Command and Conquer: Renegade Official Forums - RDF feed
type: channel
description: C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
items: Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
items: yeah

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: A ramjet is designed around massive damage to armor, but I also agree that flying a unit into the field in walls flying shouldn't last 2 seconds. How about this: 1. Make it possible to snipe the pilot (Difficult at best, and therefore self limiting in balance ) 2. Making parts of the vehicle more susceptible to severe damage by ramjet than others. IE if a sniper can take out the VTOL fans the veh is toast, but if it passes through the tail there would be no real difference other than a minor armor degradation. (This too, would be self limiting, considering most Ramjet Monkeys can't shoot worth a damn, let alone hit a jigging highly maneuverable vehicle moving in three dimensions.) This is what allowed the P-50 Mustang Tank killer to take hundreds of AA rounds and still make it home during WW2, and Vietnam. I believe a feature like this would bring folks like TrueADM, and others back to Renegade.
creator: KIRBY098
date: 2004-04-26T16:24:49-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Both aren't possible and neither are C&C related. Damage locations were only used in Earth & Beyond, the code for it is obsolete in the Renegade iteration of W3D. It's best to allow missile armed units to take down aircraft. Something that's fair for both sides. Orcas, Apaches - they can't reach 300 meters like a "sniper" can. Why should "snipers" get that huge advantage? It makes much more sense for SAM fire to be used against aircraft instead of some loser with a huge rifle that would knock them over when fired.
creator: Aircraftkiller
date: 2004-04-26T16:55:30-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: ack is it possible to make s.a.m. to pop out of the ground like in tiberian dawn?
creator: jd422032101
date: 2004-04-26T20:33:25-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: just lower the ramjet rifle damage on flying vehicles. I was in a server yesterday that didn't allow snipers to take out flying vehecles. makes the planes so much more effective, but not the key to victory though
creator: markvgast
date: 2004-04-26T20:57:00-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: but rav. is they only one with that weapon gdi got the same thing just with diffrent modle and diffrent preson
creator: jd422032101
date: 2004-04-26T21:13:27-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Ramjet is the gun Havoc and Sakura carry. Raveshaw and Sydney carry the Railgun and Personal Ion cannon respectively. I'm inclined to agree with reducing the damage the ramjet does to aircraft. The Railgun and PIC are supposed to be the dedicated AV weapons. Most people don't use them on Aircraft because of the reload time even though they only take 4 shots to down an Attack aricraft. Snipers should be for Sniping not AV.
creator: Falconxl
date: 2004-04-27T20:54:45-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: as of scripts.dll 1.7 (currently undergoing testing) it should be possible to do a sam site that pops out of the ground when it fires. There is even a sutable .gmax model file in the buildings.zip file on the westwood FTP.
creator: jonwil
date: 2004-04-27T23:42:49-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: 5 shots from a sakura or havoc to kill a apache/orca. In all honestly if you can't take a sakura on thats sad
creator: Homey
date: 2004-04-28T00:10:27-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Homey 5 shots from a sakura or havoc to kill a apache/orca. In all honestly if you can't take a sakura on thats sad Amen to that.
creator: Deathgod
date: 2004-04-28T03:30:42-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Homey I've killed more snipers with an Aircraft than most people have killed in general. I'm not some newb who thinks the Aircraft are fun to screw around with, I've been playing Renegade almost as long as Crimson and ACK. Hell I was the first person to actually be able to counter ACK in air to air combat. It may take 5 shots to kill and Aircraft but said n00bcannon user just has to stay outside the range of the aircaft and it stands no chance. The PIC and Rav have to get with in the Aircraft's range to shoot them. They can't sit at double the Orca's range and plink at them like a bunch of wimp dicks. You die by an AV TS for you, you get shot down by a snipe n00b from across the map it's just gay because you stood no chance of retaliating due to the range differences.
creator: Falconxl
date: 2004-04-28T06:45:12-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Amen
creator: liberator
date: 2004-04-28T07:25:49-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Aircraftkiller Damage locations were only used in Earth & Beyond, the code for it is obsolete in the Renegade iteration of W3D. But it is possible to make certain parts take more damage than other parts.
creator: Deactivated
date: 2004-04-30T21:46:13-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Which totally defeats the purpose of a tank with hit points.
creator: Aircraftkiller
date: 2004-04-30T22:07:16-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Aircraftkiller Which totally defeats the purpose of a tank with hit points. You could give the Apache 800 hit points and then add damage modifier to make the rotors take double damage from any weapon.
creator: Deactivated
date: 2004-04-30T22:41:40-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: SeaMan Aircraftkiller Damage locations were only used in Earth & Beyond, the code for it is obsolete in the Renegade iteration of W3D. But it is possible to make certain parts take more damage than other parts. Not on vehicles. Only infantry and Structures. And the Apache/Orca should be able to be hit by a Ramjet rifle with minimal damage. They aren't made out of cardboard. I understand maximum damage to people, but the Orca and Apache are armored vehicles and should be able to win with ease against a sniper. I think the Orca or Apache should be able to do sideways movement like strafeing seeing as they would be able to do it in real life.
creator: IRON FART
date: 2004-04-30T22:45:04-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: IRON-FART Not on vehicles. Only infantry and Structures. And the Apache/Orca should be able to be hit by a Ramjet rifle with minimal damage. They aren't made out of cardboard. I understand maximum damage to people, but the Orca and Apache are armored vehicles and should be able to win with ease against a sniper. I think the Orca or Apache should be able to do sideways movement like strafeing seeing as they would be able to do it in real life. It worked with the SAM site, and it's a vehicle. Holt CTRL and A or D or A and Right Key to strafe.
creator: Deactivated
date: 2004-04-30T22:48:06-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: I definately would like to see the snipers being owned by the aircraft, instead of the other way around. You just bought an ORCA on Walls_Flying, you start flying up, and there are two snipers across the base to the cliff, you die in four seconds because of lag and/or getting stuck on the vehicle blocker.
creator: icedog90
date: 2004-05-01T01:51:47-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: The damage done by the Ramjet rifle to light vehicles should be reduced, but it should still be able to do some damage to vehicles, you did pay $1000 for the thing afterwords. If they completly lose the abiity to damage vehicles, then they should get some other trade off, such as more ammo, faster rate of fire, or more armour. Or, if the viewing distance is incressed, it should have a longer range. But paying double the amount, for a little bit more health, will make these two characters absolutly useless.
creator: Cpo64
date: 2004-05-06T00:14:47-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: You pay more for the ability to kill basic characters in one shot anywhere on the body, and all other characters in two. The 1000 credit snipers are obviously much better at killing infantry than the 500 credit snipers, so they wouldn't be useless just because they couldn't damage aircraft.
creator: m1a1_abrams
date: 2004-05-06T01:24:13-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Useless? of course not... Overpriced? Yes... The amount of damage done? not worth it, a one shot kill is still a one shot kill, no matter if one does more damage then the other.
creator: Cpo64
date: 2004-05-06T01:39:59-00:00

yeah
type: item
description: i think that snipers should remain the same if not do more damage than they do now. Your suggestion are great. I like them. The sniping critcal ares part, the pilot sniping part, etc.... The only part i dont like is the part about doing less damage. If i were attaked, i would like to defend myself. Everyone else who thinks otherwise is a horrible pilot. You should press these ideas.
creator: snipbravo
date: 2004-05-09T01:29:00-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: As a sniper you shouldn't be out in the open. If you don't want to die then learn how to be a sniper. Snipers are meant for infantry not vehicles and especially not an anti tank helicopter. IRL unless the sniper could hit the exact weak point of the chopper alls he's gonna do is bounce rounds off the skin or maybe penetrate the self sealing fuel tanks. By that time though the gunner has more that likely spotted him on the IR scope and is prepping to turn him into hamburger with the 30mm chaingun. IRL you dont get up after being hit by a 30mm Depleted Uranium slug.
creator: Falconxl
date: 2004-05-09T03:47:31-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: In the air its almost impossible to dodge a shot from a ramjet. 3 to 4 shots on an orca with a n00bjet takes it out its insane. Besides snipbravo you're a crappy pilot that just blames YOUR stupid mistakes on other people. You need to give orca his 5 bucks cause you lost thew agrument....badly.
creator: blackhand456
date: 2004-05-10T19:31:51-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: And what is your point other than trying to be a self glorifying n00b? Some people here are trying to make usefull posts on the subject. Next time read the topic before posting, if you do that you won't make yourself look like an ass.
creator: Falconxl
date: 2004-05-16T09:02:56-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Yeah...this is probably the wrong topic to be posting that in.
creator: SuperFlyingEngi
date: 2004-05-16T15:50:35-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Okay, here's my two cents. Havoc and Sakura are snipers, right? Well, let's see. Kane, in one of the videos in the original C&C (in particular, the mission briefing for the mission where you have to kill the scientist) refers to the Commando as a sniper. Havoc and Sakura are thus both Commandos and snipers (as Havoc was clearly intended to be a 'Commando'-style unit and Sakura is just Nod's equivalent to Havoc). Now, let's look at the C&C Commando. He pwns infantry from long range, but has a hard time killing even a Nod Buggy, even though he outranges it. He can't shoot at aircraft at all. To make it similar to C&C, the Ramjet should indeed be able to take out people in one (preferrably two or more, to require snipers to actually aim for the head) shot, but it should do virtually zero damage to even the lightest of vehicles. This includes aircraft.
creator: PointlessAmbler
date: 2004-05-18T02:00:34-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: I agree with you PointlessAmbler, but I know Deathgod won't. He seems to want to keep the game unbalanced.
creator: cokemaster
date: 2004-05-18T02:22:11-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: PointlessAmbler To make it similar to C&C If you are going to do that to snipers to "be similar to C&C", eliminate the engineer's pistol, and nerf the technician's to do virtually no damage. That's also similar to C&C.
creator: Javaxcx
date: 2004-05-18T02:26:49-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: But that's not what he was talking about, so stop arguing in circles.
creator: Aircraftkiller
date: 2004-05-18T02:43:29-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Stop closing threads when presented with valid arguements you fail to effectively counter. No, Jonathon, you haven't.
creator: Javaxcx
date: 2004-05-18T02:45:38-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: cokemaster I agree with you PointlessAmbler, but I know Deathgod won't. He seems to want to keep the game unbalanced. It must be cool to make multiple accounts to spam threads because you have nothing useful to say. If by unbalanced, you mean the way it is, then yes. I think it's fine. Any problems people have killing snipers are related to poor strategy, as I have said in many other threads. We tried a little experiment with camping Sakuras in an interclan game the other night, and while the two sakuras were able to down an orca, one of the saks died, and the other was killed by one of our team's snipers. Amazingly, our sniper survived because the sakuras were too busy looking at my orca. So, we made them spend 2K to our 900 credits. The use of a support unit with my orca is good strategy. Taking on multiple snipers with one air unit is bad strategy.
creator: Deathgod
date: 2004-05-18T03:28:07-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Quote: Deathgod: It must be cool to make multiple accounts to spam threads because you have nothing useful to say. If by unbalanced, you mean the way it is, then yes. I think it's fine. Any problems people have killing snipers are related to poor strategy, as I have said in many other threads. We tried a little experiment with camping Sakuras in an interclan game the other night, and while the two sakuras were able to down an orca, one of the saks died, and the other was killed by one of our team's snipers. Amazingly, our sniper survived because the sakuras were too busy looking at my orca. So, we made them spend 2K to our 900 credits. The use of a support unit with my orca is good strategy. Taking on multiple snipers with one air unit is bad strategy. The mods can check - this is my only account and I don't have multiple accounts. Perhaps you should actually find facts out before pointing your finger and saying that in future. If your complaining of spamming perhaps you should look at yourself - all you have effectively done is stuck to your punchline "Snipers should be left alone". If you expect everyone to take into consideration your point of view, attacking them and accusing them of things that they haven't done (Example: Myself using multiple accounts) is not how to do it. You don't even take into consideration that other people have an opinion. Other people have posted saying that the current balance is a problem. It seems (from my point of view) that its just a small but vocal group of individuals who are so violently opposed to the changes. If you don't like it, you can still use your old maps. But when these changes comes out - I'll be using them. I, for one have had enough of snipers doing excessive damage to aircraft. Enough for me at this time.
creator: cokemaster
date: 2004-05-18T04:27:17-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: cokemaster The mods can check - this is my only account and I don't have multiple accounts. Perhaps you should actually find facts out before pointing your finger and saying that in future. If your complaining of spamming perhaps you should look at yourself - all you have effectively done is stuck to your punchline "Snipers should be left alone". If you expect everyone to take into consideration your point of view, attacking them and accusing them of things that they haven't done (Example: Myself using multiple accounts) is not how to do it. You don't even take into consideration that other people have an opinion. Other people have posted saying that the current balance is a problem. It seems (from my point of view) that its just a small but vocal group of individuals who are so violently opposed to the changes. You may have just this account, but you sound strikingly similar to other people here who have just popped into this argument recently with nothing to say. I'd apologize, but I don't really care about you or your opinion. Sticking to my "punchline" is hardly spamming. There are 2 or 3 threads in which this argument has been going on, and I've made a few posts in each stating what I feel should be done (in this case, nothing). I fail to see where I spammed. It's not like I just jumped into this thread saying ACK IS FUKEN STUPID like you tried to do with me. Perhaps you should read the entire threads before posting so you have some frame of reference. As I said, your opinion doesn't matter, because you're not the one changing the game. The only people I really consider to be partaking in this discussion are ACK, a few of my clanmates, other BHS members, and a few others with actual worthwhile input. Your post, which consisted of nothing worthwhile, doesn't exactly register high on the importance meter. It seems from my point of view that exactly the opposite is happening; a few people want it changed and there's a vocal opposition which is largely ignored sinc…
creator: Deathgod
date: 2004-05-18T04:41:53-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Well just to clear things up - I don't think highly of you, FUD, or your server. It still stands - if you don't like it, don't play it - just let the rest of us who want to alone. Thanks.
creator: cokemaster
date: 2004-05-18T05:06:13-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: cokemaster Well just to clear things up - I don't think highly of you, FUD, or your server. Thanks. Take a number and get in line with everyone else in the complaints line. You can stand there and complain to each other but none of us FUD members will actually ever handle these complaints because we have better things to do in our lives than listen to you whine. I never posted about stopping people from playing these proposed changes, not once in any of these threads. What you feel like doing to change your game is your business, and I'm not going to deny you your right to play a borked game as I neither have the power or the right to do so. I am posting because I want to make aware that there are dissenting viewpoints that should be heard, given that a majority of people who play this game don't even know these forums exist. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant, it doesn't change the facts of the situation.
creator: Deathgod
date: 2004-05-18T06:34:25-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: And yet you expect us to listen to you. :rolleyes: Oh well - just activated this to solve that problem with this ingrate. I don't want to listen to his biased views which are obviously self-serving. This game needs bugs fixed, balance issues worked out. I'd just wait till a beta or something along those lines comes out and then decide whether its better - but at the moment anything is better than the game twisted towards sniper supremacy.[/url]
creator: cokemaster
date: 2004-05-18T07:00:01-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Deathgod given that a majority of people who play this game don't even know these forums exist Thats funny, because there are over 10,000 (yes thats TEN THOUSAND) unique registered Renguard users...and guess where RenGuard was advertised
creator: Blazer
date: 2004-05-18T09:10:45-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Blazer Deathgod given that a majority of people who play this game don't even know these forums exist Thats funny, because there are over 10,000 (yes thats TEN THOUSAND) unique registered Renguard users...and guess where RenGuard was advertised 10,000 users... that's still less than half of the people on the WOL ladder at the moment. Which means a majority do NOT have renguard.... and that's not even counting gamespy users at all. 10,000 may be a lot of people, but that's still a minority. Nice job making Deathgod's point for him, though.
creator: mahkra
date: 2004-05-18T14:53:51-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: That's a good number, I'm impressed. It also doesn't account for the users on GSA, though. I'm sure a good portion of them have Renguard as well, but if we look at these forums there's only about 2800 registered users... that's a fairly large gulf between those who know and those who most likely don't, even if we just account for the Renguard users. You BHS people ought to make a poll here and push-advertise it via Renguard and see what people think, since you have the ability to do so.
creator: Deathgod
date: 2004-05-18T16:02:43-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Basicly I don't see any reason why the Personal Ion Cannon or the rail gun should be less effective to airplanes then a simple sniper rifle. I don't know the precise amount of bullets you need with an Ion cannon or rail gun, but these guns have a limited range, and have to reload after every bullet. My vote goes for a balance change.
creator: Weirdo
date: 2004-05-18T21:25:20-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Having a PIC Sydney or Raveshaw shoot down aircraft is fine, they're intended to be anti-vehicle (and anti-building, and anti-infantry if you're any good). All I think is that any unit with a Sniper/Ramjet Rifle shouldn't do ridiculous damage to helicopters like they do now. Snipers should do virtually no damage, and the Ramjet should do maybe a little damage(to please the people that quote the manual and proclaim that the Ramjet fires jet-powered bullets), but remember that Snipers are anti-infantry. Does getting hit with 5 large-caliber sniper rounds destroy a helicopter in real life? No. It would be barely damaged. Did snipers (Commandos) do lots of damage to light vehicles in C&C? No. Therefore, it should be changed, as it defies all logic AND continuity, as well as being unbalanced. Javaxcx If you are going to do that to snipers to "be similar to C&C", eliminate the engineer's pistol, and nerf the technician's to do virtually no damage. That's also similar to C&C. There's a difference between changing things that are broken and changing things that work the way they are. Just because I want to change one issue doesn't mean I want to change the entire gameplay dynamic structure.
creator: PointlessAmbler
date: 2004-05-18T22:43:07-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: PointlessAmbler There's a difference between changing things that are broken and changing things that work the way they are. This is exactly the point that many of us have been trying to make in these threads. If things were broken, I'd say go ahead and fix them, but snipers vs. aircraft work just fine the way it is right now, so there's no reason to change it.
creator: mahkra
date: 2004-05-19T00:41:50-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: PointlessAmbler Does getting hit with 5 large-caliber sniper rounds destroy a helicopter in real life? No. It would be barely damaged. I'm going to say to you what Aircraftkiller tried to argue with in the thread that he locked, (3 times, now). C&C is not realistic, so it is irrelevant if a sniper rifle in real life would be able to damage an aircraft. In all likelyhood (yes, I'm going off on a tangent), if an extremely high powered sniper rifle were to be fired into the gas tank of a helicopter, it wouldn't be 5 shots to take out, it'd be one. Quote: Did snipers (Commandos) do lots of damage to light vehicles in C&C? No. Did engineers have pistols in C&C? No. You're picking and choosing which concessions to change to replicate the C&C RTS. You're still bastardizing the game if you do this, NOT fixing it. Quote: There's a difference between changing things that are broken and changing things that work the way they are. Just because I want to change one issue doesn't mean I want to change the entire gameplay dynamic structure. Snipers (Ramjets) aren't broken in Renegade, they do exactly what they were intended to do. Damage light armour and destory infantry. And no, Aircraftkiller, YOU saying that it's a bug in the armor.ini file doesn't make it so. I say it's not a bug, and my opinion has just as much value as yours does.
creator: Javaxcx
date: 2004-05-19T01:24:41-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Your opinion isn't based off technical knowlege of the game, contacts with the development team, or having a hand in developing the game. Mine is. I think that makes my opinion JUST A LITTLE BIT more reliable than yours. Realism is irrelevant, it's a C&C game based off another C&C game, therefore snipers should be nerfed so that all they do is kill soldiers. I can see the n00b cannon doing maybe 5 points of damage to vehicles, but that's it.
creator: Aircraftkiller
date: 2004-05-19T02:22:38-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Sure it is: Aircraft have light armour. Snipers damage light armour. Therefore snipers damage aircraft. Pop it into your mod tools, and it says it right there. I hate to break it to you, but that is technical knowledge. You're going on that it's a bug in the system, and I'm telling you it's not. A bug in the system is being able to B2B in islands, not sniper damage. It's fairly easy to spew out some technical jargon and attempt to pass it off as a reason to change something that doesn't need to be changed. Since realism is irrelevant, and the game is based of C&C, refusing to compliment aspects of C&C in this so-called "fixed" version seems a bit stupid, don't you think? After all, you DID say: Quote: I don't get why people play a C&C game and want to turn it into something that isn't C&C gameplay So stop picking and your concessions. I don't know how many more times I need to say this to you for it to sink in. If you're going to fix this game, fix everything, and in that case, and ONLY that case will it be justified for you to change snipers.
creator: Javaxcx
date: 2004-05-19T02:41:40-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Aircraftkiller Your opinion isn't based off technical knowlege of the game, contacts with the development team, or having a hand in developing the game. Mine is. I think that makes my opinion JUST A LITTLE BIT more reliable than yours. Realism is irrelevant, it's a C&C game based off another C&C game, therefore snipers should be nerfed so that all they do is kill soldiers. I can see the n00b cannon doing maybe 5 points of damage to vehicles, but that's it. Knowing the man who created the atomic bomb does not make you an expert in nuclear physics. You also need to quit flipflopping about whether realism is important or not. You seem to throw it out when it suits your needs, and accept it at other times. CONSISTENCY PLZ (2nd time I've said that now...)
creator: Deathgod
date: 2004-05-19T03:39:18-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Having had a hand in developing the game, which you (for some reason) ignore, is the equivilant of knowing a bit more about how the atom bomb was developed and what went into it than your average joe. I'm not flip flopping.
creator: Aircraftkiller
date: 2004-05-19T04:59:39-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: One of the few times I got a chance to play with Devinoch durring the air beta he was asked why snipers damage aircraft like they do. His responce was, "They don't have time to to make the rockets anti air." People wanted the Aircraft imideately which lead to the counter units not being set up and the lame ass system we have now being set up.
creator: Falconxl
date: 2004-05-19T05:08:52-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: I ignore it because it's not really making your opinion any stronger.
creator: Deathgod
date: 2004-05-19T05:51:37-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: So from what I gather, you're arguing for the sake of it, not because you're willing to compromise and see the viewpoint of the others you're arguing with... Which defeats the point of this forum, why bother wasting everyone's time with it?
creator: Aircraftkiller
date: 2004-05-19T05:59:04-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Aircraftkiller Having had a hand in developing the game, which you (for some reason) ignore Maybe if you actually argued points intelligently instead of just throwing insults around and acting aloof all the time, people would listen to you. But you're not going to convince anyone that you actually know what you're talking about when your arguments regularly consist of things like "So you want us to accomadate you because you want to think backwards and be an assclown?" I only ignore that you "had a hand in developing the game" (whatever that means -- for all I know it could mean you fetched coffee for the programmers when they worked late nights) because you throw it around as your default argument when you can't prove your point using logic and reason. If you're really so all-knowing when it comes to Renegade, you should be able to explain WHY things should be the way you want them. Instead, you just say "HEY STFU I WAS THERE I NO BETER THEN U." That's not an argument, it's just a self-gratifying statement about how you think you're so cool. As such, I ignore it. Try using reason instead of just saying "I NO MORE THEN U." People might actually listen then.
creator: mahkra
date: 2004-05-19T06:43:45-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Aircraftkiller So from what I gather, you're arguing for the sake of it, not because you're willing to compromise and see the viewpoint of the others you're arguing with... Which defeats the point of this forum, why bother wasting everyone's time with it? No, but I think that you are definitely arguing for the sake of it. Since these changes are supposedly going to happen anyway, why are you bothering to waste time coming here? You could be out finishing this patch up. If you can't comprehend why you saying "I know better because I helped make some maps" doesn't qualify you to be a judge of game balance, then there is really no point for this discussion to continue as you are beyond reasoning. Do whatever you want, since you're going to anyhow, and go to bed tonight feeling secure in the knowledge that another brick was added to the wall between you and reality.
creator: Deathgod
date: 2004-05-19T06:49:17-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: I have always felt that the aircraft were entirely too vulnerable to snipers. If there are 3-4 snipers in a field in city flying and you come into view even only briefly it is instant death. I consider myself one of the best pilots in the game along side Ack and Falcon and kill many ramjet class snipers with ease but the moment there are a few snipers in the field I die instantly and thats just lame. There goes my 900c Orca and 350c Hotwire. Thats rather expensive in a map that takes quite some time for the harvester to make a full run. I tend to lean toward keeping the game pretty much as is with a slight tweak of the ramjet damage to light armor. Give it the same damage as the Deadeye class sniper to light armor. That would make it much more fair yet still keep the game relatively as is.
creator: Aqualite7
date: 2004-05-19T06:57:44-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Deathgod Aircraftkiller So from what I gather, you're arguing for the sake of it, not because you're willing to compromise and see the viewpoint of the others you're arguing with... Which defeats the point of this forum, why bother wasting everyone's time with it? No, but I think that you are definitely arguing for the sake of it. Since these changes are supposedly going to happen anyway, why are you bothering to waste time coming here? You could be out finishing this patch up. If you can't comprehend why you saying "I know better because I helped make some maps" doesn't qualify you to be a judge of game balance, then there is really no point for this discussion to continue as you are beyond reasoning. Do whatever you want, since you're going to anyhow, and go to bed tonight feeling secure in the knowledge that another brick was added to the wall between you and reality. Oh, it's not just me, if you had read what Falcon wrote you'd notice that Devinoch confirmed exactly what I SAID BEFORE: THE DEV TEAM DID NOT HAVE THE TIME TO BALANCE IT OUT BY ADDING ANTI-AIRCRAFT MISSILES TO ALL UNITS WITH MISSILES. Comprende, that too hard to understand, or you just accepting the status quo because you're afraid of learning something else? I already proved my point, mahkra. It's just that you're too much of a dumbass to understand it, and I definitely don't write "i no more then u" as you can obviously see... So, take your own advice: "you throw it around as your default argument when you can't prove your point using logic and reason."
creator: Aircraftkiller
date: 2004-05-19T07:49:19-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: You give Rave/syd more range, i'll be happy with changes. As it stands, 1 rave/syd would not be able to take out an aircraft unless its a n00b flyer. The guns chew up infantry too quickly for rave/syd to be of any use. Give the rave/syd 50m or so more range. So that it can reach orcas before the oracs reach it.
creator: tanhm07
date: 2004-05-19T08:56:52-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Falconxl One of the few times I got a chance to play with Devinoch durring the air beta he was asked why snipers damage aircraft like they do. His responce was, "They don't have time to to make the rockets anti air." People wanted the Aircraft imideately which lead to the counter units not being set up and the lame ass system we have now being set up. That's an excellent point, and definetly means to attempt these changes. However, only a handful of people on this forum have actually played city flying exp, which didn't go down too well (Remember, missiles on various vehicles and rocket soldiers could home in, snipers did 20% of normal damage of air units). Apart from the rifle soldiers decreased damage against aircraft, I'm still wondering what went wrong. In theory, it was balanced. Perhaps not enough people used anti-air units to keep the aircraft away (remember, these games were around 10 v 10 - 12 v 12 in size), so maybe it's best to have an uber powerful unit to eliminate them since they've got the strength and speed to eliminate every other vehicle with relative ease. If it can be re-released with the rifle soldier damage fixed, then someone with interest in this discussion, if not me, should ask speedy to host it for a while. His server always gets players; why not put this whole argument to the test since there's a level available to test it?
creator: flyingfox
date: 2004-05-19T15:14:40-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: City Flying Exp was made quite a long time ago and was merely an experiment conducted by me with very little time on my hands. It's not an easy thing to balance units out. See why it wasn't added into Renegade, because of time constraints? Try playing on the HT server which forbids n00b cannons through scripting. I play there most of the time now and the balance is superb without them. Aircraft are useful, yet they don't own everything since Raveshaws and PIC Sydneys are the perfect counter units to them.
creator: Aircraftkiller
date: 2004-05-19T15:19:17-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Ok, I'll be there tonight.
creator: flyingfox
date: 2004-05-19T15:24:00-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: flyingfox so maybe it's best to have an uber powerful unit to eliminate them since they've got the strength and speed to eliminate every other vehicle with relative ease. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
creator: tanhm07
date: 2004-05-19T20:51:05-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: I say we just take out the n00bjet and be done with it. Or just weaken it a bit.
creator: The_Chaotic_One
date: 2004-05-19T21:10:22-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: ...?
creator: flyingfox
date: 2004-05-21T23:08:56-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: It took 5 days for you to post a reply? Well if you say you look like an ass then I'm inclined to agree with you. Now I think there are some people here who would like this discussion shifted back on topic. Yesterday I played a game on the No sniper server. Aircraft were not really that much of a threat untill the HON went down. Railgun and PIC were being utilised to their full potential. Now if only I didn't have the problem where the tracers from the Ramjet, Railgun, and PIC don't show up. If I could have seen the tracers I wouln't have accused the SBH(which happened to be ACK) who fired at me last of cheating. Although ACK started complaing about not seeing the tracers later on as I recall too.
creator: Falconxl
date: 2004-05-23T23:20:13-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Is that a glitch, the no tracers thing? That's pretty agrivating. More importantly, is it on the Blackhand Studious to-fix list?
creator: sfr3f
date: 2004-05-24T00:37:31-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: i already posted somethin here and ill post another thing. Any person who flies their aircraft into the field in walls flying and a sniper wipes the floor with their @$$, shouldnt even BUY a aircraft. They should buy a tank and do base attacks the old fashioned way.
creator: snipbravo
date: 2004-06-03T00:59:09-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Look at the difference between these two weapons. The RamJet is HUGE...I could understand it doing a *little* damage to a tank or light armor (not near as much as it does now). Look at the wimpy Black Hand sniper rifle...theres no way that thing should be able to take out a mrls in 2 clips.
creator: Blazer
date: 2004-06-03T01:38:28-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: snipbravo i already posted somethin here and ill post another thing. Any person who flies their aircraft into the field in walls flying and a sniper wipes the floor with their @$$, shouldnt even BUY a aircraft. They should buy a tank and do base attacks the old fashioned way. So when a sniper comes out, which is baically an inevitable, it's stupid to buy a helicopter? So, it's stupid to buy a helicopter. It's poor strategy to purchase a helicopter. Unless a 1 in 50 game comes along where no one knows how to buy a sniper rifle...
creator: SuperFlyingEngi
date: 2004-06-03T02:02:18-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Aircraft killer, I like everything you do, the mods, the maps, etc... The only problem is that when you see a problem, You fix it the way you, and no one else, likes it.
creator: snipbravo
date: 2004-06-11T00:50:32-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: You haven't got any idea of what you're talking about with that last sentence fragment.
creator: Aircraftkiller
date: 2004-06-11T02:16:20-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: I dont mean to make anyone mad, but first off, snipers should remain the same level of effectivity against aircraft. Why? Beacuse it would make all the dedicated snipers like me mad for one, and two, becasue the game designers made it that way for a reason. The pilot sniping part and the critical area part are okay. I like those parts beacause EVERYONE likes it. Not just aircraftkiller. Even if it is undoable, It was a bright idea.
creator: snipbravo
date: 2004-06-14T01:19:41-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Jonathon, don't even dignity that with a response.
creator: Javaxcx
date: 2004-06-14T01:24:28-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: I dont know WHAT youralls problem is. I never asked for a response to ANY of the stuff i posted. Aircraft killer is unwilling to comprmise with others to seek a solution to this light armor sniping part. Its his way or no way. Id like to see u guys try to convince EVERYONE on renforums that snipers should be ineffective against vheicle or aircraft. U wont have any success. gaurenteed. How often do u play renegade anyway? Ive heard from a friend who is almost as reputable as u on renforums. He says that you MADE renalert to rectify this "problem". So WHY do u sit here whinin about a game u dont even PLAY?
creator: snipbravo
date: 2004-06-15T02:08:53-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Dumbass. http://renegade.the-pitts.net/gamestats/playerStats.cfm?stype=totkills&shw=20&wol=1&sdate=%7Bts%20%272004%2D06%2D01%2000%3A00%3A01%27%7D&edate=%7Bts%20%272004%2D06%2D14%2022%3A40%3A00%27%7D 1. JupitersK 2635 109 2. nas680 1561 117 3. scythar 1434 161 4. Falconxl0 1160 85 5. C4Kitty 1102 129 6. a1ph4riu5 1091 125 7. xm571 1047 151 8. TwisTa232 1021 107 9. ocetam 961 68 10. Meleeman0 903 12 2,635 kills in 109 games. 1. JupitersK 24.17 109 24.17 averaged kills per game. 3. JupitersK 6.33 109 6.33 K\D ratio after 109 games. Guess where all that came from? Using n00b cannon Havocs, Sakuras, Black Hand "snipers" and Deadeye. The rest of it was with an Orca, Apache, or APC. I'm making Renegade Alert because I want Red Alert in first person. Snipers in RA didn't damage aircraft while they were on the ground, nor did they damage anything else but soldiers. I know how fucking powerful the n00b cannons are BECAUSE I USE THEM ALMOST EVERY GAME. 109 games this month. Figure it out.
creator: Aircraftkiller
date: 2004-06-15T02:35:17-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: I was thinking about something yesterday while playing City Flying. It's become such a boring map for me because the only units that you see used are Orcas/Apaches, APCs, Havocs/Sakuras and Stealth Tanks. Everything else is pretty ineffective because tanks get chewed up by aircraft hovering above their maximum gun elevation and light armoured vehicles/infantry get cut to pieces by the snipers. Imagine how much more fun City Flying would be if you had Mammoth Tanks and MRLS slugging it out with Light Tanks and Artillery, while Orcas fly overhead and Buggies drive past on the ground. That's what it would be like if snipers did minimal damage to light armour and aircraft had to reload their ammo at the Helipad. The light vehicles would suddenly become usable in all sorts of different ways and you'd see a lot more tanks in the field if they didn't have to worry about aircraft hovering over them indefinitely. You could still use your APCs and Stealth Tanks just the same, but there'd be much more choice of what units to use. The aircraft would take some getting used to, mainly because they wouldn't own all ground vehicles anymore (particularly if you have units with homing missiles), but they'd also be able to fly where they wanted to without hugging the terrain in fear of snipers.
creator: m1a1_abrams
date: 2004-06-15T08:02:55-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: snipbravo I dont know WHAT youralls problem is. You're an incoherent idiot?
creator: Javaxcx
date: 2004-06-15T11:09:44-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: I agree about the positive gameplay differences it "could" make. But remember, it might end up being worsely balanced than it is. I definetly agree that these changes need to be given a go though -- why not? It could be like a whole new Renegade where every unit can be used effectively (including rocket soldiers). But that's what I'm also afraid of.. supposing one unit became too powerful, even though you think there are effective counters to everything. For example, the mammoth tank. I don't think it should be changed at all unless unbalance issues arise concerning them and the other unit changes. I'm wondering how the refueling of orcas/apaches will work. When they run out of ammunition, do they have a long recharge time to force people to go back to helipads which are programmed to refuel the vehicle instantly, while giving them 10 health back a second? That sounds pretty fun.
creator: flyingfox
date: 2004-06-15T19:44:54-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: They don't refuel for fuck's sake, they just rearm them. Refueling is incredibly lame in any game unless it's something like Novalogic's Comanche series.
creator: Aircraftkiller
date: 2004-06-15T19:51:46-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: This may've already been covered, but how much ammo do you propose the respective orca and apache will have? Enough to kill how many enemy vehicles?
creator: spoonyrat
date: 2004-06-15T22:00:41-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: C&C based. Five Orca TOW-2B missiles, something like 100-150 rounds for the Apache's 30mm chain gun. Not enough to destroy any tank, but enough to damage buildings.
creator: Aircraftkiller
date: 2004-06-15T23:35:35-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Aircraftkiller C&C based. Five Orca TOW-2B missiles, something like 100-150 rounds for the Apache's 30mm chain gun. Not enough to destroy any tank, but enough to damage buildings. Yeah, but doesn't Orca actually have 18 Hydra-70s?
creator: Deactivated
date: 2004-06-16T09:18:53-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: How much damage would that do to, say, a Stealth Tank? assuming you hit all your rockets.
creator: spoonyrat
date: 2004-06-16T18:18:18-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: First off, i aint a dumbass. Second off the entire reason u made renalert was out of noobishness, because u wanted to get away from the skillfull snipers who shot u down in the first place. I bet i could own u any day any time even without a sniper. Oh but wait a minute.... U dont even play renegade anymore becasse u are too absorbed in ur non sniping creation THAT NO ONE PLAYS.
creator: snipbravo
date: 2004-06-19T01:54:26-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Im not an incoherent idiot. Thats good ole johnny boy up there.
creator: snipbravo
date: 2004-06-19T01:59:47-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Why do you type like a hick?
creator: xptek_disabled
date: 2004-06-19T02:12:15-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: snipbravo First off, i aint a dumbass. Second off the entire reason u made renalert was out of noobishness, because u wanted to get away from the skillfull snipers who shot u down in the first place. I bet i could own u any day any time even without a sniper. Oh but wait a minute.... U dont even play renegade anymore becasse u are too absorbed in ur non sniping creation THAT NO ONE PLAYS. This is how idiots who play Counter-Strike think. "OMFG USUX BECUZ U WANT TO TAKE AWAY MAH NOOB GUN THT KILS IN WONE HIT!!!!!!1" I think this applies to the Ramjet as much as it does to the AWP: www.somethingawful.com It [AWP in Counter-Strike] has been toned down in recent versions, meaning to kill someone you need to actually point it in their general direction, rather than the general direction of the continent they're standing on. On the off-chance the target doesn't die of sheer terror, you might have to go through the time-consuming process of pulling the trigger, which will inflict about the same level of damage as getting hit in the eye with an anti-tank missile covered with anthrax and gasoline. And regarding your little "NO ONE PALYS RENALRT OMGO OFSTUF MNOOB!!?!": If no one plays, why have the servers been populated EVERY DAY since it came out? There's never been a day where there isn't a game going on.
creator: PointlessAmbler
date: 2004-06-19T03:30:19-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: snipbravo First off, i aint a dumbass. Second off the entire reason u made renalert was out of noobishness WARNING: JUXTAPOSITION
creator: Javaxcx
date: 2004-06-19T11:37:06-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Javaxcx WARNING: JUXTAPOSITION WARNING: BIG WORD DETECTED
creator: U927
date: 2004-06-19T14:06:40-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: while u guys are talking, can i offer u a nice warm cup of STFU
creator: snipbravo
date: 2004-06-20T00:54:44-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Ebaumsworld sucks.
creator: xptek_disabled
date: 2004-06-20T00:58:04-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: snipbravo while u guys are talking, can i offer u a nice warm cup of STFU Good work! You're making prepubescents like yourself look bad! More power to you!
creator: Javaxcx
date: 2004-06-21T19:22:23-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: Oh, of COURSE you have! Your childish, immature attitude couldn't possibly leave the suspicion that you're lying to make yourself sound bigger than you'll ever be!
creator: Javaxcx
date: 2004-06-29T11:06:14-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: vehicles for the most part are utterly useless against copters pretty much the only counter IS snipers.. taking away snipers ability to kill copters would make a copter almost impossible to kill if the pilot knew what he was doing.
creator: Sniper_De7
date: 2004-06-30T16:15:18-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: nha chooper are easy to kill just use pic rail ....ect
creator: jd422032101
date: 2004-06-30T16:26:44-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: But you forget, choppers would be modified also with limited ammunition, to avoid them hovering over the field and killing everything with relative ease.
creator: flyingfox
date: 2004-06-30T16:27:29-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: snipbravo Oh but wait a minute.... U dont even play renegade anymore becasse u are too absorbed in ur non sniping creation THAT NO ONE PLAYS. OK, firstly the Renalert is probably the most populated of the n00bstories servers. I am also working to purchase a renalert server (probably this week or next) Secondly, sniping in renalert > sniping in renegade, by a long, long way... In renalert, if you can't get headshots regularly, you're wasting your time getting a sniper In renegade, it's a common sight in, say, fastc0nn for people to buy a ramjet and shoot tanks the whole fucking game. Failing that, people thinking they're elite because they can bodyshoot basic infantry.
creator: spoonyrat
date: 2004-07-02T16:08:53-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: That's why I made RA have Sniper units with single-shot rifles that only kill with a head shot or two or three body shots.
creator: Aircraftkiller
date: 2004-07-02T17:30:23-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: spoonyrat sniping in renalert > sniping in renegade spoonyrat In renalert...you're wasting your time getting a sniper WARNING: JUXTAPOSITION
creator: Fabian
date: 2004-07-02T18:08:14-00:00

Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
type: item
description: You put them above each other, not side by side.
creator: Aircraftkiller
date: 2004-07-02T18:26:36-00:00