade but changed in the last week or whatever before they realised it? maybe this is why, maybe they rushed it and messed up? Also look at this: http://www.planetcnc.com/renegade/gameinfo/weapons/ I wonder why they gave all the weapons different names? I've never seen any reason Oh and heres a picture of the ramjet i was on about: http://www.cnc-source.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=909&s=6bd5ca5d2004a8d487839f72e8ddf317 And they changed the Sniper scope too it seems: http://www.cnc-source.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=952&s=6bd5ca5d2004a8d487839f72e8ddf317 And the old havoc: http://www.cnc-source.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=893&s=af00249b4f358ea6c088e78648681f91 Much in the game was changed when Dan Cermak joined as the Exec Producer. Originally, there was no Ramjet. There was only the Sniper rifle, which was based on the M82 Special Application Scoped Rifle. *cough* Plug: If you want the stuff that was in the game (and much more), maybe you should take a look at Commando.
zunnie A problem would be the 500$ sniper though, he will own ramjet snipers then i think They do anyway, since the majority of people who buy a ramjet to "snipe" can't aim for shit
Exactly, and I'm sick of seeing skill-less shitheads getting mass amounts of bodyshot kills, then bragging about how good they are. This would put them in their place...
The 1 bullet ramjet is weaker then the 4 bullet one, try shooting a light vehicle with it and you will see what i mean. It's the same as a sniper rifle bullet.
Naamloos The 1 bullet ramjet is weaker then the 4 bullet one, try shooting a light vehicle with it and you will see what i mean. It's the same as a sniper rifle bullet. That would make it better still.. I think it still takes 2 shots to kill advanced infantry, and it would make it a bit better if it did less damage to orcas. Although if you are good enough, you can take down sakuras/havocs down in one in no time.
I thought Renalert's sniper in .9925 had only 1 clip, but I think they changed it back to 4 in the latest patch. I don't know why exactly they changed it back. Anyway's I'm afraid that by giving the ramjet a limit of 2, or 3. It might get less powerfull then the 500 sniper against infantry, wich is basicly the only thing I have against this idea.
Weirdo Anyway's I'm afraid that by giving the ramjet a limit of 2, or 3. It might get less powerfull then the 500 sniper against infantry, wich is basicly the only thing I have against this idea. That's the point. The 500 sniper is the real sniper, and should be the main anti-infantry unit. Right now Havocs and Sakuras are anti-everything x4. Bringing it down to 1 would balance things a lot more. Or maybe 2 shots, but with a slower rate of fire.
Doesnt giving it a clip size of 1 just make it a rubbish alternative to the Sydney/Ravenshaw without the anti tank ability but increased range and slightly larger clip size. If you reduced the clip size to 1 I see know reason to want to use it over a Sydney or Ravenshaw. I dont see much wrong with the Ramjet, yes its a bit overpowered but it does cost 1000, twice as much as a normal sniper, does twice as much damage and has more health. Yeah its annoying when your Hand/Bar dies and you get picked off like flies, but dont let it die, then you wont have the problem.
if you made a multiplayer game with 2 sides and gave them all weapons that could tear the living hell out of each other in 1 shot, and vehicles that could do the same, but only as long as they had a building intact..would it be right that when one team loses one of those buildings and gets given really weak characters, the other team gets to incinerate everything without fear of death because they blew that structure up?
When the point of the game is to kill your opponents base then yes. Thats the point of Renegade, to kill your opposing team's base and to protect yours. Whats the point when you lose your structure that you receive no disadvantage from it. It might as well not exist because its not doing anything. Each building in Renegade serves a purpose. Refinery gives you cash, Bar/Hand gives you advanced infantry, WF/Strip gives you Vehicles, AGT/Obi give base defence and Power Plant powers buildings (and keeps costs down). If these buildings didnt do any purpose other than to be there you might as well just defend 1 building because the other 4 do nothing. This game is about keeps your base alive and destroying the enemy's. If you cant do that then you have to face the consequences.
Oh of course, the bar died, so that means everyone must suffer from n00bs with with ramjets :rolleyes: You can't tell me you don't notice how many more people immediatly switch to a ramjet after the bar/hon dies, just so they can sit in one spot killing basic infantry for the rest of the game. Then again, you're one of them, so why should I be surprised...
flyingfox would it be right that when one team loses one of those buildings and gets given really weak characters, the other team gets to incinerate everything without fear of death because they blew that structure up? Uh.... yea? They killed your building that allowed you to purchase that type of charecter.. don't let them kill it next time, and the game will remain balanced..
That logic doesn't work with an overpowered unit. People said the same thing about Yuri in Yuri's Revenge, "don't let yuri build naval" Problem is, you can't do shit about it, once he has Boomers the game is basically over. Similar to n00b cannons, once there's more than three the team using them will probably win. There's no reason to attack when that happens. The hundreds of points they get off your tank is not balanced out by the points you get from hitting their buildings a few times before their forces take you out.
Aircraftkiller The hundreds of points they get off your tank is not balanced out by the points you get from hitting their buildings a few times before their forces take you out. Couldn't you say the same of if they had 3+ PICs? Or even gunners? Don't get me wrong, I hate the damage and points n00bjets get against vehicles...just playing devils advocate
Yes, you could say that... but you expect that with a PIC/Railgun and Rocket men. It is an anti-tank weapon after all, whist the n00bjet is not.
Renx Oh of course, the bar died, so that means everyone must suffer from n00bs with with ramjets :rolleyes: You can't tell me you don't notice how many more people immediatly switch to a ramjet after the bar/hon dies, just so they can sit in one spot killing basic infantry for the rest of the game. Then again, you're one of them, so why should I be surprised... Obviously because I'm not a known face here I'm a noob. Just because I say something different to what you think obviously makes me a crap player. Guess what, I actually know how to play this game, I actually know how to snipe. Yes I do notice that lots of people starting buying havocs/sakuras when the Bar/Hand dies to kill whore but let them do that. If there are lots of Havoc's out there then get a APC and go mow them all down. When im sniping and an APC comes towards me I dont immediately start thinking lets whore this APC for points, I run away because I want to stay alive and Im sure most will too. Anyway, if there are 3/4/5 havoc/sak's sitting outside your base its not gonna matter how big there clip is, most basic infantry are still gonna die. If you dont want n00bjet's whoring over your base, dont let your base die and you wont have to worry. You win this game countering your opponent and what they do, if your opposition sniper whores then get some tanks and go and blast there base to bits or go get some shotgunners and sneak up on them. Yes the noobjet is slightly overpowered, but what you suggest just makes it worthless.
Quote: You can't tell me you don't notice how many more people immediatly switch to a ramjet after the bar/hon dies Yea lol LMFAO >: ) hahaha We just addicted to the "boink" sound lol There is nothing in Renegade that pleases me more [zunnie]
Its stupid two have two different snipers in the first place. Its sad to see how the game was so good and then made shitty. It looked so much better before. They should just be takin from the game. Or be like the commandos in Renalert have a c4 that takes out a building and an ok close range weapon.
Aircraftkiller That logic doesn't work with an overpowered unit. People said the same thing about Yuri in Yuri's Revenge, "don't let yuri build naval" Problem is, you can't do shit about it, once he has Boomers the game is basically over. Similar to n00b cannons, once there's more than three the team using them will probably win. There's no reason to attack when that happens. The hundreds of points they get off your tank is not balanced out by the points you get from hitting their buildings a few times before their forces take you out. Not on my servers Get a ramjet on my server, shoot a tank for points, and see how long you stay in the game for.
Agreed. One sniper is enough, one that takes skill to use.
It doesnt take any less skill to use a ramjet than a normal sniper. The ramjet just does more damage.
Therefore you need half as much skill to kill people, don't you?
If you are truly skilled at sniping, you'd know that the head is a one shot kill - regardless of using a n00bjet or regular sniper rifle. Many skilled players will choose the standard sniper over the n00bjet.
The logic behind using a ramjet for the sole purpose of killing all the basic infantry in one shot, is no better than cheating in my opinion. People don't like a challenge anymore I guess, they just want others to drool over their "most kills" rec. :rolleyes:
cokemaster If you are truly skilled at sniping, you'd know that the head is a one shot kill - regardless of using a n00bjet or regular sniper rifle. Many skilled players will choose the standard sniper over the n00bjet. Right, I much prefer the Black Hand Sniper, or Deadeye over n00bjets, It auctually takes skill to kill people with the Sniper Rifle.
I prefer PIC/Raveshaw to snipe...... People always say: "WTF!! You are cheating!" (Cos I only make headshots.... )
Just saying, i dont know if it has been said in this tread, the ramjet was choicen as the counter attack weapon, (e.g against orcas, mrls, buggies, apache, mobile art, humvee) and if it only had 1 sniper bullet, killing a orca is impossible , and on maps like walls_flying, its soooo hard to kill them, becoz they fly off and heal, and there is no base defense in another aspect, id prefer it too have one bullet, becoz then in sniping games, people would distance snipe, not just dance in the tunnels
On the FanMaps1 server i set the Artillery armor to a Medium Tank type one, same for the MRLS which also has 5pt/2sec health regeneration now. The points ramjets get for hitting them are the same but the vehs are not destroyed as easily with 3 ramjetters shooting at it than it would be with the regular armor and no regeneration. A medium tank or whatever tank takes out the Armor pretty easily. Once they lose their armor its piece of cake to take them out with ramjets. A ramjet shot takes off 10 Armor pts per shot from the Artilerry and the MRLS. For those interested you can read more about the serverside mod on FanMaps1 here: http://mod.fanmaps.net/ Its still being worked on so its certainly not the final version [zunnie]
The best way to take out an arty isn't the ramjet, it has never been the ramjet (unless you've got lots of them at the other end of the field --- I'm talking in more individual terms here) Med has ALWAYS done a better job of killing arties than the ramjet. So does an MRLS at long range (if you're ELiTE with an MRLS, which the vast majority of players aren't), and occasionally the mammoth (in the right situation) Taking out orcas/apaches... The best anti-aircraft weapon isn't the ramjet, it's simply to buy an orca/apache yourself. Granted Nod has the disadvantage here, but a skilled apache can take out an orca too. Other options: Raveshaw/PICs work well, and I personally don't find it difficult raping an orca with a light tank, but that's just me. My point is that this move won't unbalance the game, it's not like the best weapon for a particular purpose is being removed.
I think that's the crux of the argument, the ramjet is not a specialized weapon like everything else. It's good at too much stuff to make the game fair. If I get close to a Deadeye/Blackhand with a Patch, it's an even contest. It's not like that vs. a ramjet. Personally, I think the damage vs. vehicles should be scaled back, not much but make it take 2 whole clips to kill an orca.
So if i used a ramjet to kill you, I'm a n00b with no skills cause i use a havoc? *cough*whiners*cough* You are given a choice to use either the ramjet or blackhand. You chose to use the blackhand instead of the ramjet. you chose the one with a disadvantage, then you get killed by 2 body shots and you what? Complain that the ramjet is more powerful and it isn't fair? What? Racing,You can choose engine 1, which is less powerful, or engine 2, which is more powerful. You choose the lousy less power engine and in the end you lost, but its not your fault, I mean its the one with the more powerful engines fault right? So you complain 'Make that engine less powerful Its too powerful.. ITS CHEATING!!!! It takes more skill to drive with a less powerful engine and stay on the road than driving with a more powerful engine and stay on the road. ' If you're soooooo good, why not just take the havoc out with a headshot with your l33t skills? This is exactly the same with comparing minigunner and the minigunner officer. Why not just complain that the minigunner officer does too much damage?
NeoX Its stupid two have two different snipers in the first place. Its sad to see how the game was so good and then made shitty. It looked so much better before. They should just be takin from the game. Or be like the commandos in Renalert have a c4 that takes out a building and an ok close range weapon. If this game is so 'shitty', then don't play it.
That's what the majority of gamers have done, fortunately.
I don't know if there ever was an official poll about the n00b cannon, but it's time to make one, fix it, or don't? Give it 1 bullet ffs.
we can look at this a different way. going as far back as handicaps for beginners, back in the days of Goldeneye for the nintendo 64 you could put handicaps on players in multiplayer games. The handicap was set at 100% by default, and could go as far as 1000%. It could even be adjusted below 100 so you'd have even less health. I used to play this beginner who lived around my relatives. i'd set his handicap very high, like 800% or more. we could theorise that in a ratio sense it would take me 10 bullets to kill him as opposed to 1 bullet to kill me. me, being the far better player, would have something of an even fight. if I were to set my handicap as high as his, i'd easily kill him and it wouldn't be fair game. BUT, if I set the handicap lower, i'd enjoy the challenge. it's the same deal with renegade. the weapons are not all balanced in that while one weapon has advantages in one area, another is weaker in that area but stronger in another. a good example of this is Call of Duty online. the weapon specifics are divided into four categories: range rate of fire damage mobility a weapon such as a bolt action rifle will have a slow rate of fire, due to it's bolt action mechanism. but, the damage will be high, and could even kill someone in a single bullet. the range will be very high. the mobility will be about even, and slower than that of a pistol. but, something like a thompson submachine gun will have short range, being inaccurate at a distance. it'll have a high rate of fire, medium damage, and high mobility, meaning you can run quickly with it. The rifle shall excel at accurate long range cover, while the thompson excels in close range combat and quick kills. in short, most of the weapons balance out with each other in these terms. In renegade, there's less of a balance. everyone moves at the same speed, there's no muzzle climb on the weapons, you pay more you'll get a better weapon than that of a less costly soldier. the justification of the ramjet is that it costs a thousand apiece. when someone pays a thousand credits for one, they're allowed to have the advantages of a raveshaw and sniper combined, with improvements in ammo count, accuracy and ease of kill. for real, when you go onto the bridge on city fly, you'll rack up a thousand points without trouble while keeping all but the best threats off your chest. i couldn't sit there with a straight face and say my unit is as balanced as a raveshaw/mobius in it's own right, or say one team should fall victim to incredibly easy kills. the only time someone should die in one hit is from a headshot or from a unit firing a single shot with a long reload. http://thefud.brinkster.net/sakura.asp http://thefud.brinkster.net/syd2.asp http://thefud.brinkster.net/raveshaw.asp note that the ramjet rifle fires four bullets in one clip and reloads even quicker than a railgun a PIC or railgun, wherein the railgun and pic prosper in vehicle damage. if you go further into the math, a railgun will take over double the time to do the damage a ramjet can do in one clip. what kind of balance is that? just study the stats and see for yourself. if you do not think the ramjet is unbalanced you should play 3 subsequent games in a large server (12 v 12 or more), first using mobius, then pic, then havoc. better yet, play the same map with all of them. take down the scores at the end and see how easy you find the game to play. If you were correct in that they are all balanced, you should find roughly the same difficulty level in all the units. if people didn't find a huge ease in gameplay with a ramjet they wouldn't use it so much.
flyingfox the justification of the ramjet is that it costs a thousand apiece. when someone pays a thousand credits for one, they're allowed to have the advantages of a raveshaw and sniper combined, with improvements in ammo count, accuracy and ease of kill. If you put it that way, then it should cost over 1500 credits. A raveshaw already costs 1000, plus the sniper which costs 500, then all the other bonus' you mentioned. Downsizing the clip size seems like a better solution to me
Maybe this is just me but when i played renegade i found that i was better with the sniper rifle than the Ramjet, it just seemed heavier, i dont know what it was i guess its just b/c thats what i always used. Basically just move sakura and havocs cost to like 1200 or limit ammo to 2-3. Most people that I have encountered and use ramjets( not saying that everyone who uses a rammy is a n00b) are Newbies so... they just suck and i kill them easily.
The problem i have with this is that you're going to make the ramjet only 1 bullet. Isn't that stupid? If you're gonna make it 1 bullet, increase the damage, so that 1 hit = 1 kill for any unit. If you're talking about balance issues, why not talk about the apache and the orca? Both costs the same. But apache has a disadvantage. Now you wonder why no one has brought this up :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Isn't it obvious this isn't about balance issues but an excuse to tone down what the havoc can do so that your black hand can own? About the points from shooting tanks. Tone it down. I don't care. but you jooly well turn down the points that blackhand gets from shooting at tanks too. After, since Havocs can get so much hell of points, i don't see why blackhands, earning half the amount of that so much hell of points, would be so little right??? :rolleyes:
tanhm07 If you're gonna make it 1 bullet, increase the damage, so that 1 hit = 1 kill for any unit. That would be completely pointless. Part of the reason for changing the clip is because it's already so powerful... It's just an excuse for n00bs so they can call themselves good..
lol, i know, wtf is that...if i could kill a man by shooting his finger or toe, think of the massacres.. oh, wait..
Think of it this way. If you're gonna let havoc only have 1 shot, what's the point of buying havoc anymore? I pay 1k for a gun that fires one shot and does shit damage?
Go get a .50 caliber rifle, jump in the air, then fire it. When you're done come and tell us how you feel. The fact that he can do that 4 times is just silly. Shit damage? last time I checked he did 200 damage to all infantry, and could kill light armored vehicles in just 5 shots. If that's shit damage, then I don't know what game you've been playing. Taking 2 shots out of the clip seems reasonable. Maybe uping his total ammo count to 40 or something to make up for it a bit too. The main point is getting that clip size down.
The main point is that if you're gonna make him have 1 shot per clip, increase the damage he does. But if you're gonna make him have 2 shots per clip, then don't change anything to his damage. Simple enough to understand?
Renx Go get a .50 caliber rifle, jump in the air, then fire it. When you're done come and tell us how you feel. The fact that he can do that 4 times is just silly. Go get yourself hit in the chest with a .50 caliber rifle. When you're done come tell us how you feel, if you haven't died. Or maybe your hp goes down by 200 and you still can run about like nothing happened because your hp hasn't reached 0. This is renegade. This is a game. This is not real life.
Exactly, and no amount of "waah i want my n00b cannon because im a fucking lamer" whining will change that tanhm...
Any air vehicle should be able to win vs a sak/havoc. I do agree with the insane points they get. I also think if you shoot any tank with it, it should be 1 point, a stank visible should be 1 also, but invisible...like 5. I think it should be 6 shots to kill a orca/apache too.
You don't even give any reasons why you think that way. I guarantee if WS hadn't of fumbled the ball by making the n00b cannon "sniper" units anti-everything, your position would change entirely.
Homey Any air vehicle should be able to win vs a sak/havoc. I do agree with the insane points they get. I also think if you shoot any tank with it, it should be 1 point, a stank visible should be 1 also, but invisible...like 5. I think it should be 6 shots to kill a orca/apache too. I actually don't think it's pointless to shoot on a stealth tank with a sniper though (n00bjet or otherwise). Let's say you are scouting in the field, and you see your team preparing to attack with mediums, but you also see two stealths heading their way. To raise their awareness, you can shoot on the stealth tank, because, although not making them lose their stealthiness, it does make the stealth effect more visible, which can help your teammates to identify it.
A pistol would be more effective for that. You only see a stealth tank within the range of your pistol anyway.
I don't see what's good about driving into the field with a Medium Tank and losing half your armor in 15 seconds, just because of about five camping Sakuras whoring on you. It's like, anyone who doesn't want it to be changed is leaving out all of the major issues and are only talking about the little stuff they like, such as "you CAN avoid snipers if you try" or "just buy a sniper and kill them back" which are dumbass reasons that don't compare to our reasons AT ALL. It's all pathetic, and obviously anyone who doesn't want them changed are those idiotic whoring bastards. I'm wondering if it's possible to actually remove the reticle for the sniper rifle so you're forced to use the scope. It's like that in a lot of games today, and it would actually seem like a real sniper. I'm extremely doubting it's possible, but I will ask Jonwil about it.
Renx A pistol would be more effective for that. You only see a stealth tank within the range of your pistol anyway. I think you can see them from further if you zoom in with the scope?
icedog, let's not forget how long buggies/humm-vees survive with just one or two n00b cannons shooting away. The only units that should be chipping that much off of vehicles are characters with anti vehicle armory, not instant-hitting, no-skill sniper rifles. when spotted by a n00bjet, either vehicle will have about 7 seconds to either kill them or get out of sight. let's not forget lag, which tends to give them another half second over you.
Aircraftkiller You don't even give any reasons why you think that way. I guarantee if WS hadn't of fumbled the ball by making the n00b cannon "sniper" units anti-everything, your position would change entirely. It's too balance those n00bcrafts that everyone also uses too much. :rolleyes:
About the thin of the Ramjet in SP. Everybody says the Ramjet wasn't in SP, well, it was. Last mission: on top of the Airstrip, a Black Hand Sniper with a Ramjet...
And in that same mission on top of the CC... but i have never seen one on the air strip tho. And you have to make a "cheat" to really use it yourself, as enemy snipers droped them on places you couldn't get to.
Slash0x Aircraftkiller You don't even give any reasons why you think that way. I guarantee if WS hadn't of fumbled the ball by making the n00b cannon "sniper" units anti-everything, your position would change entirely. It's too balance those n00bcrafts that everyone also uses too much. :rolleyes: The "n00b" craft is harder to control then a n00b cannon, that's just aim and fire.
Naamloos Slash0x Aircraftkiller You don't even give any reasons why you think that way. I guarantee if WS hadn't of fumbled the ball by making the n00b cannon "sniper" units anti-everything, your position would change entirely. It's too balance those n00bcrafts that everyone also uses too much. :rolleyes: The "n00b" craft is harder to control then a n00b cannon, that's just aim and fire. Aircrafts move in all dimensions, tanks/other vehicles can only stay on ground. Most of their aims aren't able to shoot directly above the vehicle. The aircrafts have endless amount of ammunition and missiles (never has to reload). Only a few shots can kill 1,000 dollar infantry. Like that's all fair?
I never sead they where fair, but the n00b cannons only need one shot to kill a basic infantry, but an orca a few bullets and apache even less. Giving infantry atleast a chance to run or fight back, since the range of the aircraft is nothing compared to that of the n00b cannon.
Except you actually have to be skilled in order to use aircraft like that, unlike the n00bjet...
Sniper's range ise pretty much unlimited and instant in Renegade. No skill required to shoot down aircraft with a n00b cannon, just 5 shots... The aircraft have very little armour and are pretty much doomed when there are two n00bcannoners sitting around taking pop shots at aircraft where ever they may fly. They can hide in a civilian structure or inside one of their own buildings when the aircraft get too close and go inside to refill if they happen to take damage from your spray of bullets. It's lame.
I'd say if the armor was increased, then reduce the power of the n00bcraft missiles and machinegun. For example, if the armor was doubled, half the power of the aircrafts' weapons (so you still have some sort of balance). For infantry, the only thing I could say is don't get hit. I hardly get hit by a n00bjet, so as far as I know, it's not that hard to dodge. Overall, I'm usually the 500 dollar sniper anyways. Who needs body shots when you get a lot of HSs.
500$ snipers should do 0 damage to vehicles, and the n00b cannons only a little bit. Increase the range of the PIC/rail gun, those are the anti vehicle weapons, not the n00b cannon.
Damage vs aircraft... A LOT.. Points gained... TOO MANY..
Naamloos 500$ snipers should do 0 damage to vehicles, and the n00b cannons only a little bit. Increase the range of the PIC/rail gun, those are the anti vehicle weapons, not the n00b cannon. But "vehicles" isn't the primary problem. The main contrivoursy (I know I spelled that wrong, lol) is the "n00b"jets and the "n00b"crafts. Ravs and Pics already do enough damage by ones self...
I don't think there is a way to change peoples minds about this. n00b cannons are unbalanced, end discussion
Renegade was designed the way it was because that is how they made it. Play the game and get over it...
The playing part is a little hard when you get killed in 1 shot each time you get out of a tunnel... :rolleyes: Or your light vehicle getting raped by a rain of bleu bullets
Slash0x Renegade was designed the way it was because that is how they made it. Play the game and get over it... Only because of Dan Cermak. The REAL original Renegade was totally different.
Westwood Studios as a whole had a large part in shitting over Renegade. It wasn't just Dan.
IMHO, you guys are going about this the wrong way. Why not change the ROF and reload rate instead? That way, you get a weapon that's powerful, but slow.
You know what is ironic? the n00bjet reloads faster then the regular Sniper Rifle...
EatMyCar You know what is ironic? the n00bjet reloads faster then the regular Sniper Rifle... This can be changed, PROBABLY serverside as well (not sure). Only "bug" that would occur: The "reloading animation" finishes on the Player screen and appears as if he can he can fire again. But in fact he gotto wait a bit longer be4 being able to fire again...
zunnie EatMyCar You know what is ironic? the n00bjet reloads faster then the regular Sniper Rifle... This can be changed, PROBABLY serverside as well (not sure). Only "bug" that would occur: The "reloading animation" finishes on the Player screen and appears as if he can he can fire again. But in fact he gotto wait a bit longer be4 being able to fire again... not a problem, half the time the enemy shoots when they appear to be reloading anyway.
The ramjet is seems to be an antimaterial weapon similar to the ones used by the US Special forces for damaging expensive enemy equipment, rendering it completely useless. This requires a large amount of power, and a long range making it, in essence, a souped up sniper rifle. For this reason, I think it makes sence to have the Ramjet left with a four round clip. The average clip size for the standard sniper rifle in real life, I think ranges from around 5-6 or possibly even seven rounds giving it a clear advantage over the anti-material weapons when it comes to taking down infantry. However, in Renegade, the standard sniper rifle clip is a measly 4 rounds. Another reason why I think the 'noobjet' should be left with 4 round clips is that when the enemy stages an MRL or Artillary rush with at least helf-descent back up, the best chance of surviving the attack are Hawkeyes and Sakuras wielding anti-material weapons. The reason for this is that anti-material weapons are designed specifically to get off a few quick shots at a lightly armored objects or vehicles to put it out of commision. So, keeping this in mind it is understandable how the Ramjet would prove to be so sucsesful against aircraft and infantry body armor. If anything the effect of the Ramjet is diminished because in real life, a bullet fired from one of these guns doesn't even actually have to hit you to damage or even kill you. The reason for this is that the bullet travels throught the air so fast, it creates a shockwave of sorts in the air strong enough to kill you. Of course, sniper rifles also have this same effect, although not as strong. Also, when being swarmed by 500 snipers, I find that employing a Ramjet is most often my best shot at putting a dent in the enemies attack plans.
FoxURA The ramjet is seems to be an antimaterial weapon similar to the ones used by the US Special forces for damaging expensive enemy equipment, rendering it completely useless. This requires a large amount of power, and a long range making it, in essence, a souped up sniper rifle. For this reason, I think it makes sence to have the Ramjet left with a four round clip. The average clip size for the standard sniper rifle in real life, I think ranges from around 5-6 or possibly even seven rounds giving it a clear advantage over the anti-material weapons when it comes to taking down infantry. However, in Renegade, the standard sniper rifle clip is a measly 4 rounds. Another reason why I think the 'noobjet' should be left with 4 round clips is that when the enemy stages an MRL or Artillary rush with at least helf-descent back up, the best chance of surviving the attack are Hawkeyes and Sakuras wielding anti-material weapons. The reason for this is that anti-material weapons are designed specifically to get off a few quick shots at a lightly armored objects or vehicles to put it out of commision. So, keeping this in mind it is understandable how the Ramjet would prove to be so sucsesful against aircraft and infantry body armor. If anything the effect of the Ramjet is diminished because in real life, a bullet fired from one of these guns doesn't even actually have to hit you to damage or even kill you. The reason for this is that the bullet travels throught the air so fast, it creates a shockwave of sorts in the air strong enough to kill you. Of course, sniper rifles also have this same effect, although not as strong. Sigh... This part of the argument comes up AGAIN... If a ramjet "can" kill a light aircraft or vehicle such as a Hummvee in a few shots, why doesn't a Railgun or a Rocket soldier kill it in one shot?
Why would you pull the "realism" card? Renegade is not real. Notice the tiberium? NOT REAL. Fact remains lower the 'n00bjet' to be not as good against aircraft and i wouldn't mind, just that you wouldn't stand a chance against my copter considering i can already do well against one and even 2 snipers at a time. People complain about their copters getting shot to shit from the sky when they're too stupid to know how to pilot one. out of playing renegade for the years that I have... I've learned to *STRATEGICALLY* gain advantages over snipers in many such cases. 1. The fact that you have mobility and a sniper does not makes you capable of getting behind cover (whatever there is, because I'm sure there was some intention of putting objects in certain places) 2. That you can repair faster than a ramjet can kill you. This makes the sniper pretty much either have to aim for your person repairing (if he can hit it) or keep shooting and hope for some back up to help, because if he doesn't the copter can either run away or try and kill the sniper 3. Don't fly around the map way on top, be more cautious and you'll notice a difference in your deaths 4.. There are many more tactics you can use to have great advantages over snipers... you just have to be smart. You can't complain about people killing you all the time when it's somewhat your fault to begin with. I rarely ever notice anyone with the brains to know how to pilot copters and not get owned and I always think to myself "why do they even bother?..." You are NOT going to be successful with copters if you go out and don't bother to be careful and smart. on a side note why did everyone sort of skip where the one guy posted about why do people care so much about getting killed by 'n00bjets' I mean seriously if a guy is a n00b then in all truth and honesty he shouldn't be very hard to kill. and it would be just as even as to just use a 1000 dollar character yourself. They cost 1000 dollars so you act like if he died that's no major difference when in fact it's a big loss. If you go into a game that's on field or something and you get a 1000 and get headshotted then you have no money. There are advantages and disadvantages to both snipers. The 500 can kill in one hit just as well as the 1000 can, at the cost of half the price. Similarily the 1000 only takes 2 body shots to kill someone, at the cost of TWICE the money. So it's more of a gamble on which do you want. I'm not really either better in one or the other just that I don't complain about a stupid unit that's been out for 3 years and then get all fussy about it. Why do you need to change everything in renegade? I was in a CTF server the other day that the engineers shot ob guns and all you needed to do was aim at the person foot and the splash was so big you could probably have killed 10 people if they were all near eachother. and it begs to ask the question on why do we need to change so many stuff and why we couldn't leave some things alone. I don't know what else to say other than to end this stupid debate and just leave the units alone as they have been and don't rub salt in the wound by changing everything in renegade as your will wants
if the ramjet damage scale was down, other fixes would adhere to the change. or at least I would think so. just read through the topic and you will c what they are. also I edited this because I have an idea: what if you were to make aircraft completely unrepairable except for their helipad?? this would stop them from doing that hide and repair crap and force them to return to their base.
"this would stop them from doing that hide and repair crap and force them to return to their base." This is bad?
Yes of course it is bad. do you think soldiers enjoy shooting at aircraft when they know it'll retreat with low health, land on a skyscraper or behind a wall and repair in a manner of seconds only to repeat the procedure? it's impossible to destroy the damn things without vehicles or classes when they keep retreating in low health. there really is no point in playing if it comes to that.
which is exactly why god made snipers/pic/rave - weakening the ramjet would only help the guy with the copter - as for with base infantry the whole point of having base infantry is to do practically no damage (hence the cost is 0) The ramjets are fine. The copters are fine. Why dig a hole deeper that's already been dug too far