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Should we fix jumping on barracks on Canyon?
Due to a exploit, you can jump on the GDI Insignia on top of the barracks on Canyon, and lay a nuke on top of the barracks. It is difficult to disarm. Many people see this as a valid tactic, but technically it is a exploit because you are not supposed to be up there. There has been some discussion inside the team, if we should fix this or not. We're a little undecided. Hence we are asking the community what you think. We can't promise this will go into CP1, but we would still like your opinion on this.
Nah, this is a very well known -tactic- Alot of people know about this and almost everyone use it whenever they can. So this is a 'No, dont fix it' for me [zunnie]
It was never intended that way. Therefore it needs to be fixed.
From what I understand the level author intended the signboard to have an infantry blocker but forgot to add it in or something. I've used it to beacon before but it's unarguably an exploit and therefore needs to be fixed. The only people who would argue not to fix it would be people used to doing it, which are invalid points because they're only used to doing something which is already an exploit. It's the same thing like wall jumping, people argue not to fix walljumping because they are used to using it and errorneously consider it a tactic. If the author of any level didn't intend for something to be done, then it sohuldn't be done, regardless of how many people think it's valid.
no, dont fix it, ive disarmed loads of nukes up there
It mattered three years ago...let's alter the gameplay to make something that's been done before for all this time and make it so they lose that tactic. Hum. No.
The only way you are allowed to get on a Barracks roof is using the ramps in flying levels. I say fix it.
Fix it. I know for a FACT that Tse-Cheng would have given you something reliable to get on were you meant to climb on the Infantry Barracks roof. Jumping up there only works 40% of the time, and if more than one person is trying it, you normally fail. That should tell you something. Furthermore, anytime a Nuclear Strike Beacon is laid up there, by the time you actually make it you're probably too late to disarm it. It doesn't matter if you find it fun to use, it wasn't intended to be there - it fucks up game balance by giving you an easy way out to using your n00b Stealth Black Hand to hide almost undetected with little fear of retaliation, unless someone gets a vehicle on the ramps behind you and sweeps the top with fire... Which doesn't disarm what you just laid down.
40% of the time? Maybe if you lack discipline. If you're going to fix that, fix the bug there where you can beacon the Airstrip from the top of the bunker or the fact that you can jump on the back of the WF and beacon as well, otherwise don't bother fixing any of them. While you're at it, fix all the levels where you can teamjump onto the tops of stuff you can't get on either, if we're all worried about making things how they were intended.
I would be fine with it being fixed, although I like to get on the barracks roof with a mobius...great for fending off Flame Tanks. More importantly, we should fix the exploit that allows anyone to jump onto the WF roof from the bridge on that same map. Beacons planted there are all but impossible to find in time, I know some people who plant them there regularly and they *always* go off.
The WF one is easy to disarm, if you're already en route when you saw it get placed... otherwise most people run around like mad trying to find it. Same for the Airstrip one, but irregardless if you're fixing stuff that is broken I'd point out those two before the Barracks issue.
We're going to fix all that depending on the results of this stupid poll.
I'd say leave it for Canyon, because Nod are at a similar disadvantage where GDI can Ion cannon on top of the tunnel, next to the strip and under the tunnel, though not destroying, but still getting points O_o
Blazer I would be fine with it being fixed, although I like to get on the barracks roof with a mobius...great for fending off Flame Tanks. More importantly, we should fix the exploit that allows anyone to jump onto the WF roof from the bridge on that same map. Beacons planted there are all but impossible to find in time, I know some people who plant them there regularly and they *always* go off. I agree, fix the WF and leave barracks alone.
Leave it. I like going on there as GDI, like Blazer said. But what I like aside, who cares? Why does this need to be "fixed," anyway?
Because it wasn't inteded to be that way.
It gives GDI an advantage, too, because if you get PICs or Mobiuses up there, it's extremely difficult for Nod to kill them. However, it becomes difficult for Nod to attack with Flame Tanks or Stealth Tanks, and planting nukes on the side of building can be easily countered from up top. It can be an advantage or a disadvantage for either team, depending on how they use it. Also, whether or not it was intended to be this way or not is a moot point, because we've all been playing this way for over two years now.
I can say I didn't play that way. Plain because it sucks.
Yes! I already stuck a death zone on it on my servers. :twisted:
zunnie Nah, this is a very well known -tactic- Alot of people know about this and almost everyone use it whenever they can. So this is a 'No, dont fix it' for me [zunnie] Same answer :rolleyes:
Taking these results as base when I edit canyon tommorrow: Yes! 60% [ 15 ] No! 40% [ 10 ]
If the programmers of the game wanted it fixed in the numerous patches they released, they would have fixed it. Just like ob walking ... harv walking ... wall jumping ... etc. Learn to use proximity mines if you're paranoid about elite players finding ways to prevent you noobs from stopping them. I can't believe this is even a thread.
Well, since BHS can't fix any actual problems, they've had to focus on things that may or may not need fixing. Don't take this the wrong way--without the source code, the real problems can't be fixed. It's mostly academic, anyway, since it would seem to me that a large percentage of the Renegade population isn't going to give a shit in either case. Go ahead and "fix" the Barracks. You've got a humongous (60%!) majority of forum-attending players backing you. Maybe Renegade will be fun once one can't jump on the Barracks anymore. I know that's what stopped me from enjoying it.
fl00d3d ob walking elite players :rolleyes: on, say, Field? 1337ness on field is being ownage with a med or arty, not running backwards
fl00d3d If the programmers of the game wanted it fixed in the numerous patches they released, they would have fixed it. Just like ob walking ... harv walking ... wall jumping ... etc. Learn to use proximity mines if you're paranoid about elite players finding ways to prevent you noobs from stopping them. He's right, you gotta think about this, if it weren't meant to be there, would the people who designed the map accidently put a ramp right where they had, if they had meant for you to not be able to jump on top of the barracks? Simple solution - don't fix it if it's not broken, C&C_Canyon is fine how it is, so leave it alone, I have plenty of fun on that map, just like everyone else who voted/will vote "NO!" with me. :mrgreen:
Uh, no. There were many things that WS could not add into the game. I was lucky that I got on the development team long enough to finish Glacier Flying for the release. Its problems should be testament to the fact that we didn't have the time to fix all the problems with the game. Your logic is flawed.
Quick question: What would happen if there were two players and one had installed the fix but the other had not and the server didn't have the fix either?
If the server has the fixed map, and the player doesnt, the player will be able to go through the "barrier" for a second and then the server will rubberband/warp them back to where they should be.
Phoenix5p Balance: GDI can't go on Hand of Nod Yeah, but they can tankwhore the Airstrip from outside the Nod base. Wow, I have to say that I'm glad 25 votes are going to decide balance changes. What a striking cross-section of people who play.
i find getting on the barx is an excellent place to defend from.
I say no, dont make the game more sucky just make it fun it brings more tactic in game and more skill it no fun if you cant do it anymore and every one gets flame tanks then people will play for points not for fun
What about the other way around, like he asked, Blazer? Would it cause a version mismatch?
DONT fix it PLZ! there is no need of taking away a real good bug (lol), cuz this is one of the bugs that makes the game better !
Make the game as it was intended. If need be, perhaps you can get "official" support from former members in how the levels were supposed to be.
warranto Make the game as it was intended. If need be, perhaps you can get "official" support from former members in how the levels were supposed to be. Why do you think I'm with BHS?
Which you aren't, or ever have been. That would require a paycheck from EA, and your name in the manual.
Normally you'd be correct, but seeing as how I know most of the Renegade team members - who are also working at Petroglyph - and I got my work into the game... Along with being referred to as a development team member and being told to put "Worked on Renegade in 2002" on my resume, I think that qualifies me to the position I hold with BHS. You might not like it, believe it, or whatever else. I know what happened because I had a nice five month ride with them.
YOu do realize that a simple serverside map modification can solve all these problems? Just open mesa in level edit, add an invisible wall against the ramp, no more tank hopping. Similarly all the b2b problems can be fixed. Look for a server side map pack of the original ww maps soon, only servers need to run this update and it will fix many of the exploits.
Aircraftkiller "Worked on Renegade in 2002" on my resume, dobt that will help getting a job any where considering you don't even have a HS diploma.
You'd be better off using Max to add an invisible barrier there, instead of LevelEdit. I don't think there's anything in it that can accomplish what you're looking for. Quote: dobt that will help getting a job any where considering you don't even have a HS diploma. A diploma is pretty irrelevant considering most kids coming out of high school are illiterate, ignorant people with little regard for anything but themselves. I'd rather learn by myself instead of go back to the place I was to get a piece of paper saying I stayed there for four years. Simply because you have a diploma doesn't mean you're intelligent, nor does it guarantee a job.
Aircraftkiller Normally you'd be correct, but seeing as how I know most of the Renegade team members - who are also working at Petroglyph - and I got my work into the game... Along with being referred to as a development team member and being told to put "Worked on Renegade in 2002" on my resume, I think that qualifies me to the position I hold with BHS. You might not like it, believe it, or whatever else. I know what happened because I had a nice five month ride with them. I am not claiming you didn't have the experience of working with them, but considering the game was a finished product that you modified after release, irregardless of whether the work was included or not, does not make you a member. I agree that these items qualify you for BHS status, but it would be a stretch of definition to say you were a member of the Renegade team.
Aircraftkiller A diploma is pretty irrelevant considering most kids coming out of high school are illiterate, ignorant people with little regard for anything but themselves. I'd rather learn by myself instead of go back to the place I was to get a piece of paper saying I stayed there for four years. Simply because you have a diploma doesn't mean you're intelligent, nor does it guarantee a job. Something we agree on.
Quote: I agree that these items qualify you for BHS status, but it would be a stretch of definition to say you were a member of the Renegade team. You'll have to take that one up with Steve Tall and Greg Hjelstrom, then...
If they are willing to post that here in this forum, that would be just nifty, and clear things right up. Namedropping bites you in the ass if this backfires.
I doubt they will, seeing as how they're working on that game at Petroglyph.
Why not just make an elevator or something and place it at the back of the bar... Same with the WF on that map, people can climb on that to. Edit: No, just place a blocker at the WF....
Aircraftkiller warranto Make the game as it was intended. If need be, perhaps you can get "official" support from former members in how the levels were supposed to be. Why do you think I'm with BHS? I didn't doubt that, but I was meaning more along the lines of paid personnel. Sure you worked with them, but in the eyes of the majority of the community, their word that something should be changed would have more worth than your word. I don't mean this as an insult, simply a matter of fact.
Problem is, I know what was meant to happen with the game... So my word should hold as much weight as a WS employee, seeing as how the only difference was that I didn't receive a paycheck.
Was Westwood's plan also to implement said changes, starting June-July 2004?
Aircraftkiller Problem is, I know what was meant to happen with the game... So my word should hold as much weight as a WS employee, seeing as how the only difference was that I didn't receive a paycheck. well, maybe if you didn't act like a pompous ass all the time your word would actually be worth something. i bet the biggest reason people don't believe you is because they hate you. they don't care if you did or did not work for westwood. all they care about is that you're a nitpicky little bastard who acts like he's god.
I gotta agree with mahkra there :rolleyes:
Quote: well, maybe if you didn't act like a pompous ass all the time your word would actually be worth something. i bet the biggest reason people don't believe you is because they hate you. they don't care if you did or did not work for westwood. all they care about is that you're a nitpicky little bastard who acts like he's god. Sure, if by "acting like God" you mean "posting my opinions without regard for your stupid politics" then you're totally correct. Sad that so many of you can dish out shit because you simply cannot take the opinions of others.
When you say something, it's posting an opinion without regard for "stupid politics," but when someone else posts something, it's "dishing out shit"?
Aircraftkiller is a bit harsh at times but you cannot say that he doesn't make a valid point a majority of the time. I usualy don't post that much here just kinda read up on what's going on, and i can safely say i would be on his side 95% of the time. Well I see me getting flamed here so I'll just sit here and read.
Small request to get off this who's word is worth what? I know I started it, but it wasn't my intention for it to turn into a flame war. So drop it.
warranto Small request to get off this who's word is worth what? I know I started it, but it wasn't my intention for it to turn into a flame war. So drop it. If ACK is involved, the end result is a flame war. It's not your fault, so don't take blame where it's not due.
Is there any way we can get more people to come here and post their opinions? 23 vs 20 isn't really something to go by, and while I know this is just to get an idea of how many people want/don't want things to be changed it would be better if there were at least a hundred people voting on these polls because I've seen 300-odd logged onto renguard at the same time so they must have some interest in the community.
Aircraftkiller Quote: well, maybe if you didn't act like a pompous ass all the time your word would actually be worth something. i bet the biggest reason people don't believe you is because they hate you. they don't care if you did or did not work for westwood. all they care about is that you're a nitpicky little bastard who acts like he's god. Sure, if by "acting like God" you mean "posting my opinions without regard for your stupid politics" then you're totally correct. Sad that so many of you can dish out shit because you simply cannot take the opinions of others. actually, when i said acting like god, i was referring to how you can't handle criticism and won't listen to any opinions except your own. you dismiss everyone else's thoughts offhand without ever even considering their validity. and i didn't mean it as a personal attack or anything; i'm just stating the facts. if you want to be an ass to everyone, go ahead and do it. nobody really cares. but it's just plain stupid to expect people to respect you when you treat them like dog shit. i mean, you start arguments in the forums just because you're bored. you'll start bashing someone and when people ask why you're stirring up trouble you basically just say there's nothing else to argue about. and when people are having an intelligent discussion/argument, you're often one of the first people to start turning it into a flame war. crap like that will not earn you anyone's respect. oh, and that bit about "cannot take the opinions of others" made me LMFAO. that's got to be one of the most hypocritical things i've heard in a long time.... and by the way, i don't play any politics games. if i did, i wouldn't be saying any of this stuff, because the admins of this site happen to like you. (at least, they tolerate you. i have no idea if they actually like you or not.) and just to reiterate, this post is NOT meant to be a flame, ACK. everyone knows you're an ass. hell, it always seems to me that you're proud of that fact. all i'm saying is that if you treat people like shit and then expect them to respect you, you're fucking stupid.
mahkra if you treat people like shit and then expect them to respect you, you're fucking stupid. Treat others as you wish to be treated, I believe I learned that when I was 5 Almost makes you wonder how many people actually understand that that's how things work in life :rolleyes:
And how do you expect to be treated, with an obnoxiously annoying signature and name that would get you banned from many forums on sight?
Oh how I love when people think that trying to insult me is going to bother me in the least. For 1, I'm not going to change my signature or name. 2, What I meant by 'treat others as you wish to be treated' is be nice to them & they'll be nice to you, not even slightly based on their signature or name. 3, Don't attempt to insult someone who's not going to be bothered by them to start, you'll just waste your time. 4, I have yet to get banned from ANY forums where I've registered (20+), shows how much you've proven to me in saying "an obnoxiously annoying signature and name that would get you banned from many forums on sight?"
Quote: actually, when i said acting like god, i was referring to how you can't handle criticism and won't listen to any opinions except your own. you dismiss everyone else's thoughts offhand without ever even considering their validity. and i didn't mean it as a personal attack or anything; i'm just stating the facts. if you want to be an ass to everyone, go ahead and do it. nobody really cares. but it's just plain stupid to expect people to respect you when you treat them like dog shit. If I don't listen to opinions, and can't handle criticism, why is it that I'm responding to you and reading what you're writing? It's not good to assume that "bashing what someone creates or what ignorance they write" equals "not listening to them and not taking criticism." Where did I say I wanted respect? Listening to my opinions on the subject, as the only remaining WS-affilated person to visit this forum on a regular basis, or care about what happens to the game, is probably a wise thing. It's not as if I'm out to destroy Renegade. Quote: i mean, you start arguments in the forums just because you're bored. you'll start bashing someone and when people ask why you're stirring up trouble you basically just say there's nothing else to argue about. and when people are having an intelligent discussion/argument, you're often one of the first people to start turning it into a flame war. crap like that will not earn you anyone's respect. See above. I don't care for your respect because I don't know you and you don't matter to me once I turn off my computer. Quote: oh, and that bit about "cannot take the opinions of others" made me LMFAO. that's got to be one of the most hypocritical things i've heard in a long time.... Where can you conclusively prove that I cannot take opinions of others? You can't, and you know it. Quote: and by the way, i don't play any politics games. if i did, i wouldn't be saying any of this stuff, because the admins of this site happen to like you. (at least, they tolerate you. i have no idea if they actually like you or not.) I butt heads with Crimson and Blazer often enough because I feel the need to prove my points. Reference; earlier I was fighting mac because he thought it prudent to make a poll on this subject (Barracks exploit) while I thought it more important to fix it and be done with it. Quote: and just to reiterate, this post is NOT meant to be a flame, ACK. everyone knows you're an ass. hell, it always seems to me that you're proud of that fact. all i'm saying is that if you treat people like shit and then expect them to respect you, you're fucking stupid. I don't care what any dictionary says, "flaming" is what homosexuals do... Anyway, beyond that point, I'm not taking what you're writing as an insult. Sure, I'm an ass. So are you, and so is everyone else here. Singling me out because I happen to be more up-front than most is, as you wrote earlier, hypocritical; at best.
Aircraftkiller If I don't listen to opinions, and can't handle criticism, why is it that I'm responding to you and reading what you're writing? if you're actually reading what i'm writing, it's probably the first time. usually you just read the first few lines of my posts and then respond without even knowing what else i said. Aircraftkiller I don't care enough about this topic to read your entire post and make a useful reply. I'm here to stir up shit (that was from a while ago, the med tank vs artillery fraps thread) Aircraftkiller Where did I say I wanted respect? i dunno, maybe earlier in this thread? Aircraftkiller my word should hold as much weight as a WS employee Aircraftkiller Where can you conclusively prove that I cannot take opinions of others? You can't, and you know it. why don't you take another look at almost any thread where anyone has ever insulted RenAlert or your vehicle textures or maps? i think the evidence is pretty clear. Aircraftkiller earlier I was fighting mac because he thought it prudent to make a poll on this subject (Barracks exploit) while I thought it more important to fix it and be done with it. and in case you haven't noticed, almost half the people that have voted don't think it should be changed. this is just another example of you not caring about anyone else's opinions and just wanting everything to be done your way. which is why nobody wants to listen to you -- you don't want to make Renegade fun for the community; you only want to make it fun for ACK. if you want to run things your way, then play on your own server with whatever maps and rules you want. if you're releasing "fixes" to the community, though, you should only fix things that the community thinks are broken. no matter how much work you put into that glacier map, you are NOT EA. and you don't have the rights to the game. so like it or not, your word is NOT final. if anyone should get to decide what is changed in community-wide fixes, it should be a consensus (or at least a majority) of community members. Aircraftkiller I don't care what any dictionary says, "flaming" is what homosexuals do... i don't really understand what you're nitpicking about here. using the term to refer to email & online forum insults is just as acceptable as using the term to refer to gay people. Aircraftkiller Anyway, beyond that point, I'm not taking what you're writing as an insult. Sure, I'm an ass. So are you, and so is everyone else here. Singling me out because I happen to be more up-front than most is, as you wrote earlier, hypocritical; at best. no, it's really not. i'm not saying you shouldn't be rude to people. i'm saying you shouldn't be rude to people and then still expect them to respect anything you say. i may be an ass to people sometimes, but i never expect someone i mistreated to care what i think.
Quote: if you're actually reading what i'm writing, it's probably the first time. usually you just read the first few lines of my posts and then respond without even knowing what else i said. I don't only read the first few lines just because you think I do. Quote: Aircraftkiller wrote: Where did I say I wanted respect? i dunno, maybe earlier in this thread? Aircraftkiller wrote: my word should hold as much weight as a WS employee That's not respect, that's just a statement I made outlining what I believe, not what I want. Quote: why don't you take another look at almost any thread where anyone has ever insulted RenAlert or your vehicle textures or maps? i think the evidence is pretty clear. Arguing with someone doesn't mean you can't accept criticism or opinions. Sorry. Quote: and in case you haven't noticed, almost half the people that have voted don't think it should be changed. this is just another example of you not caring about anyone else's opinions and just wanting everything to be done your way. which is why nobody wants to listen to you -- you don't want to make Renegade fun for the community; you only want to make it fun for ACK. if you want to run things your way, then play on your own server with whatever maps and rules you want. if you're releasing "fixes" to the community, though, you should only fix things that the community thinks are broken. no matter how much work you put into that glacier map, you are NOT EA. and you don't have the rights to the game. so like it or not, your word is NOT final. if anyone should get to decide what is changed in community-wide fixes, it should be a consensus (or at least a majority) of community members. I don't care what half the people want because in this situation, few would have been voting for "lets get on the buildings on all C&C mode levels" if the QA team had found that problem and had Tse-Cheng fix it on Canyon. So yeah, if you think "making the game the way it was intended to be, instead of allowing you to glitch things and fly everywhere and do whatever you want" as being "I just want it to be fun for myself," then you're totally right. Glacier Flying doesn't make me part of EA, because I NEVER said I was part of EA. And yet you accuse me of only reading a few lines of your posts... :rolleyes: Actually, no, who decides what goes into fixing things is Black Hand Studios. Not the community. Your votes help us decide but they're not the final judgement. Quote: i don't really understand what you're nitpicking about here. using the term to refer to email & online forum insults is just as acceptable as using the term to refer to gay people. It's still stupid. Why bother to say that I'm "nitpicking" while you do it in the same sentence? Toot toot, hypocrite train coming to station! Quote: no, it's really not. i'm not saying you shouldn't be rude to people. i'm saying you shouldn't be rude to people and then still expect them to respect anything you say. i may be an ass to people sometimes, but i never expect someone i mistreated to care what i think. And you're basing this off what?
Don't fix the top of the bar. It's not that hard to get up there. I've seen the beacon get disarmed up there before. The only time it's impossible to disarm is if you get up there too late with a basic engi and you're alone and the sbh starts shooting at you... just try to avoid this situation. If the beacon is on top of the bar: 1. instead of playing hero and silently disarming it yourself, tell your team where it is before going to disarm it. 2. if multiple engis are trying to jump on top of the bar, just let them jump first so you all don't fall down.
Aircraftkiller I don't only read the first few lines just because you think I do. YOU are the one who told ME that you don't read my entire posts. it was weeks ago, so you probably don't remember it... Aircraftkiller Glacier Flying doesn't make me part of EA, because I NEVER said I was part of EA. And yet you accuse me of only reading a few lines of your posts... :rolleyes: i never said that you claimed to be a part of EA. i said that you act like you should have the final say about any "fixes" to Renegade. and i said that you have no right to act that way because EA has the rights to the game, NOT you. Aircraftkiller Actually, no, who decides what goes into fixing things is Black Hand Studios. Not the community. Your votes help us decide but they're not the final judgement. and i said the community SHOULD be the ones making the decisions. this argument is really pointless though. at the end of the day, everyone's still going to hate you for being a little prick, and everyone's still going to hate me for being in FUD. i do have one question though: if you really don't care about having the respect of anyone on these forums, why are you defending yourself so vehemently when all i'm really saying is that nobody respects you and nobody should?
Aircraftkiller Where did I say I wanted respect? I seriously hope you're joking. Every time you whine about people not giving you credit where credit may or may not be due, that's wanting respect. Pervert that logic all you want, it's true.
Eg. you wanted to be credited because Eric Kearns "saw your Hand of Nod post" and decided to share the old Renegade assets. You should be credited simply because he read your post? Actually, Eric was reading the Commando Nod Turret post and that eventually led to releasing the assets (by both you Aircraftkiller and Kearns). http://www.renegadeforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10399&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100 Eric is the original author of these assets and by no matter how the assets were edited or copied, the copyright is hold by him and Westwood Studios/Electronic Arts. You can't simply erase somebody's name from a table and stick your name on it. Also remember this.. Eric Kearns - former Westwood Studios Lead Artist for C&C Renegade My two cents... Anything that Westwood made and is out there for Renegade should be freely distributed. Who made these Westwood assets no bearing on the issue. If someone wants to keep these models and not distribute them to the community then it's everyone's lose. The idea of having a mod community to me means everyone shares assets and everyone tries to make their own cool maps using the assets (or their own new ones). If someone wants to keep certain items under their thumb and not let everyone play with em then shame on you. Be a pal and let these people share the fun. It's simple. I'll find a way to post all the stuff I have so everyone and their mother can get it and use it. If someone wants to run around claiming it was something they made then I'll call their bluff and we'll be done with it. Now I would figure there would be some opposition to this idea because people are keeping some goods to themselves claiming they have a right to keep certain things private to their mod. So fire away or flame it up or whatever it is that you want to do with such fodder.
Seaman, well said, and a nice nail in the coffin.
SeaMan Eg. you wanted to be credited because Eric Kearns "saw your Hand of Nod post" and decided to share the old Renegade assets. You should be credited simply because he read your post? Actually, Eric was reading the Commando Nod Turret post and that eventually led to releasing the assets (by both you Aircraftkiller and Kearns). http://www.renegadeforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10399&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100 Eric is the original author of these assets and by no matter how the assets were edited or copied, the copyright is hold by him and Westwood Studios/Electronic Arts. You can't simply erase somebody's name from a table and stick your name on it. Also remember this.. Eric Kearns - former Westwood Studios Lead Artist for C&C Renegade My two cents... Anything that Westwood made and is out there for Renegade should be freely distributed. Who made these Westwood assets no bearing on the issue. If someone wants to keep these models and not distribute them to the community then it's everyone's lose. The idea of having a mod community to me means everyone shares assets and everyone tries to make their own cool maps using the assets (or their own new ones). If someone wants to keep certain items under their thumb and not let everyone play with em then shame on you. Be a pal and let these people share the fun. It's simple. I'll find a way to post all the stuff I have so everyone and their mother can get it and use it. If someone wants to run around claiming it was something they made then I'll call their bluff and we'll be done with it. Now I would figure there would be some opposition to this idea because people are keeping some goods to themselves claiming they have a right to keep certain things private to their mod. So fire away or flame it up or whatever it is that you want to do with such fodder. Quote: An acknowledgment of work done, as in the production of a motion picture or publication. Often used in the plural: At the end of the film we stayed to watch the credits. That's credit. That doesn't equate to respect. Regardless of whatever you think. What Eric said is his own opinion and I don't happen to share it, because you're a whiny little moron who couldn't do what I asked before I would release those assets voluntarily. You couldn't cut it and get some actual work done, you just wanted something to show off and make people visit your site. Quote: Aircraftkiller wrote: I don't only read the first few lines just because you think I do. YOU are the one who told ME that you don't read my entire posts. it was weeks ago, so you probably don't remember it... Now put that together with the "I'm just here to piss people off in this thread" remark and you get what's called "pushing buttons to incite funny responses." Quote: i never said that you claimed to be a part of EA. i said that you act like you should have the final say about any "fixes" to Renegade. and i said that you have no right to act that way because EA has the rights to the game, NOT you. I have every right to act that way because we both know that EA isn't going to do anything about this game in the future. Quote: and i said the community SHOULD be the ones making the decisions. Now lets reverse this around. Quote: and i said that you have no right to act that way because BHS has the rights to RenGuard, NOT you. Quote: this argument is really pointless though. at the end of the day, everyone's still going to hate you for being a little prick, and everyone's still going to hate me for being in FUD. I doubt everyone hates me. Hate is such a strong term to use toward one another. Maybe some people dislike me, but all? I doubt it, I really do. If you think everyone hates me because you're in FUD and you're used to being hated by most gamers for your "pompous ass" attitude... Quote: i do have one question though: if you really don't care about having the respect of anyone on these forums, why are you defending yourself so vehemently when all i'm really saying is that nobody respects you and nobody should? Because saying that is a fallacy in logic. You do not speak for everyone because you are not everyone. Remember where I said I would argue with people who wrote ignorant things?
Asking for credit DOES equate to asking for respect. It RESPECTS you to give you credit for something. If you're too arrogent to see that, not only am I not surprised, but I also pity you. Quote: re·spect ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-spkt) tr.v. re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem. To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit. To relate or refer to; concern. That means that when you whine about getting credit, you're (broadly) whining about getting respect. [/quote]
Nowhere does that apply to credit. I may not like someone but I'll still add their name to a bibliography or a Readme.txt simply because it's the right thing to do, not because I respect them.
The ol' EGO DETECTOR is going off. Mr. Kearns' word is valid because he was on the payroll. Because he helped create this masterpiece. If you follow your OWN logic that exposure to the Westwood Development team validates your opinion of Renegade, then the same applies to Mr. Kearns even more so. Your disagreement with him, has no merit. You are going against the will of the very company you claim to represent. A westwood studios employee is a far more credible resource than a kid who made a map, and emailed some folks at Westwood to get it in a patch. And if you remember correctly, you alone didn't get it in there. The community was polled by Delphi to see if it should be considered. When the response was an overwhelming "YES" it was included. You have forgotten who helped get you where you are. The very same Mod community that you now forsake, and Westwood employees who trusted you with thier hard worked resources that you now squander.
LOL Okay, lets start with you next... Quote: Mr. Kearns' word is valid because he was on the payroll. Because he helped create this masterpiece. He wasn't on a payroll to talk about "mod communities" that he wasn't active in with C&C. The game is not a masterpiece, but the engine is. Quote: If you follow your OWN logic that exposure to the Westwood Development team validates your opinion of Renegade, then the same applies to Mr. Kearns even more so. Your disagreement with him, has no merit. You are going against the will of the very company you claim to represent. He wasn't on a payroll to talk about "mod communities" that he wasn't active in with C&C. Eric isn't WS, he was part of WS. Quote: A westwood studios employee is a far more credible resource than a kid who made a map, and emailed some folks at Westwood to get it in a patch. How do you know what happened? That's right, you don't. Quote: And if you remember correctly, you alone didn't get it in there. The community was polled by Delphi to see if it should be considered. When the response was an overwhelming "YES" it was included. No he wasn't. Delphi wasn't even around at September of 2002, he was too busy promoting Generals for EA-P. There was no poll. I asked Greg Hjelstrom if we could spare the resources to get in an additional level for the game, one that was supposed to be in at the 1.030 patch, and he found a way to get it in through the QA team. I submitted several versions to them and they finally accepted the version we're using now after a patch to 1.036. Quote: You have forgotten who helped get you where you are. No, I haven't. This entire community has helped me get where I am. Quote: The very same Mod community that you now forsake, and Westwood employees who trusted you with thier hard worked resources that you now squander. I've always forsaken this "mod community" because it was always garbage. There have been a few gems in the rough that I've picked up and asked to help me with Renegade Alert but that's about it. I haven't squandered anything. If you want to see work squandered, go look at SeaMan placing specular highlighting over a metal Tiberium Harvester to make it look wrapped in freezer wrap.
Are you dense? Seriously, you're smarter than this. If you DON'T give credit to someone for something they've done for/to you, you're not respecting that person or their work because you're effectively taking it and showing it off as your own. If you DO give credit where due, you're showing that "this person did this work; contributed this idea; whatever." This is a conscious decision, "Do I give him credit, or do I not?" You ARE respecting the individual's work, because you are saying "I didn't make this, but this person did. Here is his name". Growing up in a Military setting, I'd think you of all people would know you don't have to like someone to respect them; but giving credit where credit is due is respectful.[/quote]
Quote: If you DON'T give credit to someone for something they've done for/to you, you're not respecting that person or their work because you're effectively taking it and showing it off as your own. No, if you don't give them credit, you're being a thief. Quote: If you DO give credit where due, you're showing that "this person did this work; contributed this idea; whatever." This is a conscious decision, "Do I give him credit, or do I not?" You ARE respecting the individual's work, because you are saying "I didn't make this, but this person did. Here is his name". That isn't respect. Quote: Growing up in a Military setting, I'd think you of all people would know you don't have to like someone to respect them; but giving credit where credit is due is respectful. More like required, not respectful.
And you are neither WS, or anything to do with it, thus your 'status' is completely invalid, and you should NOT be claimng to represent thier ideology for this game. And yes, it is a masterpiece. It captured the imagination of all C&C players who loved this game since 1995. It captured the spirit of the genre, and expanded on it to create a game experience many of us will never be able to replace, RenAlert included. Delphi was around, because Cliff Hicks wasn't, if you remember correctly. Yes, he was busy with Generals. So? He asked this community if Glacier was something we wanted to see incorporated into the last patch. He also asked us some other questions regarding what we wanted to see in the next C&C game, and some other questions about what we liked / didn't like about this game. Seeing as I can't exactly do a database search of the old posts, I will leave it there. The background machinations of why Delphi asked don't really matter. And if this whole community helped you get where you are, then why do you continue to keep harassing it, and anyone who still enjoys it? There aren't many of us left. Your mission will be complete soon. It is NOT for you to decide what is a 'keeper' and what isn't for this community. It is up to us when we choose to download it or not.
Aircraftkiller No, if you don't give them credit, you're being a thief. Thats essentially what I said. Quote: That isn't respect. That is respect. Just because you don't think so doesn't make it so. I can almost guaruntee you that everyone with a shroud of openmindedness to logic would agree. Quote: More like required, not respectful. I would guess you were never IN the Military then were you? You have to respect the authority of officers, as well as the integrity of those around you. You might not like the people, but you better be sure to respect them otherwise you'll find yourself face first in the dirt at 3am. Remember, whenever you say "sir" you're respecting them. You choose to say it, therefore it is respect. Hollow, yes, but still respect.
Quote: That is respect. Just because you don't think so doesn't make it so. I can almost guaruntee you that everyone with a shroud of openmindedness to logic would agree. I'm open minded, just not to mind games or attempts at swaying my opinion to something I don't care to think about. Quote: I would guess you were never IN the Military then were you? You have to respect the authority of officers, as well as the integrity of those around you. You might not like the people, but you better be sure to respect them otherwise you'll find yourself face first in the dirt at 3am. Remember, whenever you say "sir" you're respecting them. You choose to say it, therefore it is respect. Hollow, yes, but still respect. Did I ever say I was? :rolleyes:
[quote="Aircraftkiller"]I'm open minded, just not to mind games or attempts at swaying my opinion to something I don't care to think about. Then why do you bother to reply? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite? Quote: Did I ever say I was? :rolleyes: I suppose not. But I would think that spending many years (assumedly) on base would teach you a thing or two about how the Military operates.
Quote: Then why do you bother to reply? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite? No, because I said I'm open minded to just about anything but what I outlined. Did I say I wouldn't reply to it? lol... The only military experience I had was in the US Marine Corps ROTC for four years, getting out as a 1st Lieutenant. Almost made captain..
Aircraftkiller Quote: Then why do you bother to reply? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite? No, because I said I'm open minded to just about anything but what I outlined. Did I say I wouldn't reply to it? lol... Nah, that wasn't what I was refering to. You've ragged on people for months about posting for no reason. If you're not going to think about something, then you're posting for generally no reason.
I'm pretty sure I said posting spam, not posting for no reason.
Aircraftkiller I'm pretty sure I said posting spam, not posting for no reason. There is something inheritly similar between those two objects, wouldn't you think? While it's arguble that spam can be used to annoy, and therefore a reason, many times there is no reason behind it. I think PiroXD was a good example of that.
There's always a reason behind everything that happens.
Aircraftkiller There's always a reason behind everything that happens. Claire com le bou.
If you'd like we can continue this in french, but you'd run out of pithy catch phrases in about two minutes.
Aircraftkiller There's always a reason behind everything that happens. I think you misunderstand when I say "no reason". I'm using in the context that something is done for the sake of it. But you already knew that.
wow, ACK, as hard as it is for me to believe, you're even more of a fucking idiot than i ever thought. i'd continue this argument but there's really no point. my insults seem to be way over your head, and you're not even saying anything remotely worth responding to. so i'm done with this thread for now.
So, if it's not worth responding to, why'd you go ahead and do it anyway? Probably because you can't find a decent response to make.
Drkpwn3r Oh how I love when people think that trying to insult me is going to bother me in the least. For 1, I'm not going to change my signature or name. 2, What I meant by 'treat others as you wish to be treated' is be nice to them & they'll be nice to you, not even slightly based on their signature or name. 3, Don't attempt to insult someone who's not going to be bothered by them to start, you'll just waste your time. 4, I have yet to get banned from ANY forums where I've registered (20+), shows how much you've proven to me in saying "an obnoxiously annoying signature and name that would get you banned from many forums on sight?" First of all, it wasn't an insult. If you aren't bothered, why reply? I knew what you meant by the analogy, that wasn't the point. Let me refer you to a forum that cares a bit more whether or not people act like douchebags. But before I do that, let's take a look at a rule ON THIS VERY FORUM. Quote: Signature Image Size - Please keep them small as signature images should be. In other words it shouldnt be bigger than a few lines of text, or so wide that it stretches the forum page beyond its normal bounds. Just keep in mind that by definition a "signature" is a small signoff message. Anything larger than 3-4 lines of text stops becoming a sig and turns into "that big picture at the end of the post". Please also make sure that your signature image, if animated, is not over approximately 250K. This is to ensure that the modem users (yes, everyone doesn't have broadband) don't have any problems. See that little image you got of that stick man trying to kick some door in? see, in a way similar to the stick man, you're SMASHING through that rule at a world record.. some odd 300kb in fact. So not only are you inconsiderate, you're annoying a lot of 56kers (who were probably more annoyed at "pwnage runs in my blood" than anything else). Now, take a look at the somethingawful.com forum rules. Keep in mind, there are other forums out there with similar rules. http://www.somethingawful.com/forumrules/ Quote: Signatures cannot exceed 30k in weight (total) and must not include more than 2 images or 3 lines of text (in 1024x768 resolution). Images may not exceed 400 pixels wide or 125 pixels high. Failure to comply will result in your signature being edited down to the preferred size. Restoring the signature to the pre-edited state will result in a ban. Please refrain from posting your sig file in every thread, every reply, and every post. Quote: Gimmick posters, unless intensely humorous, will be banned and shot in the face. Same goes for people posting parody threads or SA character impersonations. Any furries or Scientologists will be banned on sight. Anybody who writes in AOL / script kiddie speak (ie "pw3ned", "0wned," "r0x0r") will be banned and we will hunt you down and drive railroad spikes into your hands. See now, this is just funny. You'd be going through the ban door like a hyperactive kitten with a rocket strapped to it's back.
Aircraftkiller So, if it's not worth responding to, why'd you go ahead and do it anyway? Probably because you can't find a decent response to make. But you just did the same thing. I hear the last call for the train now, you better hurry or you'll miss your seat.